Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves

[9mm]

Good things like the HH nearing its end; while I'll miss having new books, knowing there is a resolution in sight is awesome, I genuinely thought they were going to drag it out much longer

I know it probably won't, but I really hope that the HH ends with Big E, Dorn, and Sangy entering the teleportation chamber; and leave what actually happened on Horus's ship a minor mystery.

[Kris Strife]

I know it probably won't, but I really hope that the HH ends with Big E, Dorn, and Sangy entering the teleportation chamber; and leave what actually happened on Horus's ship a minor mystery.

I'd be okay with this if they hadn't done the whole 'the Emperor never loved the primarchs or saw them as his sons' thing with 8th edition, because the duel on Horus's flagship, as has been canon for decades, makes little sense now and I really need an explanation as to why it happened that way.

[Forum Explorer]

I'd be okay with this if they hadn't done the whole 'the Emperor never loved the primarchs or saw them as his sons' thing with 8th edition, because the duel on Horus's flagship, as has been canon for decades, makes little sense now and I really need an explanation as to why it happened that way.

Wasn't that a...when did Horus Heresy novels start coming out again? It's not apparent immediately, but it comes up pretty quickly all things considered.

[Cheesegear]

Wasn't that a...when did Horus Heresy novels start coming out again? It's not apparent immediately, but it comes up pretty quickly all things considered.

I think 'Emperor is #1 Dad' started in First Heretic (14) and Prospero Burns (15; both 2010). I don't recall anything significant in Legion or Fulgrim saying that the Emperor was a giant douche, and books 1-4 aren't about the Emperor, but about the Fall of Horus Rise of Garro.

[khadgar567]

• So here is a question what if second eye of terror opens other side of the galaxy and some sort of non psyhic power apears( lets say wind of magic ). What happens to current setting?
• Can any one has more info about darkallen( looks like new race to me)?

[Voidhawk]

• So here is a question what if second eye of terror opens other side of the galaxy and some sort of non psyhic power apears( lets say wind of magic ). What happens to current setting?
• Can any one has more info about darkallen( looks like new race to me)?

...What? I'm not certain I understand what you're trying to say (what's a "darkallen"?), but I'll give a shot at answering anyway.

In the history of the setting, 40k has had three Big Evil Powers: Chaos, the Tyranids, and the C'Tan/Necrons. Recently(ish), the writers have depowered both the Tyranids and the C'Tan and attempted to make Chaos the sole Big Bad. Which is slightly disappointing to some of us, but there you go. Personally I always liked the symmetry between the three, where each was the epitome of one facet of the universe taken to extremes:

• Chaos - The Evil of Souls.
• Tyranids - The Evil of Flesh.
• C'Tan - The Evil of Metal.

But it is not inconceivable that in the future the fluff gets changed once again, and non-Chaos bad guys gain further prominence. In which case the C'Tan/Necrons would be the obvious bet for an opposing force. And looking at the Galactic Map:

Spoiler: Current Map

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You can see that opposite the Eye of Terror is the biggest Necron dynasty, the Sautek, along with the Tau. So it's within the realm of possibility that a full-powered C'Tan could return and enslave that entire area of space, and then start building Pylons to keep the warp stable. The C'Tan in question would probably be either the Deceiver or maybe the Outsider if you want a full-on Elder Evil in charge.

However, I do want to stress that everything I just said is nothing more than Fanfic extrapolated from old (but not entirely overwritten) fluff.

EDIT: If you want want to read completely ridiculous fanfic about everything in the 40k galaxy going completely nuts and all the plots coming to a head at once, I recommend "The Shape of the Nightmare to Come". It's a retrospective written by an Inquisitor in the year 50k, about the ten-thousand year long death of the galaxy. It starts with the Tyranids and the Orks fusing into one super-race, and then gets worse.

[khadgar567]

about darkallen i just found name on warhammer 40k wiki read the article got confused and decide to ask you inquisitors any thing you know about it. the question about wind of magic returning is just hypothetical scenario of how balance changes in 40k galaxy( is there any info about separate galaxy humans colonize).
sorry i checked my history it was fannon link so wrong xenos

[Voidhawk]

the question about wind of magic returning is just hypothetical scenario of how balance changes in 40k galaxy( is there any info about separate galaxy humans colonize).

In 40k, there are no "Winds of Magic". That's solely a Warhammer Fantasy thing. All magic is either done through using the Warp in some manner, or is Sufficiently Advanced Technology. Often there is overlap between the two categories, either because people aren't sure which exactly is doing it (see Machine Spirits) or because said technology uses the Warp in some way (see much high-end Craftworld Eldar stuff like D-Cannons).

As for other galaxies, humans have certainly never gone there. Fluff on the matter was once "literally everything outside our galaxy is just roving Tyranid Hive Fleets" but has returned to "no-one knows, or really cares, we have enough problems in this one".

[LansXero]

In 40k, there are no "Winds of Magic".

Weren't the "Winds of Magic" just warp currents filtering into the world through the polar warp gates?

[khadgar567]

looks like fluff is in so much minced that if games workshop want they can introduce lets say Confederacy of Gaia were long lost human stellar empire drooping back to Terra to check if its still standing and end up forcing extrerininatus of few planet just for nothing due sheer fear of invasion.

[Wraith]

Weren't the "Winds of Magic" just warp currents filtering into the world through the polar warp gates?

Originally, yes - the Old World was a small sample of the 40k races trapped on some microcosm planet deep in the Eye of Terror, Orcs were just Feral Orks who had lost all of their Meks, Magic was just the Warp being twisted into 'colours' by the polar gates, and Sigmar was one of the lost Primarchs.

That was all quashed around about the even of 5th/6th Edition of Warhammer Fantasy, however. Despite some lingering references in old books, the new ones were adamant that it was an entirely different setting.

looks like fluff is in so much minced that if games workshop want they can introduce lets say Confederacy of Gaia were long lost human stellar empire drooping back to Terra to check if its still standing and end up forcing extrerininatus of few planet just for nothing due sheer fear of invasion.

Not really. Though large areas of the galaxy are mysterious and unexplored, enough of it is known that a new race that is large and powerful enough to threaten the Imperium and yet be unknown to all of the other races is physically impossible.

A new race could come from OUTSIDE of the galaxy, perhaps, but that is stealing plot from the Tyranids and seems redundant.

[LansXero]

looks like fluff is in so much minced that if games workshop want they can introduce lets say Confederacy of Gaia were long lost human stellar empire drooping back to Terra to check if its still standing and end up forcing extrerininatus of few planet just for nothing due sheer fear of invasion.

Not really, no; its quite cohesive and self-consistent, bar some outliers and exceptions.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

That'd make Sigmar easily the worst Primarch, couldn't do more than one measly country on his planet!

[Drasius]

That'd make Sigmar easily the worst Primarch, couldn't do more than one measly country on his planet!

Still better than Angron.

[Forum Explorer]

I think 'Emperor is #1 Dad' started in First Heretic (14) and Prospero Burns (15; both 2010). I don't recall anything significant in Legion or Fulgrim saying that the Emperor was a giant douche, and books 1-4 aren't about the Emperor, but about the Fall of Horus Rise of Garro.

I think there are a few hints about it in retrospect in the first 4, but yeah, it's certainly not outright stated til later. But I can't remember what edition the First Heretic came out in. Was that still 6th, or was that 7th by then?

[Cikomyr]

That'd make Sigmar easily the worst Primarch, couldn't do more than one measly country on his planet!

I have my personal theory that somewhat inverts everything.

Sigmar's World was basically the padlock that held the Eye of Terror to its reduced size which explains its constant attack by the forces of Chaos. When it got destroyed, Cadia fell.

[Blackhawk748]

I have my personal theory that somewhat inverts everything.

Sigmar's World was basically the padlock that held the Eye of Terror to its reduced size which explains its constant attack by the forces of Chaos. When it got destroyed, Cadia fell.

That would be the Pylons according to the new fluff, so it was the Necrons.

[Cheesegear]

I think there are a few hints about it in retrospect in the first 4...

Basically, it's been fluff since day dot.
- Dad didn't like that Lorgar took too long and said religion was dumb.
- Dad literally ripped Angron from his home planet, against Angron's will. Heavily implying that without him, a lot of Angron's friends, died.
- Magnus. The novels also bring up that Dad's intent was to put Magnus in The Golden Throne, rather than Himself. What a douche. But Magnus has always been treated badly, is the point. The novels only expanded it.
- Dorn spends his entire career trying to get Dad to love - and/or be proud of - him. He fails.
- Dad shows blatant favoritism towards Sanguinius, who is both a Psyker and a Mutant. Making the other 17 Brothers extremely confused. (I don't even know if the novels have even brought this up. Guilliman doesn't seem to mind Sanguinius being basically the opposite of what Dad actually wants).
- Peterabo was told to genocide his home planet (Curze did it, too. But he wanted to).

It was all there from the start 15-20 years ago.
The novels have only expanded it.

[Drasius]

- Magnus. The novels also bring up that Dad's intent was to put Magnus in The Golden Throne, rather than Himself. What a douche. But Magnus has always been treated badly, is the point. The novels only expanded it.

To be fair, Magnus deserves what he gets about half the time.

[LansXero]

To be fair, Magnus deserves what he gets about half the time.

Why? I mean, he did try to sway Horus, and while his warning was a monumental act of hubris (couldn't he had channeled the same amount of effort into clearing a safe passage through the warp for a courier ship?) it was well intentioned. That he was deluding himself the whole time is just another consequence of the Emperor's lack of comunication skills; when you read about the Thousand Sons fighting, you see how unstoppable Humanity could be, if they finally awakened their psychic potential in a controlled, focused way.

[Drasius]

Why? I mean, he did try to sway Horus, and while his warning was a monumental act of hubris (couldn't he had channeled the same amount of effort into clearing a safe passage through the warp for a courier ship?) it was well intentioned. That he was deluding himself the whole time is just another consequence of the Emperor's lack of comunication skills; when you read about the Thousand Sons fighting, you see how unstoppable Humanity could be, if they finally awakened their psychic potential in a controlled, focused way.

Because Magnus isn't really a person or even a primarch. That golden body of light is actually his ego, that's what Magnus actually is - the embodiment of hubris.

- He thinks he knows how to get the better of a deal with a warp entity daemon and damns himself for knowledge.
- He then thinks he can take the easy route and save his legion by making a further bargain with a being from the great ocean daemon and dooms his entire legion.
- He thinks he can show the universe that psychers aren't as bad as they think and ends up demonstrating why everyone should be afraid of them.
- He ignores the advice of the emperor about using his powers and gets suckered into damning himself even further into being Tzeentch's plaything.
- He ignores the advice of his brothers about not being a show-off and an arrogant turd
- He ignores the emperor's warning on Nikea and gets his legion in even more trouble.
- He starts to dabble in sorcery and sacrifice, abandoning one of the few bits of moral high ground he had left
- He disregards the emperors edict again and tries to warn the emperor directly, not only sealing his fate as a traitor, but dooming his world, his legion and wrecking up the golden throne.
- He sides against his own legion that he fought so hard to save, only to then screw up his noble sacrifice by deciding that maybe he should have done something after all.
- He abandons his legion to their own devices when they need him most after getting punted out of the Imperium while they start to suffer the effects of the flesh change again to play scryer to see what everyone else is up to just so he doesn't look like even more of an idiot than he already does.

Now, Maggie gets a raw deal on a bunch of other stuff, but he's also responsible for a large portion of the crap that happens to him as well. I will say that one of the changes to the lore that irks me the most is that now Magnus doesn't even tell Big E that Horus is a scumbag traitor at all. He just turns up, realises how bad he just ****ed up and then goes home. At least previously the sacrifice he made was pointless because the Emperor refused to believe him (which is a nice duality of bad guy with good publicity [Horus] and good guy with bad publicity [Magnus]), now it's pointless because Magnus is a 'tard.

[Eldan]

That'd make Sigmar easily the worst Primarch, couldn't do more than one measly country on his planet!

To be fair, did other Primarchs land on worlds that had infestations from every major antagonist of the Empire, plus a few that aren't really known elsewhere, like undead?

[Wraith]

Still better than Angron.

And Mortarion, who started a rebellion but had to have Daddy finish it for him. And, I guess, Alpharius who didn't even make it as far as a planet.

[LansXero]

And Mortarion, who started a rebellion but had to have Daddy finish it for him. And, I guess, Alpharius who didn't even make it as far as a planet.

Actually, has it been revealed where did the twins land?

[LeSwordfish]

And Mortarion, who started a rebellion but had to have Daddy finish it for him. And, I guess, Alpharius who didn't even make it as far as a planet.

Oh, I would definitely put Mortarion's story down as another bad parenting one. Mortarion works his entire adult life to achieve a goal, fails, and the emperor steps over him, does it for him, and says "alright, get in the car, we're done here." When the story repeats (mortarion struck down, unable to kill his father the tyrant, his legendary constitution brought to nothing) and instead of doing the job for him without asking, Nurgle offers him the power to do it himself... well, it's little wonder Mortarion accepts, isn't it?

[Wraith]

Actually, has it been revealed where did the twins land?

Not yet. The first we know of Alpharius, he/they are at the head of a fleet of one- and two-man fighterships who try to commit piracy against the Luna Wolves. It goes surprisingly well, under the circumstances, but if their homeworld is ever revealed then it was only to Horus, who has not spoken of it publicly.

Oh, I would definitely put Mortarion's story down as another bad parenting one.

I don't think that there's any argument that ALL of the Primarchs can blame the vast majority of their problems on their relationship with their father. I wouldn't necessarily say that the Traitors all had better reasons than some of the Loyalists; compare Fulgrim's adoration and Alpharius' apparent apathy to Vulkan's and Russ' humiliations.

[LansXero]

Just finished reading The Crimson King:

Spoiler: Crimson King

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- Those bits, with Magnus and how he got restored at the end... does that mean the Emperor can be remade like that?
- Is the stuff with the Book of Magnus getting altered foreshadowing for something specific, or just general misterious stuff?
- Ahriman's fall still feels forced. As does Magnus attacking Terra 'because the good part of his soul got cut off'. But I guess any explanation was going to feel forced, with how sympathetic they've been making the Thousand Sons.
- If killing loyalists because of a command from the Emperor (through Malcador) gets you killed, shouldnt the wolves kill themselves? They killed someone who is a confirmed loyalist and agent of the Siglite.... for doing the same thing they just did x__x
- Was it a generic lord of change, or does that name pop up in some codex / later story?

[LeSwordfish]

When was the Officio Assassinorum founded? Did they have Vindicares etc in the Heresy era?

[LansXero]

When was the Officio Assassinorum founded? Did they have Vindicares etc in the Heresy era?

One of the Heresy novels is about a team from different temples going for Horus, so yeah.

[Destro_Yersul]

It was also a... Callidus assassin, I think, that killed Konrad Curze. They were around.