OOTS #1104 - The Discussion Thread

[zoofroot]

Forcecage bursts if something inside it grows too big, right?

It doesn't say so in the spell description; it only says the forcecage doesn't appear if something too big is in the way when you cast it. I would definitely rule that it does not burst from something growing, because that doesn't make sense and goes against the spirit of the spell, which is that the thing is nigh indestructible.

Roy readies an action to attack the nearest low-level vampire.
V casts Empowered Enlarge Person on him, making him real big.
Cage bursts, Roy hits the nearest vampire with all his greenflamey might, Great Cleaving through all the vampires.

Enlarge Person cannot be Empowered, because the spell has no randomly variable numeric effects. Enlarged Roy would fit fine in a forcecage. Even if you could Empower Enlarge Person (increasing its effect by half), the resulting Roy would fit fine in a forcecage.

[Trillium]

It doesn't say so in the spell description; it only says the forcecage doesn't appear if something too big is in the way when you cast it. I would definitely rule that it does not burst from something growing, because that doesn't make sense and goes against the spirit of the spell, which is that the thing is nigh indestructible.

Enlarge Person cannot be Empowered, because the spell has no randomly variable numeric effects. Enlarged Roy would fit fine in a forcecage. Even if you could Empower Enlarge Person (increasing its effect by half), the resulting Roy would fit fine in a forcecage.

Eh, here goes my brilliant plan. Nevermind.

[Chei]

Yeah, you're right.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/catsGrace.htm

Strange, I thought paladin had it too.

Yeah, only Sor/Wiz get their pick of the stat-buff spells. Every other casting class is assigned the ones that most suit their own class.

[Skull the Troll]

Bear Puns.....
-panda to the lowest common denominator.

[Dracoqwerty]

Would Haley be able to summon something outside the Forcecage using one of her wands? A mephit or lantern archon could do some damage to the vampires and potentially avoid attacks due to their flight.

Dracoqwerty

[Lord Torath]

Would Haley be able to summon something outside the Forcecage using one of her wands? A mephit or lantern archon could do some damage to the vampires and potentially avoid attacks due to their flight.

Dracoqwerty

Nope. The Wall of Force blocks spells, whether they are cast by a magic user (arcane or clerical magic) or from a device. She could summon something that could teleport and have it teleport outside the Cube, though. We've already seen that Dimension Door/Teleport can get you out of a Force Cage.

[Jasdoif]

Would Haley be able to summon something outside the Forcecage using one of her wands? A mephit or lantern archon could do some damage to the vampires and potentially avoid attacks due to their flight.

No, line of effect means she'd have to summon it inside the forcecage. If she happens to have a wand of summon monster IV, she could summon a lantern archon which has the ability to teleport itself....But I think a lantern archon's magic circle against evil effect is far more useful to protect everyone from domination, than its pitiful damage potential would be.

[Chei]

I wonder if Haley even has any 4th-level wands. The highest I remember is Fly, at 3rd-level. 4th-level wands can be crazy expensive, though I suppose the purchase of one/two would go a long way to explaining why the Order is tight on funds.

[danielxcutter]

I wonder if Haley even has any 4th-level wands. The highest I remember is Fly, at 3rd-level. 4th-level wands can be crazy expensive, though I suppose the purchase of one/two would go a long way to explaining why the Order is tight on funds.

May not be relevant, but I do believe you can buy used wands at a discount? You know, ones that already have some of their charges used up.

[Jasdoif]

May not be relevant, but I do believe you can buy used wands at a discount? You know, ones that already have some of their charges used up.

You mean like partially charged wands?

[danielxcutter]

You mean like partially charged wands?

Ah yes, thank you. That's what I meant.

[Chei]

Hm, that is an interesting detail. 50% off still makes the average 4th-level wand pricier than a Resurrection spell, but it does seem like Haley could be packing a few.

In fact, in addition to Haley having a bunch of unspecified wands for dramatic purposes, we now have what could be foreshadowing for why Haley would not have the right wand at a critical moment - she could curse herself for going for the 50% wands instead of the full-price ones.

[Manty5]

she could curse herself for going for the 50% wands instead of the full-price ones.

Indeed, since Bestow Curse is 4th level, she would need the 50% wand to curse herself.

... I'll show myself out.

[danielxcutter]

Indeed, since Bestow Curse is 4th level, she would need the 50% wand to curse herself.

... I'll show myself out.

Well done.

[Centaur]

Partially charged wands were initially discounted 50% in that store, but Haley might have been able to haggle them down even more.

[F.Harr]

Yeah, Elan. That's a distinction you really want.

I think it has something to do with Belkar too, though.

[Snails]

Wands of non-low spells are not something you buy, it is something to loot from the corpses of your enemies.

In principle, a PC could acquire a once per day 4th level spell for 10080gp, or a 4th level spell on a 50 charge wand for 21000gp. Unless you have found some hyperoptimal gambit where spamming 4th level spells multiple times per day is the path to riches, the PC is usually better off with a once per day trick for less money, or two different once per day tricks.

I played with DMs who allowed us to buy 25 charge wands, and it did not result in a wand buying spree for wands of spells greater than 1st level. It was just another tactic that a few PC used.

[Riftwolf]

Wands of non-low spells are not something you buy, it is something to loot from the corpses of your enemies.

In principle, a PC could acquire a once per day 4th level spell for 10080gp, or a 4th level spell on a 50 charge wand for 21000gp. Unless you have found some hyperoptimal gambit where spamming 4th level spells multiple times per day is the path to riches, the PC is usually better off with a once per day trick for less money, or two different once per day tricks.

I played with DMs who allowed us to buy 25 charge wands, and it did not result in a wand buying spree for wands of spells greater than 1st level. It was just another tactic that a few PC used.

Never underestimate wands of Stone Shape. I'm surprised a GM actually *gave* me one.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'm still surprised at plenty of the stuff the DM let me get away with. Smoke powder and Oil of Fiery Burning is a nasty (and entertaining) combination.

[Jasdoif]

In principle, a PC could acquire a once per day 4th level spell for 10080gp, or a 4th level spell on a 50 charge wand for 21000gp.

If that principle is "the DM adheres slavishly to the magic item pricing guidelines that specifically recommend comparing new items to similar existing items instead", sure.

Otherwise, I think that eternal wands (which function twice a day) only going up to 3rd level, and 3rd level eternal wands costing 10,900gp, might be indicative of something.

[Kish]

Eternal wands are also explicitly supposed to be part of Eberron's "magic is technology" setting, and not to be used in settings that maintain a more traditional pseudo-medieval feel.

Just to point out that they're not actually in a core "you MUST make this available to ALL your players" book.

[Jasdoif]

Eternal wands are also explicitly supposed to be part of Eberron's "magic is technology" setting, and not to be used in settings that maintain a more traditional pseudo-medieval feel.

They were reprinted in Magic Item Compendium, though.

[VelociRapture12]

Just an idea but what if V bought the D-Door Shoes at the artificers shop in tinker town it would allow him to effectively avoid the vampires, and allow him to dismiss the forcecage.

[Jasdoif]

Just an idea but what if V bought the D-Door Shoes at the artificers shop in tinker town it would allow him to effectively avoid the vampires, and allow him to dismiss the forcecage.

It'd certainly be a viable option. But it has the complication that using dimension door ends your turn; even the quickened fireball Vaarsuvius just mentioned would have to wait a turn. Detonating that quickened fireball on the vampires huddled around the forcecage and then dismissing the forcecage would work well enough (though obviously better with a good roll on the fireball's damage), if Vaarsuvius doesn't accidentally teleport into the reach of vampires the Order can't perceive.

[Peelee]

Just an idea but what if V bought the D-Door Shoes at the artificers shop in tinker town it would allow him to effectively avoid the vampires, and allow him to dismiss the forcecage.

Day late, dollar short.

So the thought strikes me that, if V had gotten the boots of Dimension Door, he would be in a great position to jump out of the Forcecage and toss an AoE blast without worrying about hurting his friends.

Shoulda went back to the shop.

If it was doable, it's likely he would have done it by now.

[a1chemi]

Day late, dollar short.


If it was doable, it's likely he would have done it by now.

This. If there is a way for V to resolve this with magic alone, the tension in the situation would feel cheap and pointless.

[Kantaki]

Hopefully they are not allowed to bear arms.

Arming bears?
No one who's still in their right mind would do that.

[schmunzel]

Well done.

of curse it'll only deliver half assed results

sch

[Kish]

Arming bears?
No one who's still in their right mind would do that.

Bears don't need weapons.

[zimmerwald1915]

Bears don't need weapons.

Just ask the Ministry of Experimental Science.