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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Worm 2 is on the way

    Wildbow has a series of prelude chapters (PHO interludes/chats/PMs) posted:
    https://parahumans.wordpress.com/201.../glowworm-p-1/

    Chapter 1 should go live on Saturday as a link in the last prelude.

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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Yupyupyup.

    The prelude chapters have already been very intriguing. Coming off of Twig (easily Wildbow's best story so far) I'm VERY interested to see what Worm 2 incorporates of the things he's learned about writing and narrative over the years.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Yupyupyup.

    The prelude chapters have already been very intriguing. Coming off of Twig (easily Wildbow's best story so far) I'm VERY interested to see what Worm 2 incorporates of the things he's learned about writing and narrative over the years.
    I couldn't get into Twig, because children. But I've got high hopes for Worm 2. Though I was kinda hoping he'd clean up Worm first.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Maybe I'll have to give Twig another look. I read three or four chapters and found it quite uninteresting.
    “It’s honest. What our religion tells us, the part that is a religion, is that the gods created life to try and make meaning. It’s ultimately hopeless, and even gods die, but the effort is real. Will always have been real, even when everything is over and no one remembers.”
    -The Litany of Earth, Ruthanna Emrys

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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I couldn't get into Twig, because children. But I've got high hopes for Worm 2. Though I was kinda hoping he'd clean up Worm first.
    I mean, the protagonists of Worm are children too. And only 2-3 years older than the Twig protags in some cases. Plus the story takes place over a pretty long period of time (quite a few years), and not in the same way Worm does (just skipping ahead a massive amount of time toward the end)

    I cannot recommend Twig enough. Wildbow stepped out of his comfort zone (specifically) to try and provide a more character driven story and he does an excellent job. The Lambs are the most complex, emotionally and motivationally, characters he's ever written. Even some of the relatively short-lived side characters have as much depth or more as many of the Undersiders.

    Sylvester is currently a top contender for favorite characters in any work of fiction I've ever read.

    The story has its stumbling blocks (as every Wildbow story does as real life intrudes and the writing falls down a bit for an arc or two) but even its lowest point is still better than the average Pact arc. The main gripes I could see about it is it's slow to start, the worldbuilding is very vague in the first couple of arcs, and (as always) the combat scenes can be very...unclear as to what's going on, but once it builds up some steam it just gets better and better with every passing chapter barring a very few exceptions.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    I'm reading twig now, up through arc 3 now.

    The viewpoint character is a more deliberate Miles Vorkosigan who's immune to poison, and his teammates are a genetically engineered Ivan vorpatril with a brain, a still growing Stepford Wife pod person assassin, and a bookworm with perfect memory. Plus the "normal person" who's their medic.

    In my view, this is an awesome combination. I'll start on Worm2 once I've caught up on twig, which could be awhile.

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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    I mean, the protagonists of Worm are children too. And only 2-3 years older than the Twig protags in some cases. Plus the story takes place over a pretty long period of time (quite a few years), and not in the same way Worm does (just skipping ahead a massive amount of time toward the end)

    I cannot recommend Twig enough. Wildbow stepped out of his comfort zone (specifically) to try and provide a more character driven story and he does an excellent job. The Lambs are the most complex, emotionally and motivationally, characters he's ever written. Even some of the relatively short-lived side characters have as much depth or more as many of the Undersiders.

    Sylvester is currently a top contender for favorite characters in any work of fiction I've ever read.

    The story has its stumbling blocks (as every Wildbow story does as real life intrudes and the writing falls down a bit for an arc or two) but even its lowest point is still better than the average Pact arc. The main gripes I could see about it is it's slow to start, the worldbuilding is very vague in the first couple of arcs, and (as always) the combat scenes can be very...unclear as to what's going on, but once it builds up some steam it just gets better and better with every passing chapter barring a very few exceptions.
    They felt younger. *shrug*

    I can't remember how long I stuck with it, so maybe I'll give it another try.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    I somehow managed to stick all the way through Pact, but regret it. I dropped Twig around chapter 20 or so. There was some kind of lockdown and horror-show people-zombie-things in a big underground area. It looked like it was just going to be more/too much grimdark.

    Despite "And things get worse," Worm still had hope in it. Pact was hopeless, the drawn-out destruction of a doomed man living in a "burn it with fire" world, and Twig looked like it was going to be similarly dark as well.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by J-H View Post
    I somehow managed to stick all the way through Pact, but regret it. I dropped Twig around chapter 20 or so. There was some kind of lockdown and horror-show people-zombie-things in a big underground area. It looked like it was just going to be more/too much grimdark.

    Despite "And things get worse," Worm still had hope in it. Pact was hopeless, the drawn-out destruction of a doomed man living in a "burn it with fire" world, and Twig looked like it was going to be similarly dark as well.
    You forgot that the protagonists are just as much monsters as anything else down there. (except normal-girl) That arc was an interesting twist on what you thought it would be.

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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by J-H View Post
    I somehow managed to stick all the way through Pact, but regret it. I dropped Twig around chapter 20 or so. There was some kind of lockdown and horror-show people-zombie-things in a big underground area. It looked like it was just going to be more/too much grimdark.

    Despite "And things get worse," Worm still had hope in it. Pact was hopeless, the drawn-out destruction of a doomed man living in a "burn it with fire" world, and Twig looked like it was going to be similarly dark as well.
    It's kinda funny, while there's some dark **** in Twig, it has overall a much more hopeful tone and ending than any of the other two stories. It is very much a story of triumphing through adversity, though much is sacrificed along the way.

    Twig is never "grimdark", it doesn't revel in darkness and evil and fetishize it like that word implies. It's just a ****ed up universe full of ****ed up people trying to do the best they can to make the world a better place and succeeding in small and large ways along the way.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    I can't wait for Saturday! Wildbow has improved tremendously as a writer over the years, but to me there's no doubt that Worm is his best 'verse.
    Truth resists simplicity.

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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    The Ninth prolog chapter won me a months-long argument.

    Honestly, I'm probably going to be binging chapters of this every couple of months unless something major to catch my eye happens.

    I'm kind of hoping that Riley has a significant role at some point because she's my favorite character in the original.

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    I've kind of got a bet going on another forum that our new Protagonist will die eight arcs in and be replaced by Taylor, incredibly pissed that she has to do this stuff again, coming back into the spotlight.

    Partially as a call back to Wildbow literally rolling dice to determine if Taylor lived or died in the eighth arc of Worm and partially becuase Wildbow is kind of a troll and it'd be the ultimate troll move.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    The Ninth prolog chapter won me a months-long argument.

    Honestly, I'm probably going to be binging chapters of this every couple of months unless something major to catch my eye happens.

    I'm kind of hoping that Riley has a significant role at some point because she's my favorite character in the original.

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    I've kind of got a bet going on another forum that our new Protagonist will die eight arcs in and be replaced by Taylor, incredibly pissed that she has to do this stuff again, coming back into the spotlight.

    Partially as a call back to Wildbow literally rolling dice to determine if Taylor lived or died in the eighth arc of Worm and partially becuase Wildbow is kind of a troll and it'd be the ultimate troll move.
    What was the argument out of curiosity?


    Which way are you betting? Cause I'll take that bet.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    What was the argument out of curiosity?
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    A few months ago I argued that, while her pranks were juvenile in comparison, Madison Clemments was arguably the worst of the trio on the grounds that she doesn't really have a reason for bullying Taylor.

    And then low and behold, in the sequel Madison herself out and stats that she (was at the time) just a horrible person who didn't have a reason for being such a bitch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Which way are you betting? Cause I'll take that bet.
    that it will happen. It's not a serious bet, but you can bet that if it happens I'll be rubbing it in people's faces that I called it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Count me among those who recommend reading Twig.

    And after the Prologue-arc I'm really hyped for Worm 2 now.
    So much interesting stuff that was hinted at...
    I wonder how much of it will come up in the story.

    Also, Sveta and Weld are still around.Yay.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    I don't read through the comment chains (too long). We've got Madison, Weld, Sveta, and probably either Laserdream or Glory Girl.
    Anyone else identified?
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Well, first chapters out.
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    And I'm kind of disapointed that Vickey is our MC.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Well, first chapters out.
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    And I'm kind of disapointed that Vickey is our MC.
    Spoiler
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    Why? Personally I find the idea of looking at things from her new perspective after the events of the first story fascinating. I'm also interested in seeing if WB is going to go even father outside of his comfort zone then he did with Twig by writing a protagonist who is actually good in a fight by keeping some or all of her powers.

    Also it's likely we may be seeing something with a wider range of viewpoints so no need to worry to much yet.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
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    Why? Personally I find the idea of looking at things from her new perspective after the events of the first story fascinating. I'm also interested in seeing if WB is going to go even father outside of his comfort zone then he did with Twig by writing a protagonist who is actually good in a fight by keeping some or all of her powers.

    Also it's likely we may be seeing something with a wider range of viewpoints so no need to worry to much yet.
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    Becuase it means that Amy is probably going to factor heavily in the story, and Amy is plot-cancer what with her power that half the fanbase insists invalidates a good number of the heavy hitters in the setting.

    And unless it gets revealed that Riley did the Dallons a solid to make up for what she did during Amy's interlude, Amy would have had to have somehow gotten her shard to stop being a jackass for Vickey to not be a Shoggoth.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Well, this should be fun.
    So many open questions already...
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Spoiler: Chapter 1.1
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    Well I'm more curious how Victoria stopped being a messed up monster. I don't mind her as a MC, and I honestly thought you'd be happy Rater. Because if Amy is involved, I imagine Riley will be too.

    Though I get the feeling that Wildbow might change it up and make every one in the group a point of view character.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Spoiler: Chapter 1.1
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    Well I'm more curious how Victoria stopped being a messed up monster. I don't mind her as a MC, and I honestly thought you'd be happy Rater. Because if Amy is involved, I imagine Riley will be too.

    Though I get the feeling that Wildbow might change it up and make everyone in the group a point of view character.
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    Let's just say that Amy's incessant fans and all the power-wanking they've done for her already plot-cancer powers have killed whatever sympathy I may have had for her character.

    Also... She violated the Hippocratic oath in the chapter where she claimed to have taken it and is kind of an idiot(Protip, if bankrobber hasa knife to your throat, don't threaten to use your super-powers to mutilate them if you can't actually use your powers on that specific individual.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
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    Where my other
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
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    Let's just say that Amy's incessant fans and all the power-wanking they've done for her already plot-cancer powers have killed whatever sympathy I may have had for her character.

    Also... She violated the Hippocratic oath in the chapter where she claimed to have taken it and is kind of an idiot(Protip, if bankrobber hasa knife to your throat, don't threaten to use your super-powers to mutilate them if you can't actually use your powers on that specific individual.)
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    I'm usually pretty good about keeping fans separate from the thing they are fans about.

    But yeah, I do feel bad for Amy. More then any other character, I feel like she was basically a child soldier. She was used and abused for her power while the other heroes actually got support, attention, and money. While she was almost forced to deal with horribly wounded people every day, basically by herself, for free.

    She wasn't all that old, so I don't think you could say the Oath applied to her anyways. But yeah, she was kinda an idiot. Her worst idiocy moment in my mind has to be not trusting the people currently saving you from the SH9.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
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    I'm usually pretty good about keeping fans separate from the thing they are fans about.

    But yeah, I do feel bad for Amy. More then any other character, I feel like she was basically a child soldier. She was used and abused for her power while the other heroes actually got support, attention, and money. While she was almost forced to deal with horribly wounded people every day, basically by herself, for free.

    She wasn't all that old, so I don't think you could say the Oath applied to her anyways. But yeah, she was kinda an idiot. Her worst idiocy moment in my mind has to be not trusting the people currently saving you from the SH9.
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    I disagree. The most child soldier character was Riley(fighting a War of Violent Anarchistic Nihilism* at the best of her serial killer foster-father, but a war none the less.)

    Bonesaw is textbook cult indoctrination via psychological manipulation and emotional abuse(Though her Shard's conflict drive and the young age a which she triggered, 4-6 by my math, can't possibly have helped.)

    *People compare Jack Slash to the Joker a lot, but personally I think he's a bit closer to Carnage(He and a Clone of Carnage are bros in one of my Worm Crossover Fanfiction.)
    Last edited by Rater202; 2017-11-12 at 12:22 AM.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
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    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
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    I disagree. The most child soldier character was Riley(fighting a War of Violent Anarchistic Nihilism* at the best of her serial killer foster-father, but a war none the less.)

    Bonesaw is textbook cult indoctrination via psychological manipulation and emotional abuse(Though her Shard's conflict drive and the young age a which she triggered, 4-6 by my math, can't possibly have helped.)

    *People compare Jack Slash to the Joker a lot, but personally I think he's a bit closer to Carnage(He and a Clone of Carnage are bros in one of my Worm Crossover Fanfiction.)
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    Could be. I felt that was more of being sucked into a cult. They are very similar though, so maybe I'm just splitting hairs. Regardless of most though, I'm still sympathetic to Amy, while really wanting to slap her upside the head.
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Spoiler: Daybreak 1.2
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    Well, isn't this situation just great?
    I'm sure everything will be resolved peacefully and nobody will get hurt.
    No. Wait.
    That's a lie.
    I mean the exact opposite. We're talking about Wildbow there.

    The only question is how many of Victoria's teammates will side with the mob.
    I guess at least Jester should be on her side.
    But four or five parahumans, a few cops and a handful of soldiers against a veritable tidal wave of angry people doesn't look good even if they're all loyal.

    But the new Capes are interesting.
    Crystalclear seems to be a Case 53 or at least a Cauldron parahuman- maybe from Gold Morning?- and claws guy is either the same or a Tinker...

    Wait a moment!
    Could those be the guys from the Glow-Worm arc?
    Or not. I think Sveta was involved with them.
    But the Claw might be connected to the Cluster Trigger.
    At the very least their chapter seems relevant there.


    Edit: Looking at the (two) arc names so far, I guess we get a light-theme for this story?
    Would fit the whole „Dawn of a new worlds thing.”

    As does the golden cityscape.
    Although that one still feels kinda „distasteful”/„wrong” to me, considering the end of Worm.
    Seems to me as if seeing everything shine gold every day isn't conductive to closing all those wounds that those events caused.
    Last edited by Kantaki; 2017-11-14 at 06:08 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    Spoiler: Daybreak 1.2
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    Well, isn't this situation just great?
    I'm sure everything will be resolved peacefully and nobody will get hurt.
    No. Wait.
    That's a lie.
    I mean the exact opposite. We're talking about Wildbow there.

    The only question is how many of Victoria's teammates will side with the mob.
    I guess at least Jester should be on her side.
    But four or five parahumans, a few cops and a handful of soldiers against a veritable tidal wave of angry people doesn't look good even if they're all loyal.

    But the new Capes are interesting.
    Crystalclear seems to be a Case 53 or at least a Cauldron parahuman- maybe from Gold Morning?- and claws guy is either the same or a Tinker...

    Wait a moment!
    Could those be the guys from the Glow-Worm arc?
    Or not. I think Sveta was involved with them.
    But the Claw might be connected to the Cluster Trigger.
    At the very least their chapter seems relevant there.


    Edit: Looking at the (two) arc names so far, I guess we get a light-theme for this story?
    Would fit the whole „Dawn of a new worlds thing.”

    As does the golden cityscape.
    Although that one still feels kinda „distasteful”/„wrong” to me, considering the end of Worm.
    Seems to me as if seeing everything shine gold every day isn't conductive to closing all those wounds that those events caused.
    Spoiler: Daybreak
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    I had a funny thought. What if this Victoria was from another dimension and isn't actually a cape? I mean, the weight of the gear should be nothing to Glory Girl. But it's a factor for Victoria.


    The golden cityscape did make me facepalm. But I suppose a lot of people don't actually know Scion was responsible. Scion hit too hard and too fast for people to realize what was doing the damage. It was only the Capes who fought him and walked away. And none of them are talking about it.
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    I don't care about RAW. I only care about RAI (Rules as Interpreted/Intended), RACS (Rules as Common Sense) and RAF (Rules as Fun).

    Please don't bother to respond to me if all you want to talk about is RAW.

  28. - Top - End - #28
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Spoiler: Daybreak
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    I had a funny thought. What if this Victoria was from another dimension and isn't actually a cape? I mean, the weight of the gear should be nothing to Glory Girl. But it's a factor for Victoria.


    The golden cityscape did make me facepalm. But I suppose a lot of people don't actually know Scion was responsible. Scion hit too hard and too fast for people to realize what was doing the damage. It was only the Capes who fought him and walked away. And none of them are talking about it.
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    I don't think the events that led to the birth of Victoria Dallon would have happened in any other world.

    I mean, I don't think Mark and Carol would have met if it weren't for the Brockton Bay Brigade.

    We know that it's possible to depower a cape or alter her powers. It's possible that whatever was used to make Vickey not be a shoggoth anymore resulted in the loss or reduction of her power.

    (I mean, at beare minimum for her to be able to walk again would require a significant portion of her brain to be rewired. Corona could have been fried.)

    Alternatively, if her strength is a fuction of her forcefield... Glory Girl was at Golden Morning and somehow faught(Under Khepri's controll.)

    Her shield will always block one attack, so even an attack strong enough to bring it down won't hurt her if it's one continues attack. Wildbow stated that she'd be able to tank Scion's "Golden ****-off Beam," the one that's a fuction of his power nullifying wavelength stilling and kills basically anything that it hits, but that her shield would be down for a long, long time afterward.

    Maybe that happened and it's still down?
    Last edited by Rater202; 2017-11-14 at 10:57 PM.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
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  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Default Re: Worm 2 is on the way

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    The most likely candidates for restoring Victoria would be Amy or Bonesaw, either of which would be capable of de-powering her, intentionally or otherwise (Contessa did it with a bullet after all).

    My guess is Amy. Intentionally de-powering Victoria seems like an odd choice unless she specifically requested it, which she might have if she wanted to get away from Cape Stuff. That said, she's seeking out cape-stuff info and doing a cape-stuff job, so that seems unlikely.

    Alternatively, her powers could still be recharging from the GM. I'm not sure how much I like that answer though, that sounds like WildBow just has a convenient button he can push to switch from Unpowered to Super-Powered mode.

    OR, plot twist, she's actually Amy Dallon, having died her hair and taken her sister's name for some bizzare reason. That doesn't fit with a lot of the stuff "Victoria" has been saying about being aware of her body.


    My personal theory is that Victoria DOES have her powers, but she's not using them. Specifically, she hates the idea of using her Charisma Aura, between what that did to Amy (and the consequences that led into), and the experience of being controlled by Kheprii, she's rightfully disgusted by the thought of using any sort of mental manipulation power. By suppressing her Aura, she's also suppressing her force field, with the associated flight and superstrength it provides, giving no ground to her Passenger.
    Potentially, she had Amy depower her post-GM, if it's not so much Cape Stuff she wants to avoid, but her specific powerset.


    As for the golden cityscape, it sounds like that's just a side-effect of using a lot of solar glass, which makes a lot of sense for this new megalopolis assuming they were able to get the infrastructure to mass-produce the stuff.
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    Spoiler: Regarding something from the first full chapter
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    If Applehood or whatever she's going by was associated with Blasto... and they specifically mentioned Blasto being taken out by the nine.

    I want to see an awkward conversation between her and Riley now.

    "I'm really sorry about that whole 'murdering your boyfriend in horrific fashion' thing... You know, surprisingly, this is the first time I've had to say that."
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
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    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

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