Warhammer 2 Total War

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I don't have a computer that can run it, but I'm following this game nonetheless. I'm really curious to see how the High Elves do in multiplayer now that Mortal Empires is out. From what I've seen, they have a particular weakness to artillery, since it's fairly simple to get rid of their elite infantry or at least dispel Martial Prowess at range, and their own artillery is fairly weak. In TWW2 by itself, only one faction can really take advantage of that, but 1 had a bunch of different factions that could bring heavy amounts of artillery. The Empire, Chaos, and the dwarves could all probably make effective anti-HE builds based on defending a large artillery corps with a quincunx formation of anti-large units (straight lines are a bad idea thanks to Fiery Convocation), and I'm not sure how to best counter such things.

Actually, the Lizardfolk counter HE pretty damn strongly. Every one of their melee infantry can end up with a shield, which really neuters the archers which are the HE's strongpoint. Couple of squads of spears with shields or Crocasaurs will do for any flanking calvary who try to stir things up. Then it's just a big ol' hatchet fight with Temple Guards and Crocasaurs tying up with the enemies, and whatever dinosaurs I have rampaging through their archers.

[LCP]

HE seem to make out like bandits vs. most WH1 factions - they had the best win/loss ratio on stream of any faction in last weekend's tournament.

[Vitruviansquid]

High elves have pretty good archers, true.

But the way I see it, their main strength is in elite infantry and flying monsters. They have decent cavalry as well, but no anti-large cavalry means they will typically lose the cavalry fight (though I have not tested any matchups) to factions with stuff like Cold One Knights, Blood Knights, Cold One Spear-riders, Demigryph Knights, Boar Boy Big 'uns, and you get the picture.

High Elf Spearmen are also pretty much the best chump infantry in the game. Before being reduced to 50% health, an unranked, unmodified spearman unit has 50 defense, which is head and shoulder above their competitors, and even many elites. Combine this with silver shields, and they are one of the most cost effective meatshields you could have against both melee and small missiles. And they still retain the ability to school large units.

[LCP]

Dragon Princes are strong enough to win cav vs. many of the units you mention - they have a huge charge bonus, Martial Mastery and 30% physical resistance. Ellyrian Reavers are also some of the best light cav in the game.

[Blackhawk748]

High elves have pretty good archers, true.

But the way I see it, their main strength is in elite infantry and flying monsters. They have decent cavalry as well, but no anti-large cavalry means they will typically lose the cavalry fight (though I have not tested any matchups) to factions with stuff like Cold One Knights, Blood Knights, Cold One Spear-riders, Demigryph Knights, Boar Boy Big 'uns, and you get the picture.

High Elf Spearmen are also pretty much the best chump infantry in the game. Before being reduced to 50% health, an unranked, unmodified spearman unit has 50 defense, which is head and shoulder above their competitors, and even many elites. Combine this with silver shields, and they are one of the most cost effective meatshields you could have against both melee and small missiles. And they still retain the ability to school large units.

Being fair, Blood Knights are a frelling terror, especially when supported right.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Somewhat of a weird question but if I’m playing the Empire (in either the first game or Mortal Empires), what are the most “lore accurate” buildings I should build in Altdorf? I know that the Colleges of Magic are located there, and Stables to build up to the Menagerie as the Imperial Zoo, but after that I’m not sure what other buildings I can fit in to make the Altdorf of the game match the Altdorf of the lore as closely as possible.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I'd build a Reiksfort not in Altdorf but in one of it's smaller buildings. It's also home to the Imperial Engineers School (though you might want to make Nuln your engineer-centre anyways). It also has the Great Cathedral of Sigmar, so you want to build that line up to it's max as well, giving you mass priests and religious troops.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'd build a Reiksfort not in Altdorf but in one of it's smaller buildings. It's also home to the Imperial Engineers School (though you might want to make Nuln your engineer-centre anyways). It also has the Great Cathedral of Sigmar, so you want to build that line up to it's max as well, giving you mass priests and religious troops.

That makes sense, considering the encyclopedia entry on the Reiksfort says “The Reiksguard’s HQ is in Altdorf, but this is a smaller satellite fort they can rapidly deploy from.” Thank you!

[Vitruviansquid]

Dragon Princes are strong enough to win cav vs. many of the units you mention - they have a huge charge bonus, Martial Mastery and 30% physical resistance. Ellyrian Reavers are also some of the best light cav in the game.

Did some testing with the AI. As it turns out, Dragon Princes will beat Cold one knights and Boar boy big uns 1v1. The Princes' stats are just too huge to lose. However, you can almost afford 3 of either unit for every 2 Dragon Princes, but I cannot test a 3v2 more cleanly against the AI.

[NRSASD]

I'm thinking of buying TW Warhammer 1 and all it's expansions during the christmas/black friday sale. I'm a huge total war fan, but the last game I played was Empire. Not really a fan of Warhammer in general though. Is this game worth buying on its merits as a TW game?

[Vitruviansquid]

I'm thinking of buying TW Warhammer 1 and all it's expansions during the christmas/black friday sale. I'm a huge total war fan, but the last game I played was Empire. Not really a fan of Warhammer in general though. Is this game worth buying on its merits as a TW game?

Warhammer takes after Rome 2 and Attila, which were kind of strange departures from earlier Total War games. Units now have different amounts of HP and weapon damage, and you will see a much larger number of stats to wrap your head around than in previous games.

Does Warhammer hold up well as a game? I would say so. I've been playing Total War since Medieval 1 (skipped Napoleon, though), and I've found Warhammer and Warhammer 2 to be the deepest and most interesting of them on the campaign strategy layer as well as on the battle tactical layer. But then, I'm constantly surprised by the different reasons why people say they play Total War.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Does Warhammer hold up well as a game? I would say so. I've been playing Total War since Medieval 1 (skipped Napoleon, though), and I've found Warhammer and Warhammer 2 to be the deepest and most interesting of them on the campaign strategy layer as well as on the battle tactical layer. But then, I'm constantly surprised by the different reasons why people say they play Total War.

Is it still the case that humans can only take over vampire cities and viceversa, and both are forced to raze all other cities to the ground (with similar pairings for other races)? I understand that has been replaced in TW:WH2 with the "climate" mechanic, but has it been retroactively applied to TW:WH?

GW

[Vitruviansquid]

Is it still the case that humans can only take over vampire cities and viceversa, and both are forced to raze all other cities to the ground (with similar pairings for other races)? I understand that has been replaced in TW:WH2 with the "climate" mechanic, but has it been retroactively applied to TW:WH?

GW

Nothing has been retroactively applied to WH1

[boomwolf]

Half true.
In the "combined map" mode of TWW2 that you get if you own both games, all races are updated to the climate mechanics.
Ironically it turns some previous conquerable zones into harsh, so you can get more stuff, but some of the old stuff are worse.

[Corsair14]

On the combined map I think all races cant capture all towns now. Think being the operative word.

[thorgrim29]

Yeah in mortal empires the settlements work like in TW Warhammer 2. Also I don't know if it's a holdover from the Old World or not but I'm having a really hard time with Brettonia... I think it's because of all the cash I need to sink into infrastructure before I can recruit halfway decent troops.

[Vitruviansquid]

Half true.
In the "combined map" mode of TWW2 that you get if you own both games, all races are updated to the climate mechanics.
Ironically it turns some previous conquerable zones into harsh, so you can get more stuff, but some of the old stuff are worse.

On the combined map I think all races cant capture all towns now. Think being the operative word.

But to be clear, since you need to own both WH1 and WH2 to play Mortal Empires, if anyone is asking whether climates are in Total War: Warhammer because they intend to only buy Total War: Warhammer (if it's on sale or something)... no, you would not have climates.

Yeah in mortal empires the settlements work like in TW Warhammer 2. Also I don't know if it's a holdover from the Old World or not but I'm having a really hard time with Brettonia... I think it's because of all the cash I need to sink into infrastructure before I can recruit halfway decent troops.

The cost for the stables chain is so bad, especially when knights of the realm are tier 3.

Now that capitals have extra building slots, it'd be nice if Bretonnian cavalry was split into two building chains.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

This is for the first game, but at this stage I suppose it kind of works for both.

I've been playing as the Empire and find myself getting a tad frustrated. I'm able to unite Reikland quickly enough, but when I start moving out into other provinces, the Beastmen tear into town and trash up everything, murdering my economy with it. So I either find myself stuck in Reikland for over 50+ turns trying to build up enough money to get better buildings so I can get two more armies, one to defend Reikland while I'm gone and the other to follow Karl Franz around so I can actually win sieges!

SIGMAR'S TEETH, WHY?!

[Vitruviansquid]

This is for the first game, but at this stage I suppose it kind of works for both.

I've been playing as the Empire and find myself getting a tad frustrated. I'm able to unite Reikland quickly enough, but when I start moving out into other provinces, the Beastmen tear into town and trash up everything, murdering my economy with it. So I either find myself stuck in Reikland for over 50+ turns trying to build up enough money to get better buildings so I can get two more armies, one to defend Reikland while I'm gone and the other to follow Karl Franz around so I can actually win sieges!

SIGMAR'S TEETH, WHY?!

Playing on Hard, I had success breaking out of early game by doing this:

1. Smash the secessionist army, recruit 3 units, take the eastern settlement in Reikland on turn 2.
2. Double back west and take the southwestern settlement. Then go north and take the northwestern settlement. You should have Reikland united now, at turn 5 or 6.
3. Take your main army past Marienburg and immediately smash Grung Zint, thereby preempting the Greenskin threat.
4. Any time the main army is not recruiting, you should have a second army recruiting. Put them in the southwestern settlement to defend against an inevitable beastmen attack.

Once the beastmen are defeated or slink off without challenging your second army, you have a bit more flexibility.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So should I recruit a new Lord right on Turn 1? Or wait until later?

Also, how do I get Nordland to like me so I can do the Reikland Runefang quest, or Middenland to like me so I can confederate them and add Boris Todbringer to my armies?

[Vitruviansquid]

So should I recruit a new Lord right on Turn 1? Or wait until later?

Also, how do I get Nordland to like me so I can do the Reikland Runefang quest, or Middenland to like me so I can confederate them and add Boris Todbringer to my armies?

I recruit the new Lord whenever I can't or don't need to recruit 3 units for my main Legendary Lord.

I... actually don't know what you'd do about Nordland. Never considered this, since I always only played Balthasar Gelt. Nordland starts the game allied with Middenland, and the two of them tend to end up warring with Marienburg at some points, so maybe declare war on Marienburg when Nordland's at war with them. I think Norsca will also rumble with Nordland fairly early. Certainly when Chaos sweeps down. As for confederating with Middenland... I never considered it. I consider the Middenland/Nordland alliance to be there only to act as a mire for the Chaos armies, so it was never in my interest to conquer or confederate them. All's I know about confederating is, you want to have good relations with the faction, and the faction needs to feel militarily threatened by a third party. In order to achieve the latter, you actually don't want to get into an alliance with them.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So you’re saying I need to pick between moving the Reiklander Runefang quest along or trying to get Boris Todbringer (THE MAN! THE LEGEND!) as a “bonus” Legendary Lord?

[Guancyto]

If you can afford to go a-expeditioning, smashing the Vampire Counts gets Empire factions to like you (they like it when you smash people they hate, and they hate vampires) and gets you some valuable land (once you've built up some sources of +Untainted so as to counteract the vampire corruption you don't even need a permanent garrison for Sylvania, and it has a ton of resources).

Meanwhile sailing north and smashing Norsca is harder (attrition for days) and gets you very little money (their settlements sack for about 4k each), but sacking and subsequently razing Norscan settlements both gets you huge diplomatic bonuses to Empire factions (they hate Norsca) and a little extra breathing room when Chaos comes calling (because you don't have to worry about Norscan invasions so much).

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That’s kinda hard to do when you you’re just starting out and Sylvania is clear on the other side of a bunch of Elector Count lands I’d need to trespass through to get to it...

[Vitruviansquid]

So you’re saying I need to pick between moving the Reiklander Runefang quest along or trying to get Boris Todbringer (THE MAN! THE LEGEND!) as a “bonus” Legendary Lord?

No, I'm saying that both objectives are outside the realm of my expertise.

[Grytorm]

Hello, I was thinking of getting this game at some point, and I was wondering. Would I need to get the first one as well in order to play the old world factions or is that included.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Hello, I was thinking of getting this game at some point, and I was wondering. Would I need to get the first one as well in order to play the old world factions or is that included.

I know that DLC factions like the Wood Elves, Beastmen and Bretonnia need the DLC they came with to be unlocked in Mortal Empires. As for the originals (Greenskins, Vampire Counts, Dwarfs and Empire) I'm not sure if you need the base game or not, but I believe the answer is yes.

[Guancyto]

You need both games for the Mortal Empires campaign (the one that has the Old World races), yes. If you just have Warhammer Total War 2 you only get the Eye of the Vortex campaign, which only has Helves, Delves, Lizards and Skaven as playable.

That being said there are mods to unlock the various factions on the Vortex campaign map, so if you wanna play Dwarves with just WHTW2 you can, but you'd be doing it in the New World.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Something I've been wondering: the Empire guide I've been following recommends after unifying Reikland to take Kemperbad next and then head straight for Averheim, ignoring that you're kind of trespassing on Stirland along the way, and still have Talabecland mad at me since I didn't conquer Talabheim to finish the job, plus when I've attempted so in the past, Marienburg or Nordland have sneak-attacked Reikland the minute I drop my guard. And there's the aforementioned Beastmen, who are much more dangerous this time than when I was playing as the Greenskins.

Once Averheim's taken, the guide has you pick at Stirland, then invade Nuln and Wissenland, before finally finishing by taking Wurtbad.

Even if it IS out of date, it seems odd to, once you've established yourself, jump for a distant province instead of expanding to more immediate neighbors. Has anyone else had success with the Empire that can critique this or maybe suggest what worked for them to get up and running in the early game?

I'm finding it hard to leave Reikland once I've dealt with the secessionists, babysitting the place while I wait for buildings to be finished and money to come into my coffers so I can actually get a second army, and waiting 50 to 60 turns with a single province probably isn't how the game means you to play it.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That being said there are mods to unlock the various factions on the Vortex campaign map, so if you wanna play Dwarves with just WHTW2 you can, but you'd be doing it in the New World.

Oh, that's an interesting piece of information. That you very much for mentioning it. I had not even considered that it might be possible to do that. Are they steam mods, or would I have to hack the game?

GW