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2017-10-19, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
That's the one.
WD 247 (UK), page 83. That's 2 months after new Land Raider kit was produced in one the most massive launches I've seen them do for something. It is also recapped in a Sapce Marine codex from 2008.
Further the 2 Spesh Mahrines books fomr 2004-2005 I checked, BT and generic, both had a Power of the Machine Spirit rule allowing the vehicle to move forwards if the crew was Stunned. It also could direct fire of the wapons if needed, at BS2. So it's not even helping the crew at this point. Makes it 4th edition?
So there. I do not make stuff up.Last edited by snowblizz; 2017-10-19 at 11:32 AM.
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2017-10-19, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
On a funnier note, a very old sidebar in the Compendium read something like this:
First thou shalt approach the engine, and thou shalt make obeisance.
Then thou shalt anoint upon it the holy symbol with sacred oil.
If the rune be good, and deemed pleasing, the lights shall turn green. If they be red, restrike the rune.
Then thou canst press the large button marked 'on'.
It might still be current, maybe even in print somewhere.
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2017-10-19, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
An absolute s***-ton of short stories for White Dwarf, anthologies and novellas mostly. Whatever you think of his obsession with the Salamanders, the man knows how to crunch hard for a deadline, and how to churn out a story on demand.
Not that any of the Black Library authors are lazy, of course, but like you said before; whatever happened to Dan Abnett? And as much as we adore ADB, he still rarely does more for GW than about a book per year. Kyme's also been with the company since 2003, which is longer than ADB, Robbie Macniven and David Annandale combined - perhaps he's a dyed-in-the-wool company man that everyone goes to for contact info and stuff?Last edited by Wraith; 2017-10-19 at 12:31 PM.
~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation
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2017-10-19, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
Just 'cause he churns 'em out, doesn't mean they're any good. You may as well say he's Danielle Steele...Churns out trash, but churns out loads of it, and somehow that's to be lauded.
...And now that I've said it...Nick Kyme is Danielle Steele, now.
...I was about to go 'Nuh uh'. But I checked, first. Just to be sure.
Master of Mankind actually came out last year and I was just really slow to read it. At least that explains how Wraight was able to pick his brain.
Kyme's also been with the company since 2003, which is longer than ADB, Robbie Macniven and David Annandale combined - perhaps he's a dyed-in-the-wool company man that everyone goes to for contact info and stuff?
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2017-10-19, 02:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
Writing something bad, that you're not really all that into, to a deadline is a bonafide skill in it's own right. It's EASY* to write stuff like Betrayer, when your characters speak for themselves and the interactions flow organically from one scene to the next; it's much, much harder when you have to slog your way through the grey-tinted naval-gazing that is the second act of Fifteen Hours, or the first ~250 pages of Descent of Angels.
To paraphrase the words of Terry Pratchett: "[Working as a journalist], with three 'phones ringing in one ear and a distraught editor screaming in the other, you very quickly learn how to get over 'writer's block' if you intend to continue being able to eat."
* Writing is not in any way at all 'easy', but all things comparatively....
...I was about to go 'Nuh uh'. But I checked, first. Just to be sure.
Kyme is the boss-man. He's the editor-in-chief...Although somehow that prevents him from editing his own work. Not all editors are writers.~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation
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2017-10-19, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
I know he does comics,- Avatar by LCP -
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2017-10-19, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
Maybe that explains why his stuff is so bad? He's got the same amount of quality as the other authors (I know he can do a decent job because as much as I bag him, Red-Marked was pretty good), but it's split over two or three times as many books and the remainder is padded out with rubbish so they average out to terrible? Kinda like how David Annandale either does really good (Death of Antagonis, Iron Corpses) or brain bleachingly awful (Damnation of Pythos which is, for my money, the worst book of the HH series by a long way), but he concentrate either one into 1 book instead of spreading it around.
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2017-10-20, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
One question (I assume that someone who has the codex space marines might be able to answer).
As I read Dark Imperium I realized that the primaris space marines are made out of the geneseed material from the primarchs which I think was pretty nice as a way to tie them to the legions but I felt a bit sad that this appears to leave out the possible particularities of the successor chapters (for example while the novamarines geneseed might not be too different from ultramarines geneseed at this point there could be strong difference between white scars and mantis warriors).
I also think that this could have been a good opportunity to give a chance to resurrect some old chapters (oh the astral knights are no more, but while they still were I made a thousand primaris astral knight derp derp how useful it would be now).
I guess the question is, are successor chapters or chapters with unknown founder getting proper primaris? I.e. Cawl created primaris or are they getting the knowledge to make primaris and being told hey, feel free to make them?Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)
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2017-10-20, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
Crimson Fists are explicitly known to have Primaris Marines. The GW studio themselves keep painting Black Templars. Every Chapter in the Codex has Primaris Marines, as they're used as the specific example in all the paint schemes. But you do bring up one good point; If you don't know who your Primarch is, you wouldn't get Primaris Marines. Or, if you did, you would now know who your Primarch was, because Cawl would have to know... Unless he's deliberately inserting Primaris Marines into Chapters with the improper gene-seed, in order to slowly, but surely, replace Chapters he doesn't like.
So far, the rule of thumb has been 'Everyone has Primaris Marines, if they want them.'
The current problems are the Chapters that don't want Primaris Marines (because they're missing 10K years worth of history), but got them anyway. Cawl essentially gave all the Chapters Marines with the mindset of a Heresy-era Imperial Fist (i.e; slightly less crazy than a current Black Templar), and not all Chapters have taken well to that.
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2017-10-20, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
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2017-10-20, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
Also let's be honest here, Cawl probably has a cache of traitor legion gene-seed, if he's been around since before the Heresy. So even people like the Minotaurs, who are World Eater descendants, probably can at least *get* Primarises, if they ask nicely.
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2017-10-20, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
We know for a fact he has Traitor Legion gene-seed, because he proposed making new Primaris chapters out of it only to be forbidden by Guilliman.
"Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein
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2017-10-20, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
You're going to need a source for that one.
GW has their cake and eats it too. Chapters don't know who their Primarch is, but Gene Tithe is a thing, and those gene-seeds get tested for purity, etc. Purity? Against what? How would you know what you're looking at, unless you had a standard to test against?
...The most logical answer is, that if a Chapter who doesn't know who their Primarch is, gets Primaris Marines...Then they know, now.
One of the implications was that Cawl may have done it anyway.
'Cawl did nothing wrong.'
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2017-10-20, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
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2017-10-20, 09:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
It used to be suspected, when the Minotaurs wore yellow armour with red hazard stripes on their arms and legs, that they were descended from World Eaters. Since the retelling of the story regarding the Badab War their history has changed dramatically; some folks have speculated that, if the bronze-armoured Minotaurs have a single line of descent, it might be Iron Warriors.
Personally, given their bizarre amount of resources and ties to non-Astartes organisations, I'd believe that they're more likely to be chimeric, but I have no proof of that beyond circumstantial.
Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin
The White Scars and Dark Angels are more viable than the Imperial Fists, I believe. Neither of those Chapters have any defunct or defective organs, as the 'Fists do in their Betcher's Gland and Sus-an Membrane.
Then again, that might just be wishful thinking; to have half of the Imperium's Primaris Marines be Ultramarines-descended and the other half being Dark Angels would be exactly the sort of hilarious irony to mess up Guilliman's plans for taking over and he's thwarted by the return of the Lion..... again.~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation
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2017-10-20, 10:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
NOPE. While the Imperial Fists' might have non-working parts, they're very stable. You know the glands don't work. Standard Genetic Templates and whatnot. Imperial Fists' gene-seed doesn't further mutate in a Successor (not normally). The White Scars' gene-seed has problems with aggression, which is further ruined in the Mantis Warriors. The Raven Guard phenotype keeps changing seemingly everytime it gets put into a new Chapter, and they very rarely can get the low-light vision to replicate again.
Imperial Fists Sus-An Membrane and Betcher's Gland never work. Meanwhile, Black Dragons (Salamanders) spit flammable liquid instead of poison because their Betcher's Gland has mutated beyond recognition.
Tier 1 Gene-Seeds; Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Imperial Fists
Tier 2; White Scars, Raven Guard, Iron Hands
Tier 3; Blood Angels (50% stable), Space Wolves (25%), Salamanders (10%).
Source; Deathwatch RPGs (by John French, who is legit).
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2017-10-20, 11:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
But in the dark imperium novel there is an instance of a primaris from the line of guilliman who has been dressed as an ultramarine with the file numbers crossed who is getting sent to a successor chapter (i.e. parent chapter can go successor). And the primaris fighting in guilliman's crusade each is color coded after one of the legiones (parent chapters, i.e. no successor).
It is also clear that primaris from guillimans crusade are assigned to chapters (by guilliman, who wrote the codex and should have been well aware of chapters not legions)
So while it is posible that Claw made primaris Blood Ravens out of their tithe my question is, is this the case anywhere in the fluff?
And the followup question what if Cawl had created primaris of chapters that eventually went bad or disappeared? Are those primaris killed? Sent to the deathwatch all in black?
Cawl is aware of the war of the beast, although he was busy. As far as I have read guilliman hasnt reacted to the whole imperial fist debacle so he might not know that yet. But the new primaris imperial fists might be very different from the chapter imperial fist space marines. The space wolves havent had a debacle but the change is there too. Even if Cawl avoided the issue of successor chapters by only taking geneseed from the parent chapters (despite we knowing, based in the codex color schemes, that there are mentor legion primaris, for example) there is still going to be conflict in the chapters that get the primaris.Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)
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2017-10-21, 01:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-10-21, 01:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
...There are no (official) Ultima Founding Chapters based on Salamanders or Iron Hands... Both Istvaan Chapters. Although both Salamanders and Iron Hands now have Primaris Marines (and rumour says that Iron Hands aren't happy about that. But I can't find an actual source)
The Salamanders have never had any confirmed Successors. Even Black Dragons deny it. We only know they are 'cause we're the audience.
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2017-10-21, 05:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
One of the implications was that Cawl may have done it anyway.
'Cawl did nothing wrong.'
Dont really know why obvious truths like that need to be repeated so often.
The White Scars and Dark Angels are more viable than the Imperial Fists, I believe. Neither of those Chapters have any defunct or defective organs, as the 'Fists do in their Betcher's Gland and Sus-an Membrane.
Then again, that might just be wishful thinking; to have half of the Imperium's Primaris Marines be Ultramarines-descended and the other half being Dark Angels would be exactly the sort of hilarious irony to mess up Guilliman's plans for taking over and he's thwarted by the return of the Lion..... again.
Cant see why it would foil Guilliman though. Whats important is not who those Primaris Marines are descended from, but who they are loyal to.
Side note.
Primarch Bro-trip, starring Vulcan and Corvusthnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2017-10-21, 07:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-10-23, 05:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
So this one is about a lady, by a lady.
I haven't seen a female Black Library author...Ever.
Someone read it and get back to me.
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2017-10-23, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
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2017-10-23, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-10-23, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
Same as with Eye of Night, there's a part of me that hopes, that that isn't the case, and there's an Act II twist that turns the story around. But I wont know that, unless I read it...Except if there isn't a twist, if the story is exactly what it says on the tin...Then I don't need to read it. And that makes me feel bad, because GW is trying to add more females to the setting, and I even said last week - or the week before or whenever I said it - that a big step towards that is hiring female writers.
So...GW did exactly that. Female character by a female author. Holy crap. Never thought I would see the day! ...Except it doesn't look like a story I want to read, it just looks like more of the same.
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2017-10-23, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
Minor twist revealed at the end, didn't seem a big deal to me. Only took twenty minutes to read, though, so no loss. Decent enough, not much to complain about. Leaves some opening for more stories.
It could have just as easily been a male Commissar, to be honest. A Commissar's a Commissar, not going to change much by being a woman.Last edited by bluntpencil; 2017-10-23 at 10:58 AM.
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2017-10-23, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2017-10-23 at 01:54 PM.
"that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
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2017-10-23, 03:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
Hmm, I randomly came into this thread, and decided to ask if my idea for a Space Marine chapter was bad*. They would be called the Broken Fangs, their colors are (Black and Blue) and they are a successor of the Space Wolves. They are overall a weak chapter with difficulties in recruitment but through rigid discipline they have been capable of surviving. There chapter was founded as part of an experiment trying to fix the Space Wolves geneseed or recreate the Chalice thingy. It could have gone worse. The Broken Fangs transformation is in some ways more stable, they do not devolve into wolfen, but things still regularly go wrong. They get their name from their most common affliction, their fangs will grow out of control requiring corrective measures. Oftentimes the only option is surgical removal of the lower jaw and installation of an augmentative replacement. Culturally, they are influenced by both their Space Wolves for-bearers and the Iron Hands. They rely heavily on war machines. They have close ties to the Mechanicus.
* My other idea I have posted wasn't super well received, although I think only one part was actually objectionable I think. (They were several millennia ago somewhat above Codex standard 1000. Then they got mostly slaughtered, had their planet nuked and sent into exile. They came back eventually and reclaimed their useless planet. Their new recruits are drawn from pilgrim ships that pass through their system on the way to Terra, an unusual interpretation of a general right they secured to collect from commerce going through their system. This, will probably get them wiped again.)Last edited by Grytorm; 2017-10-23 at 03:18 PM.
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2017-10-23, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves
You should be aware that there's only been 2 known Space Wolves successors; the Wolf Brothers had their genes run out of control, and by the fluff no other successor chapters were created until the all-Primaris Wolfspear. Obviously there's no reason why you can't make yours an exception to this, but expect others to be all "there are no Space Wolf successors" at you.
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2017-10-23, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves