League of Legends LXVIII: "MY PICK'EMS!" Part II: Who Didn't Get Out of Groups?

[Reinboom]

There are premade pages, and while each page doesn't apply to every champion, every champion can use at least one page well.

Exactly this. The premades should give you a starting point that's simple and out of the way.

We also swap out 0 value runes once you get to the game. For example, even though the default pages have manaflow band, if you load into game with Mundo, Garen, etc. you'll end up with something else (Spellparry Sigil in that case).

[Forum Explorer]

Exactly this. The premades should give you a starting point that's simple and out of the way.

We also swap out 0 value runes once you get to the game. For example, even though the default pages have manaflow band, if you load into game with Mundo, Garen, etc. you'll end up with something else (Spellparry Sigil in that case).

Oh sweet.

Question though, will we eventually be given full control over the default rune pages? Or at least the option to hide them? With only 2 Custom Rune Pages it's not bad, but I imagine it's going to be cluttered once I get up to 6 or 7 Customs.

[Reinboom]

Oh sweet.

Question though, will we eventually be given full control over the default rune pages? Or at least the option to hide them? With only 2 Custom Rune Pages it's not bad, but I imagine it's going to be cluttered once I get up to 6 or 7 Customs.

We're adding the option to hide them. Couldn't get to it for release.

[Vogie]

So, I was testing out some of the new runes, and found some interactions to be aware of.

Kleptomancy doesn't seem to generate any potions if you have a refillable potion equipped. Elixers and wards still generate.

If you are full on items and Klept something, it seems to automatically apply. The potion or biscut will start ticking, the Elixir seems to be applied immediately. I noticed this by going in for a gank and suddenly had an oracles' eye above my head. When you gain a stealth ward, it does not jump into your trinket, but hangs out in your inventory (I haven't tried it with Sightstone yet).

As you could probably guess, Kleptomancy on Ornn is downright hysterical.

Singed's Fling does trigger Aftershock (even if you don't root them into glue) but you have to turn around for it to hit, because it's a very small PAoE. Also, the Arcane Comet does a neat little curly Q thing when triggered by Fling.

[Ivellius]

So, I was testing out some of the new runes, and found some interactions to be aware of.

Kleptomancy doesn't seem to generate any potions if you have a refillable potion equipped. Elixers and wards still generate.

If you are full on items and Klept something, it seems to automatically apply. The potion or biscut will start ticking, the Elixir seems to be applied immediately. I noticed this by going in for a gank and suddenly had an oracles' eye above my head. When you gain a stealth ward, it does not jump into your trinket, but hangs out in your inventory (I haven't tried it with Sightstone yet).

As you could probably guess, Kleptomancy on Ornn is downright hysterical.

Singed's Fling does trigger Aftershock (even if you don't root them into glue) but you have to turn around for it to hit, because it's a very small PAoE. Also, the Arcane Comet does a neat little curly Q thing when triggered by Fling.

Good stuff to know. Ornn especially seems like a good tip.

My experiences thus far:

Aftershock seems pretty strong on tank junglers.

I'm not sure if Ivern has a great capstone? He's kind of weird now--well, always was, I guess.

Boy, Aatrox top is kind of bad.

[Olinser]

Good stuff to know. Ornn especially seems like a good tip.

My experiences thus far:

Aftershock seems pretty strong on tank junglers.

I'm not sure if Ivern has a great capstone? He's kind of weird now--well, always was, I guess.

Boy, Aatrox top is kind of bad.

I mean, Aatrox top has been bad since season.... 3?

[Techwarrior]

Yea, the only thing you get out of Aatrox top is the people not knowing how to play around your level 2 or 3 all-ins. You can do it level 2 with Q/W, but level 3 lets you get the E to add to your burst. If you can abuse getting an early first blood super hard, he can be good, but otherwise he's bad. And this was all before his passive change.

[Ivellius]

I mean, Aatrox top has been bad since season.... 3?

He was okay until the rework; now it's almost impossible to actually get your passive revive working, which is a big part of fighting someone. :(

I mean, he's basically a much worse Kled.

[sonofzeal]

Is there any of the new Rune pregens that's particularly useful in the lowest of the skill brackets? Anything with passive gold generation, or that'll help last-hitting?

[Ivellius]

Is there any of the new Rune pregens that's particularly useful in the lowest of the skill brackets? Anything with passive gold generation, or that'll help last-hitting?

The Kleptomancy capstone might fit the bill there, assuming you're harassing people with autos. You get free stuff for it.

There's a "Minion Dematerializer" item off a mastery, too, that gives you extra damage against the types of minions you use it on.

[9mm]

It'll be interesting to see what Riot does with champs that had more specific rune/masteries, like Kayle required 20% cdr to actually hit her powerspikes.

[Antonok]

Is it me, or do the rune changes just really screw over non tank junglers? The first clear is brutal now.

[Ivellius]

It'll be interesting to see what Riot does with champs that had more specific rune/masteries, like Kayle required 20% cdr to actually hit her powerspikes.

Pretty sure her E CD is lower, given...

Is it me, or do the rune changes just really screw over non tank junglers? The first clear is brutal now.

I played Kayle jungle last night! It went really poorly; as you noted, that first clear is difficult. So difficult, in fact, that I had to Flash away from chickens, which left me without it when Lee Sin found me in the river, which caused their jungle and top to snowball. Thankfully, we had a super-strong Vayne / Lulu bot lane that killed absolutely everyone. They carried so hard I somehow ended with an A+.

On the other side, I've played Nautilus jungle twice since the new patch and grabbed S+ ranks both times.

[Vogie]

Is it me, or do the rune changes just really screw over non tank junglers? The first clear is brutal now.

It depends on which you choose. It worked fine with me on Nocturne. I'm kind of at a loss of which to use, though. I can go all AD, then grab Legend: Alacrity (in either primary or secondary runes) to turn my kills into the sole source of AS.

I think that the certain nontank junglers will be leaning a bit on Fleet Footwork for a bit. That little heal will go a long way, especially at lower levels. Alternatively, using Inspiration as a secondary rune will give a massive boon for a jungler - built in potion mastery, and you could to go Jungle Item +3 pots, then get the 1st biscuit as you're finishing up that first clear

They have admitted that there are no/few good keystones for Support Junglers such as Nunu and Ivern, so there are going to be changes down the pipe.

It'll be interesting to see what Riot does with champs that had more specific rune/masteries, like Kayle required 20% cdr to actually hit her powerspikes.

You can still get 15% CDR for free between Transcendence and Cosmic Insight... but it'll take 10 minutes.

[Antonok]

It depends on which you choose. It worked fine with me on Nocturne. I'm kind of at a loss of which to use, though. I can go all AD, then grab Legend: Alacrity (in either primary or secondary runes) to turn my kills into the sole source of AS.

I think that the certain nontank junglers will be leaning a bit on Fleet Footwork for a bit. That little heal will go a long way, especially at lower levels. Alternatively, using Inspiration as a secondary rune will give a massive boon for a jungler - built in potion mastery, and you could to go Jungle Item +3 pots, then get the 1st biscuit as you're finishing up that first clear

They have admitted that there are no/few good keystones for Support Junglers such as Nunu and Ivern, so there are going to be changes down the pipe.

It's a bigger problem on AP champs. Starting with 0 AP just plain sucks. I've been running Fleet Footwork with Revitalize and Iron Skin, which at least lets me clear Blue, Gromp, and Wolves. Need to test starting red to see if that helps any.

[Vogie]

It's a bigger problem on AP champs. Starting with 0 AP just plain sucks. I've been running Fleet Footwork with Revitalize and Iron Skin, which at least lets me clear Blue, Gromp, and Wolves. Need to test starting red to see if that helps any.

I didn't think about that - May main AP jungler is Diana, and I haven't tried her with the new Runes yet. Whom do you use, so I can assist experimentation?

[9mm]

You can still get 15% CDR for free between Transcendence and Cosmic Insight... but it'll take 10 minutes.

40% is required for constant E uptime, which is why have 20% from runes and masteries was so important as it let her spike with Nashors. 15% doesn't cut it yet unless they lower E's CD, and even then you are going to have to go into Inspiration which outside of Insight has NOTHING Kayle would want.

Pretty sure her E CD is lower, given...

it isn't. Behold Kayle's changes for Preseason:
BASE HEALTH 574.24 ⇒ 586
HEALTH GROWTH STAT 93 ⇒ 105
BONUS ATTACK SPEED AT LEVEL 1 15%

If it wasn't for Kayles constant on/off relationship with the rework team I would fully expect an E cd buff soon, but Riot can never make up its mind on if/when Kayle should just be a ranged champ. Hell they just might decide she needs to have the Kog fight pattern, dangerous in windows of E's cd, useless while it's down.

I didn't think about that - May main AP jungler is Diana, and I haven't tried her with the new Runes yet. Whom do you use, so I can assist experimentation?

I haven't tried anything but I think Domination/Sorcery is the best fit for Diana though a case can be made for domination/precision, just can't decide if I want predator or dark harvest

[Ashen Lilies]

I play Eve and Kayn as my main non-tank junglers, who I never ran attack speed on anyway, so the lack of attack speed runes literally doesn't matter for me.

I haven't tried Shyvana yet, who would be one of my other main choices - I think she may need to end up switching to machete starts for the attack speed vs. monsters, but maybe not.

[Olinser]

It's a bigger problem on AP champs. Starting with 0 AP just plain sucks. I've been running Fleet Footwork with Revitalize and Iron Skin, which at least lets me clear Blue, Gromp, and Wolves. Need to test starting red to see if that helps any.

Yeah this was a MASSIVE nerf to basically all AP champions early game.

The bulk of the AD champions got increases to their base AD to make up for no +AD runes.

What did the AP's get? Small increase to their base health. I used to run with about +20 flat AP and around.... 10?ish? Magic Pen. That's a LOT of damage in the first few levels that you're now missing.

[Ashen Lilies]

4 free mpen on average.

And if you're taking sorcery or domination trees, you're not starting with zero AP, in fact depending on your runes you're probably starting with more AP than quints gave you before, are you high?

[Olinser]

4 free mpen on average.

And if you're taking sorcery or domination trees, you're not starting with zero AP, in fact depending on your runes you're probably starting with more AP than quints gave you before, are you high?

Apparently you are if you can't read. Armor yellows, AP blues, MPen reds and AP quints gave you 25 AP, 8 MPen and 9 armor (I went back and checked in one of the old calculators). You get significantly less than that even intentionally speccing into the trees for it, and all the AP got was crappy +health and occasionally some +armor for some.

Meanwhile AD got flat +8 AD buffs almost across the board (with a couple odd exceptions), even a lot of full tank champions that didn't typically take +AD runes or masteries to start with. AP got nothing but small +health increases so any AP assassin has taken a decent early game nerf.

[Ashen Lilies]

Almost everyone not named Forg1ven got 12 MR from blues, which has been completely lost in the transition. Compared to the lost 8 MPen from reds, that's a net +4 mpen gain in the early game for any magic dealing champion. Armor buffs on champions like Zed and Talon is pretty weak, if they're going against what's likely to be an AP matchup, while health is a damage-type agnostic increase in tankiness.

The real winner, of course, is Corki, who got the extra base AD that every other marksman got, while still benefiting from the global drop in MR. But a lot of mages and magic damage dealing champions (hi, Sona) got a lot more than just a surface level glance at "what free stats did I get in the patch notes" would indicate.

If we want a simple blow by blow of how everyone's stats work pre-and-post runes reforged:

Every champion in the game got their seals back. AD champions got their marks back. AP champions didn't get marks, but the corresponding loss of glyphs on everyone is actually a net gain compared to the value of their old marks. Quints have been largely replaced by rune path bonuses.

(Corki is busted because he got marks back twice.)

Reading is an important skill, critical thought is another.

[Anarion]

I'm honestly not sure the stats even matter that much right now. There's a bunch of new abilities that influence playstyle and priorities in a fight, some modifications to items, and a bunch of modifications to individual champs, plus it's a preseason. If one wants to do some math to try and guess that, like, Corki is going to do well, that's fine and perhaps worth testing him out to see if he's especially strong right now. But otherwise, by and large the point at the moment is to just play games and try stuff out as much as possible. We have a while for Riot to tweak numbers and fix especially broken combos of stuff.

[Ashen Lilies]

I actually do agree with you, I just wanted to point out that "stat changes nerfed AP champions" is not necessarily a correct conclusion to come to, as long as you're looking at the entire ecosystem of the stat changes and what they replaced (or what they didn't replace) instead of just doing mindless addition.

(FWIW, I think Sona is my patch 7.22 winner of choice, since she got triply buffed by Spellthief's buffs, the removal of MR from the botlane, and a number of great rune choices.)

[thracian]

Lack of ASpd on junglers really hurts early clear, lack of armor on midlaners REALLY hurts after first back against assassins. Busting out an early Dirk plus Lethality on dashes? Better build that early double cloth...

[Epinephrine_Syn]

I think the core is that mages feel terrible to play right now because Armor got readded to literally everyone but them, and the AD damage got scaled up to compensate, but he mages did not get any such benefit so they're disproportionately vulnerable.


I think a big part of the issue is that A, when you're a mid laning v an AD mid, you specced 9 Armor, not HP-by-level, and that B, they gave mages a by-level compensation rather than an early game compensation.

Which means while zed's hueing it up with base damage increases, +8 AD, and +5 Armor (and armor matters, minions and autos are big early even for mages), and +5 HP/level, you're sitting there with 24 HP and +3 MPen being sad.

If they gave mages 5 Armor, +8 HP/level, I think stuff'd be a lot smoother.

[Togath]

With the new update, I was thinking of playing again but... how hard is it to gain levels? Is it something like HotS where you can get one every 2-3 matches if you use first-of-the-day bonuses?
It's started me at 30, and I'm unsure if that means it'll be slowed down compared to newer players.

[Forum Explorer]

With the new update, I was thinking of playing again but... how hard is it to gain levels? Is it something like HotS where you can get one every 2-3 matches if you use first-of-the-day bonuses?
It's started me at 30, and I'm unsure if that means it'll be slowed down compared to newer players.

I don't know how much of a difference the first of the day bonuses make, but I haven't leveled up yet after 5 games.

[Qwertystop]

I just got a FWOTD at level 31 and it gave me over a thousand XP (over a third of a level). So yeah, your estimate seems about right. Some of that is the XP boost I seem to have gotten free, though - will probably slow down as I gain more levels and once the boost runs out.

OTOH, levels here are just your source of essence and some other loot, so if you've got most of the champions you want to play, they don't really matter all that much. Personally, I've got that and then some; I've got all the champions who cost less essence than a random-champ-unlock-token, so now I'm just spending on those unless I get a shard for something I particularly want.

[Togath]

You DO earn cosmetic items for most levelups now though, right?