Reading Heir to the Empire

[Cikomyr]

Also, while they may be moving away from the Prequels, they still seem very invested in doing OT prequel films - Rogue One, Han Solo, Obiwan, etc..

[Peelee]

Also, while they may be moving away from the Prequels, they still seem very invested in doing OT prequel films - Rogue One, Han Solo, Obiwan, etc..

I've disliked every appearance of Obi-Wan after the OT. They only serve to make it harder to justify his dialogue in Episode IV. "I don't recall owning a Droid." Except that this Droid saved you and your Padawan and HIS Padawan as well countless times. There was a relationship of close familiarity for years. "Obi wan? Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time." And by "long time," he means

Spoiler: Rebels

Show

"like four years ago when I killed Darth Maul again."

[The Glyphstone]

I think all of that dialogue can be increasingly justified by Obi-Wan being a filthy liar. Everyone knows his 'from a certain point of view' dodge, but I think all the post-OT retcons just establish him to be spinning Luke nothing but endless strings of falsehoods and bantha poodoo.

[Keltest]

I've disliked every appearance of Obi-Wan after the OT. They only serve to make it harder to justify his dialogue in Episode IV. "I don't recall owning a Droid." Except that this Droid saved you and your Padawan and HIS Padawan as well countless times. There was a relationship of close familiarity for years. "Obi wan? Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time." And by "long time," he means

Spoiler: Rebels

Show

"like four years ago when I killed Darth Maul again."

To be fair, four years IS a long time, and Obi-wan, even in the Clone Wars series, never really put the same significance on R2 that Anakin (and the audience) did. Obi-wan was a general after all, he worked with a lot of droids in varying capacities.

[russdm]

Umm, I don't recall Obiwan saying he didn't know R2, what I recall him saying was that he didn't own any droids, while R2 was claiming to be the property of Obiwan Kenobi, or basically, R2 was claiming to be owned by Obiwan. After Luke learns that Ben is Obiwan, he states that R2 does belong to Obiwan, this causes Obiwan to mention that he didn't recall owning any droids. Nowhere in the scenes does it suggest that Luke asked if Ben knew R2, it was only whether Obiwan owned the droid.

In the actual scene, Alec G. seems to hesitate before answering Luke how his father died. It may or may not have been in, but it does work to help in playing with the other bit. Although, I would have to ask, How able would have Luke have been to hear the truth?

Luke: "How did my father die?"
Obiwan: "Well, he isn't dead, he is actually Darth Vader, having turned to the dark side, having murdered countless Jedi, murdered your mother(or some way of Anakin being responsible), Then I went and cut off several of his limbs before leaving him to die in lava/magma. Now he serves the Emperor, trapped in a life support suit."
Luke: !!!!!

I don't see Luke not simply fainting at the reveal. He doesn't really handle learning it in Episode 5 after all.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Obi-wan tells a lot more half-truths than lies. He's a fundamentally cagey bastard in the OT, but over the years I've come to think I can't really blame him.

I mean, what happened the last time he trusted a Skywalker with everything?

[Gnoman]

In the actual scene, Alec G. seems to hesitate before answering Luke how his father died. It may or may not have been in, but it does work to help in playing with the other bit.

This video helps illustrate that idea.

[Peelee]

I think all of that dialogue can be increasingly justified by Obi-Wan being a filthy liar. Everyone knows his 'from a certain point of view' dodge, but I think all the post-OT retcons just establish him to be spinning Luke nothing but endless strings of falsehoods and bantha poodoo.

To be fair, four years IS a long time, and Obi-wan, even in the Clone Wars series, never really put the same significance on R2 that Anakin (and the audience) did.

Alec Guiness was a great choice for Obi-Wan. He was an acting powerhouse. The line and delivery of "Obi-Wan Kenobi? Obi-Wan... now that's a name I've not heard in a long time... long time" indicates that he has all but forgotten his old life. Not that he has

Spoiler: Rebels

Show

chopped a former Sith down back when Luke was in high school.

Umm, I don't recall Obiwan saying he didn't know R2, what I recall him saying was that he didn't own any droids, while R2 was claiming to be the property of Obiwan Kenobi, or basically, R2 was claiming to be owned by Obiwan. After Luke learns that Ben is Obiwan, he states that R2 does belong to Obiwan, this causes Obiwan to mention that he didn't recall owning any droids. Nowhere in the scenes does it suggest that Luke asked if Ben knew R2, it was only whether Obiwan owned the droid.

Semantics. Ahsoka and Anakin never owned R2 either, to the best of my knowledge, yet they get filled with emotion when they see him. Also, Kenobi has no compunctions about telling Luke that he was a Jedi, so hiding that he knows R2 seems more than a bit ridiculous. If the OT was written like the PT, Clone Wars series, and current canon, the line would likely have been more akin to, "I don't recall ever owning a droi-oh hey, R2! We're old war buddies! He even saved your father's life quite a few times. What are you doing here?"

[Sapphire Guard]

Seems like exactly the kind of semantics Obi Wan would do, he does the 'from a certain point of view' thing a lot. Although that Rebels scene did push things a bit.

R2 is Anakin and Padme's droid, not his, I could buy that he didn't consider him as significant as Anakin did.

CH7:

Chewbacca puts the Falcon into orbit over Endor, which is pretty deserted these days. On the plus side, there are no ISDs, which means it's probably not a trap. The Falcon, as always, needs repairs, and Leia is setting to them when she suddenly faints. She's not sure what happened but eventually finds out that the orbit they're on takes her through where the Death Star was destroyed She changes the orbit, as periodic fainting could get annoying and a Force Ghost Palpatine attack would also dampen the mood.

Meanwhile, Han is nervously watching Lando pilot, because he's not comfortable not being in the pilot seat. They're going to Ilic, which is on a planet with particularly violent plantlife, so the cities are armoured. They land, and Lando asks about the inevitable 'hook' to keep him in the game. They're talking when Han recognises one of Fey'lya's aides and decides to follow them. He follows them to a particular building is is promptly held up at gunpoint. Seems like that happens a lot. Then sirens go off.

Luke is in the bar where they're supposed to meet, when an inevitable Mexican standoff breaks out between a Rodian and a Barabel, or whatever the Star Wars equivalent is. One of the participants is relaxed enough to shoot a droid before the other can react, which doesn't say much for his chances.

They argue a bit, and then the Barabel calls upon Jedi for judgement. Well, so much for a low profile. He's asked to settle the dispute. He gets them to put away their blasters, then enquires as to what';s going on. The Barabel was hired for a job, but paid in Imperial currency which is worthless here. Lando shows up to help translate. The locals aren't keen to admit dealing with Empire to a Jedi, but fortunately he sniffs out Niles Ferrier. The locals have enough respect for Jedi that he has to help, so he plays moneylender to settle the dispute, meanwhile the Barabel pays for the destroyed bar droid.

Then the sirens go off-an Imperial raid. Nobody else seems to worry, but if they find out who's here, that could change quick. So they get moving and looking for Han.

Good chapter. I love getting to see the Diplomacy side of Jedi-ing, that's overlooked way too often, and it's nice to see Luke getting respect although it does make it a bit hard to keep a low profile with a bounty on his head.

[tomandtish]

The way they talk about the GA's it's clear they have an established reputation 'Let's see how you would do against a Grand Admiral'. You can't have a reputation like that unless you know something about what they've previously done.

I mean, 'Let's see how you'd do against a Jedi Master' That only works if you have some idea what Jedi are or what they've done/can do.

It's also good to note that prior to Zahn's work the "Grand Admiral" title didn't exist. Zahn felt you needed someone one out there who was actually competent at the military job, and nothing we saw about the Grand Moffs actually indicated military competence as opposed to political competence/loyalty.

I've always suspected that if Zahn had control from the beginning, then Tarkin would be more competent (and a GA), with Vader in actual charge of the Death Star.

[Cikomyr]

It's also good to note that prior to Zahn's work the "Grand Admiral" title didn't exist. Zahn felt you needed someone one out there who was actually competent at the military job, and nothing we saw about the Grand Moffs actually indicated military competence as opposed to political competence/loyalty.

I've always suspected that if Zahn had control from the beginning, then Tarkin would be more competent (and a GA), with Vader in actual charge of the Death Star.

The only Grand Moff we ever saw was.. the infamous Tarkin.

Who didnt seemed half incompetent. A bit arrogant, but that is par for the course.

[tomandtish]

The only Grand Moff we ever saw was.. the infamous Tarkin.

Who didnt seemed half incompetent. A bit arrogant, but that is par for the course.

From a military perspective we never really saw competence either. And not even asking what the potential weakness WAS points to a decided lack of military competence (namely WAY too much over-confidence).

[Peelee]

Seems like exactly the kind of semantics Obi Wan would do, he does the 'from a certain point of view' thing a lot. Although that Rebels scene did push things a bit.

R2 is Anakin and Padme's droid, not his, I could buy that he didn't consider him as significant as Anakin did.

The semantics thing being Kenobi's style I would totally grant you, if there was any reason whatsoever to deny knowing the droid. But despite how much time I've given to it today, it's not exactly high on my list of Star War complaints. Similarly, as many things in Rebels make me twitch a bit

Spoiler: Rebels

Show

Helicopter lightsabers. Imean really now.

, it's still a fantastic show.

[Kish]

The only Grand Moff we ever saw was.. the infamous Tarkin.

Who didnt seemed half incompetent. A bit arrogant, but that is par for the course.

He threatened to blow up Leia's home planet to get her to give an answer, took her word for the answer and, without any effort to confirm its accuracy, immediately sent her the most powerful possible "it would never be in your interests to cooperate with me" message, which doubled as a "living under the Empire may mean you and everyone you know gets blown up at any time for no reason, so, you know, if you were doing a risk/reward analysis on the idea of accepting our rule" message to everyone in the galaxy. And he died sneering at advice to evacuate.

Literally every time he did anything more significant than "stand there and sound snide," it showed gross incompetence.

[Cikomyr]

He threatened to blow up Leia's home planet to get her to give an answer, took her word for the answer and, without any effort to confirm its accuracy, immediately sent her the most powerful possible "it would never be in your interests to cooperate with me" message, which doubled as a "living under the Empire may mean you and everyone you know gets blown up at any time for no reason, so, you know, if you were doing a risk/reward analysis on the idea of accepting our rule" message to everyone in the galaxy. And he died sneering at advice to evacuate.

Literally every time he did anything more significant than "stand there and sound snide," it showed gross incompetence.

But it also removed one of the Alliance's biggest military and political supporter.

[Peelee]

Takes Leia's word that Dantooine has the rebel base. Pulls the trigger on his ultimatum anyway. Chides Leia for being too trusting. Then is shocked to find out she lied. Shoulda taken his own advice. Even after Vader tried to warn him.

[bguy]

He threatened to blow up Leia's home planet to get her to give an answer, took her word for the answer and, without any effort to confirm its accuracy, immediately sent her the most powerful possible "it would never be in your interests to cooperate with me" message, which doubled as a "living under the Empire may mean you and everyone you know gets blown up at any time for no reason, so, you know, if you were doing a risk/reward analysis on the idea of accepting our rule" message to everyone in the galaxy. And he died sneering at advice to evacuate.

I agree with you about how Tarkin handled Leia (and would add his astonishing failure to deploy an adequate number of TIE fighters during the Battle of Yavin), but he was right to sneer at the advice to evacuate. Naval commanders don't get to abandon their perfectly intact warship just because there is a chance it might get destroyed while under enemy attack, and if Tarkin had abandoned the Death Star in that moment he would certainly have been executed for cowardice in the face of the enemy.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Does depend a bit on how the Empire's military treats space station commanders vs. how real life navies treat warship commanders, but it probably would be harsher, if anything. Still, he's a pretty standard example of dying to severe underestimation of the enemy's capabilities common among villainous military leaders in fiction and semi-common among real life military leaders.

As for his handling of the Alderaan situation, it does seem implied that he was going to wipe out Alderaan regardless for political reasons (as opposed to pique or just to taunt Leia), but at the same time he really has no idea how to get information out of a prisoner who's actually been trained in resisting interrogation.

Regardless, Tarkin is a politician - an Extremely Imperial politician who's an expert at enforcing order through a doctrine of terror, rather than the schmoozing and positive PR you get in Earth's liberal democracies. Everything in the text of the film and subsequent EU works (in both continuities) enforces that, and gives no indication of his abilities as a strategist or military commander, despite his being part of the military hierarchy like most Imperial sector governors.

[Keltest]

The semantics thing being Kenobi's style I would totally grant you, if there was any reason whatsoever to deny knowing the droid. But despite how much time I've given to it today, it's not exactly high on my list of Star War complaints. Similarly, as many things in Rebels make me twitch a bit

Spoiler: Rebels

Show

Helicopter lightsabers. Imean really now.

, it's still a fantastic show.

He never denies knowing R2 though (although really, the odds of it still being that same R2 unit are infinitesimally low), just owning a droid, which is accurate. The jedi down really own a lot of property, most of the things they used were owned by the temple and distributed as needed. Anakin's attachment to R2, and his neglecting to memory wipe him regularly, are both highly irregular among jedi, to the point where Obi-wan was shocked and appalled in TCW to learn about the latter.

[hamishspence]

Everything in the text of the film and subsequent EU works (in both continuities) enforces that, and gives no indication of his abilities as a strategist or military commander, despite his being part of the military hierarchy like most Imperial sector governors.

The Tarkin novel shows us a bit more of his military backstory - as commander of a pirate-hunting "home fleet", then a part of the Republic military. In that, we see some "military commander" ability - and also, his "terrorise enemies" method - in a period before even TPM.

We know from TCW, that he was first a Captain and then an Admiral, before Palpatine promoted him to Moff (one of, initially, 20 moffs in the Empire, governing 20 oversectors).

Later, it appears the Emperor demoted the title of Moff, to mean "sector governor" rather than "oversector governor" when he introduced the Grand Moff title into the hierarchy.

Tarkin wielded a bit more power than regular Grand Moffs, being governor of the entire Outer Rim.

[Peelee]

He never denies knowing R2 though (although really, the odds of it still being that same R2 unit are infinitesimally low), just owning a droid, which is accurate.

Considering the importance of R2 throughout the PT and Clone Wars show, it dies staff to reason he would be, at the very least, interested in it suddenly showing up again. Especially when he is willing to readily abmit he is an event of the state.

Also, R2 is, for some unknown reason, fairly recognizable by those who are familiar with it.

[Keltest]

Considering the importance of R2 throughout the PT and Clone Wars show, it dies staff to reason he would be, at the very least, interested in it suddenly showing up again. Especially when he is willing to readily abmit he is an event of the state.

Also, R2 is, for some unknown reason, fairly recognizable by those who are familiar with it.

He was interested enough to go to Alderaan and join the rebellion, and to take Luke with him.

[Peelee]

He was interested enough to go to Alderaan and join the rebellion, and to take Luke with him.

Interested in the message, not the carrier. If you got an urgent letter in you mailbox, would you act exactly the same way you would if an old war buddy delivered it personally? Because Obi-Wan apparently does

[Gnoman]

We see no indication in the prequels (I haven't watched any of the cartoon series) that Kenobi has any more regard for R2 than he does any other droid, or even more than he has for the ships carrying him around the galaxy. If you encountered furniture from a workplace you haven't been to for twenty years, would you even notice?

[hamishspence]

We see no indication in the prequels (I haven't watched any of the cartoon series) that Kenobi has any more regard for R2 than he does any other droid, or even more than he has for the ships carrying him around the galaxy.

And in the ROTS novel, Obi-Wan expects Anakin to abandon R2 to be destroyed, rather than risk the mission:

Spoiler

Show

"We'll make our way forward!" Obi-Wan shouted. "There are only droids back here! Once we hit live-crew areas, there will be escape pods!"
Only droids back here echoed inside Anakin's head. "Obi-Wan, wait!" he cried. "Artoo's still here somewhere! We can't leave him!"
"He's probably been destroyed, or blown into space!" Obi-Wan deflected blaster bursts from the last two gale-blown droids. They tumbled up to the gap in the blast doors and vanished into the infinite void. Obi-Wan put away his lightsaber and fought his way back to a grip beside Anakin's. "We can't afford the time to search for him. I'm sorry, Anakin. I know how much he meant to you."
Anakin desperately fished out his comlink. "Artoo! Artoo, come in!" He shook it, and shook it again. Artoo couldn't have been destroyed. He just couldn't. "Artoo, do you copy? Where are you?"
"Anakin—" Obi-Wan's hand was on his arm, and the Jedi Master leaned so close that his low tone could be heard over the rising gale. "We must go. Being a Jedi means allowing things—even things we love—to pass out of our lives."
Anakin shook the comlink again. "Artoo!" He couldn't just leave him. He couldn't. And he didn't exactly have an explanation.
Not one he could ever give Obi-Wan, anyway.
There are so few things a Jedi ever owns; even his lightsaber is less a possession than an expression of his identity. To be a Jedi is to renounce possessions. And Anakin had tried so hard, tried for so long, to do just that. Even on their wedding day, Anakin had had no devotion-gift for his new wife; he didn't actually own anything.
But love will find a way.
He had brought something like a gift to her apartments in Theed, still a little shy with her, still overwhelmed by finding the feelings in her he'd felt so long himself, not knowing quite how to give her a gift which wasn't really a gift. Nor was it his to give.
Without anything of his own to give except his love, all he could bring her was a friend.
"I didn't have many friends when I was a kid," he'd told her, "so I built one."
And C-3PO had shuffled in behind him, gleaming as though he'd been plated with solid gold.
Padme had lit up, her eyes gleaming, but she had at first tried to protest. "I can't accept him," she'd said. "I know how much he means to you." Anakin had only laughed. What use is a protocol droid to a Jedi? Even one as upgraded as 3PO—Anakin had packed his creation with so many extra circuits and subprograms and heuristic algorithms that the droid was practically human.
"I'm not giving him to you," he'd told her. "He's not even really mine to give; when I built him, I was a slave, and everything I did belonged to Watto. Cliegg Lars bought him along with my mother; Owen gave him back to me, but I'm a Jedi. I have renounced possessions. I guess that means he's free now. What I'm really doing is asking you to look after him for me."
"Look after him?" "Yes. Maybe even give him a job. He's a little fussy," he'd admitted, "and maybe I shouldn't have given him quite so much self-consciousness—he's a worrier—but he's very smart, and he might be a real help to a big-time diplomat... like, say, a Senator from Naboo?"
Padme then had extended her hand and graciously invited C-3PO to join her staff, because on Naboo, high-functioning droids were respected as thinking beings, and 3PO had been so flustered at being treated like a sentient creature that he'd been barely able to speak, beyond muttering something about hoping he might make himself useful, because after all he was "fluent in over six million forms of communication."
Then she had turned to Anakin and laid her soft, soft hand along his jawline to draw him down to kiss her, and that was all he had needed, all he had hoped for; he would give her everything he had, everything he was—


And there had come another day, two years later, a day that had meant nearly as much to him as the day they had wed: the day he had finally passed his trials.
The day he had become a Jedi Knight.
As soon as circumstances allowed he had slipped away, on his own now, no Master over his shoulder, no one to monitor his comings and his goings and so he could take himself to the vast Coruscant complex at 500 Republica where Naboo's senior Senator kept her spacious apartments.
And he had then, finally, two years late, a devotion-gift for her.
He had then one thing that he truly owned, that he had earned, that he was not required to renounce. One gift he could give her to celebrate their love.
The culmination of the Ceremony of Jedi Knighthood is the severing of the new Jedi Knight's Padawan braid.
And it was this that he laid into Padme's trembling hand. One long, thin braid of his glossy hair: such a little thing, of no value at all.
Such a little thing, that meant the galaxy to him.
And she had kissed him then, and laid her soft cheek against his jaw, and she had whispered in his ear that she had something for him as well.
Out from her closet had whirred R2-D2.
Of course Anakin knew him; he had known him for years—the little droid was a decorated war hero himself, having saved Padme's life back when she had been Queen of Naboo, not to mention helping the nine-year-old Anakin destroy the Trade Federation's Droid Control Ship, breaking the blockade and saving the planet. The Royal Engineers of Naboo's aftermarket wizardry made their modified R-units the most sought after in the galaxy; he'd tried to protest, but she had silenced him with a soft finger against his lips and a gentle smile and a whisper of "After all what does a politician need with an astromech?"
"But I'm a Jedi—"
"That's why I'm not giving him to you," she'd said with a smile. "I'm asking you to look after him. He's not really a gift. He's a friend."
All this flashed though Anakin's mind in the stretching second before his comlink finally crackled to life with a familiar fwee-wheoo, and his heart unclenched. "Artoo, where are you? Come on, we have to get out of here!"
High above, on the wall that was supposed to be the floor, the lid of a battered durasteel storage locker shifted, pushed aside by a dome of silver and blue. The lid swung fully open and R2-D2 righted itself, deployed its booster rockets, and floated out from the locker, heading for the far exit.
Anakin gave Obi-Wan a fierce grin.
Let someone he loves pass out of his life? Not likely.

It shows the difference between the way Anakin thinks of R2- as a loved one - and the way Obi-Wan thinks of him.

Anakin tends to refer to droids as "he" whereas Obi-Wan corrects that to "it":

"Is that last one still on my nose? Arfour, can you do anything?"
The only response he got came from Anakin. "That's a negative on Arfour. Buzz droid got him."
"It," Obi-Wan corrected automatically.

though occasionally, even he forgets, when Artoo rescuing him is impressive enough:

"You know," Obi-Wan said, "I begin to understand why you speak of Artoo as though he's a living creature."
"Do you?" He could hear Anakin's smile. "Don't you mean, it?"
"Ah, yes." He frowned. "Yes, of course. It. Erm, thank it for me, will you?"
"Thank him yourself."
"Ah—yes. Thanks, Artoo."

[Sapphire Guard]

Imperial incompetence is overblown a bit. It comes up mainly in these forms.

1. Comic relief in the TV shows.
2. Reasonable decisions that appear foolish with hindsight.
3. Whenever Thrawn needs someone nearby to be incompetent so he can call it out.
4. Deliberate traps, ie, the Stormtroopers incompetently allowing the ship with the tracker in it to escape.

Tarkin's Plan A doesn't work, so he gives up on interrogation and goes to Plan B, following the Falcon to Yavin 4.

There was no time to evacuate anyway, and it would be silly for a naval commander to flee because he's told there is less than a 100% chance of victory. The Death Star's destruction was still very unlikely, it just wasn't impossible.

CH8:

Han is taken to an office under guard, and then a woman shows up and seems uncertain as to whether he is who he says he is. Tav Breil'lya, Fey'lya's aide turns up and very poorly tries to paint him as an Imposter imperial spy. Security lady is unconvinced, especially when Luke shows up.

The raid is still ongoing, which normally won't be a huge deal, but with celebrities here that might change. On the whole, I think I'd just try to keep my head down, but instead they try to make a break for it. Sena the security lady informs 'the Commander' about the state of affairs, and they leave through a service shaft to get to the ship docks and assess their options.

Note to Self:'Imperial Task Force' =160-200 men. Most of them are gone into the city, so they know someone's here. R2's still in the X Wing, but probably has a restraining bolt. And one stormtrooper is on guard. Whoever is in command doesn't know much about Jedi.

Han and Luke get to the X Wing, then Lando uses his beckon call to make the Lady Luck pilot itself, drawing Imperial attention, allowing Luke to get to the X Wing and cut off the restraining bolt, and get the X Wing into the air and shooting to disrupt the Imperials. Han picks up Lando, then they fly for orbit. Four TIEs are on escort, but they get taken quickly, leaving them to contend only with the ISD above the Planet. More TIEs launch, and Luke has to play escort, separating from the others.

Dreadnoughts suddenly show up and began trying to disable the ISD with Ion cannons since they can't take it normally. So they can escape, but have to split up as the Empire will be listening to any arranged meeting. So they split up, Han and Lando slightly reluctantly going to meet Senu's mystery commander. Meanwhile, Luke decides he might as well take a look at Jomark. Hopefully the journey goes better than last time.

Hmm...I'm trying to get a sense of the scale here. 200 doesn't seem like enough troops to secure a city, but is probably too many for a raid. If they really recognised the ships, they didn't do a good job of securing them, but if they didn't, why did they search the city? I'll just assume there was more than one raid organised from the ISD to make it worth bringing along.

Karrde seems the most likely candidate for 'The Commander', and he does have Dreadnoughts, although this kind of action would be kind of out of character. We'll see.

[Friv]

There was no time to evacuate anyway, and it would be silly for a naval commander to flee because he's told there is less than a 100% chance of victory. The Death Star's destruction was still very unlikely, it just wasn't impossible.

I think the point of that scene was that Tarkin isn't a naval commander, he's a political officer. It's like someone telling the President, "Hey, there's a chance that this battleship is going to explode. It probably won't, but we would like to get you back to safety just in case" and the President saying "F U I want to watch the other guys explode!"

There wasn't time for a mass evacuation, but Tarkin could have gotten out. They were still a few minutes away from firing, and the Death Star got destroyed at the last second.

[Kish]

Imperial incompetence is overblown a bit. It comes up mainly in these forms.

1. Comic relief in the TV shows.
2. Reasonable decisions that appear foolish with hindsight.
3. Whenever Thrawn needs someone nearby to be incompetent so he can call it out.
4. Deliberate traps, ie, the Stormtroopers incompetently allowing the ship with the tracker in it to escape.

Tarkin's Plan A doesn't work, so he gives up on interrogation and goes to Plan B, following the Falcon to Yavin 4.

...well, of course Tarkin's blatant incompetence isn't visible anymore if you deliberately phrase your description of events to ignore it.

You keep asserting the Empire in the movies isn't as grossly incompetent as it actually is. Not supporting--just asserting. Faced with examples to the contrary you act like you didn't see them, even as you nominally respond to the comments that point them out. I wonder why you're doing that. Not wanting to admit that the original movies were as fundamentally cartoonish in their portrayal of their evil organization as they were? It won't change what went up on the screen or make Zahn having a character recognize the problem invalid, you know.

[Peelee]

We see no indication in the prequels (I haven't watched any of the cartoon series) that Kenobi has any more regard for R2 than he does any other droid, or even more than he has for the ships carrying him around the galaxy. If you encountered furniture from a workplace you haven't been to for twenty years, would you even notice?

Your first point is good, and bolstered by hamishspence. I'll concede the point. But likening droids to furniture is ridiculous. They can have clear personalities and personal agency (such as in R2's case), making them much more than furniture, even if less than people. It's a bad comparison.

[Keltest]

Your first point is good, and bolstered by hamishspence. I'll concede the point. But likening droids to furniture is ridiculous. They can have clear personalities and personal agency (such as in R2's case), making them much more than furniture, even if less than people. It's a bad comparison.

R2 is, as far as I know, shown to be immensely unusual in having personality and agency. Even combat droids, which are specifically designed with a degree of agency in mind, aren't normally as good as biological sentients are. In Legends canon, I seem to recall it being a quirk of the R-series droids specifically that they would develop personalities and stubborn streaks if left without memory wipes. That being generally undesirable (who wants a minion who gets stubborn on them?), its not particularly surprising that they are given very frequent memory wipes most of the time, and thus do not develop personalities. Frankly, even if Obi-wan did recognize R2, its likely he assumed that the droid he knew had been erased.