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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    This is getting me quite concerned, as a person who one day hopes to be in the industry is this chase for Graphics. Im not talking about Aesthetics (Aesthetics>Graphics in the longrun anyway), but I feel like this has become a tumor for the industry.

    Only about 10% of big AAA games budgets even GO into programming anymore, with massive ART budgets, which makes sense.
    Although you can algorithm some textures away (Which also cost money to develop and purchase), more polygons and lines=More money for a guy to manually make them.

    Graphics wear off, and then look sub par in just a few years after release, with each new graphical release making every series of graphics before it look chunky and old (Or just touch a wall in a strange way and clip through it).

    But at the same time you can't STOP trying to raise this arbitrary bar because its like a cold war. if one company makes the graphics prettier and then you didn't, well now you look chunky or old.

    I was just thinking about a Game Like Max Pain. That was pretty indie in development. But now you can't do that sort of thing with 3D games because the cost requirement is so high in order to compete in that market.

    This is gonna get the whole industry to collapse if this continues. This model is unsustainable (And already is). Either games will have to become MUCH more expensive, or they will have to sell it piece by piece...oh wait.
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Until the AAA game market crashes, nothing is going to change. At some point it's going to implode under the weight of massive budgets, microtransactions and lootboxes.

    I'm with you in the camp that Art Direction (Aesthetics, as you said) is much more important that Art Quality (number of polygons, quality of textures, etc.) There are some older games that still look really good today because they had good art direction when they came out. I'd much rather play a game where the graphics are clear, consistent and good than one with brand-new top-of-the-line garbage.

    Of course, part of the problem that the games you see this stuff in the most, usually AAA shooters and sports titles...pour so much into graphics because they don't do much to change the gameplay. I don't play these titles personally, but I don't think the gameplay of Madden or Call of Duty changes that much between iterations. But these are the biggest games, your giant hits that demand big budgets, but only need them to push the graphical envelope, because they don't have anything else in the quiver, so to speak.

    However though, I think we're getting closer to some kind of plateau, where graphics are just going hit a wall because they can't get any better without looking wrong somehow. Where that'll leave these graphical powerhouse franchises I don't know. But like I said, I don't really play these kinds of games.

    I guess I'm rambling. The games I play are as graphical as they need to be. X-Com 2 has great graphics without going overboard. Final Fantasy XIV has great graphics for an MMO, again, without going overboard. And games like Cuphead or Transformers: Devastation prove you don't need ridiculously advanced graphics if your presentation is up to snuff.
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Yeah, I'm with Hunter Noventa. This unsustainable chase after more and more realistic graphics isn't going to stop until a large part of the industry implodes because of it.

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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    I think the bigger problem is that this is caused by consumer demand, then somekind of enforced market. The demand for good graphics is higher then the one for gameplay
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    I think the bigger problem is that this is caused by consumer demand, then somekind of enforced market. The demand for good graphics is higher then the one for gameplay
    There is that. There are too many people buying the AAA graphical powerhouses to not keep making the better andbettter, because if you don't make your graphics better, someone else will.

    So...we can blame the terrible stereotype of the mountain dew-swilling 'brogamer' who only plays Madden and Call of Duty.
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    If only AAA games weren't as fun.

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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Noventa View Post
    There is that. There are too many people buying the AAA graphical powerhouses to not keep making the better andbettter, because if you don't make your graphics better, someone else will.

    So...we can blame the terrible stereotype of the mountain dew-swilling 'brogamer' who only plays Madden and Call of Duty.
    Well yes but Its important not to just pick the easy targets. In a sense its a bit like "Teh Casuals" which is partly true and partly isn't.

    You are correct that this WILL lead to a crash, but a crash piloted by the consumers in a sense. So my fear is that after the crash it will just be steered that way again and again repeatedly.

    The only other way would be to really stop paying for lootboxes. Even in Hearthstone, even cosmetic ones. ESPECIALLY cosmetic ones.
    Loot boxes has to be a practice thats abandoned and scorned no matter WHAT (Also Season passes, MicroDLC paid mods and more). Not JUST from an gameplay perspective, but from a long term economic one.

    If loot boxes go away, then the market would be forced to charge for ingame stuff directly, and then eventually unwilling to pay those rising costs.

    Thus working this bottom up.

    Of course Im ALSO seeing a rise of what I call "Grind em ups". Using grinding as a way of making those art assets last longer as a substitute (Or worsener) for gameplay.

    Again fundementally we just have to drop this habit as consumers. AGGRESSIVELY. This is the Narcotic of the industry.
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Thing is, it's not even really a purely consumer driven thing. Average Joe Schmo gamer doesn't care about graphics beyond "It looks good". A lot of graphical budgets go to small, barely noticeable things like applying physics to hair strands or individual blades of grass, **** the average consumer will barely notice if they do at all.

    It's a vicious cycle more in the production side of things than the consumer. The developers get a huge budget, so naturally they use ALL the budget. They only NEED a certain amount of it for core mechanics, so the rest is used essentially pushing the limits of what can be one for funsies. Of course, publishers note the cost and then use that as an excuse to push tiered payment and microtransactions to make more money, make way more money than they need to make a profit (despite the myth, $60 a pop still pays for a game that sells reasonably well), give a large(r) budget to that team for the sequel, and the cycle starts bigger and badder next time.

    The problem with the AAA game industry exists at ALL levels, and can't really be fixed by any one segment.

    It's going to get way worse before it gets better, particularly if enough people start "dropping the narcotic", forcing publishers to think of new and worse ways to **** over the average consumer who's just looking for a fun game to play. The solution is not as simple as "don't buy it" until the problem with microtransactions gets to the point that the average person starts noticing how manipulative it is (which thankfully may be soon, given games journalism at large is finally starting to report on it).

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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    I honestly wouldn't worry about it. Reality overlay games are going to take a lot of money that goes to consoles now within the next decade, and are going to have their own problems.

    Would you really rather sit in a room and play final fantasy when you could go larp one in real life by overlaying it on a set of glasses? Or play a first person shooter when you can shoot each other in a field?
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I honestly wouldn't worry about it. Reality overlay games are going to take a lot of money that goes to consoles now within the next decade, and are going to have their own problems.

    Would you really rather sit in a room and play final fantasy when you could go larp one in real life by overlaying it on a set of glasses? Or play a first person shooter when you can shoot each other in a field?
    The chances of VR/AR games taking over the industry to that degree are about the same as EA's CEO renouncing all his worldly possessions and entering a monastery.

    They're entirely different beasts, and they will have mostly different audiences. LARPing and laser tag(/paintball/air soft/whatever the fad is now) haven't killed video games, I'm not sure why you think VR LARPing and laser tag will.

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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Thing is, it's not even really a purely consumer driven thing. Average Joe Schmo gamer doesn't care about graphics beyond "It looks good".
    Nope. As a guy who does market research, Graphical quality is the primary determinator of purchase for gamers. Its also the easiest aspect to market and to sell.
    "Why Should I buy X2 when I already have X1" often enough is answered with "Because X2 has better graphics" in the mind of the consumer.

    Games Journalists also owe pretty much all their money and cash dependence on Big Developers, their "Exposure" will only go so far when the Adds for the Season Pass elite lootcrate is plastered to their sides.

    You are correct, that only a small part of the budget goes into the actual game development, which speaks to peoples lack of interest in it. If you wanna make allot of money make a big fancy nothing with simple gameplay and that will sell more then any amount of complexity.

    Its just like Hollywood Movies in a sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Would you really rather sit in a room and play final fantasy when you could go larp one in real life by overlaying it on a set of glasses? Or play a first person shooter when you can shoot each other in a field?
    I would just honestly Larp in real life with my imagination, and I kinda can't explore entire valleys or have entire fortresses to explore worth of content in real life.

    This does not solve this in any way.
    Last edited by Scowling Dragon; 2017-10-13 at 12:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Nope. As a guy who does market research, Graphical quality is the primary determinator of purchase for gamers. Its also the easiest aspect to market and to sell.
    As a market researcher you should also be aware of the psychology that boils down to "People think they want X, but they really don't". Ask one of the people in your focus groups what "graphics" actually means, and see if you get a meaningful response. It's not even a term used internally when designing a game, so the results should boil down to "I want a game that looks good (or the advertisement tells me looks better than the competition).". "Looks good" and "good graphics" are not synonymous. Marvel vs Capcom Infinite has objectively better "graphics" (polycount and what have you) than Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, but I don't think we need to debate over which one actually LOOKS better.

    There's a good (recently re-released) Jimquisition on the subject, based on talks by Malcolm Gladwell. Damn Fine Coffee,

    TL;DW: You're the problem, and focus group driven design in general is the plague killing the industry.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2017-10-13 at 01:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Well yes but Its important not to just pick the easy targets. In a sense its a bit like "Teh Casuals" which is partly true and partly isn't.

    You are correct that this WILL lead to a crash, but a crash piloted by the consumers in a sense. So my fear is that after the crash it will just be steered that way again and again repeatedly.

    The only other way would be to really stop paying for lootboxes. Even in Hearthstone, even cosmetic ones. ESPECIALLY cosmetic ones.
    Loot boxes has to be a practice thats abandoned and scorned no matter WHAT (Also Season passes, MicroDLC paid mods and more). Not JUST from an gameplay perspective, but from a long term economic one.

    If loot boxes go away, then the market would be forced to charge for ingame stuff directly, and then eventually unwilling to pay those rising costs.

    Thus working this bottom up.

    Of course Im ALSO seeing a rise of what I call "Grind em ups". Using grinding as a way of making those art assets last longer as a substitute (Or worsener) for gameplay.

    Again fundementally we just have to drop this habit as consumers. AGGRESSIVELY. This is the Narcotic of the industry.
    That's just the thing though, it USED to be that everything you get in lootboxes, in games that have them, were just thing you'd earn for playing the game, or in the case of cosmetics, stuff you'd buy directly. You could go 'hey I want this alternate skin for this character i like' and pay a dollar to get it. Some games still use that approach. But lootboxes took that away, and replaced it with effectively gambling for what you actually want. And let's not even mention the AAA games where you can now pay to win in multiplayer modes, like Battlefront II.

    It's going to lead to some kind of crash, and it's hard to say who will come out of it. There are still companies that make games, and the DLC is actually worth the money you pay for it. Heck, Firaxis still makes honest-to-god expansion packs, you just don't see that much anymore.

    And I suppose it is rude to call out a certain stereotype as problematic, they have every right to enjoy the games they enjoy after all. The problem is that amount of money they have means they are the ones targetted by these practices, and they are the ones who pay into it the most.

    Jim Sterling, as divisive as he can be, has been talking about this stuff a lot recently, given what NBA 2k18, Battlefront II and Shadow of War are doing. But he's also brought up how the $60 price tag on most games doesn't buy you a full game anymore. At some point, games are going to go up and start costing more than $60, because the costs will just get too high, or preople will stop buying all the DLC.

    And/Or we have another Video Game Industry crash and see who picks up the pieces.
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    The chances of VR/AR games taking over the industry to that degree are about the same as EA's CEO renouncing all his worldly possessions and entering a monastery.

    They're entirely different beasts, and they will have mostly different audiences. LARPing and laser tag(/paintball/air soft/whatever the fad is now) haven't killed video games, I'm not sure why you think VR LARPing and laser tag will.
    If you were a pinball player you might have said the same once, or poker, or any other game that still exists but has been reduced in popularity that way.

    Will consoles still exist? Sure. But the reason larping and paintball are not as dominant as video games is the same reason board games aren't. They cost a lot of money for a single activity, can't be done in public, and don't transport well.

    RL has the best graphics we are ever going to get, throwing some transparent godzillas and dinosaurs into it for MMOs makes for a cheaper and better looking game. One device that let's you play multiple games has always replaced single devices, and it makes it easier to get groups to play if you have computers designating hits instead of the honor system.
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    If you were a pinball player you might have said the same once, or poker, or any other game that still exists but has been reduced in popularity that way.

    Will consoles still exist? Sure. But the reason larping and paintball are not as dominant as video games is the same reason board games aren't. They cost a lot of money for a single activity, can't be done in public, and don't transport well.

    RL has the best graphics we are ever going to get, throwing some transparent godzillas and dinosaurs into it for MMOs makes for a cheaper and better looking game. One device that let's you play multiple games has always replaced single devices, and it makes it easier to get groups to play if you have computers designating hits instead of the honor system.
    Are you talking specifically consoles? Consoles are ALREADY on the decline, and it has nothing to do with VR. PC gaming has risen back to prominence through sheer availability, with handheld consoles (that you conveniently ignore and sidestep every single on of the issues you mention with other consoles) still being quite profitable.

    What you also ignore is that paintball, again, has a different target audience than most video games. This isn't a "newfangled tech are fads" thing (though given VR has been pushed and failed on three separate occasions now due to technical limitations...many of which still exist, that's a potentially fair point), it's very simple demographics. There is some overlap between people who like playing Final Fantasy or Halo and those who would play a VR fantasy game or VR paintball, and I have no doubt if done well they could very well take off (Pokemon Go is proof of that), but the chances of a largely active activity replacing a mostly sedentary one are slim because the audiences are different, or at least where the overlap exists the two aren't mutually exclusive activities.

    And if you're talking about creating existing style games but with VR...the tech is a long, LOOOONG way from getting to that point. The interface needed just isn't there.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2017-10-13 at 01:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    TL;DW: You're the problem, and focus group driven design in general is the plague killing the industry.
    Im not advocating that game design, Im advocating consumer restraint. Dont demonize a faceless megacorp and try to improve yourself FIRST.
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    I don't know how the AAA indrustry works, but in some ways, I'm glad that someone is technologically pushing the envelope. Good graphics are worthless without art direction, sure, but the tools that AAA developers used to have get into the hands of other companies.

    I'd also like to point out that Hellblades looks gorgeous and isn't an AAA game. It's more limited than many titles, but I think it should definitely be examined.
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Improve myself how? I buy about two new games a year at most (this year it was Divinity Original Sin 2 and...does Overwatch count as new?), and have very rarely bought into the lootbox scheme (I must admit some shame, I purchased the new player super duper special bundle for Heroes of the Storm last year, ono), I'm already not the customer these guys are chasing.

    Thing is, there's only so much I can do, while there's a LOT of power in "faceless megacorps" hands. If the blame lies partially with the consumers, it's still only about 20% "our" fault for the situation being as bad as it is.

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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Thing is, there's only so much I can do, while there's a LOT of power in "faceless megacorps" hands. If the blame lies partially with the consumers, it's still only about 20% "our" fault for the situation being as bad as it is.
    Overwatch uses a lootbox scheme.

    Again, its blaming the beer company not the drinker. I just believe in the power of the individual over that of government regulation. I dont believe us to be helpless children that need to be babied.

    I watch Jim Sterling sometimes as well, like that World of tanks debacle. Well the noteworthy thing was the people that defended the P2W ammo. Those guys suprised me way more then crummy corporate regulations.
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Overwatch uses a lootbox scheme.
    So does just about every game right now, that's kind of the point. They aren't profiting from that if you don't purchase the boxes, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Again, its blaming the beer company not the drinker. I just believe in the power of the individual over that of government regulation. I dont believe us to be helpless children that need to be babied.
    Who said anything about government regulation in this thread?

    Though in this case, it really should already be regulated. Casinos are regulated, online poker is regulated, why are lootboxes not regulated?

    Regardless, the individual has zero power. A community might have some (a small sum of some) but you essentially need more people than make up the corporation to combat the kind of momentum they have, or at least a very large core of VERY dedicated people. Believing otherwise is just naive.

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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Regardless, the individual has zero power.
    And a community is made of individuals, therefore nobody has any power.

    That is an ideology of helpnessness and not being proactive.

    Also buying games with loot boxes still encourages loot box creation.

    Also are we to regulate gumball machines and crane games then as well? Regulate Quarter munching arcade games?
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Though in this case, it really should already be regulated. Casinos are regulated, online poker is regulated, why are lootboxes not regulated?
    Actually - it was just recently ruled that loot-boxes are definitely not gambling because you always get SOMETHING.

    Frankly - I definitely agree with the ruling. If it had been ruled as gambling, where would it end? For a physical gaming example - would MtG card packs be gambling since you sometimes end up with more valuable cards? Baseball cards? What about that old "Puppy Surprise" toy where you get somewhere between 3-5 puppies? etc.

    The slippery slope argument is overused, but in this case it applies.

    As to the premise of the thread - I think that we've already gone that way. Go back 15-20 years to when 3-d was new and it was WAY more about the graphics. Sure - less $ was involved and the industry was smaller - but each year the graphics made huge leaps forward and no one bought the old crappy looking stuff.

    Now - while AAA games still work on better graphics, most developers can be comfortable on the other side of the uncanny valley and are better off working on design/polish than raw graphics.
    Last edited by CharonsHelper; 2017-10-13 at 02:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    And a community is made of individuals, therefore nobody has any power.
    You're acting as though the two are equivalent, for some reason. One person does not matter. 5 people matter infinitesimally less. A million people matter somewhat. A billion matter more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Also buying games with loot boxes still encourages loot box creation.
    The alternative is to stop buying games entirely. Therein lies the catch-22, if I did not care enough about playing games to keep buying them, I would then not care enough to stop buying them.

    Quote Originally Posted by CharonsHelper View Post
    Actually - it was just recently ruled that loot-boxes are definitely not gambling because you always get SOMETHING.

    Frankly - I definitely agree with the ruling. If it had been ruled as gambling, where would it end? For a physical gaming example - would MtG card packs be gambling since you sometimes end up with more valuable cards? Baseball cards? What about that old "Puppy Surprise" toy where you get somewhere between 3-5 puppies? etc.

    The slippery slope argument is overused, but in this case it applies.
    The slippery slope works in both directions, however. If casinos then start handing out booby prizes to gamblers, would they then be deregulated?

    Somehow I doubt it.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2017-10-13 at 02:34 PM.

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    [QUOTE=Rynjin;22474524]You're acting as though the two are equivalent, for some reason. One person does not matter. 5 people matter infinitesimally less. A million people matter somewhat. A billion matter more.

    1,000,000*0=0
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by CharonsHelper View Post
    Actually - it was just recently ruled that loot-boxes are definitely not gambling because you always get SOMETHING.

    Frankly - I definitely agree with the ruling. If it had been ruled as gambling, where would it end? For a physical gaming example - would MtG card packs be gambling since you sometimes end up with more valuable cards? Baseball cards? What about that old "Puppy Surprise" toy where you get somewhere between 3-5 puppies? etc.

    The slippery slope argument is overused, but in this case it applies.

    As to the premise of the thread - I think that we've already gone that way. Go back 15-20 years to when 3-d was new and it was WAY more about the graphics. Sure - less $ was involved and the industry was smaller - but each year the graphics made huge leaps forward and no one bought the old crappy looking stuff.

    Now - while AAA games still work on better graphics, most developers can be comfortable on the other side of the uncanny valley and are better off working on design/polish than raw graphics.
    Lootboxes are not technically gambling, but they touch on all the same pleasure centers in your brain that gambling does. The anticipation, the fanfare, the randomness, it's all just like a slot machine. In a way it's worse than gambling, because you can't even get your money back if you 'win'. But it preys on the same kind of addictive personalities that casinos do.
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    You're acting as though the two are equivalent, for some reason. One person does not matter. 5 people matter infinitesimally less. A million people matter somewhat. A billion matter more.
    1,000,000*0=0
    Cute, I guess. Do you have anything useful to add or are you just done contributing?
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2017-10-13 at 02:39 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Noventa View Post
    Lootboxes are not technically gambling, but they touch on all the same pleasure centers in your brain that gambling does. The anticipation, the fanfare, the randomness, it's all just like a slot machine. In a way it's worse than gambling, because you can't even get your money back if you 'win'. But it preys on the same kind of addictive personalities that casinos do.
    And so does any sort of random booster pack.

    I've known people who feel that way about antique hunting at garage sales.

    Heck - Starbucks coffee is pretty addictive, and it's physically addictive rather than merely psychologically so.

    In the end - will some people be stupid about it? Yes. But you can't outlaw stupid.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Cute, I guess. Do you have anything useful to add or are you just done contributing?

    I just disagree with you on an aggressively fundemental level. I find your ideology mysanthropic, and supports totalitarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fralex View Post
    A little condescending
    That pretty much sums up the Scowling Dragon experience.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    One thing to consider with graphics is its not totally driven by the game developers. Nvidia for instance will take a lot of the workload off of developers and do a lot of troubleshooting for them if the developers put the Nvidia Badge on their games startup. Obviously they want to justify their new cards and dazzle people with what they can do but at the same time they make sure that cards several generations old can run the games as well because that's where the bulk of the PC gamers are at.

    All in all I don't think the graphical race is out of control, it advances at a decent pace especially when you consider that visuals are what make the first impression and first impressions do matter when trying to make a sale.

    Really the bigger problem with games is monetization. Game price has been largely stagnant since the 90s yet the price to produce them has skyrocketed which has created the situation where you either make AAA games to catch as big of an audience as possible or go Indie and try to make the game for as cheap as possible. Companies that try to do something in between those two points usually go out of business or get bought up and turned into AAA studios. Loot boxes and DLC are also a direct result of trying to keep the base price of games down and while I don't really have much issue with DLC I do find lootboxes to be pretty despicable.

  30. - Top - End - #30
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    Default Re: Maybe we should stop chasing Graphics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    I just disagree with you on an aggressively fundemental level. I find your ideology mysanthropic, and supports totalitarianism.
    *Your strawman of my ideology.

    In my first post on the subject I even specifically said communities/large groups of people do have power.

    The problem is that power works in both directions. Corporations are not just one or a small group of people. They are quite large, hence why they have so much power.

    Don't believe me? Organize a protest of <Insert business here>. Invite nobody. Accept no help from others. Just you, alone, and a sign.

    Record results, tell me how that works out for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inarius View Post
    One thing to consider with graphics is its not totally driven by the game developers. Nvidia for instance will take a lot of the workload off of developers and do a lot of troubleshooting for them if the developers put the Nvidia Badge on their games startup. Obviously they want to justify their new cards and dazzle people with what they can do but at the same time they make sure that cards several generations old can run the games as well because that's where the bulk of the PC gamers are at.

    All in all I don't think the graphical race is out of control, it advances at a decent pace especially when you consider that visuals are what make the first impression and first impressions do matter when trying to make a sale.

    Really the bigger problem with games is monetization. Game price has been largely stagnant since the 90s yet the price to produce them has skyrocketed which has created the situation where you either make AAA games to catch as big of an audience as possible or go Indie and try to make the game for as cheap as possible. Companies that try to do something in between those two points usually go out of business or get bought up and turned into AAA studios. Loot boxes and DLC are also a direct result of trying to keep the base price of games down and while I don't really have much issue with DLC I do find lootboxes to be pretty despicable.


    Thing is, to loop back to the original topic, so much of the budget is spent on minuscule and largely unnoticeable graphical increases. That's WHY (or part of why, creating a new engine for every new game like some companies do is also a big issue) cost to produce is so much higher.

    Tiered pricing and DLC isn't so bad as a cost off-setter, but lootboxes and digital currency are just pure greed.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2017-10-13 at 03:06 PM.

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