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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
    That seems reasonable.

    Question about voting. Can we include a vote for something in more than one category? (Say giving the same thing for best use of theme and also include that as one of one's top 3). I'm still thinking about my voting and I would just like to know how restrictive the voting options are.
    As Jorm said, yes you can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Traditionally the answer to this question is "Yes", especially since sometimes (often) there are 6 or fewer entries, so anyone who made an entry is forced to vote for the same thing in two places. In fact, 15 is a comically-large number of entries compared to how many we usually get for these.
    I'm glad I wasn't the only one shocked at the 15 entries
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH Feel free to use it, I would love to hear how it went!

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  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    What about "sandwiches"

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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    I guess there would be a witch made of sand that cooks sandwiches?

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Voting seems slow, so I just want to make sure everyone is aware that the voting thread is up here.
    My homebrew:

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    Completed:
    ToB disciplines:

    The Narrow Bridge
    The Broken Blade

    Prestige classess:
    Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
    The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
    Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
    Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish



    Worthwhile links:

    Age of Warriors

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Tomorrow is the last day for voting, keep in mind if you do not vote your entry will be disqualified from the voting thread.
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH Feel free to use it, I would love to hear how it went!

    Renegade Hippie DM in the Playground

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    Prestige Class Contest 3.X, Race to the Top

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  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    I forgot about this for a while... oops.

    @JoshuaZ, thanks for your critiques, but it is sadly to late for that to make much of a difference
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    Yes, but immunity to wizard and resistance to fighter kinda makes up for it.
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  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by neriractor View Post
    3rd Vote: The Hive Master- I always wanted to play this type of character, and was heavily dissapointed on the versions of this concept made in official sources. I really like this class, every ability you gain being meaningful and able to escalate with the character while encouraging thought on swarm positioning and how many of them you really need to control, the class has clearly had a lot of thought put into it and it is great, plus it has some wilder love which is something I approve of. That said, I really think the class would benefit from some improvements, such as being a bit more specific how you actually give order to the swarms? specifically for vermins and other mindless swarms as well as an actual action expenditure for taking control of swarms, even if it is a free action.
    Thanks for the complements! And it's not that it has a lot of thought put into it, it's that I ran some numbers to make sure it wasn't going to be busted. The point of the Primal/Druid-type-Divine casting stacking with Animal Companion was to give some better control over hit dice allocations, as the SRD Swarms fall off in usefulness soon after you can enter the PRC in the first place.

    See, one of the things I planned was to have a generalized Swarm setup to make Hive Minds and Hive Masters suffer fewer problems from the honestly horrible selection of Vermin Swarms. But that quickly grew to become rather hard to work with as a monster entry, so I started trying to rework it as a monster "class" to reduce mechanical complexity. And then I got distracted by my old Crysmal monster class that I wanted to make a proper set of three racial substitution levels for and... Yeah.

    Orders... Didn't think crunch was really needed, as a lot of summon spells donít bother specifying how orders are given. It's generally assumed to be automatic and no-particular-power-source-telepathic. As for action requirements, a cursory glance kinda brings up fundamental issues with the lack of an action requirement. Swift Action would kinda cut needs for Quickened Spell in anti-Vermin situations, and lets the caster continue working properly. It's also easy enough to get extras of that you can reliably have multiple attempts at the start of a fight.
    My most liked class, thematically, is the Artificer. Make free items! (fail by RAW to)Hold up the setting! Have access to every magic item...
    My most liked class, mechanically, is the Bard. I sing the enemy to death! (at level 21)I talk you into a suicidal fanatic! I need to cheese rules that make me sing as I fight or talk to get things done...

    I prefer t2 over anything else, because t2 lets you become anything. I think Psionics is more versatile than magic.

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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    (13th: The Hive Master.) Probably needs spellcasting, doesn't advance it without special use of their third-level ability. Requires level 10, but at ECL 13, you can cast as a 28th-level cleric, paladin or favoured soul. Glorious. The power of this class is not so much the swarms (I would leave them at home) but the bonuses you get for having them.
    The spellcasting on the 3rd level ability is intentional, because the 3rd level ability is the casting progression mechanic. It's to force losing at least one level of casting for the minimum control cap. There's also two clauses preventing whatever build you're thinking of. Your effective level for any parameter can not exceed your character level from Motes of Power, nor can you take a penalty to Will saves higher than your base Will save bonus from hit dice.

    Although range limits will need added in a revision. How the heck did I miss that... And where are you getting 28th level casting from, you need four Swarm HD for each pick off the Motes of Power list. And the Will save is a -1 per HD past the lower limit, so you'd need a base Will save bonus from hit dice alone of +10 to get the upper limit of 18 Swarm HD at three levels of Hive Master. Now, at ECL 20 PRC stacking can possibly be used to acquire a +17 base bonus(not actually clear on the rules, but it's meant to be non-trivial, possibly impossible pre-Epic), but +10 at ECL 13? How do you get that from base Will save?

    I put in limiting clauses that make it a colossal pain in the ass to actually come out considerably ahead in progressions.

    ...Seriously, did you actually bother reading it? Because you seem to have missed every limiting clause and utterly ignored the explanation for a class feature's existence. The only complaint you have that's actually valid, given the design idea of not having a normal casting progression I stated multiple times, is the range limit. Or rather the lack of one.

    You appear to have massively, absurdly failed reading comprehension and not seen the conversation about it. The absolute maximum progression of casting is 1.5 per level, no matter how hard you optimize your Will save, which is behind Ur Priest. Tell me what the sweet hell you saw in it to make you believe you can get 15 more levels of casting than the literal hard limit.
    My most liked class, thematically, is the Artificer. Make free items! (fail by RAW to)Hold up the setting! Have access to every magic item...
    My most liked class, mechanically, is the Bard. I sing the enemy to death! (at level 21)I talk you into a suicidal fanatic! I need to cheese rules that make me sing as I fight or talk to get things done...

    I prefer t2 over anything else, because t2 lets you become anything. I think Psionics is more versatile than magic.

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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    I did misread it as 1 per hit die, rather than per 4, as I was trying to review 14 classes (with varying numbers of terrible class features that should never have been typed) in a reasonable time. The class "Only" allows you to be one level ahead of a standard cleric at third level and two ahead at fourth and fifth levels.

    However, I'm confused by the idea that it's hard to get a +10 base will save bonus on a cleric 10/hive master 3, who has, by default... a +10 base will save bonus. Maybe you didn't get that you, and I quote, "Add the base save bonuses for each class together", and yes that includes the +2. Maybe you always play with the fractional base attack and saves alternate rule, where you don't generally count the +2 each time. Whatever the reason, it's trivial to get the +10 will save bonus, to the effect that you can do it accidentally easily enough.
    Last edited by Jormengand; 2017-11-30 at 06:05 AM.
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Cleric?/church inquisitor 1 or 2/a bunch of other dips in prcs/Hive Master.
    Congratulation you can probably have 14 to your will save by the time you get hive master.

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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    1st: The Atomos Mage. This is cool and apart from spelling I can't see anything wrong with it. You might want to check the numbers on getting atomos points a bit more because you might be able to steal too many with salvage arcana (doubling your atomos pool might be too much?) but I haven't run the numbers properly so I dunno I like to pray and hope that this one is Most Likely to See Play.
    Yeah, for all the fact that my early comments on other entries included spelling and grammar issues, my own entry has an embarrassingly large number of them. After the contest I'll put up an updated one; if you see any spelling or other issues please let me know since I may not have found all of them.

    As for the number of atomos points, I'm not sure. Earlier drafts had too few, but this may be too many. I'll need to think about it more. If you have more specific thoughts about that, I'll be happy to hear them.
    My homebrew:

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    Completed:
    ToB disciplines:

    The Narrow Bridge
    The Broken Blade

    Prestige classess:
    Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
    The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
    Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
    Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish



    Worthwhile links:

    Age of Warriors

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I did misread it as 1 per hit die, rather than per 4, as I was trying to review 14 classes (with varying numbers of terrible class features that should never have been typed) in a reasonable time. The class "Only" allows you to be one level ahead of a standard cleric at third level and two ahead at fourth and fifth levels.

    However, I'm confused by the idea that it's hard to get a +10 base will save bonus on a cleric 10/hive master 3, who has, by default... a +10 base will save bonus. Maybe you didn't get that you, and I quote, "Add the base save bonuses for each class together", and yes that includes the +2. Maybe you always play with the fractional base attack and saves alternate rule, where you don't generally count the +2 each time. Whatever the reason, it's trivial to get the +10 will save bonus, to the effect that you can do it accidentally easily enough.
    ...No, it doesn't let you get actually ahead on casting, because there's a clause specifically preventing any parameter's effective level exceeding your character level(although this does mean LA can be compensated for fairly easily). This applies to everything on the Motes of Power list.

    And if you have exactly a +10 from 10 levels of strong Will save, followed by 3 levels of Hive Master... You're burning up your entire stock of Will save and are knocked out for 1d4 hours if you take any level drain at all, whether it's permanent or not. Assuming you took a one-level dip of Druid(or of Cleric as a 9th level Druid), you have a wiggle room of one point of Will save. You can get +12 on the base save if you go for 8 levels in one and two in the other, whichever way you feel like splitting it, but that cuts a spell level from Cleric's base. If you pull a multiclass soup, PRC stacking or base mixing, it gets pretty easy to get the +17 by level 20.
    My most liked class, thematically, is the Artificer. Make free items! (fail by RAW to)Hold up the setting! Have access to every magic item...
    My most liked class, mechanically, is the Bard. I sing the enemy to death! (at level 21)I talk you into a suicidal fanatic! I need to cheese rules that make me sing as I fight or talk to get things done...

    I prefer t2 over anything else, because t2 lets you become anything. I think Psionics is more versatile than magic.

    Homebrewer's sig

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengandr
    It has some issues. One, d4 hit die and rewards being in melee combat. With no armour. Having to go up to nine levels specifically in a mid-BAB class also hurts. Why nine, anyway? I could see it on a cat class (See also: the fact that Iot7V is seven levels long) but normally PrCs aren't exactly nine levels long.
    Not sure why I was thinking that was good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengandr
    Why does shrink have a duration limit when it's your main selling point? You can only spend a single hour in fine size at eighth level. That's awful for something that's meant to be your key feature.
    I'll be honest, I was thinking that it was too powerful and that it needed nerfed, but since it was the main thing I was dealing with I wanted to keep it in. Apparently I hit it with the nerf bat way too hard and way too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengandr
    Ant strength is weird. It's a buff to strength on a class which shouldn't be relying on strength. "Original dexterity" is badly defined - you should really use "Base dexterity" because no record is usually kept of a creature's original dexterity that they had at level 1 (and it gets worse if you use, say, the variety of young creature rules which increase the kid's dexterity). The level 6 version incidentally is based on the ability which is already too limited in duration.
    Yeah, I should have made it just give you the option of using your Dex bonus instead of Str bonus to Str checks and damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengandr
    The Bigger They Are doesn't negate the creature's own grapple bonuses from size so good luck using it reliably. It also isn't quite clear on how it functions (how do you get off, how do they get you off, what happens if...) and you shouldn't make up new rules if you're not prepared to explain how they work in great detail.
    I'll admit I bit off a bit* too much there.
    *Not the right word but I'm too tired to think about what it should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengandr
    Puny power is awful. It forces three die rolls to use successfully and doesn't do anything that's more than situational. Stinging strike is a meh "You can now actually use these features properly" feature, without which pinpoint strikes is pointless because you do about 1 damage without SA.
    I hit that too hard as well and for some reason thought "Yup, allowing something that should have been a straight class feature anyways works great as a capstone!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengandr
    The whole class is a nice idea, but an inglorious mess in play. Source: I playtested it.
    Yeah, I was trying to make it not super powerful and I obviously overcompensated way too much.
    Last edited by Aniikinis; 2017-12-01 at 10:30 AM.
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    2nd: The Sparrow Rider. Unless I'm missing something, this doesn't usually actually allow you to ride sparrows. No clue why it's nine levels long. I do like the idea of riding tiny tiny creatures, so take a Best Use of Theme on the house.
    Thanks!!!

    No, you aren't missing anything per say... The only official stats for sparrows I can find are in Oriental Adventures, where they're listed as Fine... Since there isn't a size category smaller than that, they cannot be ridden...

    However, some species of True Sparrows (family Passeridae) can be as large as 7 inches which would qualify as diminutive if someone wanted to homebrew multiple species of sparrows... American Sparrows (subgroup within family Emberizidae) include species up to 9 inches, quite comfortably diminutive if someone wanted to create staats for them... Either way, a character with nine levels of Sparrow Rider and of a normally small race could ride a diminutive sparrow.

    Alternatively, Fine could be split into more categories:3-6 inches and either 0-3 in or (1.5-3 in and 0-1.5 in). Sparrows would then be in the 3-6 in category and Ride Small would allow a character who was normally tiny to ride them.

    As for the 9 levels... honestly, I'm not sure why I originally chose 9... But I do like 9. It's a nice square number. Largest single digit number in base 10 (If you care about base 10... Yuck...). An even 3/4 of the way through the best base. ...Yeah, I think I'm going with, "Because 9 is an awesome number"

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranged Ranger View Post
    Thanks!!!

    No, you aren't missing anything per say... The only official stats for sparrows I can find are in Oriental Adventures, where they're listed as Fine... Since there isn't a size category smaller than that, they cannot be ridden...

    However, some species of True Sparrows (family Passeridae) can be as large as 7 inches which would qualify as diminutive if someone wanted to homebrew multiple species of sparrows... American Sparrows (subgroup within family Emberizidae) include species up to 9 inches, quite comfortably diminutive if someone wanted to create staats for them... Either way, a character with nine levels of Sparrow Rider and of a normally small race could ride a diminutive sparrow.

    Alternatively, Fine could be split into more categories:3-6 inches and either 0-3 in or (1.5-3 in and 0-1.5 in). Sparrows would then be in the 3-6 in category and Ride Small would allow a character who was normally tiny to ride them.

    As for the 9 levels... honestly, I'm not sure why I originally chose 9... But I do like 9. It's a nice square number. Largest single digit number in base 10 (If you care about base 10... Yuck...). An even 3/4 of the way through the best base. ...Yeah, I think I'm going with, "Because 9 is an awesome number"
    Well, "Sparrow Rider" sounds a lot more thematicly appropriate than say Hawk Rider, since everyone knows sparrows are itty bit.

    9 is also good because it is the largest power of 3 which is one more than a power of 2 (proven by Gersonides about 700 years ago), and 9 the only perfect square that is one more than a positive perfect cube (proven by Fermat I think). Actually both of those are implied by the much stronger statement of Catalan's Conjecture, which states that 8 and 9 are the only perfect powers which are consecutive. This was an open problem until very recently when it was proven by Mihalesco (early 2000s). So yeah, 9 is a pretty cool number.

    From a more D&D 3.5/PF relevant standpoint, I think there's a real unfortunate tendency to force PrCs into 5 or 10 levels. If one has some other number of class levels, then making it around that many levels is often better. To use a different example, in my Atomos Mage PrC it ended up as 8 levels, not because any numerology related to 8 but because I had about 8 levels worth of class features, and because there would be balance issues with some of the class features which scaled based on class level if they went up to 10.
    My homebrew:

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    Completed:
    ToB disciplines:

    The Narrow Bridge
    The Broken Blade

    Prestige classess:
    Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
    The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
    Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
    Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish



    Worthwhile links:

    Age of Warriors

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    whats next on the contest list? I heard someone sugest "Creepy Crawlies" which im game for as ive got half an idea brewing for it already.
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    The Smirugh Uber Epic (dnd 3.5 level 100 pentastalt) : Game Died, GM evaporation.
    Jonathan Hawkwood Reincarnation wars : Game Died player evaporation
    Maro Reus AKA Flashback Project Tarot, a worm verse game. Game tentatively kicking.
    Character Identity Power Ratings
    Marco Reus Flashback Personal Pocket-Dimension Inhabited by Malevolent PTSD Master/Shaker 8, Striker 5, Stranger 6

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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by gawwy View Post
    whats next on the contest list? I heard someone sugest "Creepy Crawlies" which im game for as ive got half an idea brewing for it already.
    Quite a few things have been tossed around as potential ideas, I have a concept in making or most, and suggest you lot vote for the next concept .

    I'll tally up the votes for the voting thread today.
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    my vote is for Switch hitters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Ah, yes, trolls, the monsters that are such wusses their primary means of reproduction is being eaten by other creatures.
    Quote Originally Posted by 5ColouredWalker View Post
    With all this talk of half dragon cohorts I may need to scrap riding a actual Dragon given how unoptimized it is.
    hey, order a gig here: https://www.fiverr.com/neriractor

    I would really appreciate it.

    homebrew:
    shadowdancer rework

    human ranger substitution levels

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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    My vote is for Best of My Race (Paragons) or Creepy Crawlies
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  21. - Top - End - #201
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    annoyed Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
    Maybe something went wrong with tallying votes? I can't see my master of needles getting all that votes.
    I hate tables. Will be fixed momentarily.
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingAbnormal View Post
    I hate tables. Will be fixed momentarily.
    Think I fixed it... If anyone spots any other errors please point them out! I think I got them all, but I've also slept 4 hours in the past 2 days

    Sorry about that!
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH Feel free to use it, I would love to hear how it went!

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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I


    Noice.
    Come now Alice
    There's no time to cry...
    Tears of woe
    Won't help you get bye...


    Black for normal/uncaring/bored. Red for excited. Purple for in love. White for hidden messages. Green for hatred. Grey for being a jerk/sarcastic bum.

    For some strange reason I have a severe reaction to sunlight when it hits my eyes, no clue why or what causes it so yeah...
    The Rest of my Signature
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingAbnormal View Post
    -SNIP-

    1st Place: The Wasp by Aniikinis.

    Most Likely to See Play: The Wasp by Aniikinis.
    Best Use of Theme: [/SIZE] Well, seems we have a massive tie here, with:
    Congrats, Aniikinis! A well-earned Triple Crown!!

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingAbnormal View Post
    -SNIP-
    2nd Place: Sparrow Riders by Ranged Ranger

    Best Use of Theme: [/SIZE] Well, seems we have a massive tie here, with:
    Wow, thanks, Everybody!
    ...
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    Woot!


    Quote Originally Posted by NothingAbnormal View Post
    3rd Place: The Hive Master by Morphic tide

    Most Original: The Intern by Lanth Sor

    Best Use of Theme:
    Well, seems we have a massive tie here, with:
    Congratz to Morphic tide, Lanth Sor, Jormengand, and Joshua Z! Great Job to all of you!
    Last edited by Ranged Ranger; 2017-12-04 at 12:00 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #205
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Congratulations everybody! This was a nice one!!!

    I hope to do better in the next contest!
    Last edited by MrNobody; 2017-12-04 at 12:30 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Aniikinis's Avatar

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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Gratz to all! Now, to decide on the next theme...
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  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Baby Gary's Avatar

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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    I like the idea of paragons. Another thing that would be cool would be something related to the outer planes. I find planar travel prett fun
    Muad'drin tia dar allende caba'drin rhiadem! Los Valdar Cuebiyari! Los! Carai an Caldazar! Al Caldazar!

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  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    So, it seems these are the opinions for the next contest, which I hope to start by the 12th if that works for everyone's schedule.
    • Creepy Crawlies-, Gawwy
    • Best of my Race (Paragons)-Aniikinis, Baby Gary
    • Switch hitters-Morphic tide, neriractor
    • "salvation and Damnation" -Me
    • "Planes"-Baby Gary

    So it seems we have a tie between the first three . Well, Aniikinis I guess you have to make up your mind about which (CC or BoMR) you want to vote for as does Baby Gary on the matter of planes or paragons.
    Last edited by NothingAbnormal; 2017-12-05 at 09:35 AM.
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    Prestige Class Contest 3.X, Race to the Top

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  29. - Top - End - #209
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    Aniikinis's Avatar

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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    I think I'm in the mood for some paragons
    Come now Alice
    There's no time to cry...
    Tears of woe
    Won't help you get bye...


    Black for normal/uncaring/bored. Red for excited. Purple for in love. White for hidden messages. Green for hatred. Grey for being a jerk/sarcastic bum.

    For some strange reason I have a severe reaction to sunlight when it hits my eyes, no clue why or what causes it so yeah...
    The Rest of my Signature
    My Hombrew

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    NothingAbnormal's Avatar

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    Default Re: Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread I

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniikinis View Post
    I think I'm in the mood for some paragons
    So now it is paragons vs switch hitters .
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH Feel free to use it, I would love to hear how it went!

    Renegade Hippie DM in the Playground

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    "There are many here among us,
    Who feel that life is but a joke"


    Prestige Class Contest 3.X, Race to the Top

    Chat Thread || Voting Thread

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