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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Here's an interesting idea I've had, although it would require you to be okay with relatively specialized characters because it's the end result of the syste.

    -Players only purchase Ability Scores and Advantages/Disadvantages at character creation, but can put aside as many points as they want for skills (potential rule: at least X points must be reserved).
    -During the game when a player succeeds at a skill check they can spend some of the skill points they set aside to raise that skill by one.
    -Once a player has spend all their skill points they advance as normal (or XP becomes new skill points).

    The main problem I see here is ending up with weird skill combinations (I have three points each in pistol, climb, survival, swimming, and nuclear physics), and the fact that the more points you have in a skill the more chance you'll have to raise it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    One wrinkle on Dread is that if you don't succeed, you're going to die. Like Traveler.
    Freeform and story-driven tend to work well with this. The trick is that you start getting away from "character creation" beyond what's needed in narrative, and likely not evolve past the story.

    I can think of another sort-of example: Munchkin. Race and Class may come (and go) over the course of play. If only there were a way to harness that system for good...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliquid View Post
    Total sidebar here... but I find the acronym FAE amusing

    Consider that it is short for [Fate Accelerated Edition]... and FATE was originally an acronym itself, which was short for [Fudge Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment], based on the older Fudge RPG. Going even deeper, FUDGE was originally an acronym too [Freeform Universal Do-it-yourself Gaming Engine].

    So FAE is an acronym nested in and acronym nested in an acronym.
    Oh dear I've gone crosseyed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliquid View Post
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    I believe that the CRPG Tyranny kind of goes by that style, at least in the start, because during the "Conquest" part of the game your choices determine which benefits and special powers you get.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    In the old PC game "Dusk of the Gods", character creation was playing out the mortal life of your Einherjar. Did you spend years at the temples of the gods? Did you fight in battles? Did you study? Whatever you did, that determined your stats as an Einherjar.

    (For the record: Your best bet was to study like crazy. There were only two stats, Warrior and Sage, plus favor with 4 of the Aesir. There were a lot of easy bonuses to Warrior available, favor with the Aesir wasn't terribly important, but Sage was a rare commodity.)
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    As an example of this being mentioned as an optional thing.

    I've heard of some new World of Darkness games with the idea of this. Something like an opening module where how you handle things shapes what your opening powers/affinities are. Old World of Darkness Hunter also proposed this.
    Not my cup of tea, as I prefer more control over the mechanics/powers my character has access to, but I can see the fun of doing a game pre-powers. I was in a D&D 3.5 game where all our class features were sealed until game 2, and it was kinda cool, but we still chose our classes. (This was a real world army team gets teleported to a D&D realm.)

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyoryu View Post
    I don't really consider 3.x to be a class-based game, to be fair.

    The big issue with 3.x in terms of charop complexity is the fact that "class levels" are effectively bundles of various things, unlike buying most things in GURPS/HERO where you're just buying that thing directly. That makes balance much, much more difficult.
    I agree with what I think you mean, I just phrase is differently. 3.x re-defined "class" to be something that has nothing to do with class.

    An excellent actual class-based game is Flashing Blades, role-playing in the time and place of the musketeers, 17th century France.

    Your class is your actual social class - rogue, soldier, gentleman, or noble.
    Last edited by Jay R; 2017-11-08 at 06:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Myrmidon View Post
    There's a small RPG out there called "One Last Job" in which character creation is done as part of the planning for a heists. Looks pretty neat, but I haven't played it.
    I've played One Last Job! It is a lot of fun, but it is exclusively designed for one-shots. You might be able to extrapolate a lot of its stuff into a long-form character creation process, though.

    The basic premise is that you start the game with nothing special on your sheet - just average scores in all of the 'skills' for your game (usually, there are 4-5). You have empty slots for the following things:
    * Worst At This Skill - special
    * Best At This Skill - special
    * Legend - 2 slots
    * Scar - 2 slots
    * Equipment - 2 slots

    Whenever you fail an action, you can write in one of those five things. You can say that you are the worst at that sort of thing, and reduce your skill at it to 1, in which case you get a plot token. If someone else is already the worst at that thing, you can say that you're the best at that thing, boost your skill to 3, and reroll.

    Instead, another player can tell a story of a Legend or a Scar - a time in the past when you did something really awesome, or screwed up in a big way, related to the thing you're trying to do. I don't recall the exact rules, but I think being a Legend gives you a bonus in similar situations (instead of with similar skills), and a Scar gives you a plot token and a reroll. Finally, you can reveal a really cool piece of equipment for a reroll. Once all your slots are filled up, you can't get that thing any more.

    (One Last Job also has a thing where, if your character would die, you can instead "reveal" that you've been working against the rest of the party the whole time, and become a supporting character helping the GM.)
    Last edited by Friv; 2017-11-08 at 06:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliquid View Post
    Total sidebar here... but I find the acronym FAE amusing

    Consider that it is short for [Fate Accelerated Edition]... and FATE was originally an acronym itself, which was short for [Fudge Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment], based on the older Fudge RPG. Going even deeper, FUDGE was originally an acronym too [Freeform Universal Do-it-yourself Gaming Engine].

    So FAE is an acronym nested in and acronym nested in an acronym.

    FAE = Freeform Universal Do-it-yourself Gaming Engine Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment, Accelerated Edition
    Now I want to run a FAE campaign: FAE Unseelie Court Knights.

    It would be another layer of acronymaximization.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Now I want to run a FAE campaign: FAE Unseelie Court Knights.

    It would be another layer of acronymaximization.
    Can characters be named something like Youssef Oliver Urswinder?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    As I know there isn't such RPG
    Last edited by maracan; 2019-01-22 at 06:14 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Can characters be named something like Youssef Oliver Urswinder?
    Of course, and Youssef's erstwhile companion Meredith Everwynne.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    I agree with what I think you mean, I just phrase is differently. 3.x re-defined "class" to be something that has nothing to do with class.
    The term class has been used for the 3.x style and not just social-class for a very long time in RPGs. That's not to say that it isn't used for both, although generally games try to avoid using the term for both game classes and social classes in the same game too much (which is really easy for most games, as they aren't game class based anyways).

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Here's an interesting idea I've had, although it would require you to be okay with relatively specialized characters because it's the end result of the syste.

    -Players only purchase Ability Scores and Advantages/Disadvantages at character creation, but can put aside as many points as they want for skills (potential rule: at least X points must be reserved).
    -During the game when a player succeeds at a skill check they can spend some of the skill points they set aside to raise that skill by one.
    -Once a player has spend all their skill points they advance as normal (or XP becomes new skill points).

    The main problem I see here is ending up with weird skill combinations (I have three points each in pistol, climb, survival, swimming, and nuclear physics), and the fact that the more points you have in a skill the more chance you'll have to raise it.
    I have used this for GURPs (in a modern day setting game)
    Players buy stats and main advantages / disadvantages and then I gave a generic(ish) set of skill

    Players could then chose others as the game progressed and they created more of a back story

    The other one we use most of the time is Quirks - we allow 5 points of quirks to be spent at the start of the game but then as you develop you actually specify them

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Wow, seems like I have a lot of reading to do...

    Seems people have a different vision then me for this concept, I thought about it as a way to ease players into a complex game system or world, while the examples seem to be more focused on narrative or adding some "spice". I got this idea due to thoughts about organizing a Nobilis group, and realizing I'll need to explain things like Chancels and Imperators and defining the estate and how abstractly defined abilities work, and I thought about that if a player will misunderstand the feel of the world he'll probably create a very different character then what he would like to play. I guess one day I'll invent a game system / setting with such play-build system and use this thread as reference.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by akma View Post
    Wow, seems like I have a lot of reading to do...

    Seems people have a different vision then me for this concept, I thought about it as a way to ease players into a complex game system or world, while the examples seem to be more focused on narrative or adding some "spice". I got this idea due to thoughts about organizing a Nobilis group, and realizing I'll need to explain things like Chancels and Imperators and defining the estate and how abstractly defined abilities work, and I thought about that if a player will misunderstand the feel of the world he'll probably create a very different character then what he would like to play. I guess one day I'll invent a game system / setting with such play-build system and use this thread as reference.
    If you want to introduce players to a game, you could try doing a one-session short game to start off a campaign, not directly related to the campaign and with different PCs. (Though if the players really like the PC they had, you could port it to the real game.)

    I've sometimes found that I don't really get how some mechanics will play out when I"m first reading about a game, but then I feel stuck (especially if the mechanic is crucial to my backstory or overall build, something that can't easily be retconned). Having a short game to introduce the mechanics and get a feel for it would be nice, especially if the group expects a long campaign and can meet often enough that one short game outside the main campaign doesn't slow things down too much.

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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    In Traveller your character can die during character creation.
    hahaha if that is true that is awesome
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    I'm not sure but I thiink maybe in Beyond the Wall you migit create your PC in the first session of play, not sure. You certianly build you starting village together (I havent played it, not read it, just what ive gleaned from reviews etc)
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demidos View Post
    I've DMed a 3.5 game where each player was given the ability to make 3 "declarations", which was basically the ability to add a certain element to your backstory mid-game. You could declare that the BBEG was married to your estranged uncle, that the shopkeeper is in fact the member of a secret organization of which you are part, or that you had a detachment of paladins watching your back for the last several sessions that step into battle when you are suddenly on the verge of death.

    The players were expected to be mature with their declarations, things like "I solve the plot" would obviously be not allowed, but I told them that if there was any way I could reasonably allow it I would. I thought the concept was very neat as it allowed the players to act on their changing understanding of their characters through time, and made the backstory something more organic and interactive than a boring 3 page long essay about their early lives. It could also keep the other players (and DM!) on their toes without having to figure out some complex system of explaining your character without showing anyone your sheet, to preserve the surprise twists.

    What you call declaration is a staple in Theatrix called plot points. You need to get into the palace? One palace guard is an old mercenary buddy of yours, maybe you can persuade him to get you in.

    It is great for world building and adding or detracting from a scene and gets the players invested. Some players hate it, some love it.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by akma View Post
    Wow, seems like I have a lot of reading to do...

    Seems people have a different vision then me for this concept, I thought about it as a way to ease players into a complex game system or world, while the examples seem to be more focused on narrative or adding some "spice". I got this idea due to thoughts about organizing a Nobilis group, and realizing I'll need to explain things like Chancels and Imperators and defining the estate and how abstractly defined abilities work, and I thought about that if a player will misunderstand the feel of the world he'll probably create a very different character then what he would like to play. I guess one day I'll invent a game system / setting with such play-build system and use this thread as reference.
    In terms of how to introduce a complex game system or world, eh it varies. For game systems I have seen ones go 'if the group is just starting feel free to leave out element X for a session or two and then let players pick during play' (Fate Acclerated recommends this for Stunts). Although I'll note that many game systems these days are more complicated than they need to be if they use levels, giving players at least one new ability to keep track of every time they level up, a 20th level D&D 5e character will generally have somewhere in the realm of ten to fifteen abilities, which have in turn been strengthened by another ten abilities.

    In terms of setting, it's all about how you introduce it. You don't have to reveal it all at once, few GMs I know do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psikerlord View Post
    hahaha if that is true that is awesome
    In first edition a single failed survival roll when you went for another term killed your character, no backsies. Suiciding characters until you got decent stats was easy and common (just take 10+ terms as a Scout). In the current editions is harder, Mongoose Traveller has survival rolls cause a mishap by default.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    The Old World of Darkness had a mechanic for at least partial character creation during play; specifically in Vampire and Hunter, though you could kinda do it in Wraith, Demon and Werewolf too.

    The premise is that you create a baseline human and then in the first couple of sessions that your GM runs you through see you getting Embraced or Erupting in an organic manner, rather than just "the game starts, you're a vampire now", and you pick your Vampiric powers and bloodline through play.

    If you DM wants to put in a bit more time and effort into the process, you can play an entire campaign as a generic, barely developed Vampire and the plot is about discovering your true nature - what powers you have, who your Sire is, and how they develop over a period of time until you ultimately end the campaign with a "level 1" character who has an established background.
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    If it's not been mentioned yet, Mystic Empyrean from Level 99 Games. Powers are all tied to personality attributes, and the party basically "votes" on each others' traits after a session or during a break. So if your party members noticed your character was very boastful, they'll mark you down points in Boastful, which then translates to your character doubling in size and strength. If they mark you down as greedy, you'll gain the power to turn stuff into gold (or something like that).

    Basic stats are tied to those traits and powers.

    So, you can run the first part of a session--find a good breathing point, and have everybody suss out how each others' characters behaved in the situation. Bam, present their powers. I introduced at least a few players to the game that way, with their characters gaining their powers mid-session.

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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by RazorChain View Post
    What you call declaration is a staple in Theatrix called plot points. You need to get into the palace? One palace guard is an old mercenary buddy of yours, maybe you can persuade him to get you in.

    It is great for world building and adding or detracting from a scene and gets the players invested. Some players hate it, some love it.
    I think this is excellent and allow it as part of standard play in dnd etc. The PC background is a sentence when we start. During play it gets expanded on, and the history crystallizes. Yes, players will tend to create things that help them at first, but once facts have emerged, later additions will need to be consistent etc - all subject to GM veto
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psikerlord View Post
    I think this is excellent and allow it as part of standard play in dnd etc. The PC background is a sentence when we start. During play it gets expanded on, and the history crystallizes. Yes, players will tend to create things that help them at first, but once facts have emerged, later additions will need to be consistent etc - all subject to GM veto
    I use it still in my games even though it's over 20 years since I last played Theatrix

    Last session one player used it to start a rumour which kinda had nothing to do with anything. But now the barrel killer is feared through the city. One PC was moving a prisoner during night time with 4 city watchmen, of course he had split from the party. A lone arbalester, which the players have dubbed simply "the sniper", started shooting them down one by one at 100 yards from a sniping position. Nobody except the sniper were able to see in the dark. The poor PC was able to hide in an alley while the arbalester used sniper tactics by wounding the watchmen and when they tried to save a buddies they got shot and killed. In the end the PC dragged couple of the watchmen, who were severly wounded, and stashed them in barrels to hide them. The PC who is rather afraid of the dark decided to leg it and hid in a stable until the morning. When others arrived at the grisly scene they found two dead watchmen, who had bled to death, in barrels and the rumours of the barrel killer started. Another PC who is a face character decided to use the opportunity to use a plot point to spread the rumours of the barrel killer.

    "Go to bed or the barrel killer will take you" is now used to get children to bed

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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    ....In first edition a single failed survival roll when you went for another term killed your character, no backsies. Suiciding characters until you got decent stats was easy and common (just take 10+ terms as a Scout)....

    Heh.

    Even though (IIRC) other "Services" often had better skills, I liked "Scout" because if your PC re-enlisted enough (and survived), you could muster out with a starship.

    Your own freakin' STARSHIP!
    (Okay, so could "Merchant", but it took more years, and besides doesn't "Scout" sound cooler?).
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    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Quote Originally Posted by RazorChain View Post
    I use it still in my games even though it's over 20 years since I last played Theatrix

    Last session one player used it to start a rumour which kinda had nothing to do with anything. But now the barrel killer is feared through the city. One PC was moving a prisoner during night time with 4 city watchmen, of course he had split from the party. A lone arbalester, which the players have dubbed simply "the sniper", started shooting them down one by one at 100 yards from a sniping position. Nobody except the sniper were able to see in the dark. The poor PC was able to hide in an alley while the arbalester used sniper tactics by wounding the watchmen and when they tried to save a buddies they got shot and killed. In the end the PC dragged couple of the watchmen, who were severly wounded, and stashed them in barrels to hide them. The PC who is rather afraid of the dark decided to leg it and hid in a stable until the morning. When others arrived at the grisly scene they found two dead watchmen, who had bled to death, in barrels and the rumours of the barrel killer started. Another PC who is a face character decided to use the opportunity to use a plot point to spread the rumours of the barrel killer.

    "Go to bed or the barrel killer will take you" is now used to get children to bed
    hehe I love it
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  26. - Top - End - #56
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Are there RPGs where some of the character creation is partly done during play?

    Off of the Traveller thing, one thing I like to do is have a solo session (or small-group session for any players who want a backstory together) before the kickoff of the main game. This occurs one term before their character is "done", and instead of rolling that last term like usual the players and I sit down and decide based on what happened in said session what the finishing touches on their character should be. They get the chance to sharpen their best skills, shore up their newly discovered weaknessess, establish their characters' personalities and backstories, and all that, before the true game starts. And, in the spirit of Traveller, if you die here (I tried to avoid it, but sometimes you just can't weasel out of something), you have in fact died in character creation.
    Last edited by Milodiah; 2017-11-20 at 12:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Do not try a linear campaign, without some discussion with them. Players very often look at your hooks and then try to accomplish it in a different way, not touch it, try to do the complete opposite, or somehow set it on fire.

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