Get Fit: I want a folding vegetable.

[Tvtyrant]

I didn't see a thread for fitNess and lifestyle changes, so if there is one we can close this.

Spoiler: melodramatic life story

Show

My whole family is fat. Not thick, or heavy, but we'll and truly fat. My childhood was essentially training to accept my parents lifestyle choices as my own, and to articulate their defenses to other people.

My parents have other disfunctions, but the relevant one here is that we eat an endless meal from 6pm to sleep time. At 6 is dinner, which is a carb heavy meal of pastas, potatoes or other starches with meat and a tiny serving of veggies. Then comes snacks like popcorn, peanut butter on crackers, or chips then at 8 is dessert, followed by more snacks.

Sound like a holiday? It is like thanksgiving every day at my house. Anytime this is brought up it is met by rage and accusations of fat shaming.

I knew something was wrong because every time I moved out I would lose 50-60 pounds, then regain it on moving back. But it takes willpower to abandon a lifetime of being trained to an eating disorder, and that is something I have always lacked.

So at 26 I finally got over the 375 pound mark and started to get ill. An expensive and endless assortment of maladies hit me, and I spent a few years seeing doctors trying to find the cause. I even quit a doctor that suggested it was my weight.

So in April I hit my all time high weight mark of 420 pounds, and agreed to see a nutritionist and go on a (gasp) diet. And immediately stopped seeing the symptoms I had been dealing with for years.

I come to find out I have a food addiction, and so probably does everyone else in my family. Cutting carbs and sugar out killed my longing for food (after two weeks of hell).

But of course I am already borderline diabetic, so I have about two years to drop 200 pounds to try to keep me off a lifetime of drugs and needles.

Current Lifts:

Monday Lower Body
Squats
Good Mornings
Leg Extensions
Leg Curls
Standing Calf
Seated Calf
Walking Lunges
ABs - Reaches


Wednesday Upper Body
Bench Press
Arm Curls
Incline
Shoulder Press
Millitary Press
DB Laterals(Ka ka)
Skull Crushers
Planks


Friday Full body
Deadlift
Seated Row
Lateral Pulldowns
Barbell Curls
Tricep Dip
Pallof Press ISO Hold
Single-Arm Kettle Bell Snatch
Squat Rotator

The good news is I have lost 60 pounds since June on Atkins + gone from difficulty walking short distances to working out three days a week and doing long hikes once a week.

The only issue I have with my current diet is getting enough vitamins, as keeping carbs under 20 grams a day leaves little room for fruits and veggies. I take pills, but sometimes I get deficient for something (like potassium) and spend days in a fugue before I figure out what I am missing.

[paddyfool]

Congratulations on making a change!
All change is hard at the start, and messy in the middle, but It's the only way to make things better in the end.

[Coidzor]

Folding?

You'll be hard pressed to get too many calories if you eat some carrots or broccoli, or even something like orange juice so long as you measure it out and hold to only having X amount of it.

[Tvtyrant]

Folding?

You'll be hard pressed to get too many calories if you eat some carrots or broccoli, or even something like orange juice so long as you measure it out and hold to only having X amount of it.

Really, stupendously bad pun.

Yeah l think that is fair.

[paddyfool]

There are plenty of low carb veg options, e.g. this list: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...arb-vegetables

Edit: always worth making sure you get enough of these, for fibre, electrolytes and various micronutrients. Also, a few fresh, whole fruit (better than juices in this regard).

[Themrys]

Leafy green vegetables contain less carbohydrates than root vegetables.

[zlefin]

carbs under 20g a day sounds excessive; in general eating plenty of fruits and vegetables is never a problem. but if that's the diet you wanna try, hmmm; meats and milk can be good sources of nutrients.

[Honest Tiefling]

Is there a particular reason you're limiting carbs to such a high degree, such as a low carb diet? I haven't tried that, but I am also on a diet and trying to shed weight. I've found that finding the right diet for your own habits and lifestyle is important. I would worry if your diet doesn't have room for veggies and fruit, so maybe this isn't the diet for you. Especially if there is fruit and vegetables you do enjoy eating in a healthy manner, it's important not to lose that habit.

Otherwise, I would try to look at your vitamin pill options. You did mention taking one, but that it was deficient. Perhaps you need to switch brands, or to buy supplements to the vitamin pill for things like potassium.

[Tvtyrant]

Is there a particular reason you're limiting carbs to such a high degree, such as a low carb diet? I haven't tried that, but I am also on a diet and trying to shed weight. I've found that finding the right diet for your own habits and lifestyle is important. I would worry if your diet doesn't have room for veggies and fruit, so maybe this isn't the diet for you. Especially if there is fruit and vegetables you do enjoy eating in a healthy manner, it's important not to lose that habit.

Otherwise, I would try to look at your vitamin pill options. You did mention taking one, but that it was deficient. Perhaps you need to switch brands, or to buy supplements to the vitamin pill for things like potassium.

Yes, my nutritionist told me to. I am on a particular diet that is meant to force the body to undergo ketosis. This offsets some of the issues with diabetes, and forces the body to lose fat. In order to undergo ketosis you need to limit your card intake drastically.

It is also important to reiterate that I have food addiction problems directly correlating to sugar and carbs, so while I eat green veggies like broccoli and spinach daily I can't risk relapse by eating many foods like fruits (which are made of sugar).

Good point, different supplements might be helpful.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of supplements myself, because generally people will just eat regularly alongside them and see no difference at all, except maybe possibly some slight toxicity from too much proteins or certain other stuffs in the very long run, but this seems like the kind of situation they're for. Because as you know much better than I do, 200 pounds is a lot to lose, so you're going to cut back on normal food a lot, and you still want to get all the vitamins and other goodies as well as a sort of medium protein level and enough exercise to prevent yourself from losing all your muscles and the ability to move alongside the fat.

What supplements will not help you with is getting a full feeling, which helps you to stop eating, so "folding vegetables" are probably still a good idea. I know tomatoes and cucumbers are supposed to be pretty low carb, especially the overgrown watery ones that the organic crowd hates so much. The claim that they contain "negative calories" = they take more energy to digest than they contain for use, is false, as far as I know, but they're still kind of lean. Maybe some high fiber stuff like lettuce? I don't really know what the carb count is on that, but from the look and taste I would guess it's relatively low. Basically avoid anything that's sweet, like bell peppers, anything that has a bit of a dough/potato texture to it, like cauliflower, and anything that tastes like fat, but I'm not sure I even know a vegetable example of that.

[paddyfool]

You may find this list helpful, for carbs per quarter cup (from here, along with parallel lists for fruit: http://lowcarbediem.com/atkins-low-c...egetable-list/ )

Artichoke 6.9
Asparagus (6) 2.4
Beans, green 2.9
Beets 6.5
Bok Choy 0.7
Broccoli 1.7
Brussels Sprouts 7.6
Cabbage 1.1
Carrot 5.1
Cauliflower 1.5
Celery 0.8
Collard Greens 3.0
Cucumber 1.8
Eggplant 2.0
Garlic (1 clove) 1.0
Lettuce 0.5
Mushroom 1.0
Onion 4.0
Parsnip 9.0
Peas 6.5
Peppers, Green 3.4
Peppers, Red 3.3
Pickle (1 medium) 2.0
Pumpkin 6.3
Radish 0.5
Rutabaga 4.0
Spinach 0.2
Squash, Yellow 1.4
Tomato 3.2
Turnips 2.3
Zucchini 3.3

Also, you may find this general grouping helpful as a guide:

Leaves (almost zero carb)

Trace carbs are wrapped in so much fiber that there is little, if any, impact on blood sugar. They are rich in phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals. Examples: lettuce, spinach, Swiss chard, herbs.

Stems and Flowers (very low carb)

Some stem and flower vegetables are asparagus, cauliflower, broccoli and mushrooms.

Fruit (moderate carbs)

The fruit is the part of the plant that contains seeds. Botanically, this is the fruit of the plant, although we tend to call it “fruit” only if it’s sweet.

Examples of “fruit” include peppers, squashes of all types, green beans, tomatoes, okra, and eggplant. Avocado is also a fruit, but is lower in carbs than the others.

Roots (very high carb)

Many roots, such as parsnips, water chestnuts, potatoes, sweet potatoes and yams are high in carbs.

However, some are actually lower in carbs, such as jicama, radishes, celery root and carrots.

Do I take it your nutritionist has you on a limited time induction plan, with the intention of phasing more fruit and veg carbs back in later?

[Tyndmyr]

I find slices of cucumber to be handy as a bite sized snack food. The snack sized ziplock bags are a great portion size of them, and if you slice up a few bags at once, the others will last a couple of days in the fridge. Having 'em pre-sliced and ready to go seems to help for choosing healthy snacks. Any snack requiring preparation, I tend to forgo. Carrots I can do occasionally, but they seem to be further from that snack craving for me.

Tastes vary, of course, so what works for me may not work for you, but experiment a bunch and you'll get there!

[Honest Tiefling]

Yes, my nutritionist told me to.

That's a really good reason to throw my advice into the garbage then! Never tried the keto diet personally, but I have heard it works for a lot of folks.

Can the nutritionist recommend some supplements? They'd probably know the big ones to grab, and which ones you might personally need.

[Tvtyrant]

Do I take it your nutritionist has you on a limited time induction plan, with the intention of phasing more fruit and veg carbs back in later?

Yeah, we are on the "get below 360 then we will start stabilizing" plan. Doctor and nutritionist think that is going to be a big line to cross.

One of my issues right now is that I stopped losing weight a few weeks ago, and am skip ropeing between 175 and 180 pounds. I'm still losing fat visibly so I am hoping I that the weight lifting is just building muscle and once I hit a threshold there I will start losing weight again.

That's a really good reason to throw my advice into the garbage then! Never tried the keto diet personally, but I have heard it works for a lot of folks.

Can the nutritionist recommend some supplements? They'd probably know the big ones to grab, and which ones you might personally need.

The good thing is I am not a vegetarian or vegan, and I prefer meat to most other foods anyway. So I can do low carb long term without lifestyle hangups, its just the weird and noticeable deficiencies that have been getting to me recently.

That is a good point, I will ask her next time I see her.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Yeah, we are on the "get below 360 then we will start stabilizing" plan. Doctor and nutritionist think that is going to be a big line to cross.

One of my issues right now is that I stopped losing weight a few weeks ago, and am skip ropeing between 175 and 180 pounds.

This will probably seem a really stupid question in hindsight, but it looks like you want to get below 360 pounds, but are actually already below 180 pounds, which would make you noticeably lighter than me and depending on your size probably a good healthy weight. So, what am I reading wrong here? Is 180 pounds the amount lost? That doesn't seem to match the rest of the story. Is skip roping with heavy weights an exercise you do? Is one of those numbers in kilograms? Did you just mistype one or two digits somewhere in there?

On the great list posted by paddyfool: Wow, I was pretty off on my advice. See, that's why I'm not a nutritionist. Please everybody here stop listening to me.

[Tvtyrant]

This will probably seem a really stupid question in hindsight, but it looks like you want to get below 360 pounds, but are actually already below 180 pounds, which would make you noticeably lighter than me and depending on your size probably a good healthy weight. So, what am I reading wrong here? Is 180 pounds the amount lost? That doesn't seem to match the rest of the story. Is skip roping with heavy weights an exercise you do? Is one of those numbers in kilograms? Did you just mistype one or two digits somewhere in there?

On the great list posted by paddyfool: Wow, I was pretty off on my advice. See, that's why I'm not a nutritionist. Please everybody here stop listening to me.

Oh lord my Freudian typos.

I am 375-380 now (I am chalking that typo to wishful thinking), down from 420 in June. I am trying to get below 360, then we are going to adjust to a slightly higher carb ratio.

My current excercise regiment is walk 10,000 steps a day, weight lift 3xweek, 10 mile hike 1xweek (that was twice a week but the sun goes down quicker each week).

Current weights, each excercise is 3x10
Leg day:
Squat 180lbs (bad knees or it would be more)
Deadlift 275lb
Power clean 150lb
45 lb resistance bands for leg curls and extensions
35 lb reaches
2 minute bicycles (on back, legs over head doing bicycle motions)

Arm Day
Bench 165lb
Inclined bench 140lbs
Seated rows 200lb
Military Press some weight (we just started these)
55 lb skull crushers
Bicep curls 25 lbs each arm (tiny biceps, giant triceps)
3 1 minute planks
Reaches
Bicycles

All body day is friday, aND it changes from week to week as we haven't hammered out what we want there.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I am trying to get below 360, then we are going to adjust to a slightly higher carb ratio.

I have little more to add other than "figure out which vitamins you need, and see if doctor recommends targeting them with pills", which has been already said.

But I do want to say: good for you. I really hope this works out. And congratulations on your gains so far.

GW

[Tvtyrant]

I have little more to add other than "figure out which vitamins you need, and see if doctor recommends targeting them with pills", which has been already said.

But I do want to say: good for you. I really hope this works out. And congratulations on your gains so far.

GW

Thank you!

You may find this list helpful, for carbs per quarter cup (from here, along with parallel lists for fruit: http://lowcarbediem.com/atkins-low-c...egetable-list/ )



Also, you may find this general grouping helpful as a guide:

Yes, thank you!

You can see why it is hard to keep below 20 and eat enough veggies though, 1 cup of vegetables other than lettuce and the limit is hit.

Any advice on the working out aspect? We are looking at starting some flexibility training for fridays, since they are mostly empty and we are both now stiff old men.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

'm still losing fat visibly so I am hoping I that the weight lifting is just building muscle and once I hit a threshold there I will start losing weight again.

With the regimen you posted I would expect this is right. I have no benchmarks for this stuff other than knowing that one of the heavier external objects I ever lifted was around 200kg/440lbs, and that only had to go from about knee height 30 cm up ones (for a free beer, so definitely worth it), but just going by the looks of those numbers those look like respectable muscle building weights. Maybe start swimming or cycling (or rowing, or whatever you can do with the equipment you can find that will work with someone who goes over the standard competition weight a bit, my single speed city bicycle breaks down all the time) at some point to supplement the hiking (considering the weak knees), looks like you have your work cut out for you.

[Tvtyrant]

With the regimen you posted I would expect this is right. I have no benchmarks for this stuff other than knowing that one of the heavier external objects I ever lifted was around 200kg/440lbs, and that only had to go from about knee height 30 cm up ones (for a free beer, so definitely worth it), but just going by the looks of those numbers those look like respectable muscle building weights. Maybe start swimming or cycling (or rowing, or whatever you can do with the equipment you can find that will work with someone who goes over the standard competition weight a bit, my single speed city bicycle breaks down all the time) at some point to supplement the hiking (considering the weak knees), looks like you have your work cut out for you.

I use trekking poles, it keeps the pressure off of my knees. Going to start snowshoeing as soon as the snow starts.

Rowing seems great, I just need a way to transport a boat (I have a perfect one and the oars). My tiny gallant can't really tow my 150lb boat.

[Icewraith]

... anything that tastes like fat, but I'm not sure I even know a vegetable example of that.

Closest I can think of is Avocado, which is still a fruit.

[Tvtyrant]

Closest I can think of is Avocado, which is still a fruit.

Thankfully there are buttery nuts, like cashews. I find that a 60/40 cashew to almond split is the best, if you split it evenly you end up hunting out the cashews but you need the almonds to offset the butteryness.

[Anonymouswizard]

Just posting to say that I'm also trying to lose weight (my top value was a bit over 260 pounds, I'm on the way down again), ideally somewhere just below 100 pounds I reckon to get to the 150-160 range, and I used to have one of the weirder problems.

Now generally I tend to lose weight when at home, and I'm at home now, so it's not too hard (when I can remember not to snack), and I'm doing WeightWatchers because I've got no need to lose it quickly. But when I was away I was with people my age who, let me be frank here, have no idea how fat is fat. People would say 'no you're just a bit overweight' when I was less morbidly obese, to the point where I eventually started correcting people.

I think I'm going to have to take up exercise as well, but I'm not in a great position for it right now. At least I walk a lot so I know that I can still manage to get around every day (compared to some people I know of a similar weight, who get out of breath on the tube, I'm rather fit), but I'll see if I can add in any weights or cardio.

[paddyfool]

Anonymouswizard,

Generally speaking, if you're looking to exercise more as a heavy person, you'd best go for joint-friendly exercise (e.g. walking especially Nordic-style ie using poles, cycling especially recumbant, swimming, aqua aerobics, rowing, kayaking, yoga, pilates, basic core exercise e.g. planks, climbing, most forms of dance), but avoid too much of anything that involves a lot of running or other hard impacts / knee stress. At least until you've got a little weight off and muscle on around your core and above and below your hips and knees. Then when you've got a bit stronger, maybe look at weights or martial arts or whatever else tickles your fancy.

[Anonymouswizard]

Anonymouswizard,

Generally speaking, if you're looking to exercise more as a heavy person, you'd best go for joint-friendly exercise (e.g. walking especially Nordic-style ie using poles, cycling especially recumbant, swimming, aqua aerobics, rowing, kayaking, yoga, pilates, basic core exercise e.g. planks, climbing, most forms of dance), but avoid too much of anything that involves a lot of running or other hard impacts / knee stress. At least until you've got a little weight off and muscle on around your core and above and below your hips and knees. Then when you've got a bit stronger, maybe look at weights or martial arts or whatever else tickles your fancy.

Eh, I'm not exactly light on muscle mass due to having done a lot of walking while at university. But I'm going to be looking up exercises when my brain's not full of JavaScript.

[Tvtyrant]

Eh, I'm not exactly light on muscle mass due to having done a lot of walking while at university. But I'm going to be looking up exercises when my brain's not full of JavaScript.

It's the joints that are the bigget problem, humans are designed to weigh roughly 100 pounds less than you and 250 pounds less than me, so the knees, back and ankles wear out if you do trail running or wind sprints.

Personally I do nordoc walking and cross country skiing.

[Solaris]

It's the joints that are the bigget problem, humans are designed to weigh roughly 100 pounds less than you and 250 pounds less than me, so the knees, back and ankles wear out if you do trail running or wind sprints.

Personally I do nordoc walking and cross country skiing.

This.
You can have piles of muscle; that's not going to help the damage from high-impact exercises. The best it'll do is keep your knees from completely blowing out (and that's if you have good, strong stabilizer muscles there - having good stabilizers isn't a given if you got your strength through weight-lifting rather than calisthenics and athletics, for example). I'm at 150-165 lb. in fighting trim, but running around wearing 80+ pounds of gear for a few years has given me some pretty interesting knee, hip, and back problems. Imagine what it'll do if it's more weight, and you can't just take it off at the end of the day. If you want to be able to pick up your grandkids and be able to get around without a walker, do low impact exercises when you want to lose weight.

Tvtyrant, who do you have exercising with you in the gym? Form is crucially important for avoiding injury and maximizing gains, and it's a lot easier for another person to spot mistakes in form than it is for us to notice them ourselves. There's nothing more demoralizing when it comes to making progress than being laid up for a couple of weeks because you blew out your knee or some such.
Gaining muscle mass is a good thing and a good way to go about losing weight, because muscle burns fat faster by raising your metabolic consumption of calories even when you're not actively exercising. Being as you've been at it a while I'm fairly confident you're not pushing yourself too hard, but for anyone reading this it's important to make sure you don't over-exert yourself while exercising (sounds kinda counter-intuitive, doesn't it?). Train to exhaustion, train to muscle failure, but do not train 'til you puke, pass out, or get lightheaded and loopy. Those last three are signs of heat injury/dehydration, and that's not the goal you're wanting to achieve.

[Tvtyrant]

Tvtyrant, who do you have exercising with you in the gym? Form is crucially important for avoiding injury and maximizing gains, and it's a lot easier for another person to spot mistakes in form than it is for us to notice them ourselves. There's nothing more demoralizing when it comes to making progress than being laid up for a couple of weeks because you blew out your knee or some such.
Gaining muscle mass is a good thing and a good way to go about losing weight, because muscle burns fat faster by raising your metabolic consumption of calories even when you're not actively exercising. Being as you've been at it a while I'm fairly confident you're not pushing yourself too hard, but for anyone reading this it's important to make sure you don't over-exert yourself while exercising (sounds kinda counter-intuitive, doesn't it?). Train to exhaustion, train to muscle failure, but do not train 'til you puke, pass out, or get lightheaded and loopy. Those last three are signs of heat injury/dehydration, and that's not the goal you're wanting to achieve.

My hiking partner. He has the opposite problem as me, being anorexic. He weighed 130 as a 30 year old that is 6ft before we started out, and rarely eats (thankfully he is going up with the weight lifting, which makes him eat more).

We get some help from the local football coach, my partner being a teacher, and I worked out through my undergraduate years so we are decent with forms and not pushing too hard. Although honestly I can't go too fast because he can't save me if I fail on a big lift :/

[Knaight]

It's the joints that are the bigget problem, humans are designed to weigh roughly 100 pounds less than you and 250 pounds less than me, so the knees, back and ankles wear out if you do trail running or wind sprints.

Although there is the matter of height here - 260 pounds at 5'0" (regardless of musculature) is enough to damage joints, 260 pounds at 7'0" is pretty normal for in shape athletes.

[Anonymouswizard]

It's the joints that are the bigget problem, humans are designed to weigh roughly 100 pounds less than you and 250 pounds less than me, so the knees, back and ankles wear out if you do trail running or wind sprints.

Personally I do nordoc walking and cross country skiing.

Yeah, on the other hand I actually enjoy running and wish I owned a treadmill (nowhere to put the thing though). But I should be able to do weights, I did some at this weight a few years ago with no problems, and if I can get access to a cross trainer or the like that should let me do Cardio with few problems.

Although there is the matter of height here - 260 pounds at 5'0" (regardless of musculature) is enough to damage joints, 260 pounds at 7'0" is pretty normal for in shape athletes.

Well I'm 5'7'', so there might be some risk? Not in a massive position to do cardio yet anyway.