Help me build a character with 4 Constitution

[Trampaige]

ng down. But once you wildshape? You're golden.

Half-Elf Druid
Str (10) Dex (11+1) Con (4) Int (12) Wis (17+1) Cha (13+2)

Literally the entire point of this thread is that he rolled his stats in order.

Why two feats though? I don't understand, we were talking about just Warcaster here... Or did I miss something?

Because it you were in fact talking about combining Warcaster and Polearm Master, I indeed have the same shallow memory as you, that some tweet said it was not the RAI (sadly), although it works by RAW... But I have no source at hand either way.
After that, it's up to each DM to follow RAI or RAW, either blindly or case by case. I tend to go by RAW because I often fail to see how forbidding things would actually break balance, but YMMV...

Because the original suggestion was to take warcaster + PAM and repelling blast anything that comes close. Without PAM you aren't making opportunity attacks on anything that comes close.

And actually, now that you mention it, yeah, the PAM opportunity attacks don't work with warcaster. https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/16/polearm-caster/

So, yeah, you can cast eldritch blast if something runs away from you, but then there's no point in pushing them away to protect yourself.

[Citan]

Literally the entire point of this thread is that he rolled his stats in order.




Because the original suggestion was to take warcaster + PAM and repelling blast anything that comes close. Without PAM you aren't making opportunity attacks on anything that comes close.

And actually, now that you mention it, yeah, the PAM opportunity attacks don't work with warcaster. https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/16/polearm-caster/

So, yeah, you can cast eldritch blast if something runs away from you, but then there's no point in pushing them away to protect yourself.

Yeah, another of those post-publication rulings which make you ask if they really remember their initial ideas...

Anyways, OP could always ask the DM which way he would rule in that game... Don't know if it's mandatory to follow tweets for AL games, but it's certainly not for "private" games...
Plus I think it's really fair game on someone that would be ready to invest 2 whole feats just for that trick... Ah well...

(By the way, thanks for searching, finding and providing the adequate tweet, much appreciated)

[MeeposFire]

Literally the entire point of this thread is that he rolled his stats in order.




Because the original suggestion was to take warcaster + PAM and repelling blast anything that comes close. Without PAM you aren't making opportunity attacks on anything that comes close.

And actually, now that you mention it, yeah, the PAM opportunity attacks don't work with warcaster. https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/16/polearm-caster/

So, yeah, you can cast eldritch blast if something runs away from you, but then there's no point in pushing them away to protect yourself.

Actually it does work but it did not have any examples that did work at the time of the initial post. You can use PAM and warcaster together but you are essentially forced to only use booming blade. Booming blade has only one target and uses the weapon in the attack from the spell so it works.

[djreynolds]

My advice is:

1. Play any character with a 4 con, for the fun of it. Have a reason and back story. Injury, disease, whatever, a curse

2. Cover it up, hill dwarf draconic sorcerer, is getting +2 HP a level. Max out charisma, grab elemental adept, and try to improve your con score

13, 12, 4, 10, 11, 17

Hill dwarf draconic sorcerer, 13/12/6/10/12/17,
4th ASI charisma 19
8th ASI charisma/strength 20/14
12th elemental adept
16th con 8
19th con 10

[JellyPooga]

The fact that a Paladin is mostly melee oriented (both attack and defense), and that he'd be cold cuts in the first good fight, even with his Con Saves becoming slightly above average because of his charisma at a level he likely won't make it to as a pure class Paladin?

Is it that bad though? Let's take a look at a 4 Con straight Paladin;

At 3rd level he has 13hp and will continue to gain 3hp each level. Not great, certainly; one hit can and probably will knock him down, but that's not anything any character isn't used to while struggling through those first three levels. On the flipside, he's also rocking AC:21 (18 for Full Plate, +2 Shield, +1 Defence FS) on a permanent basis, more if he invests in casting Shield of Faith or the like. With AC like that, I'd feel relatively safe going into melee, even if one hit could kill me. Whether I'm in the thick of a melee or standing in the back field, an AoE dealing half damage on a Save is probably going to take me out either way; so I'm marginally better off playing a Class with higher than average HD. Added to this, Lay on Hands provides me an extension on those hp when I take minor damage, not to mention the possibility of preparing healing spells.

Now to the meat of things. What makes a Paladin? Is it Smite? Is is Auras? Or is it being a character who overcomes his weaknesses through faith in a greater power or even his own sense of self (aka: Charisma)? Yes, a Paladin is probably best suited to the role of "guy on the front line, tanking like a pro and dishing out the smiting goodness", but that's not all he is capable of. Roleplaying aside, a Paladin can be a remarkably good support character. Protection Fighting Style is a free and repeatable source of Disadvantage on attacks against your allies. Lay on Hands provides healing not only for yourself, but others. The various Auras might be short ranged, but that doesn't mean you have to be on the front line; acting as a bodyguard for the back line of squishies is a valid and valuable position to hold. Who, after all, wants to approach the "squishies" when they're defended by a heavily armed and armoured guy that looks ready for a fight? What about Spellcasting? Paladin spell slots aren't limited to being used as fuel for smites and nor are they limited to self-buffs; perhaps they're not so adept as a Cleric or Bard in that regard, but a Cleric also doesn't have any of the other features I've mentioned that a Paladin does.

I agree that a low Con Paladin is unlikely to survive to higher levels, but only if he acts like a Paladin with high Con, but the same could be said of a Bard or Wizard; they too are unlikely to survive past level 1 if they act like a high Con Paladin.

[Tanarii]

I agree that a low Con Paladin is unlikely to survive to higher levels, but only if he acts like a Paladin with high Con, but the same could be said of a Bard or Wizard; they too are unlikely to survive past level 1 if they act like a high Con Paladin.

If you're planning on playing like a Wizard, you might as well be a Sorcerer or Warlock instead of a Paladin.

And yeah, IMX Wizards have a tendency to go down like a wet paper bag if they get anywhere near a CR appropriate creature (CR-2 or so). Of course, they're more likely to take the two solid hits or so it takes, given their AC. But one solid crit will ignore any amount of AC.

[JellyPooga]

If you're planning on playing like a Wizard, you might as well be a Sorcerer or Warlock instead of a Paladin.

"Like" a Wizard is not the same as "as" a Wizard. Lending your Charisma modifier to the back-lines Saves instead of the frontline and allowing your Blasters and Controllers to ignore Fear or Charm effects is something a Wizard or Cleric cannot do, but a Paladin can. Paladins have several unique features, many of which are very short ranged. Features that will only benefit the front-line if that Paladin is on said front-line. I concede that other features, such as the ability to Smite, are somewhat wasted for a Back-line Paladin, but that doesn't make such a character completely useless, nor does a low Con make them unable to survive to higher levels; characters with lower HD than a Paladin survive to higher levels, so why can't a Paladin?

And yeah, IMX Wizards have a tendency to go down like a wet paper bag if they get anywhere near a CR appropriate creature (CR-2 or so). Of course, they're more likely to take the two solid hits or so it takes, given their AC. But one solid crit will ignore any amount of AC.

True, but that's a risk that you have to weigh and the Paladin does have a better chance of surviving such encounters with his higher AC, as you say.

[RSP]

Best way to mitigate the Con score, in my opinion, is to go either Raven Queen Warlock or Lore Bard (or both).

The main thing you're looking for is to grab Sanctuary at either level 1 (Warlock) or 6 (Lore Bard Magic Secrets).

Max your Charisma score with ASIs/racials and you will be very hard to target. Sanctuary is a non-concentration bonus Action spell so still have plenty of options with either support or blasting (attack obviously breaks Sanctuary).

Stay in the back and blast/support and use Sanctuary any time you might get threatened.

If Lore Bard as well, you can always Cutting Words any attack roll or damage roll, that gets through your Sanctuary. Essentially enemies need 3 good rolls to get you: beat Wis save on Sanctuary to be able to attack/target, beat AC -Cutting Words, or do enough damage -Cutting Words.

This plus staying in the back should make up for the low HPs.