Bard feat/ability score advice?

[Alejandro]

1 Life Cleric/7 Lore Bard. Soon to be 8 Lore Bard.

Trying to decide between raising Charisma to 20, or taking a feat. Possibly Inspiring Leader, Ritual Caster, Healer (am also trained in Medicine.)

Other party members aren't really spellcasters. There's a monk with a level of cleric, and the rogue is an arcane trickster that has also taken two levels of cleric, but rarely casts anything other than Shield and Cure Wounds. I am the primary spellcaster.

Any advice from people who have been there? Is the maximized casting stat that important? Is Ritual Caster worth it, or are there just not enough (wizard) rituals? Etc. Much appreciated.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Boosting a spell save bonus by 1 by raising Charisma seems like a 5% improvement for every spell save and CHA ability check.

How useful would the feats have been or are likely to be?

[JNAProductions]

Inspiring Leader is a great feat. Free THP on everyone? Yes please.

Ritual Caster might be worth it, if you have a source of getting rituals.

Healer... Probably not. You have Healing Word, right?

That being said! Charisma could be bumped to 20 IF YOU ARE THE ONLY FACE. I wouldn't worry too much about combat effectiveness-you should do just fine-but face duties might need your Charisma up high.

[Alejandro]

Inspiring Leader is a great feat. Free THP on everyone? Yes please.

Ritual Caster might be worth it, if you have a source of getting rituals.

Healer... Probably not. You have Healing Word, right?

That being said! Charisma could be bumped to 20 IF YOU ARE THE ONLY FACE. I wouldn't worry too much about combat effectiveness-you should do just fine-but face duties might need your Charisma up high.

I'm pretty much the only face, but I do a pretty good job of that already, between being trained in the relevant skills, having Enhance Ability, and Guidance for a boost on a skill check. And yes, I do have Healing Word, from Cleric 1.

[Biggstick]

There doesn't seem to be a huge number of PC's in the party. Are you guys constantly engaging in combat? Are you spending more then you feel you should healing party members? If you're constantly in combat, Inspiring Leader is an amazing ability to have on top of your "extra Bard healing" during a short rest.

If your party isn't in combat too often in which your HP needs to be stretched further, I'd go with the +2 Charisma. A bonus to your checks, an increased spell save DC, and an additional use of Bardic Inspiration (or Cutting Words in your case, if I'm assuming Lore Bard correctly) per short rest.

[Aaron Underhand]

Situation / universe is everything for selecting feats:

Healer and Inspiring leader are great in large parties, not so much if there is just three of you. Also less use if potions or goodberries are freely available.

Ritual caster is also a great flavour feat - I'm playing a Bard 4/Wizard 1 in a party of 6 with the healer feat, and really rate both the healing and the rituals that I have. I will take the Tiny Hut as a bard spell, as I only get rituals as a 1st level wizard.

Like you I am the only arcane caster. That means primarily AoE is needed - Our party has a Cleric for buffs and a Druid for battlefield control. You have another cleric for bless, I can see your concentration being battlefield control (Hypnotic Pattern?)- and then some AoE (Shatter or did you take Fireball at 6th?)

In that circumstance you may like a similar plot to my planned 9th level feat....

Alert

Never surprised +5 to Init. Add in JoaT and you should go first a lot of the time - if your universe includes a reasonable amount of surprise rounds you can easily get more than 5% extra damage from having first go, plus you shape the battlefield.

Not to mention it is so much fun! It's easy to manage, because it cuts in every time you roll initiative - and for gravy it occasionally denies sniper and assassin rogues their sneak attack damage - be badass - get Alert...

Unless of course you already found a weapon of warning....

[Alejandro]

Biggstick, Aaron: There are actually six other players besides myself, it's just that they can't ever all game. So I don't know for sure which party members and how many of them I will have. There is an 8th level wizard, but he can't come often.

We don't have trouble healing, no. My policy is, I don't cast healing spells until someone actually goes down; they can fight at 5 hp as well as at 50. No one minds and we do well with this.

We actually usually only manage one combat encounter per gaming session (6-7 hours) because some of the players take a long time to roleplay everything they do (musing about the hair colors and sexual orientations and motives of everyone we meet) and if we do have a combat encounter, they can easily take 10 or more rounds to resolve, because some of the players are not very good at doing damage well (attacking different enemies instead of focusing on one and taking it down, not making good use of all their abilities, etc.)

For example, the rogue can cast Bless (multiclass Cleric) but never does so, even though I have pointed out they could use it to help ensure their attacks will hit, and thus deliver their Sneak Attack.

We don't roll initiative often more than once a gaming session, so Alert would be fairly wasted.

[EKruze]

1 Life Cleric/7 Lore Bard. Soon to be 8 Lore Bard.

Trying to decide between raising Charisma to 20, or taking a feat.

As a Lore Bard I strongly recommend maxing your Charisma as soon as you can. In addition to improving your spells that's also another use of the excellent Cutting Words each rest. There's so much upside to this move.

[Specter]

Don't forget Resilient(CON) or War Caster; your best spells should be relying on concentration, and you don't want it gone in the thick of things.

[Alejandro]

Don't forget Resilient(CON) or War Caster; your best spells should be relying on concentration, and you don't want it gone in the thick of things.

True. Though I do well at that, I wear full plate armor and use a shield, and have a CON of 16 :) Some NPCs think I am a paladin.

[Specter]

True. Though I do well at that, I wear full plate armor and use a shield, and have a CON of 16 :) Some NPCs think I am a paladin.

In that case, you want War Caster doubly. If you want to cast your bard spells, you'll need either a free hand or that. If you don't use a weapon, it still holds true, because you can use your spells instead of attacks for opportunity attacks, and even something as simple as Command or Hold Person can wreck the enemy in these situations.

Plus, a +3 CON mod doesn't hold well on higher levels for concentration. If an enemy deals 30 damage to you, which is pretty commonplace by then, you'd need to roll a 12 or higher to keep concentration, and that's not something you can count on.

[Alejandro]

In that case, you want War Caster doubly. If you want to cast your bard spells, you'll need either a free hand or that. If you don't use a weapon, it still holds true, because you can use your spells instead of attacks for opportunity attacks, and even something as simple as Command or Hold Person can wreck the enemy in these situations.

Plus, a +3 CON mod doesn't hold well on higher levels for concentration. If an enemy deals 30 damage to you, which is pretty commonplace by then, you'd need to roll a 12 or higher to keep concentration, and that's not something you can count on.

That's a decent point. I do keep a free hand when I need to cast spells (except the few I have that are no somatic needed) but it would be handy. We are playing OOTA, and my PC got the light-blade sword Dawnbringer, as I'm a worshipper/cleric of Lathander. :)

[Citan]

1 Life Cleric/7 Lore Bard. Soon to be 8 Lore Bard.

Trying to decide between raising Charisma to 20, or taking a feat. Possibly Inspiring Leader, Ritual Caster, Healer (am also trained in Medicine.)

Other party members aren't really spellcasters. There's a monk with a level of cleric, and the rogue is an arcane trickster that has also taken two levels of cleric, but rarely casts anything other than Shield and Cure Wounds. I am the primary spellcaster.

Any advice from people who have been there? Is the maximized casting stat that important? Is Ritual Caster worth it, or are there just not enough (wizard) rituals? Etc. Much appreciated.

Hi.

Well...
IF, I really say IF, you main role in party is to spend all slots on trying to debuff enemies, then yes, bumping CHA is the best choice.

Otherwise, by FAR, you'd better take one of those three feats aforementioned.

1. Inspiring Leader is the "default" great choice: THP on every short rest is great for any party.

2. Healer feat is the "potentially better" choice: unlike IL's THP who cannot be "stacked upon", Healer can be repeatedly used as long as there are still HP to recover (and you take a short rest between uses obviously). Since as a Lore Bard you can (and probably have) learned Leomund's Tiny Hut which you can ritual cast, if you often manage to find safe places to take short rests, this has much better return on investment. Same if anyone can grab Rope Trick, including yourself with a Magic Secrets.

3. Ritual Caster is an original beast. IF...
- Nobody else in party can grab at least first and 2nd level rituals among the most important (Detect Magic, Identify, Alarm, Gentle Repose, Unseen Servant, and a few others I certainly forgot).
- AND you know for sure your DM will give you many chances to learn rituals...
Then take this. Otherwise, forget it. You already get LTH as Bard, if there is another high-level ritual that is important for you you can grab later as Magic Secrets.

I'd probably pick Inspiring Leader only if I liked the fluff that goes with (maybe even actually improviding those eloquent speeches ;)).
Otherwise, I'll certainly pick Healer (paying a few GP for a stack is worth. Of course, try to not lose your equipment ^^), especially since the fluff fits your Medicine proficiency.

We don't have trouble healing, no. My policy is, I don't cast healing spells until someone actually goes down; they can fight at 5 hp as well as at 50. No one minds and we do well with this.

We actually usually only manage one combat encounter per gaming session (6-7 hours) because some of the players take a long time to roleplay everything they do (musing about the hair colors and sexual orientations and motives of everyone we meet) and if we do have a combat encounter, they can easily take 10 or more rounds to resolve, because some of the players are not very good at doing damage well (attacking different enemies instead of focusing on one and taking it down, not making good use of all their abilities, etc.)

We don't roll initiative often more than once a gaming session, so Alert would be fairly wasted.

That's a decent point. I do keep a free hand when I need to cast spells (except the few I have that are no somatic needed) but it would be handy. We are playing OOTA, and my PC got the light-blade sword Dawnbringer, as I'm a worshipper/cleric of Lathander. :)

Wow. Ok, I didn't see that part before posting.
Ok, scratch what I said. If basically you have at most one encounter per adventuring day, then Healer is clearly not worth it. Ritual Caster neither (most of the adventuring rituals on detection/localization can be covered by someone else in party, or NPC, or maybe even scrolls).

If you don't feel there are problems with HP levels, then Inspiring Leader neither (at the very least it can wait).

As Specter suggested, pick Warcaster. For a Bard with S&B, there is no argue it's by far your better choice, whatever way you look at this. And maybe plan on grabbing some good, lasting AOE to divide and conquer (like a Wall * spell) or Spirit Guardians to tank yourself.
OR, if you feel that you don't need "in general" any boost to combat efficiency, pick Observant or Actor: since you seem you have much roleplay and less combat involved, these could be of good use.

[Alejandro]

Hi.

Well...
IF, I really say IF, you main role in party is to spend all slots on trying to debuff enemies, then yes, bumping CHA is the best choice.

Otherwise, by FAR, you'd better take one of those three feats aforementioned.

1. Inspiring Leader is the "default" great choice: THP on every short rest is great for any party.

2. Healer feat is the "potentially better" choice: unlike IL's THP who cannot be "stacked upon", Healer can be repeatedly used as long as there are still HP to recover (and you take a short rest between uses obviously). Since as a Lore Bard you can (and probably have) learned Leomund's Tiny Hut which you can ritual cast, if you often manage to find safe places to take short rests, this has much better return on investment. Same if anyone can grab Rope Trick, including yourself with a Magic Secrets.

3. Ritual Caster is an original beast. IF...
- Nobody else in party can grab at least first and 2nd level rituals among the most important (Detect Magic, Identify, Alarm, Gentle Repose, Unseen Servant, and a few others I certainly forgot).
- AND you know for sure your DM will give you many chances to learn rituals...
Then take this. Otherwise, forget it. You already get LTH as Bard, if there is another high-level ritual that is important for you you can grab later as Magic Secrets.

I'd probably pick Inspiring Leader only if I liked the fluff that goes with (maybe even actually improviding those eloquent speeches ;)).
Otherwise, I'll certainly pick Healer (paying a few GP for a stack is worth. Of course, try to not lose your equipment ^^), especially since the fluff fits your Medicine proficiency.



Wow. Ok, I didn't see that part before posting.
Ok, scratch what I said. If basically you have at most one encounter per adventuring day, then Healer is clearly not worth it. Ritual Caster neither (most of the adventuring rituals on detection/localization can be covered by someone else in party, or NPC, or maybe even scrolls).

If you don't feel there are problems with HP levels, then Inspiring Leader neither (at the very least it can wait).

As Specter suggested, pick Warcaster. For a Bard with S&B, there is no argue it's by far your better choice, whatever way you look at this. And maybe plan on grabbing some good, lasting AOE to divide and conquer (like a Wall * spell) or Spirit Guardians to tank yourself.
OR, if you feel that you don't need "in general" any boost to combat efficiency, pick Observant or Actor: since you seem you have much roleplay and less combat involved, these could be of good use.

Thank you for the insightful advice. I may still pick Ritual Caster, though:

- There isn't 'someone else in the party' to cover most of them. We usually have no wizard at all, and the other casters don't have any rituals besides Unseen Servant, I think. Maybe Detect Magic? They aren't good spellcasters.

- We don't have an NPC ritual caster either, nor do we often see any scrolls.

- The GM hinted to me that we may, however, find some juicy spellbook prizes, which may contain many rituals.

- I kind of want a familiar, just to show the other players how immensely useful they are (they don't believe me, even the one with 16 INT that steadfastly refuses to consider a few levels of wizard.)