4th edition!

[Fixer]

I am also hoping they lose the spells per day mechanic and move to a target number system for casting. That would prevent magic from being reliable artillery to more dynamic. Increasing the DC for future spells cast in a short period to prevent magic overload.

7 is really insane.

Isn't the whole idea of non-core material that it is optional?

From an official GM standpoint, I expect that what we GMs will be tested on in 4e will be the three core books and the four optional core books as opposed to just the three core books we are tested on now. I am only Herald level GM now but hope to move up later. With these new mechanics, I am wondering what I have to look forward to.

[Neek]

I just whipped up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4dventure

Contribute.

[Malek]

Could you please generally outline this system?

Talent system originates from D20 Modern - just look up Modern SRD and you'll have it.

[Machete]

If they can fix some item weight issues (pot, rope, tarp, and others I'm looking at you) and put out a 4.0 Rules Compendium then I'd be happy to convert.

Also, Warlock in Core. Corelock.

[Attilargh]

Could you please generally outline this system?

Every other level a character gains a talent, which is essentially a class-specific feat. For example, a Scoundrel sould take a talent to distract his opponents, a Noble might take one to provide a bonus to his allies and a Jedi might take on to deflect blaster bolts. In other words, it's a pool from where you pick your class abilities.

[Porthos]

BTW: For all you First Timers out there, don't worry about the agnst of Changing Editions.... It'll fade away soon enough. I've gone through this cycle many a time, and really, I just view it with detached bemusment now.

If you worry that all of your old books will be worthless, don't. You'll still be able to pull them off the shelf and get inspiration off of them (or,. at the very least, you'll be able to flog them on eBay).
If you're worried about spending more money on the hobby, don't. After all, what's the difference between plunking 30-40 bucks on a new PHB next May and plunking 30 bucks on the Newest Spalt/Sourcebook next May? Answer: Nothing at all.
If you're worried about being left behind, don't. You see, there will be some overlap (at least 18 months) as people transition from one system to the next. There will be plenty of time for you to hear from people you trust about the Pros and Cons of the New System.
And finally, if you are worried that this is "too soon", don't. If you look at most of the other game companies, you will see that most RPGs under go revisions at a much faster past than DnD ever did. 3.0 came out in August 2000. That'll be almost eight years between editions. Yeah, 3.5 came out in 2003. But that was such a minor change to the system as to not really be worth discussing. It wasn't even a change on the level of Second Edition Players Options.

Really, this is an exciting time to be a DnD geek. We all get to wonder and hope about Brand!New!Fresh!Things. And yes, 4E will contain Broken Builds and Ridiculously Abuseable Concepts. But that's only because every RPG known to mankind has them. You can only do so much with playtesting, after all.

Now will you be able to convert your Radically Twinked Out From Several Different Splatbooks PrC'd to the Max Character right away? Nope. Then again, you couldn't convert your Character Kited/Players Optioned up the wazoo Second Edition Character right away either. Eventually there will be enough splat/sourcebooks out there to satisfy the dreams of even the most ridiculous character concept.

So, in summary, buckle up and enjoy the rollercoaster ride. And don't let the agnst overcome you.

PS::::: People have been saying that they'll never buy ADnD/2nd Edition/Players Options/Third Edition/3.5 ever since TSR started revising the game over 25 years ago. Really, I've seen all of these arguments/complaints each and every time a new edition is announced. In fact, if you go trolling through USENET, you can find a lot of agnst/drama in the dnd newsgroup (rec.games.frp.dnd) at the time 3.0 was announced.

Really, go back and read them. It's quite funny to see the level of agnst that was running around at the time. If anything, it'll give you an idea of what to expect for the next 9 months.

[Dausuul]

Public demand says "we want Incarnum support".

It does? I haven't seen that much enthusiasm for MoI on these boards, certainly nothing like the burning passionate love people display for the Tome of Battle. I suppose the GitP forums might be atypical.

[Grey Paladin]

Every other level a character gains a talent, which is essentially a class-specific feat. For example, a Scoundrel sould take a talent to distract his opponents, a Noble might take one to provide a bonus to his allies and a Jedi might take on to deflect blaster bolts. In other words, it's a pool from where you pick your class abilities.

Thank you.

[Attilargh]

I just hope they rework the wizzard. I want no shopping list magic, no taking a nap every five spells, no being a one-man party, no dying to housecats. And I very much hope they rework the feats so that all are actually worth taking. (Dodge, Combat Casting, I'm looking at you.)

Ædit: Grey Paladin: You're welcome.

[blue_fenix]

Now taking all bets on how long before someone manages to create a pun-pun equivalent using only 4e books.

[yango]

I don't know about that. Knowing Wizards, the Core will be part of an SRD, while they'll make sure none of the "optional Core" will be in there. That way, if you want anything extra (like the maneuvers, kits, and stuff I'm expecting from "optional core"), you'll have to actually buy it.

They were pretty generous with the 3.5 SRD, with Psionics, UA Variants, and Divine Rules all in there, despite not being part of core. I don't even own the XPH, since the SRD is enough.

[Telonius]

BTW: For all you First Timers out there, don't worry about the agnst of Changing Editions.... It'll fade away soon enough. I've gone through this cycle many a time, and really, I just view it with detached bemusment now.

If you worry that all of your old books will be worthless, don't. You'll still be able to pull them off the shelf and get inspiration off of them (or,. at the very least, you'll be able to flog them on eBay).

Or, you can use them to beef up your arguments, ten years down the road, of why 3.5 was a superior system to D&D 5.0. And since nobody else will own them by that point, you'll win the argument automatically.

[Telonius]

Now taking all bets on how long before someone manages to create a pun-pun equivalent using only 4e books.

You mean he's not out already?

[Solo]

*sobs*

I just mastered 3.5.....

*sobs*

[Enzario]

In SW Saga, each class has around three lists of "talents" (aka talent trees) that it can choose from. For the jedi, for example, lightsaber block and other force powers are talents. Each class gains talents at the rate of one at each odd-numbered level, and most classes gain bonus feats at the same rate as a fighter does in 3.5 DnD. Basically, your talents are your class features, and feats are extensions of those, allowing for huge variety between characters of the same class. Obviously, with the huge amount of maneuvers and spells available to players, this will not exactly be the case, but I think it'll serve as a basis for the new system.

EDIT: grr, ninja'd

[Tellah]

Prepare for a similar experience with the Wizards logo slapped on.

Others have alluded to the capacity to "unlock" mechanics for online play through the use of codes to be printed in supplements. This alone, I think, will improve my enjoyment of online play, since my primary bone of contention with online platforms has been patchy support for non-core, non-OGL material. That, combined with a character generator that also supports non-core material, will make me a very happy DM indeed. I love D&D 3.5, but the time involved in generating NPCs and adventures drives me to drinking. A tool for automating that process will free up time better spent writing dialogue, descriptions, and side-plots.

[jamroar]

When they say levels now go up to 30 out of the box, do you suppose they mean the epic rules have been abolished/incorporated into core, or the game levels have been rebalanced/inflated so that level 30 == equivalent power level of a current level 20 character?

[Matthew]

Others have alluded to the capacity to "unlock" mechanics for online play through the use of codes to be printed in supplements. This alone, I think, will improve my enjoyment of online play, since my primary bone of contention with online platforms has been patchy support for non-core, non-OGL material. That, combined with a character generator that also supports non-core material, will make me a very happy DM indeed. I love D&D 3.5, but the time involved in generating NPCs and adventures drives me to drinking. A tool for automating that process will free up time better spent writing dialogue, descriptions, and side-plots.

Hey, I didn't say it would be the same, I said it would be similar. Anyway, what I'm really saying is hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

When they say levels now go up to 30 out of the box, do you suppose they mean the epic rules have been abolished/incorporated into core, or the game levels have been rebalanced/inflated so that level 30 == equivalent power level of a current level 20 character?

I suppose they've incorporated it in such a way so that challenges now go up to CR 30. Chances are, it's a little of both.

[Mad Wizard]

Personally, I hope that they make some sort of conversion thing for older books.

[Fixer]

Personally, I hope that they make some sort of conversion thing for older books.

If they do not do such a thing officially, you can expect someone to do something unofficially.

[Morty]

Huh. Looks like 4ed is gonna be released much sooner than 3ed. I don't know what to think about it yet, but I find the fact that concepts for 4ed were tested in ToB annoying.

[Porthos]

When they say levels now go up to 30 out of the box, do you suppose they mean the epic rules have been abolished/incorporated into core, or the game levels have been rebalanced/inflated so that level 30 == equivalent power level of a current level 20 character?

It all depends on how you intrepet this phrase (which is the source of the lvl 30 comments):

While there are changes in play (such as incorporating "epic-level play," with 30 levels instead of 20), they are described as "evolutionary" rather than "revolutionary."

I think that means that "epic level" will take place from 20-30, but who knows? We'll probably know more soon enough.

[Skyserpent]

Could be a fourth Core Rulebook? I dunno what that might entail tho...

EDIT: Nevermind... wow... 4rth edition huh?

[Eldred]

Here's a thought - when the books are released, will the Order of the Stick get another "We're being updated to 4e" comic?

If the books are incorporating Level 30, then the whole "Epic Level Handbook" may be incorporated into the three core books. If we're lucky...

[Porthos]

Personally, I hope that they make some sort of conversion thing for older books.

A (somewhat limited) conversion guide was made at the Second Edition/Third Edition transition. It wasn't perfect (to say the least), but it was somewhat useful. I'd be utterly shocked if something similar wasn't released next year.

[horseboy]

You mean he's not out already?

I was going to give them until Christmas, but yeah, you're probably right.

[Enzario]

Depending on how credible you consider this, you may or may not have quite a while to wait...

10 times the wait, 10 times the sales? how about 1/10 the loyal customers?

EDIT: actually, that article seems pretty old. bye bye, credibility!

[Attilargh]

Depending on how credible you consider this, you may or may not have quite a while to wait...

10 times the wait, 10 times the sales? how about 1/10 the loyal customers?

If I'm reading the address correctly, that was posted on April Fools' Day. The D30 reference was bit of a giveaway, considering how they tend to be pretty rare, and the release date isn't too credible either.

Funny, nonetheless.

[horseboy]

Depending on how credible you consider this, you may or may not have quite a while to wait...

10 times the wait, 10 times the sales? how about 1/10 the loyal customers?

EDIT: actually, that article seems pretty old. bye bye, credibility!

lol, d30 game mechanic.

[Porthos]

Depending on how credible you consider this, you may or may not have quite a while to wait...

10 times the wait, 10 times the sales? how about 1/10 the loyal customers?

EDIT: actually, that article seems pretty old. bye bye, credibility!

Check the posting date of that article.

EDIT: Don't worry about getting fooled. When I told a friend about 4E coming out soon last night he said I was wrong and referred me to that page. When I found it I had to have a small chuckle at his expense and let him know that he had been subject to a years old April Fools Joke.

Ahh the wonders of the internet where every day can (potentially) be April Fools Day (due to the presence of old content).