Reading Heir to the Empire

[Mechalich]

Spoiler: For book 3, and further than OP has read

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I think the reveal of what Thrawn's source of information has to be, makes for one of the funnier moments, especially given how it works. It is probably a neat idea, with a simple problem: It records everything, so Thrawn has to spend a considerable amount of time sorting through the reports to find gems hidden in the information that he can use. So, the source ends up with just huge amounts of information.

I mean, it works to frighten you, but hearing the various bits that it picked up according to Ghent, it appears to be the galaxy's most ADHD Spy. But, no, it works differently. It still comes across as being really ADHD though. I get the solution, which is nice, but it does end up with a center amount of silliness, especially since the Emperor apparently used it himself. How much junk got picked up that the Emperor had to discard? I think seeing either Emperor or Thrawn reading through the reports and picking out what was of value would make for a good story.

As for the name, did it have any relation to the character from Black Panther? Was it T'Challa trees or was it something similar and I am confusing it?

Spoiler

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Presumably both the Emperor and Thrawn had networking droids capable of sorting through the information and discarding a lot of the highly irrelevant material/background noise. Working from a perspective where you know what the source is, where its located, and how it works, you could do that with a lot of accuracy. There would still be a great deal of junk, but the amount a human level analyst had to sort through would be significantly reduced (and if you're Palpatine, you only focus on whatever the Force tells you is important - which is imperfect at times, but speeds the process up normally).

There's also the part where, if you're Palpatine, you don't really need to have a high degree of accuracy when it comes to accusing people of sedition, treason, or any other crime against the state, since you're a powerful tyrant who can order the deaths of people on a whim. Thrawn almost certainly got a lot less out of the same resource given the lack of tyrannical galaxy-spanning authority and a massive Imperial Intelligence apparatus to follow up leads.

Indeed, it really hammers home that you can't easily be sure what particular ship it is with:

"Now don't be jittery - there are a lot of command ships"

The various X-wing novels, among others, establish that ships are mostly identified by the IFF transponder codes they broadcast. After all you are in space, distances are quite large and most ships don't have lettering on the hull you can actually read at engagement range. Since these are fairly simple digital signals, they are trivial to alter - when the Rogues quit New Republic service in the Bacta War every pilot changed their starfighter's IFF code entirely on their own. As a result, any ship of a standardized class can easily claim to be any other ship of the same class with minimal difficulty and prep work. Since the Imperial ship designs were highly standardized, that meant that they were all effectively interchangeable so that any ISD could effectively claim to be any other ISD. Even worse, since very few people, even high ranking Imperial officers never mind the New Republic, knew the full imperial order of battle, and because Palpatine was such a crazed madman, there were whole fleets of very large ships that existed without anyone knowing about them (this also serves as a rationalization for the publication schedule, providing cover for Thrawn not knowing about the massive imperial fleet that showed up in Dark Empire or the existence of the Maw Installation and other things). To the point where, as mentioned in Vision of the Future, at the height of the Empire the Rebellion could fabricate the ID for a Star Destroyer and have a decent chance of getting away with it.

[Sapphire Guard]

I think youre just placing more importance on the idea of a flagship than Thrawn does. Its not a super imposing weapon with a big "Shoot here to decapitate the fleet" sign on it, its just the ship Thrawn spends most of his time on. It is not inherently more capable or valuable than any other ship, save for the people who are onboard it at any given moment, and those can be transferred to some other ship if necessary.

Yeah, but I'm not hung up on the flagship because it has specific abilities. What I'm saying is

1) The Chimaera is identifiable as Thrawn's personal ship. Karrde hears the name earlier in the book and is immediately able to identify the CO. The Republic may not, but Luke might for all Thrawn knows. Also, C'Baoth certainly does know that the Chimaera is Thrawn's ship.

2) The flagship's time is valuable because Thrawn, who is co-ordinating everything, is on board. Pellaeon even says in the latest chapter that if Thrawn spends much more time chasing pirates, they'll have to delay the shipyards attack. Unless he's throwing everything he has into it, there are probably other ships that are not so absolutely necessary. So it seems weird that he has time to take away from attack planning to go ambush Skywalker, but that less vital ships are not available to continue the hunt.

They don't want the audience to get bogged down in ship names during films, but this book has already shown ship names to have relevance by Karrde identifying who was on board by virtue of the ship name. Not everyone will be able to do that, but it's possible.

Wait a minute.

That's it

This entire charade with the freighter isn't solely for the benefit of the New Republic.

It is also for the benefit of C'baoth, should Luke succeed in escaping.

Yes. That's explicit in the book. But part of my problem is that this charade is completely defeated the instant the Chimaera hails Luke using its real name. C'Baoth knows that ship. There's no real possibility of him buying that Thrawn just happened to be on the route he has already told him Skywalker would be on (with an Interdictor, no less) by coincidence.

C'Baoth has spent time co ordinating the Imperial Fleet, he's familiar with it. He easily might enquire details of Luke's encounter with the Empire, either suspecting treachery, to kill/commend the captain for interfering, or even simple interest. And while it might be possible that, say, the Judicator happened on Luke by coincidence, it's not possible for the Chimaera, because C'Baoth has already told Thrawn Luke would be travelling from the mine to Jomark. Seems like a huge unnecessary risk to use a real name that C'Baoth will immediately recognise if it ever comes up, especially as we've just established how easily they can use a different ID.

Sorry again for talking about this for so long.

CH25: Leia's in bed in Rookrrorro, listening to the nightlife. Her Jedi senses can't detect anything specific, but there's general unease. The locals were very vigilant in the immediate aftermath of the attack, but the alert has waned a bit. It's not unreasonable, but she's still worried. This Noghri team is bering a lot more careful than the others, it seems. Leia decides to leave, and reaches for her comlink. Someone grabs her hand. She cuts him in half with her lightsabre. Hopefully it wasn't Chewbacca reporting in.

It's not. The second alien disarms and grabs her... and then suddenly lets her go, shocked at something. My initial thought is that he /she/it either loved the one that got cut in half or has just realised she's pregnant and has qualms about kidnapping due to that.

The upside about lightsabres is that they make noise, and Chewbacca bursts in and knocks the alien cold. He/she/it doesn't resist.

Ralrra shows up hurt by a stun weapon fortunately not set for Wookiees. Three other Noghri are down, and with a fire four houses away, the local response will be delayed. The other Wookiee in the house, Salporin, is now dead.

The available transport is probably sabotaged, so they have to cut through the floor and go underneath the town. She tries to go alone and is refused, so she ties herself to Chewbacca and they go underneath, eventually being found by an airspeeder running no lights, so probably more assassins. Leia ties a rope end to a branch and they move on. Leia ties the rope to her lightsaber and lets it fall...right into the repulsorlifts. That is one hell of a shot. They return to the village and interrogate the survivor.

He asks for Leia's hand and sniffs it, then kneels and apologises, acknowledging her as the true heir of Darth Vader. Well. This is awkward. How did they get Vader's scent through the suit?

The assassin/kidnapper gives his name, and states that basically Vader (allegedly) saved their world after a starship battle damaged it. Leia wants to find the world and help, but he's reluctant in case it's destroyed again. They compromise. He will be let go, and Leia will come to his world alone at a prearranged meeting.

They hold Salporin's funeral and express misgivings about trust. Leia now has a species name to research back on Coruscant.

Well, that was interesting. If she really can lever the Noghri away from Thrawn... I feel it's unlikely in book 1 of the trilogy, but we'll see.

Pleased Raalra survived, a lot of writers would have killed all the NPCs.

So that explains where Thrawn got his supply of disposable assassins.

[Peelee]

Yeah, but I'm not hung up on the flagship because it has specific abilities. What I'm saying is

1) The Chimaera is identifiable as Thrawn's personal ship. Karrde hears the name earlier in the book and is immediately able to identify the CO. The Republic may not, but Luke might for all Thrawn knows. Also, C'Baoth certainly does know that the Chimaera is Thrawn's ship.

They don't want the audience to get bogged down in ship names during films, but this book has already shown ship names to have relevance by Karrde identifying who was on board by virtue of the ship name. Not everyone will be able to do that, but it's possible.

It's getting really hard to talk about this due to spoilers, but suffice it to say that Karrde's interests and perceptions greatly differ compared to most characters in the trilogy. Saying, "Karrde can do this, so it stands to reason that Luke might be able to as well" is not as good an argument as you may think. Regardless, I think you'll be less perturbed by this by the end of the series, assuming you like it enough to stick with it. Which I hope you do; even without the debate, it's pretty cool to see your analysis and impressions as a first-time reader.

2) The flagship's time is valuable because Thrawn, who is co-ordinating everything, is on board. Pellaeon even says in the latest chapter that if Thrawn spends much more time chasing pirates, they'll have to delay the shipyards attack. Unless he's throwing everything he has into it, there are probably other ships that are not so absolutely necessary. So it seems weird that he has time to take away from attack planning to go ambush Skywalker, but that less vital ships are not available to continue the hunt.

Pellaeon does indeed say that. Pellaeon has also been established as not yet being able to connect the dots that Thrawn lays out, and could easily be wrong.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Awesome, now we're getting started properly on my favorite subplot in the trilogy, and the kind of worldbuikding where Zahn really shines: alien cultures and how they clash with/complement other species in the galaxy.

Also, Leia continuing to be a BAMF while a pregnant diplomat. I pointed out how much I like Zahn's Luke for being empathic and clever, but I also love his Leia for her practiced dealmaking and willingness to go out on a limb for weird-ass aliens who were just trying to murder and/or eat her. And for how well she improvises. She's a trained fighter, remember, just not trained for this level of Bantha poodoo.

[Cikomyr]

Again. Zhan shows the importance of his heroes being grounded in skills, smarts and talent first, Space-Wizardry second.

Space Wizardry can help you in a crunch, but dont let it become your crutch.

[Dragonus45]

Just keep in mind that a need for control and to a degree micromanage complex plans is something of a character flaw for Thrawn. He really does have those after all.

[gomipile]

Spoiler: For book 3, and further than OP has read

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As for the name, did it have any relation to the character from Black Panther? Was it T'Challa trees or was it something similar and I am confusing it?

Spoiler

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They're ch'hala trees.

[Velaryon]

It's getting really hard to talk about this due to spoilers, but suffice it to say that Karrde's interests and perceptions greatly differ compared to most characters in the trilogy. Saying, "Karrde can do this, so it stands to reason that Luke might be able to as well" is not as good an argument as you may think. Regardless, I think you'll be less perturbed by this by the end of the series, assuming you like it enough to stick with it. Which I hope you do; even without the debate, it's pretty cool to see your analysis and impressions as a first-time reader.

Karrde has also been shown to have an exceptional level of information gathering ability relative to almost everyone else.

[Sapphire Guard]

It's getting really hard to talk about this due to spoilers, but suffice it to say that Karrde's interests and perceptions greatly differ compared to most characters in the trilogy.

Regardless of his background, he is currently an information broker. It's not an unreasonable possibility that he sold that to somebody, or some other information broker might have the same information, given that Luke has connections like that through Han. And even leaving that aside, C'Baoth will certainly recognise the name, which is important because the whole reason they're staging this as a coincidence in the first place is so they can capture Luke without losing their pet Dark Jedi. If he hears that name, the whole ruse falls apart, which he could hear if he asks Luke, which could happen for any number of reasons, from idle curiosity to suspicion of treachery.

Pellaeon does indeed say that. Pellaeon has also been established as not yet being able to connect the dots that Thrawn lays out, and could easily be wrong.

Thrawn immediately agrees and leaves the planet, so he doesn't think so.

CH26: Mara hesitantly cuts brush with the lightsabre, cautious of the noise and light, and suddenly, a vornskyr attacks. Luke dodges and she shoots it, but after two days with stimulants instead of sleep, her reflexes are slipping. They find a clearing where they can get signal, and C3PO delivers a message. There are stormtroopers at their destination. Karrde suggests that Luke pretends to be the Karrde employee, and Mara the renagade, which might be a decent way of getting through the checkpoint. They bicker a bit, then another vornskyr attacks. Wow, those things are everywhere.

Luke wakes up and screams the 'call of a krayt dragon', a Tattoine predator, drawing the vornskyr's attention. Mara wakes up and struggles a bit, and Luke charges, and gets hit by the sting-tail. R2 distracts it with a welder, but draws the attention, grabbing the tail long enough that Luke can get his lightsabre. He pokes it in the face so it backs off Mara, then cuts it in half.

Mara immediately puts him back at gunpoint. They banter a bit and he asks what he did to her. She says she was a dancer for Jabba, and he doesn't entirely buy it, due to lightsabre skills not being on Jabba's dancing curriculum. She's one of the Emperor's personal assassins, the Emperor's Hand.

...Unless there's more to it, that's a weaker reason for all her hate than I was expecting. I was expecting to hear about family on the Death Star or something. It's not even loyalty to the Emperor or Empire she's bitter about, it's just the loss of prestige, abandoned with nothing but her force sensitivity and elite assassin training to help her.

Jabba wouldn't let her onto the barge, and Luke realises that the vision on Dagobah told him a possible past, where she killed him there. Nice way to make a friend, huh.

Bonus chapter because it's short:

CH27:

Pellaeon and Thrawn are watching a test of the cloaking shield. It's very expensive. They're finally running this shipyard raid that first came up on page 80 or so.

Latest reports from the shipyards indicate 112 warships, 65 of which are cargo carriers.

Pellaeon has concerns about communications, and as usual , is brushed aside. Time will tell who is correct. Pell feels C'Baoth would be useful for exactly this situation, but Thrawn doesn't want to give him a taste for power.

They test the cloaking shield. It works.

"Then I take it the light is green?" Huh, I wonder where the Star Wars verse gets that phrase from.

Meanwhile, Wedge Antilles is arguing with a dispatcher. He disagrees with being assigned to escort cargo ships, so he's pointlessly arguing with a dispatcher who has no choice about the orders anyway. Grow up, Commander. Dispatcher hints that he's being moved out of Coruscant so that Fey'lya can make some kind of power play. Wedge doesn't like to get involved in politic, so he's suddenly just as glad to be out of Coruscant as he was annoyed a minute ago.

Hmm... you might want to tell someone about this before you go, Wedge. He's more comfortable fighting Imperials than politicking, so he might just get his wish.

[Keltest]

Regardless of his background, he is currently an information broker. It's not an unreasonable possibility that he sold that to somebody, or some other information broker might have the same information, given that Luke has connections like that through Han. And even leaving that aside, C'Baoth will certainly recognise the name, which is important because the whole reason they're staging this as a coincidence in the first place is so they can capture Luke without losing their pet Dark Jedi. If he hears that name, the whole ruse falls apart, which he could hear if he asks Luke, which could happen for any number of reasons, from idle curiosity to suspicion of treachery.

Why would that come up? Youre assuming that Luke was interested enough to pay attention to the name (when Star Destroyers are largely interchangeable) and that C'Baoth thinks the name would be meaningful no matter what it ended up being. Yeah, it wouldn't be great for Thrawn, if C'Baoth specifically asked Luke if it was Thrawn who tried to capture him and Luke said yes, but that's a fairly specific line of questioning, especially since imperials the galaxy over have reason to want to go after Luke anywhere they find him.

[The Glyphstone]

That was the first time Thrawn agrees with an objection by Pellaeon instead of shooting it down. Since that is a running theme in your commentary, its worth mentioning.

[Lethologica]

"Then I take it the light is green?" Huh, I wonder where the Star Wars verse gets that phrase from.

From the Death Star laser, of course.

[Cikomyr]

From the Death Star laser, of course.

There is a discussion about the universal of red to designate enemies in Truce at Bakura

[Gnoman]

Luke wakes up and screams the 'call of a krayt dragon', a Tattoine predator, drawing the vornskyr's attention. Mara wakes up and struggles a bit, and Luke charges, and gets hit by the sting-tail. R2 distracts it with a welder, but draws the attention, grabbing the tail long enough that Luke can get his lightsabre. He pokes it in the face so it backs off Mara, then cuts it in half.

This is a really subtle callback. Obi Wan Kenobi does the same thing when he rescues Luke from the Tusken Raiders back in A New Hope, but think that the line explaining it was cut, so it was not explained in the film itself, but only in the novelization.

[Tyndmyr]

Regardless of his background, he is currently an information broker. It's not an unreasonable possibility that he sold that to somebody, or some other information broker might have the same information, given that Luke has connections like that through Han. And even leaving that aside, C'Baoth will certainly recognise the name, which is important because the whole reason they're staging this as a coincidence in the first place is so they can capture Luke without losing their pet Dark Jedi. If he hears that name, the whole ruse falls apart, which he could hear if he asks Luke, which could happen for any number of reasons, from idle curiosity to suspicion of treachery.

Indeed. Thrawn has a streak of arrogance, and generally acts as if he does not expect others to be able to pull off the same things he does. Definitely a shortcoming on his part.

[Sapphire Guard]

Why would that come up? Youre assuming that Luke was interested enough to pay attention to the name (when Star Destroyers are largely interchangeable) and that C'Baoth thinks the name would be meaningful no matter what it ended up being.

C'Baoth has been heavily involved in co-ordinating the fleet, so he will recognise the name of Thrawn's personal ship. Luke could very well take an interest, since the Empire doesn't have vast swarms of SDs any more, it's relevant information to the republic where any of them are at any given time. It could be as simple as C'Baoth wondering 'why was a ship there? I don't remember sending any pirate hunting'. or for any number of other reasons.

That was the first time Thrawn agrees with an objection by Pellaeon instead of shooting it down. Since that is a running theme in your commentary, its worth mentioning.

Yep. And who is right about the communications concerns re shipyards raids is still up in the air. Pellaeon did manage a compromise between C'Baoth and Thrawn's plots earlier.

CH28
Luke and Mara hear speeder bikes, and discuss tactics. Mara assumes that they are being baited into going the direction where no speeder noise is coming from.

Can thirty troopers really cover this much ground?

Lacking any other options, they follow Karrde's advice and decide Luke is the bounty hunter. To help, Mara stings him with some kind of plant to make his skin swell to hide his face.

They quickly get stopped by biker scouts, and their fugitive being Mara at least makes the stormtroopers call for further instructions.

"The Male says his name is Jade," One of the stormtroopers reportedin that slightly filtered voice they all seemed to have."

Heh. Lucky description there. Although I think the clones were retired by this era. Luke acts huffy at being taken prisoner, and the major in charge is happy to inform them that there's a medic on staff to take care of the swelling. What a nice man.

They go into the town and are interrupted by a chained Han Solo, escorted by four locals. The stormtroopers take on this gift cautiously and continue moving.

They approach an archway in the central square, which is a good spot for an ambush. The stormtroopers are expecting trouble, so Luke 'trips' R2 so he can send a message to 3P0. The Commander is suspicious but does nothing for now.

Not really much to comment on except good coordination from the Stormtroopers. We've been on Mrkyrr for quite a while now.

[pendell]

Heh. Lucky description there. Although I think the clones were retired by this era. Luke acts huffy at being taken prisoner, and the major in charge is happy to inform them that there's a medic on staff to take care of the swelling. What a nice man.

Quick point: Remember that this book was published in the early 1990s, long before the prequels came out. It had not been established at this point that there was only one Clone War, singular, that it lasted three years, and that it was primarily fought by clones created on Kamino for the Republic.

Zahn was made to speculate on events prior to ANH. All he knows is that there was something called the "Clone Wars" which were fought within living memory.

And he takes things in a different direction than the prequels did.

As part of that, I believe you'll find that these stormtroopers, like the ill-fated Pietersen, are conscripts, not clones.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Peelee]

Quick point: Remember that this book was published in the early 1990s, long before the prequels came out. It had not been established at this point that there was only one Clone War, singular, that it lasted three years, and that it was primarily fought by clones created on Kamino for the Republic.

Zahn was made to speculate on events prior to ANH. All he knows is that there was something called the "Clone Wars" which were fought within living memory.

And he takes things in a different direction than the prequels did.

As part of that, I believe you'll find that these stormtroopers, like the ill-fated Pietersen, are conscripts, not clones.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Spoiler: Dunno what book it' s in.

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Isn't there a mention at some point of Pellaeon against clones?

[Cikomyr]

Regarding the background of Mara Jade..

Spoiler

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okay not really. But I think its not a good idea to imply anything regarding clones being a HUGE plot point. The idea that the Spaarti Cylinders are actually cloning vats is supposed to be a sucker punch at the end of Dark Force Rising.

Also going to spoilers whenever Clones are concerned is probably going to give away the prize...

[Peelee]

Regarding the background of Mara Jade..

Spoiler

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okay not really. But I think its not a good idea to imply anything regarding clones being a HUGE plot point. The idea that the Spaarti Cylinders are actually cloning vats is supposed to be a sucker punch at the end of Dark Force Rising.

Also going to spoilers whenever Clones are concerned is probably going to give away the prize...

Spoiler: Yeah, but don't forget that on the planet...

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I totally get what you're saying, but isn't this the first time that OP has mentioned clones and spoiler tags followed? I know I talked about it before, but I was talking about Thrawn using the Spaarti cylinders to make the Empire's troops terrifyingly competent in response to the OP talking about Thrawn's tactics. Has OP talked much about clones before?

[Nerd-o-rama]

To supplement all these spoiler boxes, allow me to say you must unlearn what you have learned, to understand the pre-1999 Star Wars continuity. Just bear that in mind when we get to later plot points.

[Keltest]

C'Baoth has been heavily involved in co-ordinating the fleet, so he will recognise the name of Thrawn's personal ship. Luke could very well take an interest, since the Empire doesn't have vast swarms of SDs any more, it's relevant information to the republic where any of them are at any given time. It could be as simple as C'Baoth wondering 'why was a ship there? I don't remember sending any pirate hunting'. or for any number of other reasons.

I mean, in a general sense sure, but given that FTL travel is a thing, by the time Luke is in a position to do anything about it, it could have relocated to the other side of the galaxy. And remember that Luke had other things on his mind besides the name of the ship attacking him.

[hamishspence]

Zahn was made to speculate on events prior to ANH. All he knows is that there was something called the "Clone Wars" which were fought within living memory.

And he takes things in a different direction than the prequels did.

As part of that, I believe you'll find that these stormtroopers, like the ill-fated Pietersen, are conscripts, not clones.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

After the prequels, there ended up being a "Clones are still very much the exception rather than the rule among stormtroopers" move. Even Head Banger from ANH (the trooper who bangs his head when the squad enters the room that 3PO and R2 are in aboard the Death Star) has been retconned into being non-clone.

Jango banging his head in AoTC was, according to Lucas commentary, a hint that Head Banger was a clone and had inherited Jango's occasional clumsiness - but the recent short story collection From a Certain Point of View makes it clear that he is not.

Spoiler: Dunno what book it' s in.

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Isn't there a mention at some point of Pellaeon against clones?

Seeing as it was right at the start of Heir to the Empire, immediately after C'baoth agreed to join Thrawn, it doesn't really need spoilering:

“Some sort of grand effort to extend the Old Republic's authority outside the galaxy, as I recall, launched just before the Clone Wars broke out. I never heard anything more about it.”
“That's because there wasn't anything more to be heard,” Thrawn said evenly. “It was intercepted by a task force outside Old Republic space and destroyed.”
Pellaeon stared at him, a shiver running up his back. “How do you know?"
Thrawn raised his eyebrows. “Because I was the force's commander. Even at that early date the Emperor recognized that the Jedi had to be exterminated. Six Jedi Masters aboard the same ship was too good an opportunity to pass up.”
Pellaeon licked his lips. “But then...?"
“Who is it we've brought aboard the Chimaera?” Thrawn finished the question for him. “I should have thought that obvious. Joruus C'baoth—note the telltale mispronunciation of the name Jorus—is a clone.”
Pellaeon stared at him. “A clone?”
“Certainly,” Thrawn said. “Created from a tissue sample, probably sometime just before the real C’baoth's death.”
“Early in the war, in other words,” Pellaeon said, swallowing hard. The early clones - or at least those the fleet had faced - had been highly unstable, both mentally and emotionally. Sometimes spectacularly so … “And you deliberately brought this thing aboard my ship?” he demanded.
“Would you rather we have brought back a full-fledged Dark Jedi?” Thrawn asked coldly. “A second Darth Vader, perhaps, with the sort of ambitions and power that might easily lead him to take over your ship? Count your blessings, Captain.”
“At least a Dark Jedi would have been predictable,” Pellaeon countered.
“C’baoth is predictable enough,” Thrawn assured him. “And for those times when he isn’t-” He waved a hand at the half dozen frameworks encircling his command center. “That’s what the ysalamiri are for.”
Pellaeon grimaced. “I still don’t like it, Admiral. We can hardly protect the ship from him while at the same time having him coordinate the fleet’s attacks.”
“There’s a degree of risk involved,” Thrawn agreed. “But risk has always been an inescapable part of warfare. In this case, the potential benefits far outweigh the potential dangers.”
Reluctantly, Pellaeon nodded. He didn’t like it - was fairly certain he would never like it - but it was clear that Thrawn had made up his mind.

[Nerd-o-rama]

After the prequels, there ended up being a "Clones are still very much the exception rather than the rule among stormtroopers" move. Even Head Banger from ANH (the trooper who bangs his head when the squad enters the room that 3PO and R2 are in aboard the Death Star) has been retconned into being non-clone.

Yeah even in newcanon, there's s decided emphasis that while the Clone Army formed the original core of the Stormtrooper Corps, clones were lost to rapid aging, defections, and attrition as the Corps greatly expanded, and were supplemented or replaced replaced with live-birth human conscripts and volunteers.

[Peelee]

Seeing as it was right at the start of Heir to the Empire, immediately after C'baoth agreed to join Thrawn, it doesn't really need spoilering:

Thanks. I thought it was mentioned early on, but like the tag title indicated, wasn't sure.

[Sapphire Guard]

I am aware that this book is pre-prequels canon, that's why I said it was a lucky piece of description that they all had similar voices, because that could be interpreted as indicative of cloning by later readers even if it couldn't have been intended that way when first written.

CH29: Threepio attempts to interrupt Lando's discussion with Karrde's aide Aimes. In tHe wants them to hold off on the ambush until they reach the ambush arch. Lando and aims argue the merits of letting the stormtroopers reach a superior defensive position. Lando is inclined to trust Luke, whereas Aimes' stance is 'if we leave any of them alive, they'll seal off the city'. Uh, there's only thirty of em, Aimes. Aimes disagrees, and Lando persuades him via gunpoint.

In the archway, the stormtroopers carrying Chin's blasters explode. The troopers respond by taking cover in the stone arch and Luke et al are sheltered too. Han breaks out of his cuffs, (they were fake) and releases Luke, who waits for the assault vehicle to cover the exits.

At his sniping point, Aimes is displeased that the stormtroopers turtled up and Lando takes a deflected hit, whereon Aimes decides to finish him.

The Chariot assault vehicle lands, and Han takess on the four guards. Luke leans out of the archway and R2 flicks him his lightsabre, so he takes the nearest four stormtroopers and then cuts the pillars of the arch, burying the unfortunate troopers under stone.

Action scene. Clever trick. That's pretty much it.

CH30:

Karrde walks through the ruins, impressed at Luke's abilities without the force. Two Chariots escaped, and Karrde knows that Admiral Thrawn will make him pay for this, so it's time to leave town. He sends away Mara so she can't interfere and then releases Han, Lando, and Luke. He still needs Han to get the Etherway out of impoundment. Han's not entirely pleased about how this panned out, but Karrde not turning them all over to the imperials is a point in his favour. Karrde leverages a spare warship out of Han for the deal, as a parting gift (not a euphemism, a sincere gift) in the hope of averting Thrawn's wrath. But he knows it's pretty unlikely.

On board the Falcon, Lando is being patched up, and Han reveals that they now know a Grand Admiral is running the empire. Luke gets the force back at twelve kilometers from the surface. Han asks about Mara, Luke mentions the'wants to kill me' part, but refuses to explain anything else because it's 'personal. Han accepts this pretty easily under the circumstances.

They get far enough for hyperspace, and Han sets a course for the shipyards to get X Wing Repairs and borrow a spare capital ship. Oh. This could be difficult.

In Deep Space, Thrawn's task force is assembled for battle: Five ISDs, Twelve Strike class cruisers, twenty two Carrack class light cruisers, and thirty squadrons of TIE fighters. If I remember right, his fleet is bigger than that, but its a fairly substantial force.

Known ISD: TheJudicator (repaired from its sun damage by now?), the Chimaera, the Inexorable and the Death's Head

He has at least twelve ISDs, not clear what kind of ship the Stormhawk and Nemesis are. So this ain't the whole fleet, but it's substantial. Plus a cloaked A-Class bulk fighter.

In a previous chapter, we had the Sluis Van shipyards defenses listed as 112 warships, but 65 of them are doing cargo duty. Plus whatever fighter escort they have, and depending on what class of warship they have.

Thrawns forces are slightly outnumbered, but have surprise and whatever this cloaked freighter is up to. Explosive suicide run, maybe? Or something to do with those mole miners.

Thrawn asks for an update on Myrkr, and hears that the stormtroopers have missed a check in. He deduces what happened.

Pellaeon suggests sending the Stormhawk or a Strike Cruiser. (Stormhawk's an ISD, then?) but Thrawn can't spare any ships right now, so they carry on with the operation.

The freighter moves ahead, the fleet will follow in six hours. The goal is to engage and pin down the system defences and raid for ships.

Alright, time to head into this raid that has been planned for 200 pages. We spent a pretty long time on Myrkr, I appreciate that they're keeping things fairly low key by Star Wars standards.

Akbar is going to take some heat for this for making warships move cargo, so this is calculated to be as damaging as possible to the republic while hitting a soft target. Interesting. Assuming no cutaway to Leia, next time, the raid.

[gomipile]

CH29: Threepio attempts to interrupt Lando's discussion with Karrde's aide Aimes.

Are you reading a copy which was printed for a market other than the United States? The character you're referring to is called Aves in every copy I've read, and on his Wookieepedia page(don't go there, I didn't link it because of spoilers.)

[russdm]

I am aware that this book is pre-prequels canon, that's why I said it was a lucky piece of description that they all had similar voices, because that could be interpreted as indicative of cloning by later readers even if it couldn't have been intended that way when first written.

Alright, time to head into this raid that has been planned for 200 pages. We spent a pretty long time on Myrkr, I appreciate that they're keeping things fairly low key by Star Wars standards.

Akbar is going to take some heat for this for making warships move cargo, so this is calculated to be as damaging as possible to the republic while hitting a soft target. Interesting. Assuming no cutaway to Leia, next time, the raid.

Didn't we last see Leia planning to go to Coruscant? I mean, aren't Thrawn and our heroes heading to the same place? Wouldn't more with Leia break the pacing at this point?

[Mechalich]

I am aware that this book is pre-prequels canon, that's why I said it was a lucky piece of description that they all had similar voices, because that could be interpreted as indicative of cloning by later readers even if it couldn't have been intended that way when first written.

Zahn was actually trying to imply that when you hear Stormtroopers speak the words are being filtered through their helmet coms and you aren't hearing their natural voices, not anything about them being identical. This was a plot point in later works about how the Empire of the Hand could put aliens in Stormtrooper armor and no one would know. The Essential Guide to Warfare even made the point that a non-zero percentage of all Stormtroopers were women, and you just couldn't actually tell.

After the prequels, there ended up being a "Clones are still very much the exception rather than the rule among stormtroopers" move. Even Head Banger from ANH (the trooper who bangs his head when the squad enters the room that 3PO and R2 are in aboard the Death Star) has been retconned into being non-clone.

The distribution of clones in Republic and later Imperial forces was an ongoing point of EU contention up till the very moment Legends got written off, in part due to certain people - notably Karen Traviss - choosing '3 million' as a hill to die on for no good reason whatsoever. Lucasfilm never got around to finalizing just how many Jango Fett Clones there were and what proportion of the overall force s they represented.

It's worth noting that, by the time of the Thrawn Trilogy Stormtroopers in general, regardless of origin, are implied to be rare and the Empire has trouble training men to that level. Zahn created 'Imperial Army Troops' to represent the bulk of the Imperial ground forces, implying that Stormtroopers were an elite independent force something like the US Marine Corps (they were not the Empire's equivalent of the SS, that's a different entity called COMPFORCE).

[Douglas]

Spoiler

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Unless Sapphire Guard already knows about Spaarti Clones, which I doubt, the name is a spoiler in light of the Spaarti Cylinders that are still being kept mysterious at this point in this story.