Ranger15th Lvl optimization 3.5

[Searos89]

Hi, im new here and my ranger i feel i could do more with my bow here is the stats,

+2 Keen Holy Flame Burst Lightning Burst Composite Longbow
1d8 +2d6 Holy +1d6 Fire +1d6 Lightning (Crit Range 19-20 x3)
Critical 3d8 +2d10 Fire +2d10 Lighting +2d6 Holy
+18 to 1st Attack +14 to 2nd Attack
+4 to Damage and +2 to Attack Rolls

If you need more I can post my Character sheet If needed

[ATHATH]

Ahem: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forum...-D-3e-3-5e-d20

How optimized is your party? What are they playing (not just their classes, but what roles they are trying to fill as well)?

[DEMON]

How optimized is your party? What are they playing (not just their classes, but what roles they are trying to fill as well)?

And most importantly - What books are allowed?

[Eladrinblade]

You can enchant arrows, too.

+5 bow, holy
+1 arrows, flaming/shocking burst

Can't have keen on a bow, though. Only slashing weapons.

[Eldariel]

Well yes, you can do much more. By the looks of it, this is a Core (PHB, DMG, MM) character but even then. The weapon could be better designed but I'm certain much more could definitely be done with the character build too.

But weapon... First of all, Burst abilities are never as good as flat damage abilities in 3.5 (aside from Kaorti Resin). It's simple math, even if every crit were confirmed you'd need at least 12-20/x2 or equivalent multipliers for Burst to average more damage than two normal abilities. Same with Keen - it's only worthwhile on 18-20 weapons.

Second, bows have a number of great bow-only abilities. Seeking is a near must; you can use all sorts of Concealment items starting from Eversmoking Bottle combined with auxiliary senses/listen/whatever to detect the enemies' square and suffer no miss chance while they operate at -50% miss chance and inability to use targeted spells.

Third, you definitely want either Brilliant Energy bow or arrows (for the bow, turn it off when fighting the non-living). This allows ignoring armor and all that but more importantly it MAKES YOUR ARROWS PASS THROUGH NON-LIVING MATTER. Including almost all walls. So you can shoot through doors, walls, etc. as long as you have means to detect your enemies. These include e.g. party arcanist with Arcane Sight in many cases (against enemies with magic items as treasure/in use), simply sufficiently high Listen, or Tremorsense summon (Small Earth Elemental from Summon Nature's Ally II [SNAII] can Earth Glide to check other rooms, Thoqqua from SNAIII is a fast burrower with Tremorsense to detect targets through walls without going there, Minor Xorn from SNAIV has both, Earth Glide and Tremorsense).

Finally, arrows. As said, they can be separatey enchanted and you get 50 arrows for the price of one weapon. Sadly the base bonus doesn't stack and yet you're forced to make them +1 before any other abilities as per magic weapon rules. The good part? You can make various Bane arrows quite cheap and make arrowheads of various materials (Silver, Cold Iron, Adamantine). Since the bow is holy, Silver Evil Outsider bane works great against Devils and Cold Iron against Demons. Dragonbane is obvious and Undead/Monstrous Humanoid/Aberration/Giant/Humanoid (Elf/Human) Bane Arrows are sure to come in handy. Fey, Elementals, Plants, other Outsider/Humanoid types likely depends on the campaign. As a spellcaster, you can take the feat Craft Magic Arms and Armor to make them yourself as you go (Bane only requires Summon Monster I, which costs mere 25gp as a Scroll and can be gotten for free from party Cleric or Wizard - or you could ask the DM to substitute Summon Nature's Ally I).

In short:
+1 Holy Composite Longbow of Seeking (Frost, Electric and Flaming are also strong, strongly consider Brilliant Energy if you can afford it)

+1 Bane Arrows for various types you could plausibly encounter. Also +1 Brilliant Energy Arrows unless you get a Brilliant Energy Bow.

Ask a full caster (Cleric or Wizard) for Greater Magic Weapon on your bow each day (lasts hours/level). You can buy them a Pearl of Power III in return. You could also get an Orange Prism Ioun Stone into the party giving them +1 caster level enabling them to cast these buffs at caster level 16. You yourself could use it to cast stuff at caster level 8, which can be kinda nice at times, though it's a bit expensive for most of the benefits a Ranger gets. If you don't have access to a full caster, getting a Wand of Greater Magic Weapon at as high a caster level as possible is generally more economical than buying high enhancement weapons.

A level 15 Wizard could also doublecast Polymorph Any Object on you to turbocharge your physical stats.

If this is not a Core only game, consider Blood Seeking (Complete Warrior), Collision (Expanded Psionics Handbook), Force (Magic Item Compendium) and similars. +1 Phasing Arrows (Dragon Magazine) are an interesting alternative or addition to Brilliant Energy.

[Rebel7284]

+2 is generally a waste. You want +1 with the option to have a part Spellcaster cast greater magic weapon on it.

Splitting is by far the best ability for bows if you have access to it.

[Searos89]

1. Eldariel thank you for the insight it helps a lot.
2. we are in the forgotten realms so almost every book in 3.5 is available for use. though there are exceptions, i have to ask my dm cuz i cant remember for the life of me.
3.We have a Tank (Human Fighter/Barb i think), Healer (Genasi Cleric), Rogue (Gnome Halfling thief dude thing),and me the Ranger (Half-Elf Kinda like legolas, its what im going for anyway lol.)
4. Why is +2 a waste? could you elaborate a little more please? also when i read about splitting it didn't seem good, could you possibly give me a run down on how its used properly thanx.

Lastly, I must thank all of you for your time, when my tank told me about this site i was sure i could get the assistance I needed. I eagerly await your replies

[cullynthedwarf]

Magical Ammo is generally a waste because it has a 50% chance to break after use. there are exceptions to this as with the bane arrows mentioned above since have dozens of bows would be impractical.

with magical ammo sooner or later your going to run out while a bow never will

[Rebel7284]

Oh wow, you're really low on magic ability for such a high level. May I suggest that you take the feat Sword of the Arcane Order so that you can at least have access to little bit of utility wizard spells?

As for why splitting is good... well it doubles the number of attacks you make, thus doubling your damage and the effect of most other special abilities. For example, say you are attacking with Rapid Shot, you normally get 4 attacks. With a splitting bow, each arrow splits into two arrows, giving you 8 attacks.

+2 is a waste because, unlike in 3.0, it doesn't allow you to overcome any more damage reduction, all it gives you is +1 attack and +1 damage. The abilities you can put on your bow can make a lot more impact than this. The higher enchanted the bow is, the more expensive the extra +1 attack and +1 damage becomes.
For example: At level 15, almost every creature has spell-like abilities, so Mage Bane, for the same +1 cost, will give you +2 attack and +2d6 damage to 60%-80% of your enemies, almost certainly including the most dangerous ones.
Or look at Holy which I consider fair, but not great for +2 equivalent (so normally +2 Attack, +2 damage), Holy instead gives you +0 attack, +7 damage and a useful ability to overcome some DR.
This is before looking at things like Greater Wounding which deals 2 Constitution damage per hit for a +4 cost (Located in Monster Manual 2 3.5 Update.)

In addition, boosting the weapons base enhancement bonus usually only takes a single third level spell Greater Magic Weapon and lasts hours/level (likely the whole day), while it's much more difficult to add abilities with magic. Looking at your party composition, it doesn't look like anyone knows Greater Magic Weapon, sadly. Even without Greater Magic Weapon, actual weapon abilities are still better.

Your weapon in the first post, if I am counting correctly, is a +9 Equivalent which deals some nice (but often resisted) elemental damage 10% of the time.

But you can for example, have a bow with Base +1, Seeking(+1), Splitting (+3), Greater Wounding (+4) and give up some elemental damage (which again is often resisted anyway) for double the number of shots, which apply a debilitating amount of ability damage to anyone who is not immune. Seeking allows you to shoot without miss chance at pretty much anything as long as you know the square to shoot at.

[Eldariel]

All books? Delicious! Splitting [Champions of Ruin] is a must! It doubles your attacks; now you'd normally have Rapid Shot for +13/+13/+7/+3 (without accounting for any bonuses - probably you're realistically looking at +25/+25/+20/+15 or something), Splitting makes that +13/+13/+13/+13/+7/+7/+3/+3 and next level you'll have one more pair of attacks. All of those do your normal damage. So it essentially doubles your damage. I'd say +1 Splitting Force Collision (total +8) is the default go-to; works vs. all creature types, ignores DR and presumably Force [Magic Item Compendium] arrows aren't bothered by weather conditions. Collision is flat damage, works vs. everything and cares about no resistances. Then you can get +1 Brilliant Energy arrows for when you need to shoot through walls, or +1 Bane arrows for various creature types. Blood Seeking [Complete Warrior] is another way to ignore cover and fire at enemies in any sort of open environment, but it can't hit enemies in completely enclosed rooms. You could add it as a base enhancement - Seeking + Blood Seeking completely negates all cover and concealment (though Blood Seeking only works vs. living enemies, big drawback).

Base enhancements (+1, +2, +3, +4, +5) are actually fairly good but Greater Magic Weapon (4th level Cleric, 3rd level Wizard spell in PHB) supplies you with all the enhancements you could ever want. Just ask your Genasi Cleric for GMW on your Bow every day and you'll have a +3-+4 bow (+3 at Caster Level 12, +4 at Caster Level 16) in addition to all the abilities. Buy her a Pearl of Power IV for her trouble so she can recover the spell slot used (16k is nothing). Similar story with magic armor; just get +1 Armor with abilities and ask the Cleric for Magic Vestment. You could do this with Animated Shield too. While at it, the Cleric can also buff you 7 ways to heaven while still having slots left to annihilate encounter after encounter.

Oh, and you can make a bow of any Strength modifier so the more Strength you have, the more damage bonus you can get on each arrow. Pump your strength!


Now then, let's talk about you. You're a Ranger so you have Ranger spells. In Core, these are mostly utility and scouting but with all sources? Oh boy, you're in for a treat! All the important Ranger-spells are in Spell Compendium, Champions of Ruin or Player's Handbook II. Quick guide:
1st level spells
Arrowmind [SC]: Naturally swift action, your attacks with bow don't provoke AoOs and you threaten area and can take AoOs with your bow. Very useful in cramped quarters! Always prepare.
Guided Shot [SC]: Naturally swift action. Ignore range penalties. Most of the other penalties you already ignore naturally thanks to your bow, but very useful if you need to fire 1000' away. Prepare one.
Hunter's Mercy [SC]: Your next attack is automatically a critical hit. Great if you can quicken it, great if you want to snipe. A good preparation round spell.
Woodwisp Arrow [CoR]: Naturally swift action. Make your arrow pass through wood. If you fight in woods a lot, useful unless you have Blood Seeking.

2nd level spells
Brilliant Energy Arrow [CoR]: Naturally swift action, makes an arrow Brilliant Energy! Yeah, this just gives you the ability to shoot through walls and all that.
Hunter's Eye [PHBII]: Naturally swift action. Gain Sneak Attack equal to your caster level/3. If you have means to buff your caster level (e.g. Practiced Spellcaster, Beads of Karma, Shooting Star Ranger ACFs [Champions of Valor]), very strong. If it only grants you 2d6 though, it isn't all that. Still, if you catch enemies by surprise and are in Sneak Attack range, getting 2d6 on all your 8 attacks is not bad.
Spellslayer Arrow [CoR]: Swift action, makes your arrow do 1d4 extra damage for each buff on your enemy. If you face enemies with lots of buffs, this can hurt them a lot.
Swift Haste [SC]: If you don't have another source of Haste (you should get Boots of Speed [DMG]), this is a way to get an extra attack (two with Splitting) and +1 on all your attacks.

3rd level spells
Arrow Storm [SC]: Full round action, allows you to make one bow attack against every target in range (two with Splitting)! Wonderful when facing hordes, though often your normal full attack amounts to more (and can be focused on a single target to remove enemy power faster).
Arrowsplit [CoR]: Swift action. Makes one arrow split into 1d4+1 arrows. Basically 1d4 extra attacks, god forbid you have e.g. Lesser Rod of Empower Spell to make it (1d4+1)x1.5 extra attacks. If you can chain it to all your arrows you're gonna fire, the numbers get ridiculous...
Darkflame Arrow [CoR]: Makes an arrow do 2d6 extra damage this round and 2 following rounds. Essentially 6d6 damage overall (if enemy survives that long) and doubled with Splitting. Great!
Find the Gap [SC]: Rounds per level, your first attack is a touch attack. Quite useful vs. tough to hit enemies though generally you should be fine without it.


There's more but that's off the top of my head. Enjoy! Oh, and do post your build! You can do a lot with it.

[DEMON]

Hunter's Mercy [SC]: Naturally swift action. Your next attack is automatically a critical hit. Great if you can quicken it, great if you want to snipe. A good preparation round spell.

Not sure I got the first part right, but just to avoid confusion: Hunter's Mercy is a standard action spell, which you seem to acknowledge in your second sentence.

[Eldariel]

Not sure I got the first part right, but just to avoid confusion: Hunter's Mercy is a standard action spell, which you seem to acknowledge in your second sentence.

Oops, added that tag for Hunter's Mercy instead of Guided Shot. My bad, I have corrected the listing.

[ATHATH]

Can you retroactively apply variants, substitution levels, and/or alternate class features (ACFs) to your Ranger?

Are there any Ranger class abilities that you don't like or don't use very much?

What's your current Animal Companion?

[Searos89]

I wanna thank all of you guys, it was a big help. I have been busy setting up a campaign for undermountain, and i will post about it soon.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Consider including three or four levels of the Scout class in Complete Adventurer, with the feat Swift Hunter in Complete Scoundrel, which gets you quite a bit of skirmish damage. Combine that with Greater Manyshot so you can apply skirmish damage to all your shots in a standard action. That way you can move and then use Greater Manyshot, gaining +4 AC and +4d6 damage from skirmish, firing three arrows (four at +16 BAB) each of which adds all your damage bonuses including skirmish damage. Skirmish doesn't normally apply against undead, constructs, elementals, or plants, but it does apply to any of those you have as a favored enemy with Swift Hunter. Scout also gets you Trapfinding so you can help the party out by finding and disabling all the traps.

Also consider taking the feat Woodland Archer in Races of the Wild.

For your bow, consider including Magebane in Complete Arcane, it costs a +1 and gets the benefits of the Bane property when attacking anything that's capable of casting arcane spells or using spell-like abilities that appear on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. This will work against nearly every opponent you encounter at this level.

I'd also consider Seeking on your bow, since you may run into a lot of Blur/Displacement effects, Invisibility, cloud/fog/darkness effects, etc. and Improved Precise Shot doesn't negate the 50% miss chance for total concealment/invisibility.

Make your bow an Elvencraft weapon from Races of the Wild, a longbow will also count as a quarterstaff so you'll still threaten in melee, you wouldn't want to make melee attacks but you can make attacks of opportunity. You can also make each quarterstaff end +1 Defending and get a Cleric or Wizard in the party to put Greater Magic Weapon on both ends to put those bonuses toward your AC. You'll need to buy Masterwork three times instead of just once, but you should also be able to put three wand chambers from Dungeonscape in that. Put wands of swift-action spells in those spots, and you'll be able to activate them as long as you're holding the bow. The Rules Compendium says any spell trigger or spell completion item takes the same action to activate as the spell being used.

Consider taking Hidden Talent from the Expanded Psionics Handbook p67 to pick Chameleon, this should allow you to use a Dorje (psionic wand) of that power. Get a Dorje of Chameleon and a Wand of Camouflage, each lasts ten minutes and each adds +10 to your Hide checks, they're different types of bonuses so they'll stack. This gives you +20 to Hide for ten minutes and 1st level wands only cost 15 gp per charge. Having Hidden Talent also allows you to gain and use a psionic focus, as long as you haven't run yourself out of power points for the day. This can power feats like Speed of Thought and Up the Walls for added mobility, though at your current level you should be able to fly but those are still useful if you use wings and you're in a narrow corridor.

[DarkSoul]

Ask your DM if the Raptor Arrows (Magic Item Compendium p. 56) can be relics of Mielikki since she's the closest thing to Ehlonna in the Realms. If that doesn't work, then either Solonor Thelandira or Shevarash would be gods likely to have such relics. Take the True Believer feat to activate them, and enchant them from there. After that, get a Bow of the Wintermoon (Magic Item Compendium p. 48) but don't worry about activating its relic power. You just want it because it allows you to add your full strength modifer to your damage rolls, even if it changes. Enchant it as a splitting force collision bow, as Eldariel said.

[Lexotan]

Follow Eldariel's instructions!

I will make only a few additions: An bow with the Force enchantment is also very useful for attacking ethereal creatures, remember that.

If you want an alternative to your weapon, turn it into a Bone Bow (Frostburn) +1, Force (MiC), Splitting (CR), Fierce (AEG) can bring a very high flat damage. In addition, a level in Exotic Weapon Master can grant you the ability not to generate attacks of opportunity if you shoot within the threat area of ​​an enemy.
Edit: AEG = Arms and Equipment Guide.

Having some Aurial Saphire (Complete Champion) enabled you to accelerate a Wind Wall to prevent ranged attacks from other archers.

In addition, I also indicate a secondary weapon for fighting against many opponents, if it is common. Exit Wound and Exlposive enchantments, both in Complete Warrior, if used with the Arrow Storm spell can cause an amount of damage difficult to calculate.