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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Tips on running away to avoid a TPK

    Sacrifice the other party members to the fiend. It's not a tpk if one of you makes it out.
    I am the flush of excitement. The blush on the cheek. I am the Rouge!

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Tips on running away to avoid a TPK

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkVIIIMarc View Post
    I knew there was a good chance of finding the Baylor (I think it is) in there or the 17th level Power Word Kill having spell caster we thought was the big bad guy. The party either misunderstood or something and we went in. Our goal was to close a portal which is presumably in the room the Baylor is trying to get at us from. We need to get our Cleric into the room for that.

    How does his teleport capability work? We essentially came down some skinny passageways and down a bunch of stairs. More than 120 feet. Can the Baylor teleport and displace rock without killing himself?

    Far as leaving someone behind I am kinda attached to the Bard (my character lol). But we do have a 1,000 GP diamond and a history with some Clerics of Pelor who can reincarnate folks. This assumes we can't use Revivify which the Cleric has for, um, logistical reasons like a Baylor standing on the body.
    You should maybe check with others here, go see Balor's sheet (although that's metagaming) and ask your DM out-of-game how it would rule it...
    But note that he can only teleport "in an unoccupied space it can see".
    Meaning that...
    - as a DM, I would certainly rule that he can only teleport in a place big enough for it to fit "normally" (at worse crouching or lying).
    - however "flexible" your DM may be with the aforementioned point, the important, unescapable bit is "it can see". Meaning that any spell or effect that would block its view will hugely limit his ability to catch up with your party.
    Beyond that, anything I suggested would still have a chance to work.

    If really someone had to stay behind, it should be...
    - Either someone that can reach a speed per turn that surpasses 130 feet per turn (basically only a Hasted Longstrided Monk or someone mounting a Phantom Steed -provided there is a way big enough to mount-)...
    - Or someone that has Phantasmal Force known and available to cast (by far your best chance of "stopping" it, since it has "only" +5 bonus to those INT saves)...
    - Or someone that can be Warding Bonded on top of great AC (just Dodging) but is ok with losing his character, because you cannot really expect to survive if you can't escape (unless such a character manages to land a Suggestion on the creature such as "leave me alone", or any other WIS-save spell among those that I suggested like Slow/Hypnotic Pattern/Fear).

    Honestly, if you want more useful advice, we'd need a much more accurate context...
    1. How much do you know about your dungeon you are in (other monsters? knowledge of alternative exits? How many turns you expect are needed to reach an exit?)
    2. What is your party composition?
    3. In what shape is your party currently (clearly: what are the cantrips and spells that can still be used from anyone in the party)?
    Last edited by Citan; 2017-10-13 at 01:52 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Tips on running away to avoid a TPK

    Anyone play Out of the Abyss? Been to Scoobidoobopbop town?

    Yeah, you run the heck away. Especially after a fight.

    fog cloud gives you a chance to break line of sight - right before a branch is a good point. Don't bother with illusions. If you're dealing with a DM that likes clever players, the thunderwave to collapse a corridor is a good idea, but use it early, since it'll give away your position.

    Alternatively, you get part of your party to Wild Goose Chase the fiend around, while your cleric does the Portal Sealing thing. If the fiend doesn't disappear, godspeed.

    If said demon is still in front of the portal, One high risk option is to run up and thunderwave the thing, and hope to hades it fails the save (not likely). Then seal it.
    Why yes, Warlock is my solution for everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by obryn View Post
    Active Abilities are great because you - the player - are demonstrating your Dwarvenness or Elfishness. You're not passively a dwarf, you're actively dwarfing your way through obstacles.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Tips on running away to avoid a TPK

    Probably just a major image. Send the rogue to investigate.

    (Then run.)

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Crusher's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tips on running away to avoid a TPK

    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    Traditional solution is to run for a while until you find a narrow bridge, then lure it on the bridge (wizards work like bait, Shield helps with survivability somewhat. Don't forget few taunts!), then blast the bridge with Shatter or similar spell. The wizard will just have to remember to run after the demon falls instead of standing there, looking tired, that whip has a nasty reach. It doesn't matter that the demon has wings, it won't use them to slow down its fall.

    On the bright side, if the demon takes the wizard down with him, the wizard will propably return in few sessions with a power boost and wardrobe change.
    I agree almost entirely. The one nitpick is that Tolkien's balrog's cannot be said to definitely have wings. Everyone assumes they do, but if you read that section again he's remarkably vague in how he describes it, and doesn't say if it has wings or not.
    I don't know that I believe that *anyone's* 100% a ****, ma'am.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Orc in the Playground
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    Nov 2016

    Default Re: Tips on running away to avoid a TPK

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe the Rat View Post
    Anyone play Out of the Abyss? Been to Scoobidoobopbop town?

    Yeah, you run the heck away. Especially after a fight.

    fog cloud gives you a chance to break line of sight - right before a branch is a good point. Don't bother with illusions. If you're dealing with a DM that likes clever players, the thunderwave to collapse a corridor is a good idea, but use it early, since it'll give away your position.

    Alternatively, you get part of your party to Wild Goose Chase the fiend around, while your cleric does the Portal Sealing thing. If the fiend doesn't disappear, godspeed.

    If said demon is still in front of the portal, One high risk option is to run up and thunderwave the thing, and hope to hades it fails the save (not likely). Then seal it.
    You may be onto something.

    Instead of attacking it with Thunderwave perhaps I should attack the ceiling above it. The DM did say it was thrashing around tearing things up trying to get through that doorway.

    If I collapse the ceiling ita not like ae can get to the portal, but at least this guy is dead.

    Wonder what the chances are of the collapsing ceiling killing my Bard. I've got a Dex of 18 so I may make the save.
    Last edited by MarkVIIIMarc; 2017-10-13 at 06:02 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: Tips on running away to avoid a TPK

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Don't forget that the Wizard must speak some sort of epic phrase to the demon.
    "You shall be momentarily incovenienced!"

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Feb 2016

    Default Re: Tips on running away to avoid a TPK

    Quote Originally Posted by Citan View Post
    Now for a true, honest question: would you as a player or DM, in any game following "fluff-conventions" from D&d books, expect a Wizard to be able to recognize either of those creatures "just because he studies magic"? If yes, at which level? If not, would you still give a chance with appropriate roll (Arcana I'd say)?
    In a high magic world, where at least legends of demons and devils should be pretty common, I'd probably allow Arcana, Religion, or maybe even History to identify the monster.

    In a low magic world, the kind I prefer to run, at best the creature would only be identifiable as an X (being its type), and they would infer by its description that it happens to be a large and likely powerful one of those.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: Tips on running away to avoid a TPK

    Quote Originally Posted by Citan View Post
    Now for a true, honest question: would you as a player or DM, in any game following "fluff-conventions" from D&d books, expect a Wizard to be able to recognize either of those creatures "just because he studies magic"?
    Sure, why not? Arcana check? History Check? Lore check?
    If yes, at which level?
    Nothing fluff about it. Anyone can do an Int based check, I'd offer a DC of 14 or 15 unless there are already legends about this particular demon that are involved in the story, then a 10-12 DC.

    Would you just "physically describe" the creature, or directly say things like "this feel like too formidable an opponent for you"?
    Physically describe, and I might even do a Wisdom check (Insight) for one or two in terms of "I've got a bad feeling about this" or some such.
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkVIIIMarc View Post
    Our goal was to close a portal which is presumably in the room the Baylor is trying to get at us from. We need to get our Cleric into the room for that.
    So your mission is "close portal" not "defeat very powerful demon." Use your wits.

    How does his teleport capability work?
    If it's a Balor, it can use its action, rather than attacking, to move to anywhere it can see within 120 feet.

    Far as leaving someone behind I am kinda attached to the Bard (my character lol). But we do have a 1,000 GP diamond and a history with some Clerics of Pelor who can reincarnate folks. This assumes we can't use Revivify which the Cleric has for, um, logistical reasons like a Baylor standing on the body.
    As long as you close the portal, I suspect you have accomplished your mission. The trick is to evade/avoid and survive to enjoy your feelings of accomplishment.

    FWIW, if the DM is playing this straight from the book, pit fiend uses a mace, balor uses a whip and sword ... so I think it's a balor(Demon). But maybe not. Could be a pit fiend(Devil).

    Low level spell "fog cloud" does a nice job of obscuring vision/view. I used it quite a bit with my Tempest Cleric to break up large groups of mooks with missile weapons.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-10-14 at 09:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Jan 2017
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    Saint Louis

    Default Re: Tips on running away to avoid a TPK

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkVIIIMarc View Post
    Working our way through a dungeon we killed a couple devils, and well, this giant humanoid shaped devil with a whip and giant sword has appeared.

    Besides it being huge we have reason to believe it is strong enough to boss around a 17+ level Warlock. We're level 5, it is time to flee.

    The biggest thing working against this demon is its size. It may have to bust its way through some smaller passages to chaise us.

    We have a Bard, Wizard, Ranger, Rogue, Cleric and Fighter.

    Any tips or tricks besides not being the slowest PC? I have Thunderwave at my disposal to maybe collapse walls and a bag of 1000 ball bearings. Think either will be helpful?
    Throw something random on the ground and say "smoke bomb" as nothing happens and the enemy is trying to figure out IF something is supposed to even happen... You're already running away.

    Sometimes you need to surprise the DM in order to get stuff done (or just make them laugh). If the DM doesn't know how to respond then the monsters won't know how to respond...

    Spoiler
    Show
    Last edited by Deleted; 2017-10-14 at 05:01 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    theMycon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tips on running away to avoid a TPK

    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    It doesn't matter that the demon has wings, it won't use them to slow down its fall.
    .
    Metaphorical wings don't give much lift. Smoke is notorious for not even being able to support it's own weight unless there's a nearby source of heat.
    If it's not obvious, insert a after my post.

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