Warhammer 2 Total War

[Sinewmire]

Started a new campaign as Alvdnov Renastic Vlad von Castein. Is it worth trying to confederate Mannfred? I'd love having him on my team, but I could really do with taking my rightful Capital city back.

[Grim Portent]

Started a new campaign as Alvdnov Renastic Vlad von Castein. Is it worth trying to confederate Mannfred? I'd love having him on my team, but I could really do with taking my rightful Capital city back.

I'd say it's worth confederating. Drakenhof is good, but Mannfred is well worth getting if you can. He's nearly as good a beatstick as Vlad and a much better character sniper. The potential to snag Kemmler and Ghorst is also a bonus.

Vlad can easily storm Stirland or Averheim with a stack of skeletons and get you set up early, or you can rush Templehof and take full control of W. Sylvania.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

On the flipside, is it worth confederating with Vlad if you're Manfred? I understand Vlad and Isabella's usefulness, though at the same time it makes little sense as they're still obviously mad that Manfred backstabbed them.

[Grim Portent]

Vlad is really good as an infantry and siege specialist, I always get him when possible. It's not hard to do so and his town isn't worth conquering anyway.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Vlad is really good as an infantry and siege specialist, I always get him when possible. It's not hard to do so and his town isn't worth conquering anyway.

Is there an in-character reason for WHY Vlad and Isabella would work for the upstart traitor, Mannfred?

[Grim Portent]

Is there an in-character reason for WHY Vlad and Isabella would work for the upstart traitor, Mannfred?

Well Mannfred never actually betrayed them, none of their servants did while they were alive. Prior to V and I dying the Von Carsteins more or less got along because of how loyal they were to their leaders out of a combination of familial love, respect and fear.

Vlad died after the Empire hired a master thief to steal his ring and an Elector Count tackled him and dived off a city wall (at Averheim as I recall) onto some wooden palisade spikes, killing them both. Isabella then decided to walk into the rising sun rather than live without Vlad.

After that the most powerful of Vlad's servants squabbled over leadership, with Konrad his insane attack dog child becoming the new Vampire Count of Sylvania after murdering his competition while Mannfred stepped back and went off to study magic and make bargains only returning after Konrad got betrayed and abandoned by his necromancers before a battle and wound up dead.

Apart from End Times Mannfred never had to deal with a restored Vlad and at the time both were under a restored Nagash anway, but he did resent Vlad more or less naturally becoming leader of the Sylvanian vampires again. How Vlad felt about him I am unsure.



For TW:WH2 purposes Vlad and Isabella have basically just stepped back up from being dust and moved into Sylvania again with minimal plot involved. How Vlad would have actually reacted to coming back after hundreds of years dead and finding one of his favoured sons as a more powerful mage now ruling an even more decrepit Sylvania is pretty up in the air. How Mannfred would respond to Vlad coming back is also pretty up in the air. Both naturally want to be top dog, but to an extent vampires have a natural instinct for heirarchy and these two at the least respected each other prior to Vlad's death. I'd be inclined to think Mannfred would step aside for Vlad, at least in the short term, because Vlad is his sire and very charismatic and powerful, his return would upset all of Mannfred's powerbase and make swearing fealty a pragmatic move if nothing else.

Then of course you have to add in that Archaon is coming, something that both would probably have an inkling of quite early and would consider something more important than any personal rivalry.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm confused. I was under the impression that the Empire hired that master thief because Mannfred TOLD them the ring needed to be stolen to defeat Vlad because Mannfred had been plotting against Vlad from day one.

[Grim Portent]

I'm confused. I was under the impression that the Empire hired that master thief because Mannfred TOLD them the ring needed to be stolen to defeat Vlad because Mannfred had been plotting against Vlad from day one.

I don't recall that being in my VCs codex, but it might have been in a supplementary bit of stuff or a different edition's codex. It would make sense I guess. Mannfred was one of Sylvania's scheming nobles before being turned, I just assumed he was loyal like Konrad.

It would require Vlad to find out about it before he'd be mad at Mannfred rather than the Empire though, and Mannfred is a good liar.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I see! Thank you for the clarification!

[Grim Portent]

I think ultimately if Vlad came back without Nagash or similar ruling the roost Mannfred's first thoughts would be to quietly kill him, then he'd hesitate because Vlad was a better fighter than him and would easily gather a lot of support and kill Mannfred if things didn't go as Mannfred planned, then he'd either run away to wait and see what happens from a safe distance or he'd hand over the reins to Vlad and try to work things out from there.

Vlad was a statesman and a master warrior and general, Mannfred is a scheming wizard first and foremost, direct confrontation isn't his thing. When Konrad was fighting with their brothers over who got to replace Vlad Mannfred chose to go away rather than fight Konrad because he had good reason to think he'd fail in that confrontation.

[Sinewmire]

I don't recall that being in my VCs codex, but it might have been in a supplementary bit of stuff or a different edition's codex. It would make sense I guess. Mannfred was one of Sylvania's scheming nobles before being turned, I just assumed he was loyal like Konrad.

It would require Vlad to find out about it before he'd be mad at Mannfred rather than the Empire though, and Mannfred is a good liar.

It's true! See the first Von Carstein novel. Nobody ever asked what happened to thief afterwards, or how the ring came to be in the hands of the Vampires.

Or how Mannfred got it afterwards.

The book is pretty decent actually - Vlad is just *awesome* in it.

[Olinser]

It's true! See the first Von Carstein novel. Nobody ever asked what happened to thief afterwards, or how the ring came to be in the hands of the Vampires.

Or how Mannfred got it afterwards.

The book is pretty decent actually - Vlad is just *awesome* in it.

One of the later books covered it. If I recall correctly the church removed his tongue and arms and kept the ring. Mannfred was able to locate the thief and eventually the ring because the church was too stupid and greedy to destroy it.

[Spacewolf]

So after crushing everyone with no effort at all in my lizardmen game I tried out chaos to see if they'd changed it much since the first game. I made it to I think turn 10-15 before I was getting hit by endless full stacks of Vargs, Longboat Norse and Kislev who were hunting me from outside their own territories. So basically the same as ever.

[Grim Portent]

After a long and drawn out war the Pleasure Cult rules Ulthuan. I remain opposed by the nearby beastmen, the Norscans north of Naggarond and the Lizardmen. As yet the Old World factions and I have minimal contact, but Athel Loren beckons to me.

After securing Ulthuan I sent a Black Ark south to find Teclis and forge an alliance, the Shrine of Asuryan made it easy to ally with him. Unfortunately he's made no progress against his neighbours in the past 100 turns.

Malekith is struggling against the Norscans and Beastmen, but still refuses to confederate, apparently on the strength of Malekith alone. When he's wounded I can confederate easily, but then I don't get him as a lord.

My current goals are to help Teclis break his way Northward to help me against the Lizardmen, claim the Northern wastelands to bolster my economy and get ready to attack the Old World.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Just so all are aware, there's a Free-LC that was released today along with the Tomb Kings! Tretch Craventail has been revealed as the Skaven's newest Legendary Lord, leading Clan Rictus in Naggaroth.

[Spacewolf]

Just so all are aware, there's a Free-LC that was released today along with the Tomb Kings! Tretch Craventail has been revealed as the Skaven's newest Legendary Lord, leading Clan Rictus in Naggaroth.

Hmm Skaven vs norse would be pretty fun considering they're both pretty soft. I think my games is having some sort of update issue though I'm in the 1.2.0V build is there a more recent one than that?

[Grim Portent]

Giving Arkhan a quick test run, actually slightly dissapointed by how limited his VC unit options are, even if I understand why they're so limited I think it would have been better to give him some units that could actually change how his armies fight rather than ones with such a strong overlap with normal TKs units. Bats and dire wolves don't really do anything TKs don't already do, and ghouls are really just a sidegrade from skeletons. Hexwraiths are a neat thing to have and might work well as part of a cavalry/chariot army once I get properly going.

Nehekaran mechanics seem interesting but also potentially really frustrating where the economy is concerned. Also scorpions don't have siege attacker, which is a pretty major irritant for me since they're monsters and I like my 0 turn sieges. The inability to easily ressurect dead combatants is going to make things odd compared to VCs, and might be part of why I'm not super into this run so far. TKs don't have the same immortal wall of meat and bone clawing down the living feel that I like. Still they have archers and siege weapons, two things which the VCs lack, so maybe I'll get more into them as time passes.

EDIT: I almost feel Arkhan would work better as a VCs army with a lot of Nehekharan mechanics and a unit roster that's a mix of the two, because the more independant TKs castes hate him and necromancers and vampires covet his power and knowledge, so him having VCs heroes would make far more sense to me than him having TKs heroes, or at least necromancers instead of liche priests, and his knowledge of the magics of Nagash would make him more likely to draw the same sorts of minions as a Vampire would. Really he just seems to lack Necromancy in general for the acolyte of the Great Necromancer.

[Blackhawk748]

Just so all are aware, there's a Free-LC that was released today along with the Tomb Kings! Tretch Craventail has been revealed as the Skaven's newest Legendary Lord, leading Clan Rictus in Naggaroth.

Intriguing, how difficult is he labeled as?

[Forum Explorer]

Just so all are aware, there's a Free-LC that was released today along with the Tomb Kings! Tretch Craventail has been revealed as the Skaven's newest Legendary Lord, leading Clan Rictus in Naggaroth.

Not Thanqol? Who do I have to sacrifice to the Horned Rat to get him?

[Blackhawk748]

Not Thanqol? Who do I have to sacrifice to the Horned Rat to get him?

An all you can eat buffet pass?

[Spacewolf]

Intriguing, how difficult is he labeled as?

He's labelled as Hard I've just had a go with him on my game and the Dark elves are pretty annoying to deal with although I might have been too expansionist as well the two factions to your east die fairly easily but the one that's surrounding you to you west has a good chance of calling Morthai into help them. Also I was losing approx 150 troops to each enemy commander before I managed to break the rest of their armies and rout them.

[Vaz]

Just been spanked Khalida assaulting the Sentinels of Xeti last settlement. Khalida (Level 4) moved, with a unit of Sepulchral Stalkers, Necroknights, 4 Archers, 2 Tier 2 infantry, Death Liche, and the rest as Sword Infantry. They sallied.

The Slann murders your infantry with Wind Blast, and 7 units of (some Shielded) Saurus are hard to handle for 1 early game army. Managed to win, but lost Necroknights, Stalkers, Khalida and a unit of Archers, so I'm going to retry. Knew it would be difficult, but when an AI wizard which drops less than 2 minutes into a battle can rack up nearly 200 Kills, it's pretty rough. Spirit Leexh and Focus fire soon dropped him though.

[Vitruviansquid]

Ugh... I never realized how annoying it would be to limit yourself to one army at the first sixteen turns of the game. Playing my first Settra campaign feels like whack-a-mole with all these tiny orc armies running around.

[Vaz]

It is slightly annoying. I kind of wish that at least Settra, given that's he supposedly the easiest (no, no, Arkhan is the easiest by far - he's fighting Bretonnians missing their Knights until Turn 40), got access to +1 or more armies at the start, or at least a faster (doubled?) Research speed until he researches his first dynasty.

It's extremely polished, but I find myself being slightly annoyed by a few of the Dynasty Researches.

As Khalida, I have Sepulchral Stalkers and Necroknights, but they both do the same job. They share the same build tree (Necroknights T4, Stalkers T3). The gold is plenty enough to play tall on your first province playing reasonably aggressive (Sentinels of Xeti dead by Turn 15), without needing to Raid or Sack. So, you can quite comfortably rush for more Necroknights ASAP, but pumping growth buildings. However, the researches for the two units are in different Dynasties. To get both benefits, you need a minimum of 43 turns, by which stage you can quite comfortably be pushing close to T5 Necroknight Halbs. Stalkers only value at that stage is that they don't share the unit cap, and can provide a decent knock back to assist Necroknights, but at the same time, you could also be picking up Hierotitan's or Necrosphinx.

Necroknights have the benefit of their tree actually benefitting other units - Stalkers get Carrion - until later in the Campaign, when you get your 3rd army, I don't think Carrion are all that useful, because Flock of Djaf - and Tomb Scorpions, which are on another T4 build tree option - there's not enough Gold without really, really pushing for Gold to get the two T4 units. Meanwhile, Necroknights have SCC and, more importantly Casket of Souls benefits. The CoS is a fantastic artillery piece, and giving it another 4 shots and 10% Damage is incredible, and the tree provides +5 MA/MD, +10 Armour and +10% Weapon damage. Stalkers don't get the strength bonus.

I mean, it's not gamebreaking, but I'd love Stalkers to be somewhat worthwhile as something other than "oh, you can't afford enough/have expanded enough" to afford to replace all your lower tier Stalkers with Necroknights.

[Grim Portent]

I feel that's kind of a problem with most factions, some units are just low tier versions of high tier ones with the only real reason to use the weaker ones being upkeep or lack of tech, the exceptions mostly being when there is no higher tier unit of the same role.

This is then excacerbated by most factions splitting up techs into buffing either low or high tier units (why research zombie buff tech as VCs when grave guard buff tech is in a separate branching path of the same tree?) and lord abilities often doing the same.

[Vitruviansquid]

Update on my Hard Settra campaign:

It has somehow helped to hit the Top Knotz settlement to my northeast rather than the one on the northwest as an opener. I belive it may be because you can run into and murder an orc stack along the way. Then I doubled back and took the Top Knotz settlement to my northwest before hitting the fortified provincial capital. I made a big mistake of letting the Top Knotz live on as a Horde with a goblin great shaman and two units, thinking they'll leave for good or be killed off by another faction. Instead, they rapidly got back to a full stack of Savage orcs and besieged my capital.

It feels *very* good to get that dynasty tech researched and come out with a second army. It is still a bit of a pain in the ass to run around the vast desert, though I am getting more and more surprised at how fast Tomb Kings armies can go with an embedded Necrotect and some of the right followers.

[Vaz]

I feel that's kind of a problem with most factions, some units are just low tier versions of high tier ones with the only real reason to use the weaker ones being upkeep or lack of tech, the exceptions mostly being when there is no higher tier unit of the same role.

This is then excacerbated by most factions splitting up techs into buffing either low or high tier units (why research zombie buff tech as VCs when grave guard buff tech is in a separate branching path of the same tree?) and lord abilities often doing the same.

It feels exacerbated for TK due to the limited pop cap. I mean, Stalkers are larger NN steeds with arms, and are still Constructs. I think I might wait a bit until there are some more Mods. Maybe reinstall SFO2.

Honestly, I'm just looking for a more DEI style mod for WH.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

CA also just updated their free-LC schedule. Judging by the NON-Tomb-Kings pyramid in the backdrop, the next Legendary Lord's gonna be for the Lizardmen! COMMENCE SPECULATION!

[Grim Portent]

Kroak or that skink guy would be obvious ones.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Isn't Kroak kinda...dead?