Ranged Ranger Build

[casb1965]

The character's slowly forming

L1 Ranger 1
L2 Ranger 2
L3 Fighter 1
L4 WF Barbarian 1 - +1 BAB , +1 attack and +4 Str for extra damage and +2 AC dodge bonus
L5 ??
L6 Fighter 2 - +1 BAB Woodland Archer, Extra Rage

Warblade at L5?

[Nifft]

Barbarian 2 gets you Uncanny Dodge.

Ranger 3 gets you Endurance.

Fighter 3 gets you nothing -- never take this level.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Warblade slots in pretty nicely at 5th, yeah, but you might also wait until 7th. Generally, you'll want to dip initiator classes at odd levels, due to how their multiclassing works. Warblade at 5th means you can pick 2nd level maneuvers, but delaying another two levels lets you load up on 3rds.

[casb1965]

Warblade slots in pretty nicely at 5th, yeah, but you might also wait until 7th. Generally, you'll want to dip initiator classes at odd levels, due to how their multiclassing works. Warblade at 5th means you can pick 2nd level maneuvers, but delaying another two levels lets you load up on 3rds.

So two levels of Warblade plus 5 levels of other classes gives me an Initiator level of 2 + (5/2) = 5?

[Nifft]

So two levels of Warblade plus 5 levels of other classes gives me an Initiator level of 2 + (5/2) = 5?

5/2 = 2.5 -> round down because D&D -> 2

2 + 2 = 4

[Grod_The_Giant]

So two levels of Warblade plus 5 levels of other classes gives me an Initiator level of 2 + (5/2) = 5?

Each level of another class gives you 1/2 IL. So taking Warblade at 5th would give you an IL of (4/2+1)=3. Taking it at 7th would... not work, actually, my bad-- that would only be (6/2+1)=4.

So yeah, grab Warblade at 5th. I suggest nabbing Wall of Blades (wear a pair of gauntlets while you shoot, or pay a little more for an Elvencraft Bow (RotW) so you have a melee weapon available), Claw at the Moon or Rabid Wolf Strike (prereq), and take Blood in the Water as your stance. That'll net you a good defensive option, an offensive boost that goes well with attack-spamming, and one spare maneuver... Mountain Hammer can be useful for breaking stuff out of a fight, Sudden Leap is always a solid choice, and Moment of Perfect Mind can great if you're willing to invest in Concentration.

[casb1965]

Looking at Warblade vs Cleric, how do the bonuses from Warblade maneuvers and stances compare to the +3 AB/AC from Law domain and the bonus from Knowledge domain?

[Eldariel]

Looking at Warblade vs Cleric, how do the bonuses from Warblade maneuvers and stances compare to the +3 AB/AC from Law domain and the bonus from Knowledge domain?

Hard to compare. Most of the WB bonuses are indirect; you can ensure you make saves, you can get out of melee before you attack, etc. Warblade crucially adds up on top of more Warblade for higher IL to get higher level maneuvers so Warblade is something you'd want to focus on if you go that route since most of the good offensive archery stuff is higher up. Meanwhile, Cleric adds large amounts of AB off the bat and a lot of utility. You yourself will have to weight the options against one another: which you find more important for your character? Utility, positioning and "leadership" stuff from Warblade, or AB, utility spells and Wand use from Cleric.

[casb1965]

With regard to the 1 level dip in to Barbarian taking the Whirling Frenzy ACF can I also take the Spirit Totem ACF? One replaces rage the other fast movement but can they be used together?

If so, would the Eagle totem (+4 spot and search) or Fox (+4 Hide and Move silently) work best as both are advantageous for a Ranger who will stay back and shoot.

[Eldariel]

With regard to the 1 level dip in to Barbarian taking the Whirling Frenzy ACF can I also take the Spirit Totem ACF? One replaces rage the other fast movement but can they be used together?

If so, would the Eagle totem (+4 spot and search) or Fox (+4 Hide and Move silently) work best as both are advantageous for a Ranger who will stay back and shoot.

Sure you can. Depends on your focus; either is fine.

[DEMON]

With regard to the 1 level dip in to Barbarian taking the Whirling Frenzy ACF can I also take the Spirit Totem ACF? One replaces rage the other fast movement but can they be used together?

If so, would the Eagle totem (+4 spot and search) or Fox (+4 Hide and Move silently) work best as both are advantageous for a Ranger who will stay back and shoot.

Yes, you can take more ACFs/Sub Levels, as long as they do not replace the same ability.

As to which is better, depends on your preferences. But since hide and move silently are opposed checks and you don't have those skills as class skills for most of your classes, I'd myself go for the spot & search combo.

You might also check out the Ape Totem Barbarian ACF, which takes away your fast movement and grants you a climb speed at 1st level.

[Darrin]

With regard to the 1 level dip in to Barbarian taking the Whirling Frenzy ACF can I also take the Spirit Totem ACF? One replaces rage the other fast movement but can they be used together?

If so, would the Eagle totem (+4 spot and search) or Fox (+4 Hide and Move silently) work best as both are advantageous for a Ranger who will stay back and shoot.

Yes. You can also stack on either Wolf Totem or the Horse Totem from UA, as those ACFs trade away most of the Barbarian class abilities *except* Rage and Fast Movement. Hence, Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 is a popular dip for melee builds after Spirit Lion Totem because you can pick up Improved Trip as a bonus feat without taking Combat Expertise (which is a stupid prereq anyway). This doesn't really help an archery-focused build, but then again: hey, bonus feat is a bonus feat. (Sometimes you need to trade away or swap a bonus feat, such as with Dragonborn of Bahamut or the Dark Chaos Shuffle.)

As far as Law Devotion vs. Warblade maneuvers... my concern there is you don't get a lot of daily uses out of Law Devotion, so you run the risk of running out of them. Warblade maneuvers can be used for every encounter, and multiple times per encounter so long as you're able to refresh them.

Whether to take Warblade at ECL 5 or wait... Hmmm. Tough call. There are some good counters available at ECL 5, notably Moment of Perfect Mind and Wall of Blades. I'd probably grab Hunter's Sense (for detecting invisible creatures) and then Sudden Leap (swift action movement). If you wait until ECL 9... then you can grab Iron Heart Surge (gets rid of adverse conditions) and White Raven Tactics (gives another turn to an ally). But if that was your only dip into Warblade, you wouldn't be able to pick up Moment of Perfect Mind or Sudden Leap as well. However, Warblade slots into 5th pretty well, so I think I'd recommend that over your other options. You can at least get Iron Heart Surge (using Wall of Blades as the prereq) from a Novice Iron Heart Vest (3000 GP). Getting White Raven Tactics later would be a little more involved.

[DEMON]

Whether to take Warblade at ECL 5 or wait... Hmmm. Tough call. There are some good counters available at ECL 5, notably Moment of Perfect Mind and Wall of Blades. I'd probably grab Hunter's Sense (for detecting invisible creatures) and then Sudden Leap (swift action movement). If you wait until ECL 9... then you can grab Iron Heart Surge (gets rid of adverse conditions) and White Raven Tactics (gives another turn to an ally). But if that was your only dip into Warblade, you wouldn't be able to pick up Moment of Perfect Mind or Sudden Leap as well. However, Warblade slots into 5th pretty well, so I think I'd recommend that over your other options. You can at least get Iron Heart Surge (using Wall of Blades as the prereq) from a Novice Iron Heart Vest (3000 GP). Getting White Raven Tactics later would be a little more involved.

A Warblade dip at 7th would only give you an IL of 4, so no 3rd level maneuvers.

[Darrin]

A Warblade dip at 7th would only give you an IL of 4, so no 3rd level maneuvers.

Fixed. Thanks!

[Eldariel]

Fixed. Thanks!

However, if you take straight Warblade 5-7, you do indeed hit IL5 for 3rd level maneuvers by level 7. Indeed, Warblade [or other Initiator] 14/X 6 is the highest you can afford if you still want to get Time Stands Still by level 20. Of course, if you don't look at the endgame, there's a great number of options available.

[DEMON]

Indeed, Warblade [or other Initiator] 14/X 6 is the highest you can afford if you still want to get Time Stands Still by level 20.

While it was stated by the OP that he's not looking at high levels, for completeness sake, we can build on what we have already with something like...

Ranger 2 / Fighter 1 (the OP is already at this point in the build; Hit-and-Run tactics ACF suggested) / Barbarian 1 (whirling frenzy and possibly other ACFs) / Warblade 1 (2nd level maneuvers) / Fighter +1 (Woodland Archer and Extra Rage) / Cleric 1 (Cloistered ACF: Knowledge, Law and one other domain) / Warblade +13 (eventually 9th level maneuvers) for a lovely frankenbuild of Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 / Barbie 1 / Cleric 1 / Warblade 14.

Even disregarding the high level part, the first 7 levels (Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Warblade 1 / Cleric 1) work perfectly fine and offer something interesting at every step.

[casb1965]

While it was stated by the OP that he's not looking at high levels, for completeness sake, we can build on what we have already with something like...

Ranger 2 / Fighter 1 (the OP is already at this point in the build; Hit-and-Run tactics ACF suggested) / Barbarian 1 (whirling frenzy and possibly other ACFs) / Warblade 1 (2nd level maneuvers) / Fighter +1 (Woodland Archer and Extra Rage) / Cleric 1 (Cloistered ACF: Knowledge, Law and one other domain) / Warblade +13 (eventually 9th level maneuvers) for a lovely frankenbuild of Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 / Barbie 1 / Cleric 1 / Warblade 14.

Even disregarding the high level part, the first 7 levels (Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 1 / Warblade 1 / Cleric 1) work perfectly fine and offer something interesting at every step.

It's definitely a Frankenbuild. One thought is at Fighter 2 we'd looked at Woodland Archer and Extra Rage well Extra Rage won't be available if I go Whirling Frenzy ACF as I lose Rage, what would be a suitable feat to add instead?

[DEMON]

It's definitely a Frankenbuild. One thought is at Fighter 2 we'd looked at Woodland Archer and Extra Rage well Extra Rage won't be available if I go Whirling Frenzy ACF as I lose Rage, what would be a suitable feat to add instead?

Most DMs allow you to use Extra Rage to get additional uses of Whirling Frenzy, since it's a rage variant.

Also the Extra Rage feat from CW literally gives you 2 extra uses of

rage or frenzy

.

[casb1965]

Most DMs allow you to use Extra Rage to get additional uses of Whirling Frenzy, since it's a rage variant.

Also the Extra Rage feat from CW literally gives you 2 extra uses of .

Excellent, that I think settles my character, certainly for the next few levels.