Character and Deity alignment being the opposite

[Shann]

Hello, I would like some help with some ideas as to how to put a bunch of difficult concepts together for my character background/personality. Understandably, this is a far-fetched idea and is probably un-doable given the circumstances, but I'd like to hear some ideas.

To start, my character is of a homebrew race. This is going to be the only thing that is homebrew; assume that nothing else can be homebrewed and that the DM cannot be asked to change anything else.

Essentially my character is one that lives in the cold and has a natural affinity to ice and winter. It is a very strong connection rooted in this character's race, not just a tribe or individuals. This connection, as its root, is not tied to any deity.

However, it is natural that if a godly connection between this character and a deity was formed, it would be one with Auril, Goddess of Winter. And I reasoned that such a connection would form because of the character's natural affinity to winter. Thereafter, as one who has the favor and command of Auril, my character would be urged to act upon her will. A "Chosen", if you will.

The problem lies in my character's personality and alignment, as I envision my character to be unshakeably pure of heart and altruistic and very gentle. However, Auril is evil and fickle. Her religion's main dogma is to convert followers out of fear of Auril's wrath. But this goes against my character's personality. Rather than emphasize the brutal wrath of winter, I wanted to present winter in a positive light and appreciable goodness instead. Think, instead of a savage blizzard, a gentle snowfall.

I don't want the idea of my character being misled into doing evil, or even being mean for the sake of good (e.g. save someone with the power of Auril then tell them to fear/worship her power or they're next etc.). I don't want to use fear or other questionable means as that goes against my character's goodness and gentleness. Basically I want to keep my character's integrity in-tact. To be wholesome and good, while still somehow pleasing or satisfying Auril in some way.

So I figured this is basically impossible to do given the conditions (most likely, this could never work), and I'm probably going to have to make a new character from scratch, but if anyone have any ideas, please share.

[Avonar]

Well, even if Auril would not necessarily agree with kinder methods, if it gets results then there is the potential to satisfy there. Sticking with the theme of worshipping her to avoid a harsh winter, that does not have to be evil, in the same way that people worship harvest gods in the hope of getting a good amount of crops. There is still a bit of fear there, the fear of a bad harvest, but it is a more positive belief overall. If you can convince people that worshipping Auril will help bring a more pleasant winter, that could help?

[Honest Tiefling]

Your character has a connection to ice, winter and the cold, as does everyone else of their race.

But there's no innate connection to Auril. Just because she thinks she is the queen of winter does not make her so. Her nature as a fickle and cruel goddess that inflicts suffering makes her antithetical to your kin's beliefs and nature. Just as a big burly dude wouldn't necessarily worship any evil god of war or destruction just because that god is also big and burly, or the way an elf wouldn't always worship evil gods of magic just because magic.

If you do become a cleric, it is instead a goodly (Or neutral) god. Silvanus is the god of wild nature, and I'd say that the artic probably counts. Maybe your race is from mountainous forests and and pine forests of northerly climes, so Mielikki, goddess of forests guides your people. A gentle snowfall seems like a joyous thing, so maybe your kind prefer Liira, goddess of joy. A god of magic or luck would also be really advantageous for people needing to find food in a harsh enviroment.

Another idea is that your character is aware that Auril holds sway over the domain where your people reside...And maybe even a few of them. But rather then submit, your character is determined to show your own people and others that another should rule over your people. Your people's magic can be used for good as well as for evil, and you are determined to show that Auril holds no sway over you and you will never bend knee to her. You know some of your people do follow her, seeking enlightment and power in their innate power, but you are aware that they are so much more then their magic. Their will, their knowledge, their determination defines them, not the touch of the elements. You choose to worship a different god to embody another aspect of your people to bring them into salvation away from the fickle desires of an uncaring goddess.

SUCK IT, ICE QUEEN.

EDIT: Discuss with your DM if you want to bring in FR lore from previous editions. Gods would swap, lose or gain domains (Bane died and came back and in the process grabbed his domains back from his kid, Cyric went bonkers and lost the domain of Death, Liira held onto Waukeen's domains for a bit, Hoar was being swayed by both Tyr/Shar to either become a god of petty vengeance or a god of justice, and when Bhaal/Myrkul/Amaunator were dead people tried to grab their domains.

So what's to say a mortal like your PC isn't going to try to encourage a god to yoink winter from Auril? I think that nice fellow Gwaeron Windstorm, god of tracking in the north seems like a better fit for the job, don't you?

[Shann]

Thank you so much for these ideas. They've been extremely helpful in giving me some inspiration. Yeah, I suppose I don't have to be limited to Auril worship since the innate cold powers of the race are not tied to Auril anyways.

Edit: Indeed, a new god of winter would be very much welcome! I'll have to see what my DM thinks.

[Kane0]

There is also the option of Worshipping Auril in the manner you please, whether she and her clergy like it or not. You would most likely be considered misguided or heretical amongst more standard Auril worshippers but others may view you as part of a more benign offshoot (or cult).

And that's if you're religious at all. It's totally possible to be intimately connected with ice and cold without being a devotee of the deity that governs it.

[Honest Tiefling]

There is also the option of Worshipping Auril in the manner you please, whether she and her clergy like it or not. You would most likely be considered misguided or heretical amongst more standard Auril worshippers but others may view you as part of a more benign offshoot (or cult).

I don't suggest it. Auril heavily suggests Faerun, and in past editions of Faerun this wasn't an option. Currently, the wording of the cleric class heavily implies that the god chooses the cleric, not the other way around. The phrase "The gods choose whomever they will, and sometimes a devoted worshiper is blessed..." doesn't really imply that mortals can get cleric levels without the god's blessing. The Sword Coast Adventure guide talks heavily of gods rejecting priests from becoming clerics and blocking them entirely from that path...So it doesn't seem supported by the lore to be able pursue this.

Unless you, as the player, know that the DM is putting their own spin on Faerun and that this might be possible, or are okay with the DM screwing with the character's faith (Older editions had demons and other gods posing as one another, so you might be accidentally be worshiping the wrong entity) or okay with the idea that the character is playing into Auril's schemes...I wouldn't really suggest this.

[JackPhoenix]

There is also the option of Worshipping Auril in the manner you please, whether she and her clergy like it or not. You would most likely be considered misguided or heretical amongst more standard Auril worshippers but others may view you as part of a more benign offshoot (or cult).

And that's if you're religious at all. It's totally possible to be intimately connected with ice and cold without being a devotee of the deity that governs it.

Of course, in FR, this would lead to you being stuck in the Wall of the Faithless after death.

[Honest Tiefling]

Of course, in FR, this would lead to you being stuck in the Wall of the Faithless after death.

Um, yes, this is also an issue. I don't know if this blocks resurrecting the faithless/false dead in 5e, but getting stuck in a wall for the afterlife which will lead to oblivion is really kinda a bummer. If your DM knows of older editions, you might not be able to be resurrected if you are false, depending on if they want to delve into that issue or not.

Digging around has produced this gem:

The deities of the Faerunian pantheon are by no means the only powers worshiped in the Realms. The nonhuman races have pantheons of their own (described in chapter 3), and scattered other cults and local divinities can be found across Faerun.

So...Ask your DM what this means. We can work with it from there.

[Kane0]

I'm not up to speed on FR-specific lore, but aren't most deities powered by faith? As a not-greater goddess of a fairly specific portfolio, it could be possible that she is prioritising faith income over a preference for evil followers. Also better for PR.

[Honest Tiefling]

I'm not up to speed on FR-specific lore, but aren't most deities powered by faith? As a not-greater goddess of a fairly specific portfolio, it could be possible that she is prioritising faith income over a preference for evil followers. Also better for PR.

In third edition, yes, they were powered by faith, but very few evil gods wanted a good reputation and most were served or worshiped out of fear. Since that was the MO of every single evil god, I think it's safe to say that fear is close enough to empower them. Also remember that people pray to the gods to avoid their wrath, which probably counts? Many sailors pray to Umberlee, people pray to Bane to make the Zhentarim go away, and others pray to Malar to not get mauled by bears.

Not saying the system isn't a little black and white, but if we consider the broad rules of earlier editions, no, they aren't going to tolerate (or even have by the rules) a good aligned follower.

Also, I think Auril's dogma was to literally make everyone fear the winter, so a little incompatible with the whole scheme thing. I think this would require a LOT of DM approval, which I am getting the impression we need to lean away from since it seems the DM might be a bit leery of allowing such after a homebrew race.

EDIT: The only one I can think of who ever tried to get good aligned followers was Shar, who slew a god and then granted his followers power under his name. Since he was neutral, that probably meant a few good aligned people in the mix. But Bane, Talos, Umberlee, Cyric, Beshaba? Yeah, not so good on the PR.

[Shann]

Yup, I cannot ask the DM to make any more custom changes.

Indeed, Auril's dogma is so one-dimensional and her alignment/personality being so pure evil that I couldn't really think of any possible way for her to willingly grant her divine powers to and approve an Aurilian cleric who would be diametrically opposed in alignment and actions. She has no redeemable qualities at all.

[Kane0]

Reminds me of Umberlee, I'd bet they would get along swell. Get it?

[Naanomi]

Ulutiu still has followers despite being sleeping, and is Lawful Neutral

[RickAllison]

I would say run with the "Fear the Winter" theme. But rather than terrorizing the populace, you prepare them. You can go around teaching the people about the perils that Auril brings, and showing them how to appease her wrath and weather her storms. You teach people to give offerings to Auril for the same reason Umberlee is revered on ships, out of proper fear. Instead of terrorizing people and making them fear you like other followers, you teach why they should fear the god.

[Malifice]

Do you really need examples of evil people being priests/ followers of religions that proscribe to be 'good'?

Inquisiton, Crusades, Jihadis etc etc etc

Plenty of real world examples of very devout people doing all sorts of evil in the name of their faith 'for the greater good of the religion'.

Use something like that as your inspiration.

[JackPhoenix]

Do you really need examples of evil people being priests/ followers of religions that proscribe to be 'good'?

Inquisiton, Crusades, Jihadis etc etc etc

Plenty of real world examples of very devout people doing all sorts of evil in the name of their faith 'for the greater good of the religion'.

Use something like that as your inspiration.

Except that's the exact opposite of OP's situation.

[Malifice]

Except that's the exact opposite of OP's situation.

Its the same principle.

Do [Y] even though religion prescribes [X].

In 3E there was the Servant of the Faithless feat that let you be 2 steps away in alignment, and/or pick a different domain.

So a NG cleric of Auril was perfectly fine. Instead of intimidating folks into her worship, she tries to spread the word of Auril by tending to the sick and the injured, and helping people prepare for the coming winter, to sheild them from the Wrath of Auril.

Your PC is convinced Auril isnt really 'evil' - she's just portrayed this way by misguided clerics. You're convinced that winter is a natural part of life and the seasons.

You would also do well not to let them in, and let them see. To be the good girl you always have to be. Conceal, don't feel, don't let them know. And when they know, you should really just let it go.

The cold never bothered you anyway.

[JackPhoenix]

Its the same principle.

Do [Y] even though religion prescribes [X].

In 3E there was the Servant of the Faithless feat that let you be 2 steps away in alignment, and/or pick a different domain.

So a NG cleric of Auril was perfectly fine. Instead of intimidating folks into her worship, she tries to spread the word of Auril by tending to the sick and the injured, and helping people prepare for the coming winter, to sheild them from the Wrath of Auril.

Your PC is convinced Auril isnt really 'evil' - she's just portrayed this way by misguided clerics. You're convinced that winter is a natural part of life and the seasons.

You would also do well not to let them in, and let them see. To be the good girl you always have to be. Conceal, don't feel, don't let them know. And when they know, you should really just let it go.

The cold never bothered you anyway.

This is not 3e. I hope you'll enjoy your afterlife as a (semi-literal) brick in the wall.

Problem with FR is that it doesn't allow for much in the alternative interpretations of the gods. Especially as said gods have tendency to intervene directly when they don't like something.

[Malifice]

This is not 3e. I hope you'll enjoy your afterlife as a (semi-literal) brick in the wall.

Yes this is 5E where alignments and deities do not have to correspond.

And yes; Kelemvor will turn this characters soul into a brick in the wall of the faithless.

Just like he did to people that had that other feat unless the deity themselves personally intervened.

[RickAllison]

Yes this is 5E where alignments and deities do not have to correspond.

And yes; Kelemvor will turn this characters soul into a brick in the wall of the faithless.

Just like he did to people that had that other feat unless the deity themselves personally intervened.

And for this reason, I would recommend to OP that they talk about another god appearing to the PC later on. Some gods that I picked up from the 3.5e book Frostburn: Hleid (NG), Aengrist (LG), Ulutiu (LN), and Telchur (CN). Hleid is a particularly good pick for OP, I think.

Spoiler: Hleid

Show

Hleid was once the primary deity of uldras, but some tribal humans who live in the frostfell revere her as well. Many centuries ago, she was struck down by Iborighu, her cruel and sadistic halfbrother. Her worshipers are still few and far between, but are slowly regaining their foothold in the frostfell. Druids, rangers, sorcerers, and wizards often venerate Hleid, but her most devout minions are the rimefi re witches of the polar seas. Her symbol is a jagged triangle surrounding a vortex of blue fire. She appears as a ghostly, matronly uldra woman who wears simple rustic clothing and carries an upraised trident on which several birds roost. Traditionally, she was the patron of the animals of the frostfell and the guardian of cold magic, but Iborighu’s betrayal left her scarred and embittered. The new Hleid still rewards her allies with kindness, but is no longer as slow to react to cruelty and wickedness with the same

[Aett_Thorn]

I could see a way for your character to work within the parameters that you've set up, and still 'worship' Auril. Remember that many of the Gods of Fury are also quite happy to take appeasements. People regularly visit shrines of Umberlee before long sea voyages to try to ward off her negative impacts on the trip. I could see people in storm-prone areas to have shrines to Talos so as to ask for him to spare them.

For your character, he/she is the race's sort of 'intermediary' to Auril. Giving gifts from the people to try to buy off Auril's wrath for the winter season. Have your character be more of a "it would be wise not to anger my goddess" type of character, rather than a "you WILL fear my goddess" type of character.

[Shann]

Thanks everyone, the answers have been very helpful. I'm still thinking, but it seems like the easiest way is just helping people get through the winters by appeasing Auril. That sounds good-natured enough. I'll also take a look at the Frostburn/Frostfell deities too because they do sound pretty interesting (assuming I can use them).

[Naanomi]

Thanks everyone, the answers have been very helpful. I'm still thinking, but it seems like the easiest way is just helping people get through the winters by appeasing Auril. That sounds good-natured enough. I'll also take a look at the Frostburn/Frostfell deities too because they do sound pretty interesting (assuming I can use them).

Note that while Ulutiu was in Frostburn, he originated as a Forgotten Realms god from 2e

[Honest Tiefling]

Note that while Ulutiu was in Frostburn, he originated as a Forgotten Realms god from 2e

He is also in the 3rd edition book, Faiths and Panethons if that would convince your DM more. It also includes his dogma which...Might have some issues with your PC, since it demands that there is no leadership other then Ulutiu's clerics and to kill anyone who uses magic that doesn't originate with Ulutiu. Since your character has racial magic, this might be a problem.

[lebefrei]

As others have said, if you teach people to respect and fear the winter, without directly being frightening yourself, you may be able to worship an evil goddess. You're spreading fear of her and her power, which she would be pleased with, while also doing your own brand of good. If you had people giving offerings and sacrifices (in many cultures, sacrificing animals to gods was not considered evil) to her to appease her wintry wrath, you could definitely find yourself in her favor without spreading any evil.

As a DM I think I'd allow this, but I'd likely throw roleplaying challenges in your path related to it as you grew in power, as your goddess may begin to demand things of you that you are unwilling to do. Let's say that you've been encouraging a fear of winter and a tithe of gold or animal blood to have an easier winter. Well, what if you're commanded by her to punish a town that has given no offerings, and instead has just hunkered down for winter, in defiance of her?

[Malifice]

Pretty much all religions are predicated on spreading fear of your God.

God-fearing is a word for a reason you know.

[Contrast]

This would also require your and your DMs buy in but Auril could just be using you.

You could be a some sort of unique position to grant her more power and influence as part of some scheme so she has granted you power but will drop it once you've achieved whatever her goal is/you refuse her demands.

A slightly easier solution would just be to not play a class which demands your abilities originate from her. You don't need to play a cleric to play a religious person. I'm not entirely clear but you implied the powers were just racial abilities and not even really connected to her. Even if she created/empowered your race but that doesn't necessarily mean she cares about specific individuals (if an elf turns their back on the gods they don't suddenly lose their darkvision/etc). As such you can believe whatever you like about her and carry on as you see fit - you wouldn't be right but I rarely play characters who are always right