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  1. - Top - End - #631
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by jayem View Post
    His Conquerer's trilogy I remember liking too.
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    I really loved how that whole thing was a massive misunderstanding, and that the Zhirrzh's entire empire is built off that misunderstanding. I also loved how both factions are terrified of the other's technology without realizing how afraid the other race is.


    Sapphire Guard, in really hoping when you finish the series you'll do the Thrawn Duology. I think it's vastly better than the trilogy, and I'd love to hear your take on it.
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    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"
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  2. - Top - End - #632
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    The duology is probably my favorite set from the EU. I still get the feels when I read a certain moment.

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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    If nothing else, that duology spends some of its time agreeing with SG's criticisms of this trilogy, although that may mainly be in the back half of it.

    Really though, glad you're enjoying it. I think it's nonspoilers now that this trilogy doesn't really contain one singular "superweapon" as is standard for Star Wars. Instead what it has is disparate pieces and tools, and the fun is guessing how Thrawn is going to combine them. Delta Source, the New Republic's structural problems, cloaking devices, C'Baoth, the Noghri, the Katana fleet, and now clones (which they'll explain the details of in the next book, don't worry). It's an endless combinatorial explosion of wacky strategies.
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  4. - Top - End - #634
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Sapphire Guard, in really hoping when you finish the series you'll do the Thrawn Duology. I think it's vastly better than the trilogy, and I'd love to hear your take on it.
    Hmm... maybe. My impression by vague reputation was that this was Thrawn at his best, and afterwards he deteriorated. I will most likely pick up Outbound Flight as it's actually in my local library. After that, we'll see what my mindset is.

  5. - Top - End - #635
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Sadly, Outbound Flight is very nticably a retcon novel.
    Its not horible, but much much worse than both trilogy and Doulogy. The only "Good" Part in my opinion is ... spoilery. ;)
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  6. - Top - End - #636
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    By the time of the Thrawn Duology, Thrawn isn't the leader that he used to be and has a lot of limitations.
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    (and the issues with that are significant for both books). I don't think that spoils too much either now or then.

  7. - Top - End - #637
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by jayem View Post
    By the time of the Thrawn Duology, Thrawn isn't the leader that he used to be and has a lot of limitations.
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    (and the issues with that are significant for both books). I don't think that spoils too much either now or then.
    Without spoiling anything, I wholly disagree.

    For reals, Sapphire Guard, this and Jayem"s post aren't spoiling anything. I can say this with a good amount of confidence, knowing full well what has been said about spoilers in this thread, but I can't go into detail.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"
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  8. - Top - End - #638
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    I think let's just let SG finish the trilogy so we can discuss things more openly before arguing for the duology as a rec.
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    Hmm... maybe. My impression by vague reputation was that this was Thrawn at his best, and afterwards he deteriorated. I will most likely pick up Outbound Flight as it's actually in my local library. After that, we'll see what my mindset is.
    Outbound Flight has a sequel, Survivor's Quest, that is worth a read. It finishes up a plot-line or two introduced in places.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayDeath View Post
    Sadly, Outbound Flight is very nticably a retcon novel.
    Its not horible, but much much worse than both trilogy and Doulogy. The only "Good" Part in my opinion is ... spoilery. ;)
    Since the Thrawn Trilogy was written before any prequels, Zahn would have needed to make some retcons, especially since the prequels effectively wrecked nearly everything that had come out prior to Episode 1. Each prequel ended up adding more and more required retcons. Lucas didn't have any of the prequel story worked out really, so that was a bit natural, but Zahn's clone wars ideas sound more interesting than what Lucas gave us.
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    It's also worth mentioning that the Thrawn duology is a prerequisite for Outbound Flight/Survivor's Quest. Also, Survivor's Quest precedes Outbound Flight despite taking place later in the timeline.

    Specifically, these two novels spoil.
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    The Empire of the Hand/Chiss Ascendency and Mara Jade Skywalker.
    Last edited by Yana; 2017-12-29 at 05:25 PM.
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Are we eventually getting a read through of The Last Command? :-D

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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    I haven't forgotten. But I recently found out how badly Amazon treats its workers, so I'm looking into finding the book somewhere else. I will probably cave if it takes too much effort somewhere else.

  13. - Top - End - #643
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    It should be rather easy to jsut go to a well sorted book store in your area and order it there, no?

    I do that with all of my books (same reason for avoiding amazon), and even the fact that I want most of them in English (which is not the lingua Franca of my country) never delays them more than a few days.
    Last edited by GrayDeath; 2018-02-12 at 04:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    I haven't forgotten. But I recently found out how badly Amazon treats its workers, so I'm looking into finding the book somewhere else. I will probably cave if it takes too much effort somewhere else.
    AddAll.com turns up quite a few results for ISBN: 0553-56492-7. As of right now, the cheapest two on their list are not from Amazon.

    Also, if you buy used books from Amazon, most of the time you're supporting someone's local book store that uses Amazon as their digital storefront. If that book isn't fulfilled by Amazon, then you also aren't supporting Amazon's treatment of their warehouse workers.
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    where is the atropal? and does it have a listed LA?

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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    I used to work for one of those places. That particular one (which goes by a great many names, so is almost impossible to avoid) made an Amazon warehouse look like a workers paradise, and nearly killed me. I am not speaking figuratively.

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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    I haven't forgotten. But I recently found out how badly Amazon treats its workers, so I'm looking into finding the book somewhere else. I will probably cave if it takes too much effort somewhere else.
    I'd think most libraries would either have it or be able to request it for an inter-library loan.
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  17. - Top - End - #647
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Update: I finally got hold of The Last Command.. So I'll be starting this up again assuming the mods don't mind. May have to accelerate the pace a bit as this time it's a library book.

    Full disclosure: I have become aware that
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    Thrawn is killed by Noghri. Oh well.

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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    Full disclosure: I have become aware that
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    Thrawn is killed by Noghri. Oh well.
    Ah, sorry to hear that things got spoiled. In a series like this, where seeing the pieces fall into place in hindsight is a delight... knowing what's going to happen ahead of time sucks.
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Hooray for the continuation! Boo for the spoiler! I'm sorry dude.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    Update: I finally got hold of The Last Command.. So I'll be starting this up again assuming the mods don't mind. May have to accelerate the pace a bit as this time it's a library book.

    Full disclosure: I have become aware that
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    Thrawn is killed by Noghri. Oh well.
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    Thats rough, it was such a well done scene when it happens too. I literally gasped.
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    So I'll be starting this up again assuming the mods don't mind.
    Technically you're supposed to ask in advance, but I'll let it go this time.
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    Update: I finally got hold of The Last Command.. So I'll be starting this up again assuming the mods don't mind. May have to accelerate the pace a bit as this time it's a library book.

    Full disclosure: I have become aware that
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    Thrawn is killed by Noghri. Oh well.
    That...full on sucks my dude, cuz that scene is amazing when you just read it with no foreknowledge, as i somehow did.

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    Technically you're supposed to ask in advance, but I'll let it go this time.
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    That...full on sucks my dude, cuz that scene is amazing when you just read it with no foreknowledge, as i somehow did.



    Bro tier mod is bro tier.
    What he said. I'm looking forward to seeing this play out.

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    Thrawn is an EU character who actually stays dead; but he's still well-written. As you will see in later books, Thrawn the myth, Thrawn the Legend, is almost as deadly to the New Republic as the living Thrawn ever was.



    Respectfully,

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    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    What he said. I'm looking forward to seeing this play out.

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    Thrawn is an EU character who actually stays dead; but he's still well-written. As you will see in later books, Thrawn the myth, Thrawn the Legend, is almost as deadly to the New Republic as the living Thrawn ever was.



    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Sapphire Guard, on the off chance you go back through and read spoilers when you're done with the trilogy, still avoid that one; it somewhat spoils part of the Thrawn Duology, which IMO is amazing and you should absolutely read if you even half-liked the Thrawn trilogy. It's much better, I think, largely because of what Pendell said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"
    Quote Originally Posted by The Extinguisher View Post
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  25. - Top - End - #655
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Oh good. I was looking forward to you doing this...
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Indeed, you will enjoy it a lot, methinks, even ith the Shock Spoiler spoilered there is a lot of great stuff in this novel. :)
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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Technically you're supposed to ask in advance, but I'll let it go this time.
    Noted. Sorry.

    Sapphire Guard, on the off chance you go back through and read spoilers when you're done with the trilogy, still avoid that one; it somewhat spoils part of the Thrawn Duology, which IMO is amazing and you should absolutely read if you even half-liked the Thrawn trilogy. It's much better, I think, largely because of what Pendell said.
    I very nearly opened it thinking it was a response to my above spoiler,but then I decided not to just in case.

    The Last Command

    CH1: At the end of the last book, Thrawn successfully claimed most of the lost Katana Fleet for the Empire, and is crewing them with clones manufactured at his facility in Mount Tantiss. We open on the bridge of the Chimaera, naturally, in the kind of classic Thrawn Bridge Scene that barely needs to be described by now. Thrawn outlines a plan and corrects his subordinates, while Pellaeon's narration gushes about how much better he is than every other Imperial Officer ever.

    They're sounding off the ships for a co ordinated strike, and the Commander of the Judicator has to be pointedly reminded not to take revenge for the ISD lost to the Republic at the end of the last book.

    The plan is a series of diversionary feints to draw forces from a Republic base, then pretend to be attacking it to tie up resources, while the Chimaera goes after their true target, which is the Ukio system. Pellaeoin has to go co ordinate with C'Baoth, which he hates but does anyway.

    C'Baoth throws a few shots at Thrawn's racism superpower, but Pellaeon isn't convinced as it has worked so far. C'Baoth has been quietly undermining Thrawn for some time, and the younger officers are beginning to listen.

    C'Baoth kind of browses in Pellaeon's mind, then orders him to create a special clone made to order from one of the Emperor's trophies, then orders him to forget it. Pellaeon tries to resist but can't.

    An infiltration force under cloaks is going in under the shields, co-ordinated by C'Baoth as he can detect them through the Force. Pellaeon notices that his power is growing.

    Thrawn comes up on comms and asks C'Baoth, which he does while griping. The Chimaera fires on the Planetary Shield, is deflected...and the cloaked ships fire, pretending that the orbital shots penetrated. Neat trick.

    The planet surrenders rather than be bombarded, and the Imperials land. It occurs to Pellaeon that C'Baoth might have an easier time controlling the minds of clones than people. Then C'Baoth is distracted because Leia is at Filve, one of the diversionary assaults.

    The Falcon and Rogue Squadron are arrived on Filve, but like all Star Wars diplomatic missions, a massive battle has happened instead. They decide that a they won't be able to get on planet during this attack, so decide to leave instead.

    Notably, Leia believes it's possible to Clone techs and engineers using Spaarti cylinders, which is very bad news if true. The entire assault force comes after the Falcon, so they let themselves be chased to give the garrison some time and then jump to coordinates after alltering the transmission so the TIEs will be thrown off track.

    Leis senses C'Baoth, and doesn't like it. Han draws out the story of the Emperor's ghost attack from her and asks her to get checked out when they land.

    Thrawn and C'Baoth argue over who is more of a failure re recent events.

    Pellaeon reflects on the problems of cloning, accelerated rates lead to increased instability. Pellaeon speculates that Thrawn understands cloning better than 'the clonemasters' do. Thrawn and Pellaeon leaves, and he fails to remember his intention to tell Thrawn about C'Baoth's secret project.

    So, we're back. I'm kind of disappointed that Pellaeon can be mind tricked, but hope this betrayal actually comes to something.

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    Default Re: Reading Heir to the Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    We open on the bridge of the Chimaera, naturally, in the kind of classic Thrawn Bridge Scene that barely needs to be described by now.
    Every Original Trilogy film opens with a shot of an Imperial Star Destroyer. Every Thrawn Trilogy book opens on the bridge of an Imperial Star Destroyer. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    So, we're back. I'm kind of disappointed that Pellaeon can be mind tricked, but hope this betrayal actually comes to something.
    It's implied that what C'Baoth did to Pellaeon was not the regular mind-trick the Jedi use that works only on the weak-minded but something much more powerful, you'll undertand why as you progress further into the book.
    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    FANTASTIC! OotS-ish even in the punchline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    It's implied that what C'Baoth did to Pellaeon was not the regular mind-trick the Jedi use that works only on the weak-minded but something much more powerful, you'll undertand why as you progress further into the book.
    Doesn't have to be, though. Remember that he did a pretty fair job of manipulating Luke in the last book, and Luke is by no means weak-minded. It's possible that C'baoth is simply much better at the mental aspects of the Force than Obi-Wan was, and so can mind-trick people other Jedi can't.

    Not to mention, however good he was at mental manipulation before, Thrawn is exercising his talent by having him control crews of spacecraft at interplanetary distances. That can't help but improve C'baoth's skills.

    One of the other things about Thrawn is the use he makes of existing technology in Star Wars without reference to superweapons. I think that's part of what makes him such a threat.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Last edited by pendell; 2018-06-03 at 11:19 AM.
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  30. - Top - End - #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
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    Doesn't have to be, though. Remember that he did a pretty fair job of manipulating Luke in the last book, and Luke is by no means weak-minded. It's possible that C'baoth is simply much better at the mental aspects of the Force than Obi-Wan was, and so can mind-trick people other Jedi can't.

    Not to mention, however good he was at mental manipulation before, Thrawn is exercising his talent by having him control crews of spacecraft at interplanetary distances. That can't help but improve C'baoth's skills.

    One of the other things about Thrawn is the use he makes of existing technology in Star Wars without reference to superweapons. I think that's part of what makes him such a threat.

    Respectfully,


    Brian P.
    You should maybe spoiler-tag that part about the last book for Sapphire Guard's sake.

    Different technique or more powerfuluse of the same doesn't matter, it was different enough from what Obi-Wan did that succombing to it doesn't make Pellaeon "weak-minded".
    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    FANTASTIC! OotS-ish even in the punchline.
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    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law


    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    For people who say "they're just words, toughen up," y'all seem to have very strong reactions to a bunch of words on a forum and webcomic.

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