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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Post Pathfinder Archer Half-Orc Optimization?

    So I was reading up on some changes (been a while for me) and I came across this little gem:

    Hornbow.
    Exotic, Orc. Treated as a composite bow in all respects with regards to effects. Dam (M) 2d6. R 80.
    So you sacrifice 30 feet of range for essentially free gravity bow all day long.

    In the campaign I'm rolling up for, all-day non-stop endless combat is the norm. Typically against EL+5 or higher (yes we lose 1 or 2 PCs per session, unless we wipe).

    That aside I was looking at high damage output, staying back, as well as decent defense options.

    Half-orc can boost their saves via Fates' Favored trait (+1 to all luck bonuses) and swapping out their racial ability "Suicide Pact", a.k.a. Ferocity.

    It's a home game so custom magic items (say at-will divine favor?) are allowed. Don't expect any wealth after that though. So I have a basic template...just not sure which direction to go to finish.

    We get a 32 pt buy, unless we want extra feats, each extra feat costs 4 ability points. So a 28 pt buy gets a bonus feat, 24 gets 2 and so on. Oh no stat dumping below 8.

    Starting level (average party level) currently 3.
    Standard wealth by level for new characters. Again don't expect any treasure after.

    Hammer, the Half-orc Archer
    Level: 3
    Class: ???
    Archetype: ???
    Traits: Reactionary (+2 Init) Fates' Favored (+1 to all luck bonuses)
    Alternate race trait: Sacred Tattoo, replaces Ferocity. +1 luck to all saves.
    Combat gear: MW Darkwood Hornbow, +3(or +2 if not enough ability points) Str. Wondrous Item of Divine Favor, Command-word "What's my motivation?", X class only.

    So out of the gate, he's +2 init (or higher for a dex build), +2 all saves, +2/+2 with DF buff and firing a 2d6 bow.

    Some options:
    Zen Archer. Loses evasion, but very well rounded saves and maxed will save. Stack with Qinggong to make up for low wealth. Fast movement for getting out of dodge. Never provoke again (Point Blank Master at 3)
    Paladin. Now we get +Cha to saves on top. Hospitaler if I want to the party. Highest AC with Breastplate and MW buckler at start. And smite juiciness for at least one boss a day (now the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. he's out of luck though). GM allows LN or LE pallies he uses the "law/chaos" axis vs. "good/evil" for paladins.
    Ranger. A good blend of out of combat abilities. Could be very good if I get lucky with the favored enemy.
    Summoner. Pounce quadrapet while I pepper with arrows. Needs extra feats. And really half-elf is better.
    Bard. A great support character. Downside is he will run out of support buffs long before the combat day is over plus very MAD and feat starved.
    Magus Archer I like the fluff but without a means of regaining his consumables all day he'll run out of gas too soon.
    Open to other suggestions as well!***
    Thanks in advance!

    *** if you post a type that is long term (i.e. cleric 20) please indicate what they look like at level 3. And remember little or no wealth after start.
    Last edited by Rerednaw; 2017-11-02 at 01:44 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Archer Half-Orc Optimization?

    Could he be a she? I ask because if so you can qualify for the sanguine angel prestige class. At second level in sanguine angel, you can add your strength to attacks instead of dex with a bow, making your far less MAD. Good if you go with a heavy armor build(fighter or paladin). It is feat intensive, but an interesting option and allows for switch hitting.

    Zen archer is really easy because the build works for you, with strong saves, and is less MAD than the usual monk. Archer paladin is also really strong if you get your smite off, and is better than ranger outright IMO. I would go archerdin or monk personally. Summoner with bow backup is good, but it won't be the main part of your build and weaker than other options if you focus into archery. If you go magus, eldritch archer is your pick and is good, but like you said is more about a few strong hits and can run out of steam. Bard is okay but again, archery will be a secondary part of your build unless you focus on it, in which case there are stronger options.

    Have you considered luring caviler? It gives heavy armor, challenge(smite anything) a mount and full BAB.

    Regardless of build, you want clustered shots at higher levels as DR eats into the efficiency of multiple arrows. Feats are straightforward point blank, precise shot, rapid shot(not for zen archer), deadly aim, manyshot(not zen archer), clustered shots, snap shot, etc. I would probably not buy a feat as ability scores are worth more in the long run. At level 3 you have point blank and precise, perhaps more if you have a bonus class feat, and that is enough to get things going.
    Last edited by Geddy2112; 2017-11-02 at 10:53 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Archer Half-Orc Optimization?

    Have you checked out the Inquisitor? They make for really good gish archers, and half-orcs make great Inquisitors if you want to jack up your intimidation.

    A Alayer is actually a really good archer if you want to go martial. They get access to the Ranger bonus feats, have SA, and they get extra static damage from Studied Target.

    The general rule is that the three BEST martial archers for DPR are Ranger, Fighter, and Zen Archer. Fighter for the static damage (great when you're shooting out so many arrows) but they lose in utility. Zen Archer for mobility and saves along with Flurry. Ranger for spell-casting (they get archer specific spells - though the Inquisitor gets many of them too).

    In addition, Slayer, Ranger, Fighter, and Zen Archer are amongst the only classes which get access to Point Blank Master, making melee foes closing in not a big deal.
    Last edited by CharonsHelper; 2017-11-02 at 11:42 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Archer Half-Orc Optimization?

    Simple Ranger/Wizard/Arcane Archer (with Prestigious Spellcaster) or Cleric 20 can be really good. Cleric 20 would obviously play up the Zen Archery approach while Wizard would obviously be more MAD but with an incredible list of spells to show for it. Obviously far as defenses go, no class beats Cleric so that's one vote in its favour.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2017-11-02 at 11:53 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Archer Half-Orc Optimization?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Simple Ranger/Wizard/Arcane Archer (with Prestigious Spellcaster) or Cleric 20 can be really good. Cleric 20 would obviously play up the Zen Archery approach while Wizard would obviously be more MAD but with an incredible list of spells to show for it.
    This is Pathfinder. The Zen Archery feat (fortunately - it was one of 3.x's worse balance decisions) doesn't exist.

    I believe that the only way to use WIS for archery is the Zen Archer archetype for the monk.
    Last edited by CharonsHelper; 2017-11-02 at 12:03 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Archer Half-Orc Optimization?

    Quote Originally Posted by CharonsHelper View Post
    This is Pathfinder. The Zen Archery feat (fortunately) doesn't exist.

    I believe that the only way to use WIS for archery is the Zen Archer archetype for the monk.
    It doesn't? Pity. Well, you can swing Cleric Archer just fine without it as well.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Archer Half-Orc Optimization?

    Quote Originally Posted by CharonsHelper View Post
    This is Pathfinder. The Zen Archery feat (fortunately - it was one of 3.x's worse balance decisions) doesn't exist.

    I believe that the only way to use WIS for archery is the Zen Archer archetype for the monk.
    It does, it is deity specific and requires weapon focus(longbow) but you can use wis for attack outside of monk.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Archer Half-Orc Optimization?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geddy2112 View Post
    It does, it is deity specific and requires weapon focus(longbow) but you can use wis for attack outside of monk.
    *heavy sigh* Yet another example of their player companions producing sub-par material.

    Frankly - like the original Slashing Grace, I would expect (and hope) that it's errata'd away.

    And maybe I'm reading it wrong - but it looks like Pathfinder Society already banned it. (they tend to have a better idea of balance than the rest of Paizo)
    Last edited by CharonsHelper; 2017-11-02 at 12:36 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Archer Half-Orc Optimization?

    If you're going Fates Favored and Erastil's Blessing, you might as well go Warpriest and pick up Divine Favor that you can cast as a swift action, and then righteous might as you go on.


    Also, tangentially, I don't personally think Zen Archery is anywhere near one of the most borked feats in 3.5
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Archer Half-Orc Optimization?

    Quote Originally Posted by CharonsHelper View Post
    *heavy sigh* Yet another example of their player companions producing sub-par material.

    Frankly - like the original Slashing Grace, I would expect (and hope) that it's errata'd away.

    And maybe I'm reading it wrong - but it looks like Pathfinder Society already banned it. (they tend to have a better idea of balance than the rest of Paizo)
    Psst, nobody show him Guided Hand.
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