Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Vancouver <-> Dublin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Revised Cleric (WIP)

    Currently undergoing rewrites, please ignore!

    Spoiler: Rationale
    Show
    A quick and simple (?) 3.5 cleric revamp, inspired by Lemmy's cleric. Note that this also replaces druids (simply clerics of a nature deity with the Druid feat). The goal is to provide domains that truly reflect a particular aspect of the universe - whether by duplicating an entire school of magic or through class features.

    Probably way too strong - I could remove the automatic spells known, but allow them to switch their spells known as a Spirit Shaman. I just like the idea of praying for help and getting the precise effect you need when you need it (within your deity's portfolio at least), rather than having limited prayers known.

    Something to keep in mind is the "DM approval" bit. A deity of Protection isn't necessarily going to let you use time stop, and a Trickery deity may or may not feel you can use alter self. A moon god could let you use prismatic sphere, but it would be a silvery version instead of the usual colour.

    Spoiler: Druid Feat
    Show

    You worship a god of the wild, or untamed nature itself.

    Prerequisites
    Cleric level 1st, worship deity/philosophy of nature.

    Benefits
    Wisdom replaces Charisma as your relevant ability for cleric spellcasting.

    If you have the wild empathy class feature, you may use it to influence dragons, elementals, fey and magical beasts at no penalty.

    While you are the leader of a druid Circle, you gain a +1 bonus to your caster level.

    Alignment: Matching your deity.

    Hit Die: d6.

    Class Skills
    The cleric's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana, history, local, nobility and royalty, religion, the planes) (Int), Perform (oratory) (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

    Clerics add additional skills to their class skill list according to their domains (see below).

    Skill Points per Level: 4 + Int modifier

    Table: The Cleric
    Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
    1st
    +0
    +0
    +0
    +2
    Aura, Empathy, Exorcise, Domains (2)
    2nd
    +1
    +0
    +0
    +3
    3rd
    +1
    +1
    +1
    +3
    4th
    +2
    +1
    +1
    +4
    5th
    +2
    +1
    +1
    +4
    Domains (3)
    6th
    +3
    +2
    +2
    +5
    7th
    +3
    +2
    +2
    +5
    8th
    +4
    +2
    +2
    +6
    9th
    +4
    +3
    +3
    +6
    10th
    +5
    +3
    +3
    +7
    Domains (4)
    11th
    +5
    +3
    +3
    +7
    12th
    +6/+1
    +4
    +4
    +8
    13th
    +6/+1
    +4
    +4
    +8
    14th
    +7/+2
    +4
    +4
    +9
    15th
    +7/+2
    +5
    +5
    +9
    Domains (5)
    16th
    +8/+3
    +5
    +5
    +10
    17th
    +8/+3
    +5
    +5
    +10
    18th
    +9/+4
    +6
    +6
    +11
    19th
    +9/+4
    +6
    +6
    +11
    20th
    +10/+5
    +6
    +6
    +12
    Domains (6)

    Weapon and Armour Proficiencies
    A cleric is proficient with all simple weapons and with light armour. A cleric is not proficient with shields.

    Aura (Su)
    A cleric has an aura (see detect evil) corresponding to his alignment.

    Empathy (Su)
    As wild empathy, save that you may use this ability to influence the attitude of any creature that has an alignment no more than one step removed from your own on either axis.

    Exorcise (Su)
    As turn undead, save that it functions against elementals, fey, outsiders, undead, and any creature with the chaotic, evil, extraplanar, good, incorporeal, or lawful subtypes.

    Spellcasting (Ex)
    As a sorcerer of equal level (with Charisma as the relevant spellcasting ability). The base cleric spell list is greatly reduced (see below), but clerics automatically know all spells on the cleric list and all spells from their domains.

    Spoiler: Cleric Spell List
    Show
    0th-cure minor wounds, detect magic, disrupt undead^, guidance, purify food and drink, read magic, resistance, virtue

    1st-detect poison, detect undead^, hide from undead^, magic weapon, protection from spirits^, shield of faith

    2nd-aid, augury, command undead^, delay poison, enthrall, lesser restoration, remove paralysis, resist energy, see invisibility

    3rd-bestow curse, create food and water, dispel magic, glyph of warding, halt undead^, magic vestment, prayer, remove blindness/deafness, remove curse, remove disease, speak with dead

    4th-dimensional anchor, dismissal, divination, greater magic weapon, imbue with spell ability, lesser planar ally, restoration

    5th-atonement, break enchantment, commune, disrupting weapon^, lesser planar binding, mark of justice, plane shift, raise dead, scrying, spell resistance, true seeing

    6th-antilife shell^, banishment, forbiddance, geas/quest, greater dispel magic, greater glyph of warding, planar ally, planar binding, undeath to death^

    7th-control undead^, minor miracle, plane shift, repulsion*^, vision

    8th-antimagic field, dimensional lock, discern location, greater planar ally, greater planar binding

    9th-gate (planar travel only), miracle

    *functions against any alignment opposed to your own on either axis. If you are true neutral, it functions against creatures of any extreme alignment (e.g. lawful good, chaotic evil, etc.)

    ^functions only against any creature that you could Exorcise.

    Domains (Ex): Each of a deity's domains is associated with particular skills, as shown below. These skills are always considered class skills for a cleric and they may use them untrained. A cleric gains access to the associated skills of all of their deity's domains at first level, and also gains 4 bonus skill points per class level (with quadruple points at first level) to spend on these domain skills.

    Each alignment domain is associated with particular skills. These skills are always considered class skills for you, you may use them untrained, and you gain a bonus on them equal to one-half your cleric level (if you gain this bonus from multiple domains, the effects stack).

    Domain Skill
    Alignment (Any)* Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes)
    Chaos Bluff, Gather Information
    Evil Bluff, Intimidate
    Good Diplomacy, Heal
    Lawful Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Sense Motive
    Elemental (Any)* Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (the planes), Survival
    Air Balance, Jump, Tumble
    Earth Climb, Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (geography)
    Fire Balance, Climb, Tumble
    Water Escape Artist, Knowledge (geography), Swim
    Magic (Any)* Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
    Cosmic Concentration, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (the planes)
    Knowledge Appraise, Decipher Script, Knowledge (all skills), Speak Language
    Manipulation (Any)* Bluff, Diplomacy, Speak Language
    Charm Gather Information, Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Perform (all skills)
    Trickery Disguise, Forgery, Hide, Move Silently
    Nature (Any)* Knowledge (nature), Survival
    Animal Handle Animal, Ride
    Plant Concentration, Use Rope
    Spirit (Any)* Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes)
    Death Concentration, Intimidate
    Life Heal, Knowledge (nature), Survival
    Valour (Any) Climb, Jump, Swim
    Protection Knowledge (architecture and engineering), Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot
    War Intimidate, Knowledge (history), Perform (oratory), Ride

    At first level a cleric gains access to the granted powers of all of their deity's domains, including the skills

    At first level a cleric gains access to two of the domains of the deity/philosophy they worship (and must select any alignment domains first). Each domain grants a cleric special powers, including additional spells known. A cleric gains another of their deity's domains at 5th level and every five levels thereafter.
    Spoiler: Note on domain themes and rewriting deities
    Show


    Spoiler: Domain Themes
    Show
    Domain Skill
    Alignment (Any)* Aligned spells, conjuration, abjuration
    Chaos Chaos, confusion, luck
    Evil Evil, fear, harmful necromancy
    Good Good, heroism
    Lawful Law, commands
    Elemental (Any)* Elemental spells, conjuration, evocation
    Air Air, electricity, sonic, weather
    Earth Earth, resilience
    Fire Fire
    Water Water, mists
    Magic (Any)* Magic
    Cosmic Conjuration (teleportation), time magic (haste, time stop), reality magic (extradimensional spaces, wish)
    Knowledge Divination, runes (symbol spells)
    Manipulation (Any)* Mind-affecting
    Charm Charm, dominate, suggestion, communication
    Trickery Fear, suggestion, illusion, confusion, deception
    Nature (Any)* Druid magic
    Animal Animals
    Plant Plants
    Spirit (Any)* Negative/Positive Planes
    Death Death, darkness, fear, undead, harmful necromancy
    Life Life, light (sun/moon, etc... not enough Core spells for a seperate Sun domain), heroism, conjuration (healing)
    Valour (Any) Combat, Tactics
    Protection Abjuration (on friendly creatures), walls, communities, security (arcane lock, explosive runes)
    War Melee, combat spells (on self), battlefield control
    XXX


    Deities under this system should be streamlined to have 6 domains each (usually 2 alignment domains plus 4 others). A nature deity might be true neutral with Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, and Water.

    If this is too restrictive or causes too much overlap between deities, the # of domains per deity and the levels at which a cleric gains them could be adjusted up/down. Ultimately a cleric should gain all of their deity's domains though, by feats if necessary.

    Each domain is associated with particular skills (as shown below). These skills are always considered class skills for
    These domain spell lists are by no means exhaustive. A domain may grant a cleric any appropriate spells, even non-cleric spells, subject to DM approval. For example, the Air domain might grant a cleric all spells with the [Air], [Electricity], [Sonic] descriptors, all spells manipulating sound or the weather, and even polymorph any object (provided it is used to transform creatures into air elementals or somesuch). Conversely, a DM may remove spells already on these lists (e.g. a deity with the Charm domain might not allow insanity spells, a deity of Knowledge might find prying eyes too bizarre, etc.).

    All domain spells are presumed to be at the level of the cleric versions. If the spell in question is not a cleric spell, then default to sorcerer/wizard, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order.

    Spoiler: Alignment Domains (Chaos, Evil, Good, Law)
    Show
    All summon monster and summon nature's ally spells are considered spells known for you and you may use gate to call creatures, but you may only conjure creatures of the domain's alignment with those spells (you may conjure creatures of other alignments via planar binding spells as normal). Whenever you use a planar ally or gate spell, the payment required by summoned creatures is reduced by 5% per cleric level.

    You cast spells with your domain's alignment descriptor at caster level +1, and Exorcise creatures of the opposed alignment as a cleric one level higher. Whenever you would Exorcise a creature of the domain's alignment, you may rebuke it instead.

    Each domain provides additional spells known, as given below.

    Spell Level Chaos Evil Good Law
    1st detect law, divine favour, entropic shield, lesser confusion, protection from law, true strike
    bane, cause fear, curse water, detect good, doom, protection from good
    bless, bless water, detect evil, protection from evil, remove fear, sanctuary
    alarm, command, detect chaos, hold portal, protection from chaos, unseen servant
    2nd align weapon (chaos only), blur, hideous laughter, touch of madness align weapon (evil only), death knell, desecrate*, scare aid, align weapon (good only), consecrate*, shield other align weapon (law only), calm emotions, detect thoughts, hold person
    3rd magic circle against law, rage contagion, diminish plants (stunt growth only), magic circle against good, bless weapon, magic circle against evil, plant growth (enrichment only) magic circle against chaos
    4th chaos hammer, confusion, freedom of movement armour of darkness, crushing despair, fear, unholy blight good hope, heroism, holy smite order's wrath, tongues, zone of truth
    5th awaken (any creature), bolts of bedevilment, dispel law, reincarnate blight, dispel good, unhallow, nightmare, symbol of pain dispel evil, dream, hallow, holy sword dispel chaos, dominate person, greater command, hold monster
    6th antilife shell (nonchaotic only), song of discord antilife shell (nonevil only), create undead, eyebite antilife shell (nongood only), bolt of glory, greater heroism antilife shell (nonlawful only),
    7th insanity, word of chaos
    blasphemy holy word dictum, forcecage, mass hold person
    8th cloak of chaos, irresistible dance, maddening scream, moment of prescience, symbol of insanity create greater undead, unholy aura crown of glory, holy aura demand, maze, shield of law, temporal stasis
    9th freedom, gate, weird gate, soul bind gate, true atonement
    dominate monster, gate, mass hold monster
    *the bonus/penalty on turning checks against all creatures that can be Exorcised (not just undead).
    ^As holy sword, but for the appropriate alignment.

    Spoiler: Elemental Domains (Air, Earth, Fire, Water)
    Show

    You may Exorcise creatures with that domain's subtype, and whenever you would Exorcise such a creature you may rebuke it instead.

    All summon monster, summon nature's ally, and elemental swarm spells are added to your spells known and you may use gate to call creatures, but you may only conjure creatures of the domain's element with those spells (you may conjure creatures of other elements via planar binding spells as normal).

    Endure elements, commune with nature, polymorph, and shapechange are added to your spells known (you may only use the polymorph effects to change into creatures related to your element) . Each domain provides additional spells known, as given below:

    Spell Level Air Earth Fire Water
    0th message
    know direction flare acid splash, create water, ray of frost
    1st feather fall, obscuring mist, shocking grasp,
    detect snares and pits, longstrider, magic stone, burning hands, faerie fire, produce flame grease, obscuring mist
    2nd fog cloud, gust of wind, shatter, silence, sound burst, whispering wind glitterdust, protection from arrows, soften earth and stone, spiderclimb
    flame blade, flaming sphere, heat metal, pyrotechnics, scorching ray
    acid arrow, chill metal, fog cloud
    3rd call lightning, fly, gaseous form, lightning bolt, protection from energy (electricity or sonic only), sleet storm, stinking cloud, wind wall
    meld into stone, protection from energy, spike growth, stone shape
    flame blade, flaming sphere, heat metal, protection from energy (cold or fire only), pyrotechnics, scorching ray
    protection from energy (acid, cold, or fire only), quench, sleet storm, stinking cloud, water breathing, water walk
    4th air walk, freedom of movement, sculpt sound, shout, solid fog rusting grasp, secure shelter, spike stones, stoneskin fire shield (warm flames only), fire trap, freedom of movement, wall of fire control water, fire shield (chill flames only), freedom of movement, ice storm, solid fog, wall of ice
    5th call lightning storm, cloudkill, control winds, mind fog, overland flight, zone of silence major creation (mineral only), passwall, transmute mud to rock, wall of stone flame strike cloudkill, cone of cold, mind fog, transmute rock to mud
    6th acid fog, chain lightning, wind walk flesh to stone, move earth, stone tell, wall of iron fire seeds control water, freezing sphere
    7th control weather, reverse gravity phase door, reverse gravity, statue, transmute wood to metal (only to counter transmute metal to wood) delayed blast fireball simulacrum
    8th binding (metamorphosis only), greater shout, horrid wilting, sympathetic vibration, whirlwind binding (hedged only), earthquake, iron body, repel metal or stone, sympathetic vibration, trap the soul fire storm, incendiary cloud horrid wilting, polar ray
    9th storm of vengeance freedom (counter petrification or imprisonment only), imprisonment meteor swarm
    storm of vengeance

    Spoiler: Magic Domains (Cosmic, Knowledge)
    Show
    The following spells are added to your spells known:

    Spell Level Cosmic Knowledge
    0th mage hand, prestidigitation, open/close
    arcane mark, know direction, message,
    1st enlarge person, expeditious retreat, floating disc, jump, longstrider, magic missile, reduce person, unseen servant comprehend languages, deathwatch, detect animals or plants, detect secret doors, detect snares and pits, erase, identify, magic aura, speak with animals, true strike,
    2nd alter self, levitate, reduce animal, rope trick, animal messenger, arcane lock, darkvision, detect thoughts, find traps, fox's cunning, knock, locate object, magic mouth, status, owl's wisdom, whispering wind, zone of truth
    3rd blink, haste, shrink item, slow, tiny hut, arcane sight, clairaudience/clairvoyance, explosive runes, illusory script, invisibility purge, locate object, secret page, sepia snake sigil, speak with plants, tongues
    4th dimension door, mass enlarge person, mass reduce person, minor creation, polymorph, resilient sphere, shadow conjuration, arcane eye, detect scrying, discern lies, lesser globe of invulnerability, locate creature, mnemonic enhancer, sending, scrying, spell immunity
    5th fabricate, mage's private sanctum, major creation, secret chest, shadow evocation, telekinesis, teleport, tree stride, wall of force
    commune with nature, contact other plane, dream, permanency, prying eyes, spell resistance, symbol of pain, symbol of sleep, telepathic bond,
    6th animate objects, disintegrate, shadow walk, transport via plants, word of recall analyse dweomer, contingency, find the path, globe of invulnerability, legend lore, mage's lucubration, spellstaff, symbol of fear, symbol of persuasion,
    7th ethereal jaunt, forcecage, greater shadow conjuration, greater teleport, instant summons, limited wish, mage's magnificent mansion, mage's sword, refuge, reverse gravity, teleport object, greater arcane sight, greater scrying, spell turning, symbol of stunning, symbol of weakness,
    8th binding, greater shadow evocation, maze, polymorph any object, telekinetic sphere, temporal stasis, trap the soul, true creation, greater prying eyes, greater spell immunity, moment of prescience, protection from spells, mind blank, symbol of death, symbol of insanity,
    9th astral projection, etherealness, genesis, shades, teleportation circle, time stop, wish foresight, mage's disjunction,

    Spoiler: Mind Domains (Charm, Trickery)
    Show


    tongues, symbol of sleep, hypntism, sleep, hypnotic pattern, deep slumber, suggestion, glitterdust, rainbow pattern, shadow spells/shades, mind fog, dream, nightmare, mass suggestion, antipathy, sympathy, scintillating pattern,

    The following spells are added to your spells known:

    Spell Level Charm Trickery
    0th daze, lullaby
    dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation, mage hand, message
    1st calm animals, charm animal, charm person, command, comprehend languages, hypnotism, remove fear, sanctuary, sleep, speak with animals
    animate rope, cause fear, colour spray, disguise self, enlarge person, entangle, entropic shield, grease, hide from animals, hypnotism, lesser confusion, magic aura, obscuring mist, pass without trace, reduce person, silent image, sleep, unseen servant, ventriloquism
    2nd aid, animal messenger, animal trance, calm emotions, daze monster, eagle's splendour, glitterdust, hideous laughter, hold person, hypnotic pattern,
    alter self, blur, darkness, false life, find traps, glitterdust, hypnotic pattern, invisibility, knock, magic mouth, minor image, mirror image, misdirection, phantom trap, pyrotechnics, rope trick, scare, silence, soften earth and stone, touch of idiocy, touch of madness, tree shape, undetectable alignment, web, whispering wind,
    3rd deep slumber, dominate animal, haste, slow, heroism, hold person, rage, speak with plants, suggestion
    blindness/deafness, blink, deep slumber, deeper darkness, displacement, explosive runes, gaseous form, illusory script, invisibilty sphere, major image, meld into stone, nondetection, obscure object, secret page, sepia snake sigil, shrink item, sleet storm, snare, spike growth, suggestion, wind wall
    4th charm monster, command plants, confusion, crushing despair, good hope, mnemonic enhancer, rainbow pattern, tongues
    confusion, dimension door, detect scrying, fear, fire trap, freedom of movement, glibness, greater invisibility, hallucinatory terrain, illusory wall, imbue with spell ability, mass enlarge person, mass reduce person, phantasmal killer, poison, polymorph, rainbow pattern, spike stones, tongues
    5th awaken (any creature), break enchantment, commune with nature, dominate person, dream, greater command, hold monster, magic jar, mind fog, nightmare, sending, symbol of sleep, telepathic bond,
    balreful polymorph, bolts of bedevilment, dream, false vision, feeblemind, mage's private sanctum, magic jar, mind fog, mirage arcana, nightmare, passwall, persistent image, prying eyes, secret chest, seeming, symbol of sleep, teleport, tree stride, zone of silence
    6th animate objects, antilife shell, greater heroism, heroes' feast, mage's lucubration, mass eagle's splendour, mass suggestion, stone tell, symbol of persuasion, transformation
    contingency, eyebite, mass suggestion, mislead, permanent image, programmed image, shadow walk, song of discord, symbol of fear, transport via plants, veil, word of recall
    7th animate plants, mass hold person, repulsion, symbol of stunning
    changestaff, ethereal jaunt, greater teleport, insanity, mage's magnificent mansion, mass invisibility, phase door, project image, power word: blind, refuge, reverse gravity, sequester, simulacrum, statue, teleport object
    8th antipathy, binding, control plants, crown of glory, demand, irresistible dance, mass charm monster, mind blank, power word:stun, scintillating pattern, symbol of insanity, sympathy
    animal shapes, antipathy, maddening scream, mind blank, maze, polymorph any object, scintillating pattern, screen, sympathy, trap the soul
    9th dominate monster, mass hold monster, power word: kill
    etherealness, imprisonment, shapechange, weird

    Spoiler: Nature Domains (Animal, Plant)
    Show
    n.b. The Animal domain's creature types are animals and vermin (for the purposes of summon nature's ally, polymorph effects, etc.).

    All summon nature's ally spells are considered spells known for you, but you may only summon creatures of the domain's creature type.

    You may Exorcise creatures of the domain's type, and whenever you would Exorcise such a creature you may rebuke it instead. Commanded animals and vermin do not count towards the Hit Dice limit of creatures you may command.

    You gain the wild empathy class feature. If you have Animal domain you may use wild empathy to influence animals and vermin at no penalty. If you have the Plant domain, you may only use it to influence plants at no penalty.

    Awaken (animals, plants, or vermin), commune with nature, pass without trace, polymorph, polymorph any object, reincarnate, regenerate, and shapechange are added to your spells known, but you may only use the polymorph effect spells in a way related to the domain's creature type. Whenever you willingly use a polymorph effect to assume your domain's creature type, time spent in that form does not count towards the duration of the effect.

    Each domain provides additional spells known, as given below:

    Spell Level Animal Plant
    1st calm animals, charm animals, detect animals or plants (animals only), hide from animals, jump, magic fang, mount, speak with animals
    animate rope, detect animals or plants (plants only), entangle, goodberry, shillelagh
    2nd animal messenger, animal trance, bear's endurance, bull's strength, cat's grace, eagle's splendour, fox's cunning, hold animal, owl's wisdom, reduce animal, summon swarm, spider climb, web
    barkskin, tree shape, warp wood, wood shape
    3rd dominate animal, greater magic fang, phantom steed, sepia snake sigil
    diminish plants, plant growth, snare, speak with plants
    4th giant vermin, neutralise poison, poison, repel vermin antiplant shell, black tentacles, command plants, minor creation
    5th animal growth, baleful polymorph, feeblemind, insect plague, mage's faithful hound blight, major creation (vegetable matter only), tree stride, wall of thorns
    6th antilife shell (nonanimals only), mass bear's endurance, mass bull's strength, mass cat's grace, mass eagle's splendour, mass fox's cunning, mass owl's wisdom, transformation antilife shell (nonevil only), fire seeds, ironwood, liveoak, repel wood, spellstaff, transport via plants
    7th creeping doom
    animate plants, changestaff, transmute metal to wood
    8th animal shapes control plants
    9th ursa major (as shambler, but dire bears) shambler


    Spoiler: Spirit (Death, Life)
    Show
    Your Fortitude save from your cleric levels increases to the Good progression.

    The following spells are added to your spells known:

    Spell Level Death Life
    0th touch of fatigue
    dancing lights, detect poison, flare, light, mending, virtue
    1st cause fear, chill touch, deathwatch, doom, inflict light wounds, ray of enfeeblement colour spray, cure light wounds, deathwatch, faerie fire, goodberry, remove fear
    2nd darkness, darkvision, death knell, desecrate, false life, gentle repose, ghoul touch, inflict moderate wounds, scare, spectral hand aid, calm emotions, consecrate, cure moderate wounds, false life, gentle repose, glitterdust, hypnotic pattern, make whole, shield other, status
    3rd animate dead, blacklight, blindness/deafness, contagion, deeper darkness, diminish plants, gaseous form, inflict serious wounds, phantom steed, ray of exhaustion, vampiric touch continual flame, cure serious wounds, daylight, haste, heroism, make whole, plant growth, searing light
    4th armour of darkness, black tentacles, crushing despair, enervation, fear, inflict critical wounds, phantasmal killer, poison cure critical wounds, death ward, good hope, greater status, neutralise poison, rainbow pattern, reincarnate
    5th blight, cloudkill, contact other plane, magic jar, mass inflict light wounds, nightmare, slay living, symbol of pain, waves of fatigue awaken (any creature), commune with nature, contact other plane, magic jar, mass cure light wounds
    6th antilife shell, circle of death, eyebite, create undead, harm, mass inflict moderate wounds, shadow walk, stone to flesh, symbol of fear animate objects, bolt of glory, disintegrate, greater heroism, heal, heroes' feast, mass cure moderate wounds, stone to flesh,
    7th destruction, ethereal jaunt, finger of death, mass inflict moderate wounds, symbol of weakness, transformation, waves of exhaustion greater restoration, mass cure serious wounds, prismatic spray, regenerate, resurrection, simulacrum, sunbeam
    8th clone, create greater undead, horrid wilting, mass inflict critical wounds, symbol of death, clone, mass cure critical wounds, mind blank, polymorph any object, prismatic wall, scintillating pattern, sunburst, surelife, temporal stasis
    9th astral projection, energy drain, etherealness, implosion, mass harm, shapechange (undead only), soul bind, wail of the banshee astral projection, freedom, mass heal, prismatic sphere, shapechange (living only), true resurrection


    Spoiler: Valour Domains (Protection, War)
    Show
    The following spells are added to your spells known:

    barkskin, mage armour, shield

    Spell Level Protection War
    0th arcane mark, virtue virtue
    1st alarm, barksin, bless, endure elements, entropic shield, hold portal, mage armour, sanctuary, shield bane, barkskin, bless, command, divine favour, expeditious retreat, jump, mage armour, magic stone, mount, shield, shillelagh, true strike
    2nd aid, arcane lock, invisibility, phantom trap, shield other, status acid arrow, chill metal, flame blade, flaming sphere, heat metal, hold animal, protection from arrows, shatter, spiritual weapon, warp wood
    3rd explosive runes, protection from energy, sepia snake sigil, snare, spike growth, tiny hut, wind wall bear's endurance, blur, bull's strength, call lightning, cat's grace, flame arrow, haste, heroism, keen edge, mirror image, phantom steed, rage, slow, spike growth
    4th death ward, detect scrying, fire trap, freedom of movement, greater status, lesser globe of invulnerability, secure shelter, spell immunity, spike stones, stoneskin, wall of fire, wall of ice black tentacles, confusion, crushing despair, divine power, fear, good hope, ice storm, mass enlarge person, mass reduce person, rusting grasp, shout, spike stones
    5th mage's private sanctum, mage's faithful hound, secret chest, spell resistance, symbol of pain, symbol of sleep, wall of force, wall of stone flame strike, greater command, interposing hand, mind fog, righteous might, transmute rock to mud, waves of fatigue
    6th antilife shell, contingency, fire seeds, globe of invulnerability, guards and wards, hardening, symbol of fear, symbol of persuasion, wall of iron, word of recall blade barrier, circle of death, fire seeds, forceful hand, greater heroism, heroes' feast, mass bear's endurance, mass bull's strength, mass cat's grace, move earth, song of discord, transformation
    7th ethereal jaunt, forcecage, refuge, repulsion, spell turning, symbol of stunning, symbol of weakness grasping hand, mage's sword, waves of exhaustion
    8th greater spell immunity, mind blank, prismatic wall, protecton from spells, symbol of death, symbol of insanity clenched fist, greater shout, iron body
    9th etherealness, freedom, prismatic sphere crushing hand, implosion, storm of vengeance, teleportation circle

    Spoiler: War
    Show
    Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Ride, and Swim are considered class skills for you.

    You gain 4 extra skills points per cleric level (with quadruple points at first level). These points may only be spent on Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (history), Perform (oratory), Ride, and Swim.

    All spells (even non-cleric spells) that grant a morale bonus or penalty or that deal with battle (e.g. good hope, crushing despair, divine power, heroes' feast, greater heroism, transformation, blade barrier, spiritual weapon, shield, etc.) are considered spells known for you, subject to DM approval.

    Your base attack bonus from your cleric levels increases to 3/4ths, and your Fortitude save from your cleric levels increases to the Good progression. Your cleric Hit Dice increase to d8.

    You are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

    To Do
    Artifice - subsume Creation... allows conjuration (creation) effects

    Good saves from other domains - Reflex (Animal, Air, Charm, Fire, Water), Fortitude (Animal, Earth, Death, Plant, Water)...

    You gain the divine grace class feature, as a paladin.

    break up protection (good, healing, law, knowledge traps), other domains (charm + life -> good), etc.
    stacking added skills
    if fits better in different domain, remove! e.g. temporal stasis is better temporal effect than healing effect
    condense animal/plant to "Wilderness" domain? (tons of spells but most of them are animal/plant-specific)...add alter self
    magical aptitude
    space/time domain, magic domain -including telekineses
    freedom of movement-air, water, fire
    contact other plane
    animate objects-earth
    create food/heroes feast-basic? earth?
    implosion-earth (gravity)
    bard-glibness, good hope, lesser confusion, lullaby (sonic... vs tongues), sculpt sound, song of discord, summon instrument, zone of silence
    paladin-heal mount (affects any animal, special mount, animal companion, or familiar), holy sword
    additional domains list, as for bard/pal
    ranger-
    bears endurance - spells...for main list (blessings)? for various domains?
    wail of the banshee-sonic...also bard feat
    stone to flesh-healing
    slow-earth, especially if air=haste
    nightmare-evil...
    druid feat-longstrider, pass without trace
    brew new spells to fill gaps
    reinforce alignment restrictions
    chaos-luck power, madness power
    sttus, greater status, deathwatch (healing)
    delete chaos sword etc, just leave holy sword
    special both alignment at 1st? only 1 otherwise? ...automatic granted powers, spell access only later?
    4 bonus skill points, only on domain skills
    1st- endure elements, logstriderXXX, pass without traceXXX druid feat
    At 6th level, you gain protection from chaos/evil/good/law against the domain's opposed alignment as a constant supernatural ability. The improves to magic circle against chaos/evil/good/law at 12th level.
    helping hand
    Insead of sorcerer, wizard or even ur-priest spells/day (still spontaneous
    opposed caster level divination feat
    charm spells for good
    wild shape spells
    remove X and deathward to Life
    remove light to fire
    [electricity] to light? produce flame? add my light spells?
    astral conjuartion - [light] equivalents of shadow spells, but allow fort saves to "dsibelieve"
    divine power, righteous might as alignment or even base cleric spells
    glyph and greater glyph and even forbiddance as domain spells?
    eschew material components as bonus feat... or while wielding holy symbol
    Deleted Domains
    Spoiler
    Show
    These fit better as portfolio concepts rather than mechanics IMHO. Whenever a build would require one of these domains (or one of the subsumed domains e.g. Glory), use the appropriate replacement instead.

    Community - Replace with Good, Law, Protection...
    Darkness - Replace with Evil, Death...
    Destruction - Replace with Chaos, Death, Fire, War, etc...
    Glory - Replace with Charm, Good, Light...
    Healing Replace with Good or Life
    Liberation - Replace with Chaos, Trickery, etc.
    Luck - Replace with Chaos, Evil, Good, etc...
    Magic Domain - Replace with Cosmic, Knowledge, Protection, etc...
    Madness - Replace with Chaos, Charm, Evil, Trickery, etc.
    Nobility - Replace with Charm, Law...
    Repose - Replace with Death, Good...
    Rune - Replace with Knowledge...
    Scalykind - Replace with Animal, Evil, Water...
    Strength - Replace with Protection, War...
    Sun - replace with Fire, Life
    Travel - Replace with Air, Cosmic, Water....
    Weather- Replace with Air, Water..


    Animal-If you become a lycanthrope, you gain the powers of a natural lycanthrope but you retain your own alignment, do not gain any racial Hit Dice from the template, and only gain a level adjustment of +1.
    Death- If you become an undead creature, you retain your own alignment and your level adjustment from being undead (if any) is reduced by -2 (to a minimum of +0).
    -Whenever you would Exorcise an undead creature you may rebuke it instead. Commanded undead do not count towards your Hit Dice limit of commanded creatures. There is no limit on the Hit Dice of undead you can create and command through animate dead.
    Knowledge-You gain 4 extra skills points per cleric level (with quadruple points at first level). These points may only be spent on Knowledge skills.
    Mind-You may spend three turn attempts at once to Exorcise any type of creature. Whenever you would Exorcise a creature, you may rebuke it instead.
    Plant-At 20th level, you may choose to gain the plant type. Increase your base attack bonus, saves, etc. as appropriate.[/SPOILER]
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-10-18 at 05:22 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Revised Cleric

    .
    1. What about class table? Don't force people to guess what you base your Cleric off of. Saying "inspired by Lemmy's cleric" is not definitive enough.
    2. Since this is a remake, don't specify the domains that don't exist anymore (or specify them separately). A lot less "noisy" on the eyes.
    3. About the omitted domains - make sure you're not taking away character concepts/archetypes in the process.
    4. Animal domain should not grant Wild Empathy with plants (symmetry).
    5. How many domains does your Cleric get and at what levels? If it's just 2 domains at 1st level, then it seems too little to me (e.g. if I go for the Druid archetype, then at the very least, I'd want to eventually have access to Animal, Plant and the elemental domains).
    6. (nitpick) Speaking of Druid, I'd change the feat to require Animal and Plant domains, and have it grant Resist Nature's Lure (and Trackless Step, provided the druid also took Track feat)
    7. I think you should change True Atonement to be symmetrical for all alignments.

    Other than the above, great work

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Vancouver <-> Dublin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Revised Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    .
    1. What about class table? Don't force people to guess what you base your Cleric off of. Saying "inspired by Lemmy's cleric" is not definitive enough.
    2. Since this is a remake, don't specify the domains that don't exist anymore (or specify them separately). A lot less "noisy" on the eyes.
    3. About the omitted domains - make sure you're not taking away character concepts/archetypes in the process.
    4. Animal domain should not grant Wild Empathy with plants (symmetry).
    5. How many domains does your Cleric get and at what levels? If it's just 2 domains at 1st level, then it seems too little to me (e.g. if I go for the Druid archetype, then at the very least, I'd want to eventually have access to Animal, Plant and the elemental domains).
    6. (nitpick) Speaking of Druid, I'd change the feat to require Animal and Plant domains, and have it grant Resist Nature's Lure (and Trackless Step, provided the druid also took Track feat)
    7. I think you should change True Atonement to be symmetrical for all alignments.

    Other than the above, great work
    1. Awwwww maaaaaaaaaaaan... I really didn't want to have to type one up, they were just meant to get everything at 1st level. :D But now that I've done so, you've given me the idea of spacing out the domain access. :)
    2. Sage advice!
    3. Hopefully thats handled by the "deleted domains" note. Otherwise, the new domains are meant to be broader and allow more flexibility.
    4. I don't think I follow - the Animal version only grants empathy with animals/magical beasts as normal, and the Plant version only works for plants. If you have the Druid feat, you can extend either to fey/elementals.
    5. Originally was everything at once, now set at 2 at first level (doesn't really reflect a deity's full portfolio, but allows a LOT of spells known for the cleric-sorcerer nonetheless).
    6. I wanted to keep the requirements nebulous so that you could be as focused as a Water druid or somesuch, and I wanted to resist my temptation to go overboard with class features as well so no trackless step etc. Rely on pass without trace and the Good Will save instead :D
    7. Whoops, that was the intent! Missed the asterisk, thanks.

    Thanks as always for the feedback!
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-10-14 at 04:03 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    No where out there <-->

    Default Re: Revised Cleric

    Love this ('cept the removal of druid :smallpout:), and is close to what I intend on for my cleric... except I am making them get death or life as bonus domains at 1st (so they have the whole inflict or heal) and diety domains. Instead of spells they have my ritual system (it is in the works... somewhere ) and abilities depneding on what domains they have, with synergies and whatnot... Basically I am working on an entire spell rework, part 1 magic system itself, 2 spells that are left and new rituals, part 3(?) misc rules (if any(?)) and part 4, classes... Lots of work, and I am also trying to finish my monk rework, since I did not finish it last year and am working on the Lord Smith with AOKost... oh, and I have a couple of monsters, some prestige classes, some feats... a game i have not played in a long while... AKA a homebrew overload... that's not even mentioning the spellbook. [/ramble]

    On to the actual Class:
    Few comments, as I would say this is... excellent (almost) perhaps? The hat (If I wore a hat) is off for this one, my good sir.

    Notes (in no order at all)

    War: I would say they get EWP if the deities weapon is an exotic one.

    I would give them perform (all), bit that is more of a personal opinion :P

    Exorcise: Makes all those classes that give the fey type rather more risky... I like love it!

    Glad you made it up to the DM for bonus spells from domain

    I like spontaneous, but I'm a non-batman laid back caster type... which is why I can't play TO games as I am too much "ooh, dip for that, it looks cool..." Let's design a 25th level character! [70 levels later] "oops!" . Why charisma though? (No problem with me, just wondering)

    For trickery domain I would give them the ability to not show up on detect spells... of course you aren't really giving class features like that...

    Love the animal domain, and if you don't mind can i partially steal the concept?

    Alignment domians are still kinda blech... maybe immunity/bonus on saves against spells (and spell likes) of the opposite domain?

    animal domain might be able to be abused, with basically an inf poly... can you change shape while in a polymorph effect? I forget ? No, I don;t think so... but there was a class that gave you the ability

    Charm: Maybe an enchanting ability idea?

    death domain is nice

    Light:I would give clerics that have vulnerability to light (drow, vampires etc) lose it, seems fitting

    Plant: seems alright, might steal for some druid related abilities if that's fine?

    War: IMO one of the best domains, better BAB, better save, more spells, skills (and points) along with proficiencies... I would reduce this one, or better I would increase all domains to this power level.

    Overall: I would make domains scale, as dipping is way too good... want a decent vampire necromancer type? First off get the LA fixed to something reasonable (would have to consult the LA reassignment thread to see what they think they're doing good work.) then hit this for a level to get whatever you want... Would you keep DMM with this (Stupid question, since it is one of the most broken feats)?
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH and/or use it.

    Renegade Hippie DM in the Playground

    Extended Signature

    I'm back! Seems it was a bit early to say I had escaped the hospital, then got caught up with RL stuff... I'm back now though.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Vancouver <-> Dublin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Revised Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingAbnormal View Post
    Love this ('cept the removal of druid :smallpout:), and is close to what I intend on for my cleric... except I am making them get death or life as bonus domains at 1st (so they have the whole inflict or heal) and diety domains. Instead of spells they have my ritual system (it is in the works... somewhere ) and abilities depneding on what domains they have, with synergies and whatnot... Basically I am working on an entire spell rework, part 1 magic system itself, 2 spells that are left and new rituals, part 3(?) misc rules (if any(?)) and part 4, classes... Lots of work, and I am also trying to finish my monk rework, since I did not finish it last year and am working on the Lord Smith with AOKost... oh, and I have a couple of monsters, some prestige classes, some feats... a game i have not played in a long while... AKA a homebrew overload... that's not even mentioning the spellbook. [/ramble]

    On to the actual Class:
    Few comments, as I would say this is... excellent (almost) perhaps? The hat (If I wore a hat) is off for this one, my good sir.

    Notes (in no order at all)

    War: I would say they get EWP if the deities weapon is an exotic one.

    I would give them perform (all), bit that is more of a personal opinion :P

    Exorcise: Makes all those classes that give the fey type rather more risky... I like love it!

    Glad you made it up to the DM for bonus spells from domain

    I like spontaneous, but I'm a non-batman laid back caster type... which is why I can't play TO games as I am too much "ooh, dip for that, it looks cool..." Let's design a 25th level character! [70 levels later] "oops!" . Why charisma though? (No problem with me, just wondering)

    For trickery domain I would give them the ability to not show up on detect spells... of course you aren't really giving class features like that...

    Love the animal domain, and if you don't mind can i partially steal the concept?

    Alignment domians are still kinda blech... maybe immunity/bonus on saves against spells (and spell likes) of the opposite domain?

    animal domain might be able to be abused, with basically an inf poly... can you change shape while in a polymorph effect? I forget ? No, I don;t think so... but there was a class that gave you the ability

    Charm: Maybe an enchanting ability idea?

    death domain is nice

    Light:I would give clerics that have vulnerability to light (drow, vampires etc) lose it, seems fitting

    Plant: seems alright, might steal for some druid related abilities if that's fine?

    War: IMO one of the best domains, better BAB, better save, more spells, skills (and points) along with proficiencies... I would reduce this one, or better I would increase all domains to this power level.

    Overall: I would make domains scale, as dipping is way too good... want a decent vampire necromancer type? First off get the LA fixed to something reasonable (would have to consult the LA reassignment thread to see what they think they're doing good work.) then hit this for a level to get whatever you want... Would you keep DMM with this (Stupid question, since it is one of the most broken feats)?
    Good luck to you - after doing even this rework I'm sick of reading through spell lists!

    I'm going to stop myself from adding in class features for now, I always go overboard at first. Maybe after digesting a bit more... divine grace for the alignment domains, maybe? However they're meant to be weaker since basically every deity has one or two of them and you have to take them first.

    The LA thing for Animal and Death is something for the DM to control strictly (e.g. has to happen over the course of a campaign, not as backstory), and even then I may just remove them as they're somewhat niche.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    No where out there <-->

    Default Re: Revised Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    Good luck to you - after doing even this rework I'm sick of reading through spell lists!
    Eh, started I was going to go through all the spells... alright, SpC and PH... PH... There's just so many of them XD
    I'm going to stop myself from adding in class features for now, I always go overboard at first. Maybe after digesting a bit more... divine grace for the alignment domains, maybe? However they're meant to be weaker since basically every deity has one or two of them and you have to take them first.
    In my rework the clerics bread and butter are their domains instead of spell casting, which means I also have to do a domain overhaul and change some things up.
    The LA thing for Animal and Death is something for the DM to control strictly (e.g. has to happen over the course of a campaign, not as backstory), and even then I may just remove them as they're somewhat niche.
    Eh, it may be niche but I love it!
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH and/or use it.

    Renegade Hippie DM in the Playground

    Extended Signature

    I'm back! Seems it was a bit early to say I had escaped the hospital, then got caught up with RL stuff... I'm back now though.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Revised Cleric

    .
    Just wanted to say that this is the best domain Cleric I've seen as far as I can remember.
    From my PoV, only two things stand in the way of declaring it a done deal:
    1. War domain seems significantly superior. It should be leveled with the other domains (or vice versa).
    2. The Druid archetype should get some kind of Wild Shape - even if very limited and only restricted to normal animals. Companion would be covered via Wild Cohort feat.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Vancouver <-> Dublin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Revised Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    .
    Just wanted to say that this is the best domain Cleric I've seen as far as I can remember.
    From my PoV, only two things stand in the way of declaring it a done deal:
    1. War domain seems significantly superior. It should be leveled with the other domains (or vice versa).
    2. The Druid archetype should get some kind of Wild Shape - even if very limited and only restricted to normal animals. Companion would be covered via Wild Cohort feat.
    Thanks! Are you sure it's not too powerful, knowing all the spells automatically? I really feel that's appropriate flavour-wise but it could be broken mechanic-wise.

    1. War gives you great buffs (BAB, proficiencies, etc) but the spells are relatively limited compared to the other domains.
    2. Druids will have to use polymorph effects, no more automatic wild shape (but note that they can stay polymorphed for as long as they wish).
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-10-16 at 03:31 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Revised Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    Thanks! Are you sure it's not too powerful, knowing all the spells automatically? I really feel that's appropriate flavour-wise but it could be broken mechanic-wise.
    Just remove Divine Power and you're basically safe from walking all over melees.




    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    1. War gives you great buffs (BAB, proficiencies, etc) but the spells are relatively limited compared to the other domains.
    I don't know of any official spells that are more powerful than Gate and Miracle (maybe Genesis from Deities and Demigods (3.0e), which any sensible DM would ban).
    On top of that, Mr. War Cleric still has enough domain resources to gain more access to spells.



    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    2. Druids will have to use polymorph effects, no more automatic wild shape (but note that they can stay polymorphed for as long as they wish).
    Fair enough.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Giegue's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009

    Default Re: Revised Cleric

    I must say, you've done some great, great work here! This seems like a ton of fun, and the fact the DM can bar you from certain spells keeps things fairly balanced out. Granted, I still think this is a tier 2 class thats strictly better than things like, say the sorcerer, making it a high tier 2 in theory...but the ability for the DM to just say "no" outright I think keeps it on-par with the other tier 2 classes...so yeah. Pretty nice, either way.

    My only concern, TBH, is that having them just be able to always cast all their spells seems like it could be somewhat broken since they would in theory have a massive list they could spontaneously cast from. Granted, your using the DM to limit this, but thats a lot of work your throwing on the DM. As somebody who's been in both seats, I know as a DM I'd find having to comb through every sourcebook and determine what spells my cleric player does and does not get to be tedious and kinda annoying, so while it's a great way to limit the power of the class in theory, in pratice it ends up being a hassle and fair bit of work for DMs. That being said, it's not a terrible idea....some DMs will be fine with the extra work. However, not every DM will, so as a result I think the ideal compromise would be to have the class have a system similar to the spirit shaman where they get to prepare the list they spontaneously cast from each day by default, but have the way the class works now (limited by DM intervention) presented as an optional rule for DMs who don't mind doing the extra work.

    Just my two copper, though, take it for what you will.
    Last edited by Giegue; 2017-10-16 at 09:00 AM.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    Mine started at a dinner party in the BBEG's estate.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Vancouver <-> Dublin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Revised Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Just remove Divine Power and you're basically safe from walking all over melees.

    I don't know of any official spells that are more powerful than Gate and Miracle (maybe Genesis from Deities and Demigods (3.0e), which any sensible DM would ban).
    On top of that, Mr. War Cleric still has enough domain resources to gain more access to spells.
    I'll leave divine power in (I didn't want to ban specific spells with the interpretation, just restrict them to particular domains)), but of course banning it is always an option.

    Yeah, gate and miracle (and minor miracle) are the uber-spells, but for most of a cleric's career they'll be safely off-limits. However, the domains definitely need fine-tuning, to make them more equivalent against each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giegue View Post
    I must say, you've done some great, great work here! This seems like a ton of fun, and the fact the DM can bar you from certain spells keeps things fairly balanced out. Granted, I still think this is a tier 2 class thats strictly better than things like, say the sorcerer, making it a high tier 2 in theory...but the ability for the DM to just say "no" outright I think keeps it on-par with the other tier 2 classes...so yeah. Pretty nice, either way.

    My only concern, TBH, is that having them just be able to always cast all their spells seems like it could be somewhat broken since they would in theory have a massive list they could spontaneously cast from. Granted, your using the DM to limit this, but thats a lot of work your throwing on the DM. As somebody who's been in both seats, I know as a DM I'd find having to comb through every sourcebook and determine what spells my cleric player does and does not get to be tedious and kinda annoying, so while it's a great way to limit the power of the class in theory, in pratice it ends up being a hassle and fair bit of work for DMs. That being said, it's not a terrible idea....some DMs will be fine with the extra work. However, not every DM will, so as a result I think the ideal compromise would be to have the class have a system similar to the spirit shaman where they get to prepare the list they spontaneously cast from each day by default, but have the way the class works now (limited by DM intervention) presented as an optional rule for DMs who don't mind doing the extra work.

    Just my two copper, though, take it for what you will.
    Yes, the automatic spells known is something I've dithered over. I think what I'll do is write up specific lists (from the SRD), and add a clause that other spells may be added "subject to DM approval". If the lists are still too powerful, then the Spirit Shaman would be the next logical step, though I wish there were a better way to "pray" - if your God is listening, he/she should give you the best aid she can at that time, not a spell you asked for in advance and hoped would be useful haha :D

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •