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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Jormengand's Avatar

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    Default Re: Greater Prestidigitation, Omnipotence (versatile spells)

    So, rather than opening Greater Prestidigitation up to at-will CMW because the spell isn't OP enough as-is, how about adding a whitelist - for example, if you're looking to be able to blast people in combat, force people to use the spellslinger spell list which is designed with a lack of /day limits in mind (treat the devastation spells as just being 7th-level spells) - which could allow you to have your spells give open access to maybe two levels below for a minute per level, three levels below for 10 minutes per level or four levels below for an hour per level without it being too much. You could also reduce the casting time, then, so that it's reasonably usable before you expect to fight.

    This gives, for example:

    Convoke
    Universal
    Level: Sor/Wiz 5
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 minute
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 minute/level
    You amass the power of destructive energies to obliterate your foes and aid your allies in battle.

    You can cast Resistance, Acid Splash, Daze, Flare, Ray of Frost, Disrupt Undead, Touch of Fatigue, Cause Minor Wounds, Virtue, Protection from Chaos, Protection from Evil, Protection from Good, Protection from Law, Shield, Mage Armour, True Strike, Sleep, Shocking Grasp, Cause Fear, Chill Touch, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Reduce Person, Touch of Gracelessness, Bane, Bless, Cause Light Wounds, Doom, Magic Missile, Burning Hands, Grease, Protection from Arrows, Resist Energy, Acid Arrow, Daze Monster, Hideous Laughter, Touch of Idiocy, Invisibility, Blindness/Deafness, Ghoul Touch, Scare, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendour, Fox's Cunning, Owl's Wisdom, Aid, Cause Moderate Wounds, Death Knell, Scorching Ray, Sound Burst, Silence, Protection from Energy, Deep Slumber, Heroism, Hold Person, Rage, Displacement, Halt Undead, Ray of Exhaustion, Vampiric Touch, Flame Arrow, Haste, Slow, Cause Serious Wounds, Fireball, Lightning Bolt and Searing Light at will as spell-like abilities at any time during the duration. Those spell-like abilities end when the Convoke effect on you ends, and their effective caster level is the same as your caster level when casting Convoke.




    It's still powerful, and far more effective at blowing things up in straight-out combat, but won't allow you to turn an entire city to your side, or create an equine legion of destruction, which is more concerning to me than a few evocations.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    rferries's Avatar

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    Default Re: Greater Prestidigitation, Omnipotence (versatile spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragovon View Post
    So I like the changes you've made. Personally, Id add a 7th level spell that duplicates 2nd or less (and 1st non sorc/wiz). Id also allow Prestidigitation, Greater to allow 0 level non wizard spells. I think Id also add a 3rd level spell that allows all Sorc/Wiz 0 levels at will. Also Id adjust the text so that you also have the option to have the material components for said spells instead of the XP cost. That said, I think the changes are well balanced and reasonable. I think with the changes I mentioned above, Im going to add them (4 versions, so thus the names may be adjusted) as allowed spells (on a beta basis) to my games and see how it goes.
    Righto, hope you have fun! However the consensus here would seem to indicate that the 7th-level version might be too powerful - resist energy, scorching ray, etc. are available at that level. Nevertheless I hope it works out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    So, rather than opening Greater Prestidigitation up to at-will CMW because the spell isn't OP enough as-is, how about adding a whitelist - for example, if you're looking to be able to blast people in combat, force people to use the spellslinger spell list which is designed with a lack of /day limits in mind (treat the devastation spells as just being 7th-level spells) - which could allow you to have your spells give open access to maybe two levels below for a minute per level, three levels below for 10 minutes per level or four levels below for an hour per level without it being too much. You could also reduce the casting time, then, so that it's reasonably usable before you expect to fight.

    This gives, for example:

    Convoke
    Universal
    Level: Sor/Wiz 5
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 minute
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 minute/level
    You amass the power of destructive energies to obliterate your foes and aid your allies in battle.

    You can cast Resistance, Acid Splash, Daze, Flare, Ray of Frost, Disrupt Undead, Touch of Fatigue, Cause Minor Wounds, Virtue, Protection from Chaos, Protection from Evil, Protection from Good, Protection from Law, Shield, Mage Armour, True Strike, Sleep, Shocking Grasp, Cause Fear, Chill Touch, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Reduce Person, Touch of Gracelessness, Bane, Bless, Cause Light Wounds, Doom, Magic Missile, Burning Hands, Grease, Protection from Arrows, Resist Energy, Acid Arrow, Daze Monster, Hideous Laughter, Touch of Idiocy, Invisibility, Blindness/Deafness, Ghoul Touch, Scare, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendour, Fox's Cunning, Owl's Wisdom, Aid, Cause Moderate Wounds, Death Knell, Scorching Ray, Sound Burst, Silence, Protection from Energy, Deep Slumber, Heroism, Hold Person, Rage, Displacement, Halt Undead, Ray of Exhaustion, Vampiric Touch, Flame Arrow, Haste, Slow, Cause Serious Wounds, Fireball, Lightning Bolt and Searing Light at will as spell-like abilities at any time during the duration. Those spell-like abilities end when the Convoke effect on you ends, and their effective caster level is the same as your caster level when casting Convoke.




    It's still powerful, and far more effective at blowing things up in straight-out combat, but won't allow you to turn an entire city to your side, or create an equine legion of destruction, which is more concerning to me than a few evocations.
    Wow, that's an impressive writeup, and a nifty idea! Rather than using a specific whitelist, I think I'll just keep my spells as they are and add a blanket clause that they can duplicate spells "subject to DM approval" - in this way they can even do non-Core spells, within reason. As mentioned before the charm person, mount , cure minor wounds etc examples aren't particularly game-breaking IMO, but if the DM feels they are they can be banned as SLAs. Convoke makes a nice combat-focused version of the spells, too!

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Greater Prestidigitation, Omnipotence (versatile spells)

    I'm a bit late to the party, but I have an idea that you might find interesting. Why not make a specially prepared 'spellbook' needed as a focus for the spell. This can also be used to limit the spells you can mimic by making the requirement to have them written in the 'spellbook'. The requirements the 'spellbook' needs to meet to be a focus can be talked over with the DM

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Greater Prestidigitation, Omnipotence (versatile spells)

    Just make warlock prestige class that focuses on spells and give him limited ability to use spells as invocations. d4 hitdice, poor AB, but access to arcane spells. At will is too powerful, may be some sort of cooldown? Like dragon breath cooldawn or once per encounter mechanics of ToB. I had written one warlock PRC based on 1/encounter mechanics.

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    rferries's Avatar

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    Default Re: Greater Prestidigitation, Omnipotence (versatile spells)

    Quote Originally Posted by SirTinal View Post
    I'm a bit late to the party, but I have an idea that you might find interesting. Why not make a specially prepared 'spellbook' needed as a focus for the spell. This can also be used to limit the spells you can mimic by making the requirement to have them written in the 'spellbook'. The requirements the 'spellbook' needs to meet to be a focus can be talked over with the DM
    That's a cool workaround too. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ayvango View Post
    Just make warlock prestige class that focuses on spells and give him limited ability to use spells as invocations. d4 hitdice, poor AB, but access to arcane spells. At will is too powerful, may be some sort of cooldown? Like dragon breath cooldawn or once per encounter mechanics of ToB. I had written one warlock PRC based on 1/encounter mechanics.
    Also nifty!

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