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Thread: 4th edition!

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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by ranger89 View Post
    Don't bother with the teaser for now. While it's strangely entertaining, it doesn't do anything more than tease.
    the fact also is, my pc is only downloading the top half of the teaser, odd. it does give you a first vieuw at people playing it, including the books.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlterForm View Post
    http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x...%204e%20https/


    That should let you into the album I stuck 'em in...

    my load time is dead now, and this is much faster than adding a bunch of image tags
    The album's private. I can't access it.
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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    Strange, I somehow managed to acces the old style homepage...

    EDIT: The first previews seem great. Weapon specialisation for fighters does seem good and more power to races too.
    Last edited by Ichneumon; 2007-08-16 at 06:14 PM.

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    The webpage is standing - I suggest you stard with "Design Development: Class" article - it has most interesting info so far.
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    Oh. My.

    I think I need to make a Sanity Check after the first few seconds of that teaser....

    The horror.... The horror.

    You all will understand when you see it....
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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    This was on the Dragon page when I brought it up.

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    Source: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dred/20070816a

    Welcome to Dragon
    by Bart Carroll and Chris Thomasson
    08/16/2007
    Dragon Editorial Archive



    For the past few years I’ve had the extreme privilege to serve as the D&D website producer. In fact, back in 1999 (after a stint teaching abroad) I moved to Seattle with the specific intention of one day working for Wizards of the Coast, the company producing both games I slavishly followed: Magic: the Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons. For several years, however, I first toiled in the salt mines of Microsoft, producing websites and online content for their game studios… well, actually it was a pretty copasetic environment there: soda was free, and at the time I thought it the height of good fortune to be paid to play video games on the clock. That is, until I finally landed a gig within WotC’s Online Media department in 2004, and have come to realize the true height of good fortune is playtesting D&D on the clock.

    When I first took over as producer for the D&D website, the directives were clear—online content should help support and promote the product releases. This was, after all, a marketing site first and foremost (though I did try to sneak in whatever “extra” content I could, taking pride in shepherding through the revised Tomb of Horrors and White Plume Mountain, among others).

    I say “was” a marketing website in the past tense. We’ve come to a new edition of the game, and thus to a new iteration of the website. Some things will remain the same. There will still be a marketing component, including the characters sheets, art galleries, Sage Advice answers, In the Works previews… and on, and on. In one sense, we’re not losing the tools or online content you’ve come to know and expect.

    A Brief Look Back...
    A little trip in the Wayback Machine shows just how far the D&D website has grown since its inception back in 2000, when it offered (appropriately enough) 3rd Edition previews. And for a look back at Wizards of the Coast’s website, check out the even earlier 1996 version. Gotta love those spinning, spinning coins…

    Past producers of the website have included Sue Cook, Julia Martin, and industry vet Steve Winter on the D&D Minis side, and I’d like to thank them for the work they’ve put into the online foundation that we’ve now built into the current website. Before I sign off, I’d also like to point out one more individual; through all of D&D’s producers, the site itself has always been in the hands of a single developer: Mark Jindra, who continues to grumble and rant, and always come up the best solutions for the website in the end.


    At the same time, we’re also quite pleased to be expanding—greatly—our online content beyond a robust marketing site. The website team itself has grown. Dragon and Dungeon magazines have arrived at their new online venue, with columns and features to start rolling out in October. And while D&D Insider—the name we’ve now given to the subscription part of the D&D website—will encompass the marketing and magazine content, there’s another online face as well.

    In the coming months, look for the Gleemax.com/DnD site to serve as a kind of hub for community content. This will include not just the message boards, but also blogs from individual members of R&D (as well as for columns, serving as their talk-back and commentary pages), D&D wikis, and even a repository for fan-generated content. Plus, we’re quite excited about some of the D&D Insider features that will live on the Gleemax side, including expansive new options for storing character and campaign information. For more on what’s in the works, check out part two of our inaugural editorial.

    The website is dead! Long live the website!

    --Bart Carroll

    So What’s Next?

    If you read Bart’s editorial, you know have a better idea where we've been and an inkling of the community features we'll be showcasing. There's a lot more to show, and you’ll just have to come back from time to time and see what’s up for yourself. But we would be poor hosts if we didn’t at least offer a taste of what’s to come.

    Bart already told you about the Gleemax/DnD site. We’re really excited about putting Gleemax’s functionality to the test. “But what,” you ask, “is this log-in thing? Why am I doing it? What does it mean?” Here’s the plan:

    Sometime in the spring, when all of D&D Insider’s digital components go live, we’ll begin charging a monthly subscription fee to access some of our online content. We don’t have final pricing details ready to share, but one subscription fee will cover all aspects of D&D Insider, including more than two print issues’ worth of editorial content each month. You’ll get access to the amazing set of tools D&D Insider will provide—the D&D Game Table, the D&D Character Creator, and the Dungeon Master’s Toolkit, details of which will be unveiled in the coming months. You’ll also get more of the great content you’ve come to expect from Dragon and Dungeon over the past umpteen-dozen years.

    In the meantime, we want to start showing you the type of editorial content you’ll get for your money, and help you understand what constitutes subscription-level content (that is, something you need an account to access). And that’s where the current log-in system fits in.

    Over these next few months, we’ll be keeping an eye on the things you like and don’t like, making adjustments based on your feedback. Feel free to drop us a line at dndinsider@wizards.com or post on the new Dragon and Dungeon forum. Your voice will help shape future content.

    Dungeon and Dragon magazines are industry titans, with storied histories. As the D&D game has evolved, so too have the magazines. Our goal going forward is to provide you with great content plus much more utility than print magazines can allow. Don’t believe me? Heck, both Chris Perkins and I started our careers in the industry on these magazines. And speaking for myself, I wouldn’t be walking this path again if I didn’t think it was worth it, or if I didn’t think we couldn’t do an even better job this time around. But I’m about as giddy as this kid when I think about what’s coming.

    Which leads me to the next few months. From now to the 4th Edition launch, Dragon is going to give you the latest 4th Edition developments. We’ve revamped the Design & Development column, which has run on the site now for some time, and we’re using it to show you now not only what is coming, but why and how. Several times each week, we’ll give a detailed look at one specific part of the new system, with commentary by the folks doing the design and development of the game. At the same time, Dragon will continue to bring you favorites such as Ecology articles, campaign setting support, and other great content written, as always, by members of the D&D community. You’ll see this in Dragon #360, which, among other things, includes a spectacular 360-degree panoramic view of the D&D game.

    Need adventures? Check out the new Dungeon pages for a sneak peek at issue #151, which also comes out in October. This issue heralds the return of Dungeoncraft. James Wyatt—D&D game designer, co-author of the Eberron Campaign Setting, and Eberron novelist—takes over as the new master of Dungeoncraft, and I can’t want to show what he’s up to.

    Then there’s the comics, the free maps, Sage Advice, all the stuff Bart already talked about, and more I'm probably forgetting. Every Monday we’ll have a weekly update to tell you what’s in store for D&D Insider in the coming week, as well as new editorial content every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. We’ll also use these newfangled tubes we call the “Interweb” to bring a new spin to classic D&D content. We’re looking at more innovative ways to leverage the technology at our disposal and bring your game to new heights of cool.

    So stick around. We’re just getting started here, and I can’t wait to show you what we’re gonna do next.

    --Chris Thomasson

    Last edited by Tokiko Mima; 2007-08-16 at 06:22 PM. Reason: Edit: correcting source!

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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    Oh. My.

    I think I need to make a Sanity Check after the first few seconds of that teaser....

    The horror.... The horror.

    You all will understand when you see it....
    please tell me, I can't open it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCOVertigo View Post
    Article detailing a playtest session.
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    Our staff is hard at work playtesting 4th Edition, and each week, we’ll give you a look inside one of our very own D&D games. These articles include plenty of homebrewed material that the players and DMs have made up to suit their own campaigns, just like your games, but we’ll be sure to point out when they’re stretching their creative muscles.

    Keep in mind that the game is still in a state of flux, as refinements are made by our design and development staff. You’re getting a look behind the curtain at game design in progress, so enjoy, and feel free to send your comments to dndinsider@wizards.com.

    June 28th, Thursday Night, Wizards Conference Room (Wayne Manor).
    Campaign Arc: Castle Smoulderthorn
    DM: Dave Noonan
    Players: Bruce Cordell (yours truly), Richard Baker, Logan Bonner, and Toby Latin

    Before we begin play, another player is giving Rich grief about one of Rich’s character’s abilities that grants the rest of us a blanket +2 to saves; it just ain’t sexy. Rich says something like, “I don’t know, I doubt I’ll use it that much, but who knows, maybe everyone in the party will get entangled.”

    Sure enough, not 10 minutes later this fire-crazed flame priest has entangled half the party with fire snakes! Rich throws up his +2 to saves and, voila, at least two of us get free immediately. I guess that power isn’t so corner case after all.

    In my case, I’ve thrown together a “psion.” It’s because prior to the shift to the new playtest rules, I was playing a psion elan named Infandous. You wonder, why the scare quotes? Well, just between you and me, updated-Infandous-the-psion is actually a wizard with the serial numbers filed off.

    Anyhow, I missed the last few sessions, so I’m slightly confused when the session begins—apparently the group is still breathing hard from their last session, not even rested or healed, when we hear a shuffle of footsteps from behind a set of double doors. The doors aren’t completely closed, so I “mentally” whip them open from across the room.

    Coming down the hallway is a troop of azer, some sort of burning serpent, and the flame priest I mentioned earlier. And it was a fight! And . . . we won. Without really breaking a sweat, either, truth be told.

    Emboldened, we advanced down that hallway now littered with azer remains and ash, took a right, and pretty quickly found a dusty lintel inscribed with the words: Tomb of the Black Host.

    “Sounds like someplace loot is stored,” said Infandous, eager to expand his repertoire of cool equipment. A little more discussion, and we pushed on the door. It opened . . .

    And Dave spent nearly 10 minutes constructing (using Dungeon Tiles!) an ominous, crypt-lined ruin complete with three golden sarcophagi that emanated magic. Dave did a good job laying out the floor plan of the room. Such a good job that we lingered in the door looking into the shadow-lined mausoleum for a minute, then, another . . . then decided as a group that, loot or no loot, perhaps it would be better to let whatever lay in the deathly quite of the tomb alone. So, we closed the door and continued down the main hallway.

    Sorry, Dave.


    On the subject of classes.
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    The Design & Development article series premiered on the D&D website back in September 2005, and has been a staple ever since. With the approach of 4th Edition, and our designers and developers focused on the new edition, this column will be the primary vehicle for 4th Edition coverage. We’ll not only give you peeks at what’s forthcoming, but also the “how” and “why.”

    Keep in mind that the game is still in a state of flux, as refinements are made by our design and development staff. You’re getting a look behind the curtain at game design in progress, so enjoy, and feel free to send your comments to dndinsider@wizards.com.

    Here’s a highly probable conversation lifted from the future, one year from today, as two players who’ve just met at a convention discuss their PC choices for their upcoming D&D game.

    “I’m playing a 3rd-level human fighter named Graelar.”

    “Cool. Is he weapon and shield or two-hander?”

    “He’s sword and board, man.”

    “Longsword?”

    “Yeah. I thought about going high Con and using a hammer, but I wanted to start with the chance to make a couple of attacks, so I’m using rain of blows as my good weapon attack, and I went with high Wis so that I can switch to the better oppy powers later.”

    “My elf fighter uses a spear. I like the speed and the option to go past AC. But you’ve got the fighter covered. I’ll play a halfling rogue.”

    The names and destinations of the powers mentioned above might have changed by the time the game is in your hands. What won’t change is that fighters care about which weapons they use much more than other characters. Other character classes have specific weapons and weapon types that they tend to rely on while still maintaining access to a larger chunk of the weapon chart. The fighter is the only current 4th Edition class with capabilities that depend on the weapon they have chosen to train the most with. Even at 1st level, a fighter who uses an axe has a different power selection than a fighter who relies on a flail or a rapier or a pick. In the long run, fighters can diversify and master powers related to a few different weapons, but most will opt to focus on the weapon that suits their personal style, helps their interactions with the rest of the PCs in the group, and carries all the magical oomph they’ve managed to acquire.

    Many fighters will opt for swords. Swords have the most flexible assortment of powers. In a fighter’s hands, the longsword is the queen of the battlefield and the greatsword is the queen’s executioner. But each of the other significant melee weapons offers the fighter unique advantages and opportunities. For the first time, you’ll be able to say “I’m an axe fighter” or “I’m a flail fighter” and that will mean something cool.


    Race
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    The Design & Development article series premiered on the D&D website back in September 2005, and has been a staple ever since. With the approach of 4th Edition, and our designers and developers focused on the new edition, this column will be the primary vehicle for 4th Edition coverage. We’ll not only give you peeks at what’s forthcoming, but also the “how” and “why.”

    Keep in mind that the game is still in a state of flux, as refinements are made by our design and development staff. You’re getting a look behind the curtain at game design in progress, so enjoy, and feel free to send your comments to dndinsider@wizards.com.

    Set the wayback machine to May of 2004!

    Even at that point, we knew 4th Edition was coming, though official work on it wouldn’t start for another year. At the time, the design team used to meet regularly in what we jokingly called the “Design Cabal.” And one day, in May ’04, we started kicking around the question of how many slices of pie a D&D character should consist of, and how big each piece should be.

    In 3rd Edition, class and magic items were two big pieces of the PC pie. Race was important at 1st level, but by the time you hit 20th, there was rarely much to distinguish a dwarf fighter from a half-orc fighter. The difference between a +2 here and a +2 over there was drowned out by the huge bonuses from magic items and character level—it didn’t matter any more.

    We wanted race to matter all the way up through a character’s career. We wanted there to be some difference between two characters of different races, all other things being equal. We had tried out mechanics like the racial paragons in Unearthed Arcana and the racial substitution levels in the Races of . . . series of books, and we liked the results.

    In May of 2004, we started kicking around ideas like “the 20-level race.” In a 20-level race, at each level you gained, you’d get not only new class features, but also new racial qualities. Your race might predetermine which ability scores you increased at some levels, so a dwarf’s Constitution would always have an edge over characters of other races. It would grant you new special abilities as you advanced in level, always appropriate to your level, of course.

    One key advantage we saw to this system was that it made it much easier to find room for new races without resorting to the kludgy and awkward mechanic of level adjustments. If we spread the tasty magical abilities of drow out through their levels, they could start at 1st level on a par with other character races. Races like the githyanki already anticipated some of that idea by granting new spell-like abilities at higher levels.

    Well, over the next few years, things changed, as things are wont to do. We blew the game out to thirty levels, but put your most significant racial choices in the first ten. Above that, other choices started to crowd out room for special abilities coming from your race.

    In the final version of 4th Edition, most of your racial traits come into play right out of the gate at 1st level—dwarven resilience, elven evasion, a half-elf’s inspiring presence, and so on. As you go up levels, you can take racial feats to make those abilities even more exciting and gain new capabilities tied to your race. You can also take race-specific powers built into your class, which accomplish a lot of what racial substitution levels used to do: a dwarf fighter with the friend of earth power can do something that other 10th-level fighters just can’t do.

    The rules have changed a lot since that first idea of the 20-level race, but they still serve the same purpose: to make sure that your race stays not just relevant but actually important all the way up through thirty levels of adventure.


    More on the way for those who can't get in yet.
    Thanks for the information. Sounds gash so far, but at least the Fighter survived.
    Last edited by Matthew; 2007-08-16 at 06:15 PM.
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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x...%204e%20https/

    Album should be public now, sorry bout that.

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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    Dragon Mag #360 Preview:

    Welcome to the future home of Dragon Magazine! We can’t wait until October to show you issue #360, but here’s a little taste of what you can look forward to:


    Dungeons & Dragons 360
    By Andy Collins, Rob Heinsoo, and James Wyatt

    For thirty-three years, the D&D game has led the fantasy hobby gaming scene, and 4th Edition is taking the game in places its creators never dreamed. The 4th Edition lead design team speaks up in this article, sharing their sources of inspiration from editions past, as they look forward to the future.


    The Ecology of the Death Knight
    By Matthew Sernett

    These foul undead have haunted many a campaign. Now learn their dark origin, and the source of their fell power.


    Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Graz’zt
    By James Jacobs
    The Dark Prince revealed! Explore the dark secrets of the demon prince of seduction.


    Plus Dragons of Eberron coverage, weekly Design & Development updates, and more!
    No mention of OotS....
    Last edited by Porthos; 2007-08-16 at 06:16 PM.
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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichneumon View Post
    please tell me, I can't open it.
    Let's just say that it opens up with Bad Seventies Music, with a 1e ADnD game going on in the background....
    Vote, vote, vote, vote for the best of The Order of the Stick strips by voting in....
    The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    So Fighters will now Fight ToB-style, with the styles wrapped into the weapons, and Races will be a much more limiting and determining factor. Well, goodbye to unique characters......Walking of the trodden path will incur much more splinters in your soles now.
    Apart from me not quite seeing where ToB-Mechanics "simplify" or "streamline" the system.....
    Also, thanks to Wayril for the nice Avatar!

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    From the Race article:

    In the final version of 4th Edition, most of your racial traits come into play right out of the gate at 1st level—dwarven resilience, elven evasion, a half-elf’s inspiring presence, and so on.
    For some reason, that really stands out to me!
    Vote, vote, vote, vote for the best of The Order of the Stick strips by voting in....
    The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
    Voting is now underway for strips #671-#680
    __________________________

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    The 20th level races thing sounded interesting to me; it's something I'd considered before. I wonder how they'll work it.
    Thanks to Veera for the avatar.

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    They're going ToB on the fighters, good. I'm looking forward to see what they do with the poor poor little monks. What I'd like to see is fighters being a more specialized/tactical fighting class and barbarians being a good simple class that'd be good to hand to a newbie.

    Now let's see if they give full casting the good hard nerfing it needs.

    What I'll do personally is check out the char-op boards a week after release. If there's 100 cheese builds I won't buy 4e, if there isn't too much broken stuff that the char-op regulars can find I'll buy the works. With the resources that Hasbro has at its disposal and the existance of a wonderful pool of resources for beta testing (the Char-Op board regulars) if 4e comes out anywhere near as unbalanced as a lot of recent supplements (Complete Champion) etc. I'm not going to bother. But with the information they've posted, so far so good.
    Last edited by Bosh; 2007-08-16 at 06:25 PM.

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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    In the final version of 4th Edition, most of your racial traits come into play right out of the gate at 1st level—dwarven resilience, elven evasion, a half-elf’s inspiring presence, and so on.
    And it also makes your race-choice half a class choice or even more and could potentially undo one of 3rd Editions greatest advantages. Besides, "Inspiring Presence"? If I wanted even more hard-wired Team-Factor, Ißd buy the Hungarian FPS of the same name......
    Also, thanks to Wayril for the nice Avatar!

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    Somehow I am not that positive about having 30 levels...

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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    they seem to have worked it all out already, yet the release is so far away. lets hope all that time will be spend testing, to make sure there is balance like we never have seen before.
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    I'm getting a vibe that the Art seems better. It's a bit more towards 'realism'. Am I mistaken?
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    Well, we know that dwarves, elves and half-elves are sticking around. That leaves half-orcs and gnomes as candidates for the chopping block.

    Fair well, my gnomie homies...

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    Just from what little info we were given about 4e, I'm already seriously intrigued by it. Time will tell though.

  22. - Top - End - #532
    Penguin in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellah View Post
    Well, we know that dwarves, elves and half-elves are sticking around. That leaves half-orcs and gnomes as candidates for the chopping block.

    Fair well, my gnomie homies...
    I'm for cutting half-orcs. They didn't have 'em as a PC race in 2nd Ed. and they shouldn't have 'em now. Also, I'm all in favor of giving gnomes back their +2 to Int and -2 to Wis.
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  23. - Top - End - #533
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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    I'm getting a vibe that the Art seems better. It's a bit more towards 'realism'. Am I mistaken?
    You're not. It looks like they're paying actual money for it.

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    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    Huzzah! Let's hope that such promise is fulfilled.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  25. - Top - End - #535
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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    Yeah, the art we're seeing doesn't look any more "real". The weapons and armour that the dwarf seems to be using dont seem at all practical. It's a lot more like the art of WoW, which is disappointing. Everybody knows that armour with square edges doesn't work!
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  26. - Top - End - #536
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    it seems like there going in a kind of TOB direction with fighters but they don't look like they will have maneuvers in the same way as TOB, its more like for a fighter every weapon will have bonus abilities they can use so choosing what weapon you play with will be a big deal.

    i like the idea that spears somehow ignore AC and it also looks like you need prerequisite stats for either A) certain weapons or B) certain Powers related to Weapons.

    i definitely like the idea of a 20-level race system but the end of the article seems to talk like they scrapped that idea for a different system that gives you powers at level 1 and feeds you more abilities through additional feats and something similar to racial substitution levels in all core classes. which is also alright except it might mean they went back to Level adjustments which would be a pity, because i know too many new players who ruin their PC by taking a +5LA and only 1 level of a actual class.

  27. - Top - End - #537
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    MindFlayer

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    Default What we can gather about 4th edition...

    After seeing the video and reading some stuff, we can tell this much.

    • Weapon choices are much more important.
    • Classes go up to 30.
    • Races give added benefits depending on level.
    • There will be online tools (for a fee), but they will not be required.
    • Simpler rules (easier grapple rules, hopefully).


    EDIT: I am going to try and upload the trailer, for those who have not seen it.
    Last edited by Thrivol; 2007-08-16 at 06:59 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #538
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    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4th edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jewish_Joke View Post
    Yeah, the art we're seeing doesn't look any more "real". The weapons and armour that the dwarf seems to be using dont seem at all practical. It's a lot more like the art of WoW, which is disappointing. Everybody knows that armour with square edges doesn't work!
    I meant less cartoony, not more practical!
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  29. - Top - End - #539
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    Default Re: What we can gather about 4th edition...

    Could you please give us a link to that video? I was going to read the other thread but it grew to a zillion posts in the past half-hour so I'd prefer a summary if somebody has one. Sorry if this sounds lazy

  30. - Top - End - #540
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: What we can gather about 4th edition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Could you please give us a link to that video? I was going to read the other thread but it grew to a zillion posts in the past half-hour so I'd prefer a summary if somebody has one. Sorry if this sounds lazy
    I don't have a link to it sorry. It doesn't show much, however, besides a small glimpse at the online tools.

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