Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXII: I Got 99 Guardsmen and Morale Killed One.

[Cheesegear]

Wait, rangers are good?

There are two aspects to playing Objectives; Holding Objectives in your half of the board, and taking the Objectives in the opponent's half.

Rangers have a 30" range on their guns, and they have access to Sniper weapons with the ability to ignore Cover bonuses, effectively giving them AP -3 against models that generally receive Cover saves (e.g; Characters). They have no reason to move, ever. I mean, there aren't a lot of reasons to move a unit that's standing on an Objective, but with natural 30" range, and Objective Secured (when someone SUAs with a 5-man, you're still cheap enough that you can run <7 and not feel bad).

But, no. You might have missed one of the finer things, that Blackhawk already pointed out; Vanguard and Rangers are good. You shouldn't have one without the other.

[Closet_Skeleton]

So, now that the Astra Militarum Codex has come out, and after much consternation, I've come up with a list that I am happy to call my own.

Spoiler: Lapan Nightwolves 1st Regiment

Show

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [26 PL, 482pts] ++

+ Uncategorised +

Regiment: Tallarn

+ Lord of War +

Shadowsword [26 PL, 482pts]: Heavy Stubber, Hunter-killer missile, Twin heavy bolter
. 2 Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponsons: 2x Lascannon, 2x Twin heavy bolter

++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [15 PL, 323pts] ++

+ Uncategorised +

Regiment: Millitarum Tempestus

+ HQ +

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Astra Militarum Orders, Chainsword, Plasma Pistol, THE TACTICAL AUTO-RELIQUARY OF TYBERIUS

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Astra Militarum Orders, Chainsword, Plasma Pistol

+ Troops +

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 3x Scion: 3x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

+ Elites +

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 84pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 84pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [66 PL, 1195pts] ++

+ Uncategorised +

Regiment: Tallarn

+ HQ +

Company Commander [3 PL, 35pts]: Astra Militarum Orders, Chainsword, KUROV’S AQUILA, Plasma pistol

Company Commander [3 PL, 35pts]: Astra Militarum Orders, Chainsword, Plasma pistol-WARLORD TRAIT: Grand Strategist

Company Commander [3 PL, 35pts]: Astra Militarum Orders, Chainsword, Plasma pistol, THE LAURELS OF COMMAND

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 46pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 50pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 50pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

+ Elites +

Command Squad [2 PL, 76pts]
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Command Squad [2 PL, 76pts]
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Command Squad [2 PL, 76pts]
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Officer of the Fleet [2 PL, 25pts]

Ratlings [2 PL, 35pts]
. 5x Ratling: 5x Sniper Rifle

+ Flyer +

Valkyries [16 PL, 336pts]
. Valkyrie: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Lascannon
. . 2x Heavy Bolters: 2x Heavy bolter
. Valkyrie: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Lascannon
. . 2x Heavy Bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

Vulture Gunship [22 PL, 320pts]
. Vulture Gunship: Heavy bolter, Twin Punisher Gatling Cannons
. Vulture Gunship: Heavy bolter, Twin Punisher Gatling Cannons

++ Total: [107 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

What do people think? I know it's not super competitive, but I'm just curious. The idea is to use the Tallarn strategem to put my Shadowsword and a command squad+whatever in ambush, then kinda just be mobile at my opponent with Scions and Command Squads, while troopers hold down objectives, and eventually pop the Shadowsword out at an awkward angle for my opponent to deal with.

Its neither competative nor fluffy, so its in an odd place of basically being optimised for the index but not the codex.

I've been winning 2/3 of 8th ed games by taking whatever I want (black legion csm and possessed, msu tyranids), so optimising seems pointless to me at this stage.

My tournament list.

Spoiler

Show

Super Heavy Auxilery Daemon grim reaper fairy king of doom detachment
Mortarion

Brigade detatchment

HQ
Plague caster
relic staff

Chaos Lord
balesword, combi-melta

Troops
7 Plague marines
2 plasma guns, plasma gun and power fist champion

7 Plague marines
2 blight launchers, plasma gun champion

7 Plague marines
2 plague spewers, power fist and plasma pistol champion, icon of despair, 2 pairs of plague knivesrusty shivs, 2 flails of corruption

Elites
5 Blightlord terminators
3 bubotic axes, 1 balesword, 3 combi-bolters, flail of corruption, plague spewer

5 Blightlord terminators
3 bubotic axes, 1 balesword, 3 combi-bolters, flail of corruption, plague spewer

dedicated transports
rhino
havok launcher, 2 combi-bolters
rhino
havok launcher, 2 combi-bolters
rhino
havok launcher, 1 combi-bolter, 1 combi-flamer

Played two games so far against Raven Guard (brigade, ancient with relic banner, shrike, regular captain, lieutenant, 6 scouts, 3 scout bikers, 3 devastators, aggressors, vanguard vets). Won the first due to Mortarion not being targeted because the player wanted to see if he should ignore him like Magnus (Mortarion melted all the characters, the devastators and the agressors by himself, won the second due to Secure and Control being a terrible mission where first blood is far too important and charging blightlords shutting down his devastators on turn 1 after he set up all his bubble wrap to delay Mortarion.

Not going to bother tweaking the list under a 'the best list is the one you know how to use' mantra. Which seeing as how I won't get many games in before the tournament means I'm probably going to get smashed.

[LeSwordfish]

So, now that the Astra Militarum Codex has come out, and after much consternation, I've come up with a list that I am happy to call my own.

Spoiler: Lapan Nightwolves 1st Regiment

Show

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [26 PL, 482pts] ++

+ Lord of War +
Shadowsword [26 PL, 482pts]: Heavy Stubber, Hunter-killer missile, Twin heavy bolter
. 2 Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponsons: 2x Lascannon, 2x Twin heavy bolter

I'm... uncomfortable to see more than half your points tied up in five models. But okay.

++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [15 PL, 323pts] ++
Regiment: Millitarum Tempestus

+ HQ +
Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Astra Militarum Orders, Chainsword, Plasma Pistol, THE TACTICAL AUTO-RELIQUARY OF TYBERIUS
Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Astra Militarum Orders, Chainsword, Plasma Pistol

+ Troops +
Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 65pts]: Meltagun, Plasma Pistol

+ Elites +
Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 84pts]: 4x Meltagun
Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 84pts]: 4x Meltagun

Swap these for Scions and you could get another 3CP for the cost of only 2 meltaguns each.

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [66 PL, 1195pts] ++
Regiment: Tallarn

+ HQ +
Company Commander [3 PL, 35pts]: Astra Militarum Orders, Chainsword, KUROV’S AQUILA, Plasma pistol
Company Commander [3 PL, 35pts]: Astra Militarum Orders, Chainsword, Plasma pistol-WARLORD TRAIT: Grand Strategist
Company Commander [3 PL, 35pts]: Astra Militarum Orders, Chainsword, Plasma pistol, THE LAURELS OF COMMAND

I'm not sure why all these people have plasma pistols, but okay. Also, you can only have one Relic without spending a strategem. You don't need to choose your relic now - instead, you can pick it at the start of the game.

+ Troops +
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 46pts]: Vox
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 50pts]: Vox, Plasma Pistol
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 50pts]: Vox, Plasma Pistol

Why plasma pistols and not plasma guns? These guys are your only real option for holding or taking objectives, and in 2000 points you've only got thirty-five of them.

+ Elites +
Command Squad [2 PL, 76pts]: 4x Plasma Gun
Command Squad [2 PL, 76pts]: 4x Plasma Gun
Command Squad [2 PL, 76pts]: 4x Plasma Gun

You know you have four flyers and a super-heavy, right? They can handle fighting the big stuff. You could have nearly five infantry squads for the cost of these three squads - which is fifty men, not fourteen. Save some points elsewhere and they could carry guns too. Alternatively, why not more Scions? For a similar cost, they have better BS and Save.

Officer of the Fleet [2 PL, 25pts]
Ratlings [2 PL, 35pts]

+ Flyer +
Valkyries [16 PL, 336pts] 2x Valkyries, 2x Heavy Bolter
Vulture Gunship [22 PL, 320pts] 2x Vultures, 2x Gatling Punisher Cannons

++ Total: [107 PL, 2000pts] ++

What do people think? I know it's not super competitive, but I'm just curious. The idea is to use the Tallarn strategem to put my Shadowsword and a command squad+whatever in ambush, then kinda just be mobile at my opponent with Scions and Command Squads, while troopers hold down objectives, and eventually pop the Shadowsword out at an awkward angle for my opponent to deal with.

Comments in Red. It looks like a fun list, but a good rule of listbuilding is "boys before toys" and if you're taking a Shadowsword and four flyers, you've got a lot of "toys" to make up for with "boys" - or girls, as the case may be.

[Voidhawk]

Wait, rangers are good?

Rangers are great. I've done the mathhammer for a variety of situations, and here's the list of when Vanguard are better than Rangers:

- When you want to Advance and fire.
- When your targets are between 18" and 15" away.
- When your targets are 18" or less away, and have exactly T5 and an even number of wounds. Odd number of wounds or T6+? Rangers are better.

In all other situations Rangers are as good or better than Vanguard (including almost everything at 15" or less range), while being cheaper. Getting -1 AP on a 6-to-wound is just great. Don't get me wrong, Vanguard are still good because the first 2 cases basically read "taking midfield first". And they have equal effectiveness with Rangers at 15" or less against T3 5+. But in a Marine-meta of T4 3+, Rangers are better all the time.

That's what I thought. A unit of 5 rangers, three of them with arquebii, seems to be the best setup to me....

You get two special weapons for the first 5, and another one if you buy them up to 10. So either you want 10-with-3, or more likely two squads of 5-with-2.

[9mm]

Next codex is Craftworld Eldar.

[Turalisj]

Rangers are great. I've done the mathhammer for a variety of situations, and here's the list of when Vanguard are better than Rangers:

- When you want to Advance and fire.
- When your targets are between 18" and 15" away.
- When your targets are 18" or less away, and have exactly T5 and an even number of wounds. Odd number of wounds or T6+? Rangers are better.

In all other situations Rangers are as good or better than Vanguard (including almost everything at 15" or less range), while being cheaper. Getting -1 AP on a 6-to-wound is just great. Don't get me wrong, Vanguard are still good because the first 2 cases basically read "taking midfield first". And they have equal effectiveness with Rangers at 15" or less against T3 5+. But in a Marine-meta of T4 3+, Rangers are better all the time.

You get two special weapons for the first 5, and another one if you buy them up to 10. So either you want 10-with-3, or more likely two squads of 5-with-2.

Well, my initial plan was something like 50 vanguard, all with omnispex and plasma, and 10 rangers with three arquebii.... might change that up slightly.

[druid91]

Well, my initial plan was something like 50 vanguard, all with omnispex and plasma, and 10 rangers with three arquebii.... might change that up slightly.

Why Omnispex? Cover is more or less negligible most of the time. And Omnispex takes a +1 from you when you use doctrina imperitives.

Also, anyone who has imperial Armor want to tell me how the Arvus lighter compares to the chimera?

[Voidhawk]

Why Omnispex? Cover is more or less negligible most of the time. And Omnispex takes a +1 from you when you use doctrina imperitives.

Cover may not be the most-important-thing-evar any more, but it certainly still exists. And if you plan to hurt anything standing in it using basic AP0 weapons, knocking a point off their saves really helps. Meanwhile, the extra +1 from the Doctrina's will only matter if something is giving you a penalty to hit. So unless your meta has a large number of flyers or dark-eldar venoms I'd go with the cover-removal.

[Requizen]

Next codex is Craftworld Eldar.

If Iyanden looks good I'm starting a Wraith force.

[Cheesegear]

Well, my initial plan was something like 50 vanguard, all with omnispex and plasma...

Vanguard - especially with Plasma - take Data-tethers because of Stratagems.
It's Rangers - with Arquebuses - that take the Omnispex.

[Voidhawk]

Vanguard - especially with Plasma - take Data-tethers because of Stratagems.

I'm really not seeing it. In fact, I was so confused by this assertion that I went back to the codex and re-read every word about Vanguard, the weapons they can carry, and every stratagem just in case I missed something the first time through. This is what I found:

- There are two Stratagems that mention Data-Tethers. They give +1 to Hit at either Range or Melee, increased to +2 with a Data-Tether.
- Since all Skitarrii are BS 3+ and WS 4+ the Data-Tether bonus is only useful when taking penalties to hit, or in Melee (where they have each have one Str3 attack, not really worth the CP IMO).
- No weapons they carry trigger any bonus on a Hit roll, only on Wound rolls of 6+.
- Only Plasma weapons have a downside associated with a Hit Roll. But the Stratagem (or a Dominus giving rerolls) avoids that with no need for a Tether.

Is there something obvious somewhere I'm missing? Data-Tethers really don't seem worth it at all compared to army-wide Ignores Cover.

[Cheesegear]

Only Plasma weapons have a downside associated with a Hit Roll. But the Stratagem (or a Dominus giving rerolls) avoids that with no need for a Tether.

Ever tried to Supercharge against a Hard to Hit model? I have.
But re-roll Morale is also very good on units you know that are going to get shot at. Rangers in the back, don't get shot at (not really) so they don't take Morale tests because they don't die.

[Drasius]

I'm really not seeing it. In fact, I was so confused by this assertion that I went back to the codex and re-read every word about Vanguard, the weapons they can carry, and every stratagem just in case I missed something the first time through. This is what I found:

- There are two Stratagems that mention Data-Tethers. They give +1 to Hit at either Range or Melee, increased to +2 with a Data-Tether.
- Since all Skitarrii are BS 3+ and WS 4+ the Data-Tether bonus is only useful when taking penalties to hit, or in Melee (where they have each have one Str3 attack, not really worth the CP IMO).
- No weapons they carry trigger any bonus on a Hit roll, only on Wound rolls of 6+.
- Only Plasma weapons have a downside associated with a Hit Roll. But the Stratagem (or a Dominus giving rerolls) avoids that with no need for a Tether.

Is there something obvious somewhere I'm missing? Data-Tethers really don't seem worth it at all compared to army-wide Ignores Cover.

If only units could advance and fire with their assault weapons (such as radcarbines or plasma calivers for example) at a -1 malus...

If only there was a popular 3+ armour faction (or more) that imposes -ve to-hit penalties against your forces that you'd want to use plasma on...

[druid91]

I'm really not seeing it. In fact, I was so confused by this assertion that I went back to the codex and re-read every word about Vanguard, the weapons they can carry, and every stratagem just in case I missed something the first time through. This is what I found:

- There are two Stratagems that mention Data-Tethers. They give +1 to Hit at either Range or Melee, increased to +2 with a Data-Tether.
- Since all Skitarrii are BS 3+ and WS 4+ the Data-Tether bonus is only useful when taking penalties to hit, or in Melee (where they have each have one Str3 attack, not really worth the CP IMO).
- No weapons they carry trigger any bonus on a Hit roll, only on Wound rolls of 6+.
- Only Plasma weapons have a downside associated with a Hit Roll. But the Stratagem (or a Dominus giving rerolls) avoids that with no need for a Tether.

Is there something obvious somewhere I'm missing? Data-Tethers really don't seem worth it at all compared to army-wide Ignores Cover.

Cover is a single +1 to their save. I've found that 9/10 it really doesn't matter. Maybe if you were fighting the Tau on a cover heavy map it would help, but I've never seen a game with enough actual cover to justify the Omnispex. I only have one in my whole army, and it's on my sniper team. Because their whole schtick is killing off characters. Who are occasionally likely to be in cover and have high saves.


Secondly, Data Tethers help you keep your skitarii on the board for longer in addition to giving you the +2 when you spend the CP. Letting you boost past things like night or various psyker powers that give minuses to hit.

[Cheesegear]

Since all Skitarrii are BS 3+ and WS 4+ the Data-Tether bonus is only useful when taking penalties to hit...

I think the point is, since Vanguard have Assault weapons, they'll always be taking penalties To Hit, 'cause that's the point. Plasma explodes on 2s, now? No thanks.

[Renegade Paladin]

Also, anyone who has imperial Armor want to tell me how the Arvus lighter compares to the chimera?

The Lighter costs 40 more points, has one lower Toughness, two fewer Wounds, but (naturally) moves a lot faster and has all the associated Flyer slot rules. It can also SUA, has a self-repair on 6+, and comes in squadrons of 1-3. Transport capacity is the same.

[druid91]

The Lighter costs 40 more points, has one lower Toughness, two fewer Wounds, but (naturally) moves a lot faster and has all the associated Flyer slot rules. It can also SUA, has a self-repair on 6+, and comes in squadrons of 1-3. Transport capacity is the same.

Thanks. I was trying to figure out if they'd be worth it as a replacement for a Rogue Trader themed army. A repurposed cargo ship seemed perfect for that.

[Renegade Paladin]

Oh, I also should have mentioned: The 40 point difference gets a lot lower if you don't buy weapons for the Lighter, since "no thanks" is an option for it but not the Chimera, which will spend minimum 16 more points on weapons.

[Voidhawk]

If only units could advance and fire with their assault weapons (such as radcarbines or plasma calivers for example) at a -1 malus...

-Headdesk- There is is. That's what I missed. Thanks!

If only there was a popular 3+ armour faction (or more) that imposes -ve to-hit penalties against your forces that you'd want to use plasma on...

...Alpha Legion and Raven Guard. Right. Most armies do seem to be getting a faction with "further than 12" away" penalties, yes. My mistake was only looking at the codex in a vacuum.

[9mm]

So Iyanden comes with built in Comissars.

[Rizhail]

Iyanden preview is up!

Highlights:
-Iyanden units take only one casualty from failed morale, and units with damage tables count wounds as double when determining penalties
-spiritseers are cheaper (only 10 pts over warlock)
-all non-Knight wraiths are +1T
-runes of battle buff powers seem to have 18” range like the debuff version rather than ‘the psyker and nearby units’ based on the example power (assuming I’m not misremembering current runes or battle power mechanics from the index, which I don’t have on hand at the moment)

Looks pretty neat overall for Iyanden players.

[Blackhawk748]

Did they change the name from Aledari to Asuryani?

[Turalisj]

Iyanden preview is up!

Highlights:
-Iyanden units take only one casualty from failed morale, and units with damage tables count wounds as double when determining penalties
-spiritseers are cheaper (only 10 pts over warlock)
-all non-Knight wraiths are +1T
-runes of battle buff powers seem to have 18” range like the debuff version rather than ‘the psyker and nearby units’ based on the example power (assuming I’m not misremembering current runes or battle power mechanics from the index, which I don’t have on hand at the moment)

Looks pretty neat overall for Iyanden players.

Hate it already, honestly. Now we know why the new SC!Eldar is all wraiths.

[Rizhail]

Did they change the name from Aledari to Asuryani?

Aeldari means ‘all the pointy eared space gits’ while Asuryani specifically refers to Craftworlders.

[Forum Explorer]

Hate it already, honestly. Now we know why the new SC!Eldar is all wraiths.

SC!Eldar?

I do like the Illyadan stuff. Spiritseers are still useless since being within 6 inches of the enemy is a death sentence. Better to just take an Autach and have him give the exact same bonus, to every Wraithunit within 6. And then just Warlocks for the powers.

But I think with that bonus you'd actually be able to run Wraithlords again. Well, that and them becoming T8.

[LansXero]

SC!Eldar?

I do like the Illyadan stuff. Spiritseers are still useless since being within 6 inches of the enemy is a death sentence. Better to just take an Autach and have him give the exact same bonus, to every Wraithunit within 6. And then just Warlocks for the powers.

But I think with that bonus you'd actually be able to run Wraithlords again. Well, that and them becoming T8.

I wanted it to be StarCraft: Eldars so badly, but its Start Collecting xD

[Blackhawk748]

Aeldari means ‘all the pointy eared space gits’ while Asuryani specifically refers to Craftworlders.

So they are just making up more words for gun then. Seriously, just call them Craftworld Aledari

[9mm]

So they are just making up more words for gun then. Seriously, just call them Craftworld Aledari

but their copyrights?!?!

[druid91]

but their copyrights?!?!

I wonder how profitable it would be to go through and copyright everything that sounded kind of fantasy ish. And then charge big companies for the use of the name.

[Lost Demiurge]

So Iyanden's trait is essentially the Imperial Guard's Valhallan trait. Exact same thing, really.

What was a pretty decent trait for a hordes army seems to be a fairly powerful one for the relatively elite Eldar. Be interesting to see if there are any in there that can eclipse this one.

Also interesting to see them limiting it to five craftworlds. Not as many options for space elves...