OOTS #1101 - The Discussion Thread

[PH7]

Aaaah...nuts.

[Sans.]

... Crap. Gfdi.

[Gift Jeraff]

Nice little touch: the corpses from panel 6 onward have faded, unnatural hair colors (for non-elves) and greyish skin.

[The MunchKING]

It is, but (a) We don't know what level it is and (b) it may be that, now that he researched it, that Hel can grant it to his lackeys.

If all the spell does is speed up the process (and needs both a vampire and a victim to function) we could even argue for it being 1st/2nd level.

It HAS to be second level or lower if we are going with the rules. As it has been less than a fortnight since Roy was stabbed with his own sword. (especially as V had been calling him out on exaggerating earlier in the strip so that one must have been close enough to accurate if V gave him a pass on it.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It is, but (a) We don't know what level it is and (b) it may be that, now that he researched it, that Hel can grant it to his lackeys.

If all the spell does is speed up the process (and needs both a vampire and a victim to function) we could even argue for it being 1st/2nd level.

I assumed (b) to be the case, regardless. Is there a usual level range between a spell and its mass version? I.e. if the single target is level 3, would the mass version be, say, 5? And are there rules that make developing mass versions of existing spells easier?

GW

[Chei]

Good point, my mistake. If he were to be destroyed, does his Vampire soul go to Hel? Or is it just destroyed?

But, yeah, he can't have meant that, since even if so, Durkon Classic's soul would be freed to go to Valhalla in that case.

I think vampire spirits are destroyed. They aren't souls, I think. If undead spirits persisted after death, as souls do, it would be possible to Resurrect them.

It is comforting to know that Durkon earned entry into Valhalla, but it actually raises a question for me:

If a dwarf dies with honor, gets resurrected, and then dies without honor, what happens to the soul then? Hel?

[Keltest]

Well. That sucks.

I'm not sorry.

[Shining Wrath]

Well. That sucks.

I'm not sorry.

Vampires have studied with Professor Higgins; the vein they drain flows mainly to the brain.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It HAS to be second level or lower if we are going with the rules.

Those seem to be rules for developing a spell de novo. This is more like learning an existing spell from a scroll. We know from when Durkon developed the mass protection spell that he did it in a day, with help from existing magic tomes and a mentor.

That said, from what I gather of your link, the rules ain't that detailed, are they?

I think vampire spirits are destroyed. They aren't souls, I think. If undead spirits persisted after death, as souls do, it would be possible to Resurrect them.

I don't think the spirit is destroyed as such, but I'd imagine that it'd get re-merged with the negative energy plane, and it'd lose any individuality it might have gained while being a vampire.

If a dwarf dies with honor, gets resurrected, and then dies without honor, what happens to the soul then? Hel?

Yep, which would make you think most would not allow themselves to be resurrected once they are past Hel's clutches. But I'd speculate that acting honorable is ingrained enough they'd still come back if resurrected. Even in death, they might be too honorable NOT to heed the call.

GW

[Prendre]

Oh jeez. I audibly yelped a little reading this at work. Well done.

[Yendor]

Let's see: 13 vampires ahead of them, three lurking behind them they passed in panel 7, two more in panel 5, and eight from the previous strip, most of them passed in panels 1-3.

I make it at least 26 vampires.

[Basement Cat]

For the very first time in this Epic story: My blood ran cold---and then something showed up to make matters worse.

[Gwynfrid]

I didn't see that one coming. Very nicely done

[Lathund]

SWEET cliffhanger. I hope the next update comes fast.

[elros]

Once again, Haley makes her spot [plot device] roll. When you consider that she was the one who recognized that Shojo was faking senility, and that none of the undead that Redcloak created were actually Xykon, she must have 20 ranks in that skill!

[arrowed]

Considering Durkon and lackeys were able to fight off the living versions fairly trivially, or so it seemed, will the undead versions be that much of a problem? Especially since it was clerics vs. undead.

Also... Sunburst?

[Bluepaw]

What a splash panel! Those EYES!!

[alwaysbebatman]

@GW: Interesting point. Accept resurrection is a big risk for a dwarf.

[The Pilgrim]

God damn. I completely bought that Durkon* didn't have that spell without the staff.

Excellent fake out.

Who called this? They get all the cookies.

I did as soon as I read Roy saying there would be no more vampires and let's deal with the corpses later. I mean, come on! those words are prime "famous last words" material in an undead-themed setting.

Didn't make the strip any less awesome to me, though. I love how the Giant can play the tropes straight and square in such a masterful way.

[Gift Jeraff]

Considering Durkon and lackeys were able to fight off the living versions fairly trivially, or so it seemed, will the undead versions be that much of a problem? Especially since it was clerics vs. undead.

Also... Sunburst?

Getting V to waste Sunburst spells may be precisely what Undead Durkon wants.

[Friv]

It is, but (a) We don't know what level it is and (b) it may be that, now that he researched it, that Hel can grant it to his lackeys.

If all the spell does is speed up the process (and needs both a vampire and a victim to function) we could even argue for it being 1st/2nd level.

Yeah, my assumption would be that Durkula taught the spell to his other cleric minions, in order to get enough vampires going for the ambush. That would leave enough spells free for the murder spree.

[Windscion]

Considering Durkon and lackeys were able to fight off the living versions fairly trivially, or so it seemed, will the undead versions be that much of a problem? Especially since it was clerics vs. undead.

Bolster undead is a thing. So, not quite so favorable toward the clerics. Most of whom had not chosen their spell slots with combat in view.

[Chei]

I assumed (b) to be the case, regardless. Is there a usual level range between a spell and its mass version? I.e. if the single target is level 3, would the mass version be, say, 5? And are there rules that make developing mass versions of existing spells easier?

GW

It seems to be 4 level difference, with some exceptions. The stat-buffing spells, like Cat's Grace, jump from 2 to 6. Hold Person (Arcane) jumps from 3 to 7. Harm and Heal jump from 6 to 9, but it's possible they would go higher if there were 10th-level spells.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Once again, Haley makes her spot [plot device] roll. When you consider that she was the one who recognized that Shojo was faking senility, and that none of the undead that Redcloak created were actually Xykon, she must have 20 ranks in that skill!

The skill is called Sense Motive, and Hunch is a DC 20, so I'm thinking she probably does have quite a few points invested in it. She specializes in figuring out what the other side is planning, so it should come as no surprise she can do this - no need to suggest she's reading the author's notes through the fourth wall.

GW

[Grey Watcher]

That's... that's bad.

Quick, Turn Unde-, oh, right, we don't have our Cleric....

[Giscard76]

I love how Belkar is still tring to figure out whats going on but Mr. Scruffy has already figured it out! (at lease thats how I interprate thier facial expresions)

[Kantaki]

That... is less than ideal.

Also, those vampires waited for the perfect moment to reveal themselves.
The first rule of undead hunting. Never assume a corpse is just a corpse. Especially if there's more than one.

This was seriously unexpected. I didn't even consider for a moment Durkula could have learned that spell.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Yeah, my assumption would be that Durkula taught the spell to his other cleric minions, in order to get enough vampires going for the ambush. That would leave enough spells free for the murder spree.

That would take a day, which he hasn't really had. But he doesn't need to: it makes sense that once a priest has taught their deity a new way to use divine energy, said deity can immediately grant it to all their other priests.

It seems to be 4 level difference, with some exceptions. The stat-buffing spells, like Cat's Grace, jump from 2 to 6. Hold Person (Arcane) jumps from 3 to 7. Harm and Heal jump from 6 to 9, but it's possible they would go higher if there were 10th-level spells.

Thanks. Very much appreciated. I'm having little luck figuring this out on my own. I think I'll just use level +3 as a rule of thumb, but if it really would take at least 4 weeks, that doesn't really jive with the time Greg has had.

So it does seem that this must be a low-level spell spam.

Grey Wolf

[alwaysbebatman]

Yeah, plot devices are Elan's bag, Haley specializes in deception: both doing it and detecting it.

That is an excellent record of seeing through opposition scams, though.

[Chei]

Getting V to waste Sunburst spells may be precisely what Undead Durkon wants.

Sunburst spell, in the worst case. V prepared two Mind Blank spells, making it extremely likely that Sunburst is in their bonus slot as an evocation specialist.