Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXII: I Got 99 Guardsmen and Morale Killed One.

[boomwolf]

That army has some though to crack units at range, but will quickly crumble to melee, or DS tactics (or both, some armies can pull out both.)

Heldrakes will be the bane of you.
Anything that can reliably DS and charge will also be an issue.
Auto-hitting things to circle around your BS reduction (ironically, your own list XD)
Anything that can charge from large distances, especially if it has fly to knock down your hemlocks.


Its not bad, not bad at all. but its taking a beating by some of the already popular things.

[Cheesegear]

Its not bad, not bad at all. but its taking a beating by some of the already popular things.

Ultramarines; Guilliman and massive amounts of ranged firepower (Scouts, Devastators, Hellblasters, Razorbacks, Stormravens).
Raven Guard; Ranged firepower; Long range and mid-range (Scouts, Devastators, Hellblasters, Aggressors).
Blood Angels; SUA spam with Melee units.
Grey Knights; SUA spam with Ranged units.

Codex AM; Massive hordes. Leman Russes. Psyker spam. SUA spam. AM are so good they can practically run anything they want - in any combination - and still win.
Sisters; Grey Knights but also not quite as good, but also sometimes better. Grey Knights have an extremely strong opening game, but quickly lose steam as only one unit can manifest Gate of Infinity per turn. Sisters hopefully will run around in their Rhinos.
AdMech; Infantry spam. Often accompanied by Imperial Knights.

Chaos Space Marines; SUA spam with Melee units. And Magnus or Mortarion.
Daemons; Brimstone spam.
Death Guard; Mortarion (and Epidemius, depending on meta's rules). Typhus and Poxwalker spam.

Orks; Boyz spam.

Drukhari/Ynnari; Boats.
Harlequins/Ynnari; Different boats.
Craftworld; TBD. But currently Shuriken spam.

Tyranids; Massive hordes and SUA spam.
Genestealer Cults; Medium 'hordes', and SUA spam.

+ All armies with cheap Psykers, are taking them in great numbers.

[Forum Explorer]

So in anticipation of the Codex, I've scrapped together an Eldar list at the current point values, just to play with an idea:

Spoiler: Three-Part Harmony

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3x Hemlock Wraithfighters w/ Conceal/Reveal
1x Autarch with Mandiblasters, two Avenger Shuriken Catapults, and Shuriken Pistol
1x Farseer with Singing Spear, Guide, and Doom
4x 10-man Shadow Spectre Units with Exarch with Prism Rifle
1x Wave Serpent with Twin Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon, Crystal Targeting Array, Spirits Stones, Star Engines, and Vectored Engines

The idea is to have the Wraithfighters flying in a triangular formation (hence the army name), alternating between two casting conceal over the Spectre Units (and Farseer and Autarch since they'll be with them), and one casting Reveal on whatever needs to be revealed, while the Spectres sit at 12+" using the Altaioc trait, Conceal, and holo-fields to put themselves at -3 to hit. The Wave Serpent is just for heavy fire support, and getting the Autarch and Farseer (and first squad of Spectres) into position during the first round of the game.

You can't double cast powers. Also Forge World.

[Wardog]

Is it practicable to use the "Space Marine Plasma Guns" or "Space Marine Meltaguns" kits on Guardsmen?

I'm guessing it would be fairly easy with Catachans (just snip off the SM hand and attach them the same way you would with standard Catachan weapons, with a bit of extra filing/green stuff if necessary).

Or are they the wrong size or shape for that to work?

[Ionbound]

Ultramarines; Guilliman and massive amounts of ranged firepower (Scouts, Devastators, Hellblasters, Razorbacks, Stormravens).
Raven Guard; Ranged firepower; Long range and mid-range (Scouts, Devastators, Hellblasters, Aggressors).
Blood Angels; SUA spam with Melee units.
Grey Knights; SUA spam with Ranged units.

Codex AM; Massive hordes. Leman Russes. Psyker spam. SUA spam. AM are so good they can practically run anything they want - in any combination - and still win.
Sisters; Grey Knights but also not quite as good, but also sometimes better. Grey Knights have an extremely strong opening game, but quickly lose steam as only one unit can manifest Gate of Infinity per turn. Sisters hopefully will run around in their Rhinos.
AdMech; Infantry spam. Often accompanied by Imperial Knights.

Chaos Space Marines; SUA spam with Melee units. And Magnus or Mortarion.
Daemons; Brimstone spam.
Death Guard; Mortarion (and Epidemius, depending on meta's rules). Typhus and Poxwalker spam.

Orks; Boyz spam.

Drukhari/Ynnari; Boats.
Harlequins/Ynnari; Different boats.
Craftworld; TBD. But currently Shuriken spam.

Tyranids; Massive hordes and SUA spam.
Genestealer Cults; Medium 'hordes', and SUA spam.

+ All armies with cheap Psykers, are taking them in great numbers.

Eh? Giving everyone -3 to hit from 12"+ makes me more or less immune to conscript/infantry blobs. Anything that hits on a 4+ just can't hit me, and 3+s (Marines, termies, and such) only hit on 6s, and even 2+ folks like Guilliman hit on 5s. That looks like most of your issues, though I will acknowledge that it's a bit weak to auto-hits like Smite and flamers.

EDIT: Also, what are SUAs?

You can't double cast powers. Also Forge World.

Actually, you can. The rule is "A Psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once in a turn." Unless there's an FAQ overruling that that I'm not aware of, that just keeps me from, say, manifesting Doom twice with my Farseer, not separate psykers casting the same ability.

[Forum Explorer]

Eh? Giving everyone -3 to hit from 12"+ makes me more or less immune to conscript/infantry blobs. Anything that hits on a 4+ just can't hit me, and 3+s (Marines, termies, and such) only hit on 6s, and even 2+ folks like Guilliman hit on 5s. That looks like most of your issues, though I will acknowledge that it's a bit weak to auto-hits like Smite and flamers.

EDIT: Also, what are SUAs?



Actually, you can. The rule is "A Psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once in a turn." Unless there's an FAQ overruling that that I'm not aware of, that just keeps me from, say, manifesting Doom twice with my Farseer, not separate psykers casting the same ability.

I don't know what SUA actually stands for but it refers to units showing up from reserves anywhere on the board. Basically Deep Strike.


Page 215 under Matched Play rules.
Psychic Focus: With the exception of Smite, each power can only be attempted once per turn, rather once per psyker per turn.

[DaedalusMkV]

Actually, you can. The rule is "A Psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once in a turn." Unless there's an FAQ overruling that that I'm not aware of, that just keeps me from, say, manifesting Doom twice with my Farseer, not separate psykers casting the same ability.

Look in the Matched Play rules (IE, the rules everyone plays by because otherwise things get messy), under Matched Play Mission Rules, page 215. There are several important rules there, of which the limitation on repeating Psychic Powers (more to prevent "My entire army charges turn 1" Chaos than anything, I expect) is one.

[Turalisj]

Look in the Matched Play rules (IE, the rules everyone plays by because otherwise things get messy), under Matched Play Mission Rules, page 215. There are several important rules there, of which the limitation on repeating Psychic Powers (more to prevent "My entire army charges turn 1" Chaos than anything, I expect) is one.

Vortex of doom on your entire army.

[Ionbound]

Ah, okay. I was looking at the rules for the Psychic phase. So do Conceal and Reveal count as the same power, then?

[Forum Explorer]

Ah, okay. I was looking at the rules for the Psychic phase. So do Conceal and Reveal count as the same power, then?

Oddly no. You can cast both Conceal and Reveal in the same turn, even though it's technically the same power just with different effects. But you can't do Conceal or Reveal twice.

[9mm]

Is it practicable to use the "Space Marine Plasma Guns" or "Space Marine Meltaguns" kits on Guardsmen?

I'm guessing it would be fairly easy with Catachans (just snip off the SM hand and attach them the same way you would with standard Catachan weapons, with a bit of extra filing/green stuff if necessary).

Or are they the wrong size or shape for that to work?

I have slapped a space marine rocket launcher onto a Catachan and painted the armor flesh tone and it blended in fine, so I bet most special weapons will work fine, alternatively: try a third party bit maker like Mad Robot

[Renegade Paladin]

Is it practicable to use the "Space Marine Plasma Guns" or "Space Marine Meltaguns" kits on Guardsmen?

I'm guessing it would be fairly easy with Catachans (just snip off the SM hand and attach them the same way you would with standard Catachan weapons, with a bit of extra filing/green stuff if necessary).

Or are they the wrong size or shape for that to work?

They work fine. I slapped the meltaguns on a bunch of Cadians to make veterans years ago and the only issue is that metal guns on plastic models are really front-heavy and like to tip.

[DataNinja]

EDIT: Also, what are SUAs?

I may be entirely wrong on this, but given context, I believe SUA stands for "Set Up Anywhere". I've never actually seen it in full, though, so that's just my inference.

[Voidhawk]

I may be entirely wrong on this, but given context, I believe SUA stands for "Set Up Anywhere". I've never actually seen it in full, though, so that's just my inference.

You are correct. It's most often SUA-9", but there are some exceptions.

[Cheesegear]

I don't know what SUA actually stands for but it refers to units showing up from reserves anywhere on the board. Basically Deep Strike.

I like how you got real close; 'Showing Up from reserves Anywhere'. But also pretended to not know. It's not Deep Strike. Scouts dont Deep Strike, neither does anything using the 1 CP Stratagem. Neither do Wolf Scouts or Tallarn IG. Genestealer Cults definitely don't.

The phrases 'Deep Strike', 'Infiltrate' and 'Outflank' only mean something to people who played pre-8th Ed.

[Turalisj]

Still got two boxes of Skitarii to put together.... Wondering if I should do 30 rangers, 30 vanguard and use the Stygies doctrine or do 50 vanguard and 10 rangers and use graia....

[Forum Explorer]

I like how you got real close; 'Showing Up from reserves Anywhere'. But also pretended to not know. It's not Deep Strike. Scouts dont Deep Strike, neither does anything using the 1 CP Stratagem. Neither do Wolf Scouts or Tallarn IG. Genestealer Cults definitely don't.

The phrases 'Deep Strike', 'Infiltrate' and 'Outflank' only mean something to people who played pre-8th Ed.

It's not like I didn't know what it meant, I just didn't know what it stood for.

Yeah, it's not perfectly accurate to call it Deep Strike or ect. That's why I described it first.

[Cheesegear]

It's not like I didn't know what it meant, I just didn't know what it stood for.

To which you then guessed pretty much the exact right answer.

Winner (Overall) of a tournament on the weekend...

Spoiler: Chaos Marines

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Alpha Legion, Battalion The best one.
Dark Apostle
Exalted Champion

Cultists (x40)
Cultists (x40)
Cultists (x40)
Cultists (x40)

Berzerkers (x18)

Kharybdis Assault Claw - Forge World, basically irreplaceable.

Black Legion, Supreme Command 'Cause Abaddon.
(W) Abaddon the Despoiler
Malefic Lord
Malefic Lord
Malefic Lord
Malefic Lord More FW, also irreplaceable.

Death Guard, Patrol See below.
Typhus
Poxwalkers (x10)

Because the army has a Death Guard Detachment, it's able to use Death Guard Stratagems. All those Cultists are Poxwalkers, now.

Tell me again how Warhammer World's (Heat 1) results are a lulz grenade against the 'over-reaction' to hordes.
User of the list also says that it wasn't fun to play - if that means anything to people.

[boomwolf]

The Supreme command can't be black legion, as the malefic lords are not black legion.

Also, not sold on spending the effort to get the DG stratagem

[Cheesegear]

The Supreme command can't be black legion, as the malefic lords are not black legion.

You're correct. Turns out I also wrote it down wrong, and I assumed it was Black Legion 'cause Abaddon is in it.
Turns out it's just regular <Chaos>.

Also, not sold on spending the effort to get the DG stratagem

Well, you're wrong. Results speak for themselves, and everyone has been saying how good Poxwalkers are from the start. Their only problem being that they come out of the Death Guard book, which isn't very good. Due to bad wording on certain Stratagems (the AM Cover Save one springs to mind), if you could take Poxwalkers, except not have them out of the DG book, that would be really, really good...Oh, the Stratagem is badly worded? Fantastic. Oh, and you get Typhus anyway.

[Forum Explorer]

Was that a local tournament?

Funnily enough I don't think the problem is with Poxwalkers (at least not in that list) or with the Dead Walk stratagem. It's Cloud of Flies that lets that list work, else you just shoot the 10 Poxwalkers first. Cloud of Flies is way too cheap at 1 CP.

[Cheesegear]

Was that a local tournament?

City tournament, nowhere near me.

It's Cloud of Flies that lets that list work, else you just shoot the 10 Poxwalkers first. Cloud of Flies is way too cheap at 1 CP.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Dead Walk and Cloud are both 1 CP each. The list has 9 to play with.

[Turalisj]

I'll let you know more tournament results Cheese, a friend's friend is borrowing his World Eater army.

At this point, I'm ready to just say screw it and play Thousand Sons. Except the Tsons list I have planned isn't spam, so it'll probably fail.

[LeSwordfish]

Summary Execution's been nerfed into only a re-roll. Doesn't fix any of the structural problems with hordes, instead merely kicking Guard Conscript Hordes as a single build in the sack.

[bluntpencil]

Well, Send in the Next Wave now sucks, too.

Conscripts are no longer a thing, what with Commissars sucking, and that getting tossed out, it seems.

[Cheesegear]

Summary Execution's been nerfed into only a re-roll. Doesn't fix any of the structural problems with hordes, instead merely kicking Guard Conscript Hordes as a single build in the sack.

Send in the Next Wave! costing points is also real bad.

"You have to nerf Commissars."
"You have to nerf Commissars."
"You have to nerf Commissars."
We nerfed Conscripts you guys, is that what you wanted!?
"You have to nerf Commissars."
Also we actually kind of made Conscripts better, oops. Since it turns out Orders wasn't the reason people were taking them.
"No [poop]. You have to nerf Commissars."

Infantry are a joke, now. Unless they're Heavy Weapon Teams or Special Weapons units. MTs can SUA and Leman Russes do the rest.

[Yaktan]

Regular infantry squads are still strong hordes... They are just on par with all the other hordes instead of way better like conscript/commissar was.

[Blackhawk748]

Summary Execution's been nerfed into only a re-roll. Doesn't fix any of the structural problems with hordes, instead merely kicking Guard Conscript Hordes as a single build in the sack.

My god, that took how long? And of course they over did it cuz they cant go from OP to decent, they have to go from Op to Crapsack.

Regular infantry squads are still strong hordes... They are just on par with all the other hordes instead of way better like conscript/commissar was.

No, all hordes (except cultists, cuz they're a gimmick for Chaos, lets be real) have a way to mitigate Battle Shock. Guard no longer have theirs.

[Yaktan]

Its called only having 10 guys in a squad. And being 2/3 the price or otherwise way better than any other horde.

[Blackhawk748]

Its called only having 10 guys in a squad. And being 2/3 the price or otherwise way better than any other horde.

Have fun taking objectives with your 10 man squad.