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    Default How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    I'm trying to imagine how the U.S. would deal with the emergence of the old ones and put together this scenario. The cosmic forces from the lovecraft mythos have turned out to be real. The higher echelons in governments around the world have known of their existence for some time, but have suppressed evidence of their existence. Once thought to have no interest in the machinations of humanity due to us being insignificant to them, these gods have recently become active in the world. Knowledge of their existence have become widespread. Cults have sprung up in devotion to these beings (nyralpothethep, the king in yellow, dagon, etc) with various purposes.

    Some of these cults claim to desire to save humanity, uplifting it to a higher form of being in devotion to the arrival of these beings. These people have physically and mentally mutated in noticeable ways, but remain passive and benign in society. Other groups are more aggressive, seeking to overthrow civilizations and bring about apocalyptic ends. These terrorists have occasionally summoned emissaries of the gods they serve, monsters from a different plane who have caused havoc around the world.

    Not only has the death toll increased, the population have become susceptible to mental instability, referred to as the "creeping madness". Simply laying eyes on these creatures is dangerous to the human psyche. The madness can be immediate or become evident over the course of months or years. A normal stay at home mother with no history of violence slowly loses her sanity and murder, cook, and eat her children. A 4 star general can snap and cause a mass shootout in a mall.

    The U.S. is struggling with how to preserve it's democratic institutions with the chaos going on. Calls for an authoritarian fascist state is on the rise. Voices in government are pushing for a more limited interpretation of the constitution. Matrial law has been considered. Pundits and other loud voices put the blame on various factors as scapegoats. The usual groups are blamed (blacks, jews, muslims, immigrants, etc) for being more susceptible than others, which has led to many groups and creeds being targeted for suppression by governmental forces and lone wolf "patriots".

    This is what I have so far. Feed back would be appreciated.

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    We already have ordinary citizens who commit mass-murder for no sane reason. This happens regularly.

    We already have celebrities who are famous for nothing but being frankly horrifying.

    We already have unsavory "science" cults which claim to illuminate.


    What would distinguish this world from the current USA?

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    This question has already been asked, and largely answered, by the novels of Charles Stross' Laundry Files novels, especially the recent entries The Annihilation Score and The Delirium Brief, albeit set in England - though there are considerable reference to events in the US (and aside from the general absence of personal use firearms, the UK is actually far more of a police state than the US is). I'd start there.
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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    What would distinguish this world from the current USA?
    More tentacles.

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    Texas, California-Nevada and maybe parts of the Pacific Northwest, Hawaii all secede during the Mayhem.

    Militias become popular.

    We have lots guns, our populace can arm itself and it's a fairly big country. I would bet on Division more than police state, but definitely pockets of police state.

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    Eh, if the entire Chaosium mythos becomes real at once and aggressive madness just commonly shows up out of nowhere, it seems to me that paranoia would be incredibly rampant. After all, no one can trust anyone anymore. Society would fall apart.

    But then, if we include some more Lovecraft in our Chaosium, we can just hope that Randolph Carter shows up and tells Nyarlathotep to stop being a **** again.
    ďItís honest. What our religion tells us, the part that is a religion, is that the gods created life to try and make meaning. Itís ultimately hopeless, and even gods die, but the effort is real. Will always have been real, even when everything is over and no one remembers.Ē
    -The Litany of Earth, Ruthanna Emrys

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharad9 View Post
    The U.S. is struggling with how to preserve it's democratic institutions with the chaos going on. Calls for an authoritarian fascist state is on the rise. Voices in government are pushing for a more limited interpretation of the constitution. Matrial law has been considered. Pundits and other loud voices put the blame on various factors as scapegoats. The usual groups are blamed (blacks, jews, muslims, immigrants, etc) for being more susceptible than others, which has led to many groups and creeds being targeted for suppression by governmental forces and lone wolf "patriots".

    This is what I have so far. Feed back would be appreciated.
    So...

    You're literally repeating the Daily News in America?

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm
    This may help, though it's set about 30 years earlier. It's also really good.
    ďItís honest. What our religion tells us, the part that is a religion, is that the gods created life to try and make meaning. Itís ultimately hopeless, and even gods die, but the effort is real. Will always have been real, even when everything is over and no one remembers.Ē
    -The Litany of Earth, Ruthanna Emrys

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    What would distinguish this world from the current USA?
    There will be a legitimate excuse for all this.

    Spoiler
    Show

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    Only thing you've missed out on is corporations trying to tap in to the phenomena in various ways. You'll see surges in different types of products catering to those who are effected, such as those mutated, and others that focus on exploiting the division. Still other corporations will attempt to use those people effected by the phenomena to exploit secrets, powers, glimpses into the future, et cetera.

    There would likely be a branch of government to deal with the change. The Fringe Division from the Alt-universe of the tv show Fringe is a good reference.

    The most interesting thing about this event in America would be highlighting the various different ways people will react to the changes. Martial Law imposed in NYC, but not in Austin. Hate crimes against the cultists in one state, hate crimes BY the cultists in another. East coast avoiding anything changing, west coast accepting the changes. Acceptance of the phenoms (possibly in Loa/voodoo context) gaining ground in Louisiana, surrounded on all sides by the Bible belt.

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    The question that your outlining I canít help but think it is too vague. You seem to think that they will re-enact some sort of Independence Day event on us, but I do not necessarily know that is true. The Great Old Ones are incredibly mysterious and there is much we do not know about them. I feel as if I am envisioning something different than you. May I ask some clarifying questions about what a Old One apocalypse would look like? If they are all a united force of strategic geniuses that simply crave our demise, than we have little hope to fight them. But there is a chance that some of the Old Ones will want to help us or will want to make alliances with The people of earth.

    Are the Old ones all united, or are they divided?: We do not know how well they work together as a group. When they come into earth will they all be a single force dedicated to the same cause, or will they fight amongst each-other? Will some of them have opposing goals which would pit them against one another? Will they get into land disputes and territory battles with each other? Will any of them be willing to make an alliance with the humans if they assist them in the defeating of a rival God? Are there factions of them fighting against each other?

    Are all the old ones all evil or do some of them have benevolent purposes?: They may be creepy and several of them have proven to be violent, but we do have definitive proof that they as a whole desire our destruction. Are some of them willing to help and assist us if they gain some benefit in return? Will some of Old Ones put value on human life and actually seek to protect it? Do they have any interest in furthering human goals and solving societial problems? If any of them are good, how many? Are most of them that claim to have benevolent goals hiding evil intentions and going to betray us at the end, or do they sincerely plan on carrying them out?

    What are the strategies used by the Old Ones?: How exactly do the Old Ones plan on overtaking earth? Are they directly manifesting in physical form to unleash Godzilla-like raids? Are they mostly sitting back and letting their cultists and representatives do all the work? Are they sending their armies after us and conquering land? Do the Old Ones sow discord and turmoil by stoking conflicts and manipulating us into killing each-other? Is there any any of them that seek to make alliances and deals with human societies to diplomatically gain power? Do all the different Old Ones have seperate strategies or are they all acting the same?

    Is the entire Lovecraft mythos getting involved or just the Old ones?: keep in mind that there are severel creatures in the mythos that are not Old Ones or even affiliated with them. There are creatures like the Cats of Ulthar, ghouls, the zoogs, gugs, night guants (basically anything mentioned in the Dream Quest of Uknown Kadath. Please no spoilers, I am in the process of reading it and have not finished). Are they partaking in the domination of earth of earth too or are the just sitting up in the dream-scape minding their own business? Several of these beings seem rather capable of making alliances with humans and may be provide essential assistance to us in the case of such an apocalypse.

    Are the Other outer Gods and the Old Ones working together?: Do the Other outer Gods wish to team up with the Old Ones and descend upon earth, or are they mostly staying out of it? Are they okay with the Old Ones doing this invasion campaign or do do the Other Gods condemn their actions? Are they as just as big as a problem as the Old Ones are? For the sake of the theory, are we lumping the Other outer Gods in with the Old Ones for the sake of simplicity?

    Hopefully some of these questions can hope to stimulate our thinking on this matter. After all, the Great Old Ones were rather mysterious and strange so it is hard to assume what there actions are like. You have detailed many of the societal effects of their involvement, but you have not gone into detail about what precisely the Old Ones are doing to cause this . Sorry if this seems overly critical, but I think we need a more clearly defined problem to properly decide.
    Last edited by Requilac; 2017-11-10 at 02:33 PM. Reason: I was accidently calling what I meant to describe as the Outer gods as Other Gods. Sorry about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Potato_Priest View Post
    Why do the protagonists care?

    They represent a union, and undead fuel-less war forged manual labor is a threat to their constituents' livelihoods.
    My homebrew...

    The abberation: fighter archetype (completed final draft)

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    In the original lovecraft stories, humans frequently get away more or less unscathed or even pull off what could be called wins against various mythos creatures. Of course, the top tier creatures like the gods only feature rarely (Cthulhu doesn't really rate all that far up there), but Nyarlathotep does admit defeat. And they are not remotely united.

    That would make for a more interesting setting, anyway. Where different groups of humans live under the rule of different alien gods and fight each other. The Carcosan Imperial Dynasty of America with their fascism disguised as Utopia. Cthulhu's realm of murderous madness and unsettling art at the fringes of civilization. Nyarlathotep's technocracy. Ancient and immortal deep ones ruling fantastical underwater palaces of gold and coral. Dyonisian fertility cults reclaiming Rome and Greece in the name of the Magna Mater. Grotesquely mutated sorcerer-kings.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2017-11-10 at 02:54 PM.
    ďItís honest. What our religion tells us, the part that is a religion, is that the gods created life to try and make meaning. Itís ultimately hopeless, and even gods die, but the effort is real. Will always have been real, even when everything is over and no one remembers.Ē
    -The Litany of Earth, Ruthanna Emrys

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    That would make for a more interesting setting, anyway. Where different groups of humans live under the rule of different alien gods and fight each other. The Carcosan Imperial Dynasty of America with their fascism disguised as Utopia. Cthulhu's realm of murderous madness and unsettling art at the fringes of civilization. Nyarlathotep's technocracy. Ancient and immortal deep ones ruling fantastical underwater palaces of gold and coral. Dyonisian fertility cults reclaiming Rome and Greece in the name of the Magna Mater. Grotesquely mutated sorcerer-kings.
    If I am to be completely honest, that is exactly what I thought it would look like if the Old Ones were to conquer earth. Thatís why I was so surprised when it sounded like the OP was describing some kind of Alien Apocalypse while I was imagining something closer to an incredibly strange fantasy version of Singularity. Instead of it being robots that brought about the change though, itís a crew of insane gods that crawled out of Sigmund Freud's nightmares.
    Quote Originally Posted by Potato_Priest View Post
    Why do the protagonists care?

    They represent a union, and undead fuel-less war forged manual labor is a threat to their constituents' livelihoods.
    My homebrew...

    The abberation: fighter archetype (completed final draft)

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    In the original lovecraft stories, humans frequently get away more or less unscathed or even pull off what could be called wins against various mythos creatures. Of course, the top tier creatures like the gods only feature rarely (Cthulhu doesn't really rate all that far up there), but Nyarlathotep does admit defeat. And they are not remotely united.

    That would make for a more interesting setting, anyway. Where different groups of humans live under the rule of different alien gods and fight each other. The Carcosan Imperial Dynasty of America with their fascism disguised as Utopia. Cthulhu's realm of murderous madness and unsettling art at the fringes of civilization. Nyarlathotep's technocracy. Ancient and immortal deep ones ruling fantastical underwater palaces of gold and coral. Dyonisian fertility cults reclaiming Rome and Greece in the name of the Magna Mater. Grotesquely mutated sorcerer-kings.
    So different countries on earth serving or being conquered by different gods? And these nations being at war with each other? And these humans evolving or devolving into different species of homogenization sapiens because of this?

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    Probably more by the cults themselves, rather than the gods. I mean, there's never been much evidence that the old ones or other gods would do much to people. Cthulhu waking up only minimally affected a handful of people, which may or may not be due to the fact that the stars were not right.

    Mutations also probably wouldn't be that common. The Deep Ones, sure. Those directly touched by Yog-Sothoth like the Whateleys, sures. The rest? None of Nyarlathotep's mad dancers or slaves looked unusual. Neither did anyone affected by The King in Yellow in Repairer of Reputations. Pickman turned into a ghoul or may have been one all the time, but the ghouls are really generally quite nice and friendly. Charles Dexter Ward's sorcerous ancestor Curwen looked normal enough that he could convince people that he was Ward. If you leave out the racism, Cthulhu's cultists look pretty normal, they are just into crucifiction and orgies.

    The thing is, pretty much nothing is known about the gods in Lovecraft itself. You can make up whatever effects you want them to have. If you want to write a post-apocalyptic setting where society has fallen into bands of nomads and Cthulhu-crazed cannibal raiders, go ahead. I find the idea of body-switching sorcerer kings and cultist-nations a bit more interesting, so I was just throwing out a few other ideas.

    Humanity may actually be quite effective against the lower rungs of the mythos ladder. Innsmouth was raided by the FBI and their coral reef lairs levelled with dynamite. I remember at least one story where the protagonist brings a flamethrower to bear against a ghost manifestation. The occasional evil human inbred from centuries of isolation is easily dispatched with a gun.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2017-11-11 at 11:14 AM.
    ďItís honest. What our religion tells us, the part that is a religion, is that the gods created life to try and make meaning. Itís ultimately hopeless, and even gods die, but the effort is real. Will always have been real, even when everything is over and no one remembers.Ē
    -The Litany of Earth, Ruthanna Emrys

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Probably more by the cults themselves, rather than the gods. I mean, there's never been much evidence that the old ones or other gods would do much to people. Cthulhu waking up only minimally affected a handful of people, which may or may not be due to the fact that the stars were not right.
    That was always my interpretation too. To me it seems like the Old Ones have better things to do than mess with earth so they let the cultists do most of the work for them. I am willing to bet half of them donít even know they have worshippers until suddenly they are being awakened by a bunch of strange little, somewhat squishy, monkey-like creatures standing next to beheaded goats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Mutations also probably wouldn't be that common. The Deep Ones, sure. Those directly touched by Yog-Sothoth like the Whateleys, sures. The rest? None of Nyarlathotep's mad dancers or slaves looked unusual. Neither did anyone affected by The King in Yellow in Repairer of Reputations. Pickman turned into a ghoul or may have been one all the time, but the ghouls are really generally quite nice and friendly. Charles Dexter Ward's sorcerous ancestor Curwen looked normal enough that he could convince people that he was Ward. If you leave out the racism, Cthulhu's cultists look pretty normal, they are just into crucifiction and orgies.
    I do not really think Pickman counts as he never really had any involvement with the Old Ones, he was just painting in his basement with a bunch of (oddly sweet) humanoid rat like creatures that hang around graves too much. And keep in mind that the For Deep Ones it took several decades of contact with Dagon to actually turn fully fish-form, if IIRC from the shadow over innsmouth. And even the Whateleys were not so deformed as to be incapable of fitting into society properly. People were disgusted by them for sure, but they never tried to run lynch mobs against them like you seem to be suggesting. I have to agree with Elian on this one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    The thing is, pretty much nothing is known about the gods in Lovecraft itself. You can make up whatever effects you want them to have. If you want to write a post-apocalyptic setting where society has fallen into bands of nomads and Cthulhu-crazed cannibal raiders, go ahead. I find the idea of body-switching sorcerer kings and cultist-nations a bit more interesting, so I was just throwing out a few other ideas.
    That is why I posed some of my questions, as the Great Old Ones are not clearly understood enough yet (as befit for their nature) to make a good guess on their behavior where they go enter Earth. I was imagining some kind of new era being created in which the Disciples of the Old Ones rule but the OP seemed to be describing some sort of societal apocalypse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Humanity may actually be quite effective against the lower rungs of the mythos ladder. Innsmouth was raided by the FBI and their coral reef lairs levelled with dynamite. I remember at least one story where the protagonist brings a flamethrower to bear against a ghost manifestation. The occasional evil human inbred from centuries of isolation is easily dispatched with a gun.
    The cultists and wizard were not very tough either. Cthulhuís cult was shut down by a police raid of people who were actually rather terrified. The cult did not really even put up much resistance, I think they surrendered. Curwenís fortress was successfully (depending on what you consider ďsuccessĒ) by a militia of like sixty untrained citizens. The cats of Ulthar totally wrecked Nyarlotheteps Troops who imprisoned Carter, and their cats for crying out loud even if they are magical. Even the spawn of the Great Old oneís themselves were not that powerful. Didnít three people with a magical perfume horn defeat the spawn of Yog-Shothoth in the Dunwich horror by doing some alien version of The Chacha Slide .
    Last edited by Requilac; 2017-11-11 at 12:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Potato_Priest View Post
    Why do the protagonists care?

    They represent a union, and undead fuel-less war forged manual labor is a threat to their constituents' livelihoods.
    My homebrew...

    The abberation: fighter archetype (completed final draft)

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    That's the thing, yes. I mean, for most of the gods, we don't even have reliable evidence they exist. Nyarlathotep shows up in person. Cthulhu wakes up for a bit, but we only have one sailor's shaky testimony, plus a few stories from cultists where we don't have any idea if any of it is true or where they got it from.

    Also, point of order, the moon beasts and their slaves are probably not directly slaves of Nyarlathotep as afraid of him and trying to appease him by handing Carter over. At least that's the impression I got. And the Cats seem heavily implied to me to be all cats, not just those of Ulthar. They mention being able to move to Earth and sometimes living there, in addition to occasionally making trips to the moon on bright nights. And they are a very well organized army, with generals and drills.

    Also, Grrrrg, must... not... spoil... you just mentioned something that... nah. Sorry. You'll find out.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2017-11-11 at 06:32 PM.
    ďItís honest. What our religion tells us, the part that is a religion, is that the gods created life to try and make meaning. Itís ultimately hopeless, and even gods die, but the effort is real. Will always have been real, even when everything is over and no one remembers.Ē
    -The Litany of Earth, Ruthanna Emrys

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Also, point of order, the moon beasts and their slaves are probably not directly slaves of Nyarlathotep as afraid of him and trying to appease him by handing Carter over. At least that's the impression I got.
    I suppose that is entirely possible, but I believe they were direct servants to the Outer Gods. The main reason I thought that is because the moon-beasts mimic an eerie piping cacophony, which is pretty similar to the noise Azathoth allegedly makes, so I supposed they were pretty closely tied to the Outer Gods. That is not very solid evidence in retrospect though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    And the Cats seem heavily implied to me to be all cats, not just those of Ulthar. They mention being able to move to Earth and sometimes living there, in addition to occasionally making trips to the moon on bright nights. And they are a very well organized army, with generals and drills.
    Yes, I know why they were able to succeed against the moon-beasts, because of their overwhelming numbers and strict regiments but that is why I asked the OP if they were included. If the Cats of Ulthar were taking place in the Old One invasion then they would probably gladly ally with America and prove to be a rather devastating force against the lesser aliens and their cults. If all the creatures from the Dream-world were involved than suddenly humanities chances of success are massively increased. America could implement Ghoul skirmishers, deploy swarms of Cats and enforce the Air Force with Night Gaunts. Wow, Sharad I am very thankful towards you for making this thread, because I have several great ideas to build the best Heavy Metal Album Cover in the history of the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Also, Grrrrg, must... not... spoil... you just mentioned something that... nah. Sorry. You'll find out.
    No need to apologize, I thank you for not spoiling anything. Do not feel too bad about that Eldan.



    Sorry if i am accidently de-railing the thread Sharad, that it is not my intention at all. You have posed a rather interesting question that has stimulated some great conversations. I hope that my questions and comments have helped you better build your world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Potato_Priest View Post
    Why do the protagonists care?

    They represent a union, and undead fuel-less war forged manual labor is a threat to their constituents' livelihoods.
    My homebrew...

    The abberation: fighter archetype (completed final draft)

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    Default Re: How America would deal with the emergence of the old ones from lovecraft

    Plus we could probably engage in diplomacy with some of the aliens, like the elders or ythians.
    ďItís honest. What our religion tells us, the part that is a religion, is that the gods created life to try and make meaning. Itís ultimately hopeless, and even gods die, but the effort is real. Will always have been real, even when everything is over and no one remembers.Ē
    -The Litany of Earth, Ruthanna Emrys

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