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Thread: Reading Heir to the Empire
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2017-12-21, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Spoiler: Conqueror's trilogyI really loved how that whole thing was a massive misunderstanding, and that the Zhirrzh's entire empire is built off that misunderstanding. I also loved how both factions are terrified of the other's technology without realizing how afraid the other race is.
Sapphire Guard, in really hoping when you finish the series you'll do the Thrawn Duology. I think it's vastly better than the trilogy, and I'd love to hear your take on it.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2017-12-21, 07:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
The duology is probably my favorite set from the EU. I still get the feels when I read a certain moment.
Spoiler: DuologyHang on, I'll come with you.R.I.P. Wrecan, he was a true organizer and a gentleman.
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2017-12-21, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
If nothing else, that duology spends some of its time agreeing with SG's criticisms of this trilogy, although that may mainly be in the back half of it.
Really though, glad you're enjoying it. I think it's nonspoilers now that this trilogy doesn't really contain one singular "superweapon" as is standard for Star Wars. Instead what it has is disparate pieces and tools, and the fun is guessing how Thrawn is going to combine them. Delta Source, the New Republic's structural problems, cloaking devices, C'Baoth, the Noghri, the Katana fleet, and now clones (which they'll explain the details of in the next book, don't worry). It's an endless combinatorial explosion of wacky strategies.Last edited by Nerd-o-rama; 2017-12-21 at 08:49 PM.
Spoiler
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2017-12-22, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Sapphire Guard, in really hoping when you finish the series you'll do the Thrawn Duology. I think it's vastly better than the trilogy, and I'd love to hear your take on it.
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2017-12-23, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Sadly, Outbound Flight is very nticably a retcon novel.
Its not horible, but much much worse than both trilogy and Doulogy. The only "Good" Part in my opinion is ... spoilery. ;)A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”
01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110
Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”
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2017-12-23, 02:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
By the time of the Thrawn Duology, Thrawn isn't the leader that he used to be and has a lot of limitations.
Spoiler
(and the issues with that are significant for both books). I don't think that spoils too much either now or then.
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2017-12-23, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2017-12-23, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
I think let's just let SG finish the trilogy so we can discuss things more openly before arguing for the duology as a rec.
Spoiler
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2017-12-29, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Outbound Flight has a sequel, Survivor's Quest, that is worth a read. It finishes up a plot-line or two introduced in places.
Since the Thrawn Trilogy was written before any prequels, Zahn would have needed to make some retcons, especially since the prequels effectively wrecked nearly everything that had come out prior to Episode 1. Each prequel ended up adding more and more required retcons. Lucas didn't have any of the prequel story worked out really, so that was a bit natural, but Zahn's clone wars ideas sound more interesting than what Lucas gave us.Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
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2017-12-29, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
It's also worth mentioning that the Thrawn duology is a prerequisite for Outbound Flight/Survivor's Quest. Also, Survivor's Quest precedes Outbound Flight despite taking place later in the timeline.
Specifically, these two novels spoil.SpoilerThe Empire of the Hand/Chiss Ascendency and Mara Jade Skywalker.Last edited by Yana; 2017-12-29 at 05:25 PM.
R.I.P. Wrecan, he was a true organizer and a gentleman.
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2018-02-11, 10:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Are we eventually getting a read through of The Last Command? :-D
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2018-02-12, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
I haven't forgotten. But I recently found out how badly Amazon treats its workers, so I'm looking into finding the book somewhere else. I will probably cave if it takes too much effort somewhere else.
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2018-02-12, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
It should be rather easy to jsut go to a well sorted book store in your area and order it there, no?
I do that with all of my books (same reason for avoiding amazon), and even the fact that I want most of them in English (which is not the lingua Franca of my country) never delays them more than a few days.Last edited by GrayDeath; 2018-02-12 at 04:03 PM.
A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”
01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110
Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”
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2018-02-12, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
AddAll.com turns up quite a few results for ISBN: 0553-56492-7. As of right now, the cheapest two on their list are not from Amazon.
Also, if you buy used books from Amazon, most of the time you're supporting someone's local book store that uses Amazon as their digital storefront. If that book isn't fulfilled by Amazon, then you also aren't supporting Amazon's treatment of their warehouse workers.
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2018-02-12, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
I used to work for one of those places. That particular one (which goes by a great many names, so is almost impossible to avoid) made an Amazon warehouse look like a workers paradise, and nearly killed me. I am not speaking figuratively.
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2018-02-19, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2018-05-31, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Update: I finally got hold of The Last Command.. So I'll be starting this up again assuming the mods don't mind. May have to accelerate the pace a bit as this time it's a library book.
Full disclosure: I have become aware thatSpoilerThrawn is killed by Noghri. Oh well.
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2018-05-31, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep.~ That's your horoscope for today.
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2018-05-31, 06:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Hooray for the continuation! Boo for the spoiler! I'm sorry dude.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2018-05-31, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
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2018-05-31, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
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2018-05-31, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2018-05-31 at 09:24 PM.
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2018-06-01, 08:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
What he said. I'm looking forward to seeing this play out.
Spoiler
Thrawn is an EU character who actually stays dead; but he's still well-written. As you will see in later books, Thrawn the myth, Thrawn the Legend, is almost as deadly to the New Republic as the living Thrawn ever was.
Respectfully,
Brian P."Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
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2018-06-01, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Sapphire Guard, on the off chance you go back through and read spoilers when you're done with the trilogy, still avoid that one; it somewhat spoils part of the Thrawn Duology, which IMO is amazing and you should absolutely read if you even half-liked the Thrawn trilogy. It's much better, I think, largely because of what Pendell said.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2018-06-01, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Oh good. I was looking forward to you doing this...
Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.
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2018-06-01, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Indeed, you will enjoy it a lot, methinks, even ith the Shock Spoiler spoilered there is a lot of great stuff in this novel. :)
A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”
01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110
Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”
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2018-06-02, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Technically you're supposed to ask in advance, but I'll let it go this time.
Sapphire Guard, on the off chance you go back through and read spoilers when you're done with the trilogy, still avoid that one; it somewhat spoils part of the Thrawn Duology, which IMO is amazing and you should absolutely read if you even half-liked the Thrawn trilogy. It's much better, I think, largely because of what Pendell said.
The Last Command
CH1: At the end of the last book, Thrawn successfully claimed most of the lost Katana Fleet for the Empire, and is crewing them with clones manufactured at his facility in Mount Tantiss. We open on the bridge of the Chimaera, naturally, in the kind of classic Thrawn Bridge Scene that barely needs to be described by now. Thrawn outlines a plan and corrects his subordinates, while Pellaeon's narration gushes about how much better he is than every other Imperial Officer ever.
They're sounding off the ships for a co ordinated strike, and the Commander of the Judicator has to be pointedly reminded not to take revenge for the ISD lost to the Republic at the end of the last book.
The plan is a series of diversionary feints to draw forces from a Republic base, then pretend to be attacking it to tie up resources, while the Chimaera goes after their true target, which is the Ukio system. Pellaeoin has to go co ordinate with C'Baoth, which he hates but does anyway.
C'Baoth throws a few shots at Thrawn's racism superpower, but Pellaeon isn't convinced as it has worked so far. C'Baoth has been quietly undermining Thrawn for some time, and the younger officers are beginning to listen.
C'Baoth kind of browses in Pellaeon's mind, then orders him to create a special clone made to order from one of the Emperor's trophies, then orders him to forget it. Pellaeon tries to resist but can't.
An infiltration force under cloaks is going in under the shields, co-ordinated by C'Baoth as he can detect them through the Force. Pellaeon notices that his power is growing.
Thrawn comes up on comms and asks C'Baoth, which he does while griping. The Chimaera fires on the Planetary Shield, is deflected...and the cloaked ships fire, pretending that the orbital shots penetrated. Neat trick.
The planet surrenders rather than be bombarded, and the Imperials land. It occurs to Pellaeon that C'Baoth might have an easier time controlling the minds of clones than people. Then C'Baoth is distracted because Leia is at Filve, one of the diversionary assaults.
The Falcon and Rogue Squadron are arrived on Filve, but like all Star Wars diplomatic missions, a massive battle has happened instead. They decide that a they won't be able to get on planet during this attack, so decide to leave instead.
Notably, Leia believes it's possible to Clone techs and engineers using Spaarti cylinders, which is very bad news if true. The entire assault force comes after the Falcon, so they let themselves be chased to give the garrison some time and then jump to coordinates after alltering the transmission so the TIEs will be thrown off track.
Leis senses C'Baoth, and doesn't like it. Han draws out the story of the Emperor's ghost attack from her and asks her to get checked out when they land.
Thrawn and C'Baoth argue over who is more of a failure re recent events.
Pellaeon reflects on the problems of cloning, accelerated rates lead to increased instability. Pellaeon speculates that Thrawn understands cloning better than 'the clonemasters' do. Thrawn and Pellaeon leaves, and he fails to remember his intention to tell Thrawn about C'Baoth's secret project.
So, we're back. I'm kind of disappointed that Pellaeon can be mind tricked, but hope this betrayal actually comes to something.
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2018-06-02, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Every Original Trilogy film opens with a shot of an Imperial Star Destroyer. Every Thrawn Trilogy book opens on the bridge of an Imperial Star Destroyer. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!
It's implied that what C'Baoth did to Pellaeon was not the regular mind-trick the Jedi use that works only on the weak-minded but something much more powerful, you'll undertand why as you progress further into the book.Forum Wisdom
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2018-06-03, 11:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Doesn't have to be, though. Remember that he did a pretty fair job of manipulating Luke in the last book, and Luke is by no means weak-minded. It's possible that C'baoth is simply much better at the mental aspects of the Force than Obi-Wan was, and so can mind-trick people other Jedi can't.
Not to mention, however good he was at mental manipulation before, Thrawn is exercising his talent by having him control crews of spacecraft at interplanetary distances. That can't help but improve C'baoth's skills.
One of the other things about Thrawn is the use he makes of existing technology in Star Wars without reference to superweapons. I think that's part of what makes him such a threat.
Respectfully,
Brian P.Last edited by pendell; 2018-06-03 at 11:19 AM.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
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2018-06-03, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Forum Wisdom
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