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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Do you need a plan beyond being massively OP on your home soil? Plus, the entire war is on his soil
    Are you caught up on the series?

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    Because as soon as he looses that advantage he basically just rolls over to die.

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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacewolf View Post
    Are you caught up on the series?

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    Because as soon as he looses that advantage he basically just rolls over to die.
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    I did finish it yes, and i do know that he loses that boost when he enters the hanging garden. Im honestly amazed he loses that much power once he leaves, cuz holy crap did he get nailed with the nerf bat. Which is shocking as hes a very high rank Lancer right up there with Karna, but its like he suddenly got weaker than Diarmund.
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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
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    I did finish it yes, and i do know that he loses that boost when he enters the hanging garden. Im honestly amazed he loses that much power once he leaves, cuz holy crap did he get nailed with the nerf bat. Which is shocking as hes a very high rank Lancer right up there with Karna, but its like he suddenly got weaker than Diarmund.
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    Finish it? Isn't it still ongoing?

    I suppose it could be down to being on the Hanging Gardens counting as an invading action which goes against his legend as a defending hero meaning he gets a big hit to his abilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacewolf View Post
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    Finish it? Isn't it still ongoing?

    I suppose it could be down to being on the Hanging Gardens counting as an invading action which goes against his legend as a defending hero meaning he gets a big hit to his abilities.
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    I mean finish as in the context of me having watched all the English episodes.

    Also that has to be it, cuz he suddenly became the weakest Servant on the field.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacewolf View Post
    What was Vlads plan apart from being massively OP while on home soil?
    To wear Karna out until the point he either needs to retreat, and Vlad can clean up the Red Faction, or Karna's master dies from Karna's ridiculous mana cost and thus defeats Karna as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
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    I mean finish as in the context of me having watched all the English episodes.

    Also that has to be it, cuz he suddenly became the weakest Servant on the field.
    Spoiler: Vlad
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    Vlad suffers from a few problems in the War that you don't really see up until his demise.

    1. He has a frankly OBSCENE bonus to his power because he was summoned practically a stone's throw from his actual castle and the sheer adoration the people have for him.

    2. His Demonic Defender of the State ability gives him ANOTHER big boost so long as he is within his kingdom.

    With a combination of those two buffs, Vlad is a massively powerful Servant with a dangerous NP that according to other materials could match up to Artoria summoned in Britain or Heracles summoned in Greece. Its what makes him one of the most powerful servants in the Black Faction and deservedly so, when Darnic says they can't lose the war so long as Vlad is on the field he's not exaggerating by very much. Darnic isn't taking into account the servants the Red Faction has summoned (like Rider of Red and Karna) but he's still righti n the sense that Vlad is a big trump card. However this all leads to fact number three...

    3. Vlad going to the Hanging Gardens to lead the Black Faction on to claim the Greater Grail deprived him of BOTH of those buffs at the same time and Vlad didn't realize cause both are passive skills and he assumed the Gardens would still count as his territory when they very much don't.

    Vlad, without those buffs, is a decent servant but really only comes into his own when he uses Legend of Dracula Noble Phantasm, which he hates. And Karna is so ridiculously powerful that its an honest question about who would win a fight between him and Gilgamesh. So in other words, we see Vlad at his absolute best without using Legend of Dracula fighting for the majority of Part One when in reality he's around the same level as the rest of his faction (minus Siegfried). Mostly because when he DOES use Legend of Dracula, as we see, he's capable of fighting five other Servants at the same time and not be blatantly losing which is damn impressive!

    He seems like the weakest servant on the field after going to the Gardens (he's not, but that's beside the point) but the fact is you just get a false impression of his 'normal' strength for all of Part One.
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    As someone who just watched this on Netflix without having any context about the other Fate series (only became aware that this was part of an ongoing continuity when I went to google things), I must say this felt a bit incoherent.

    Part of that is obviously that I am missing a lot of background knowledge, but it also seems like developing 30-ish characters (7 masters + 7 servants on each side + Sieg and Jeanne d'Arc) in 12 episodes was maybe a bit much.

    Regardless, I liked the fighting scenes and the mythological/historical nods so I'll probably watch the second season when it comes out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Swift View Post
    As someone who just watched this on Netflix without having any context about the other Fate series (only became aware that this was part of an ongoing continuity when I went to google things), I must say this felt a bit incoherent.

    Part of that is obviously that I am missing a lot of background knowledge, but it also seems like developing 30-ish characters (7 masters + 7 servants on each side + Sieg and Jeanne d'Arc) in 12 episodes was maybe a bit much.

    Regardless, I liked the fighting scenes and the mythological/historical nods so I'll probably watch the second season when it comes out.
    I can see how it would be a bit strange to walk into if you haven't experienced another Fate series before. This show kind of takes for granted that viewers will be familiar with the concept of the Holy Grail War, the master/servant relationship, and the different servant classes.

    If you would like to change that, Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works are both also on Netflix. Both are also quite good, though I would recommend Zero first since a) it's a prequel to UBW, and b) it's my favorite.

    Also, none of the characters have names as stupid as "Yggdmillennia," so there's that.
    Last edited by Velaryon; 2017-12-19 at 06:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Swift View Post
    As someone who just watched this on Netflix without having any context about the other Fate series (only became aware that this was part of an ongoing continuity when I went to google things), I must say this felt a bit incoherent.

    Part of that is obviously that I am missing a lot of background knowledge, but it also seems like developing 30-ish characters (7 masters + 7 servants on each side + Sieg and Jeanne d'Arc) in 12 episodes was maybe a bit much.

    Regardless, I liked the fighting scenes and the mythological/historical nods so I'll probably watch the second season when it comes out.
    This is not a good entry point into the Fate series; this is the weird remix what-if Earth 44 where Superman was raised by Lex Luthor. I second the Fate Zero recommendation, it's excellent and a prequel and sets up a lot of the stuff subsequently discussed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    This is not a good entry point into the Fate series; this is the weird remix what-if Earth 44 where Superman was raised by Lex Luthor. I second the Fate Zero recommendation, it's excellent and a prequel and sets up a lot of the stuff subsequently discussed.
    I wouldn't say that Zero sets up much of anything for Apocrypha but it does a very good job (arguably a better job than UBW) of establishing the very setting that Apocrypha takes place in. Or at least the basic fundamentals of it with the first few episodes of Apocrypha telling you how this series (Apocrypha) is different from a normal Holy Grail War and the normal setting for Fate.
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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Swift View Post
    As someone who just watched this on Netflix without having any context about the other Fate series (only became aware that this was part of an ongoing continuity when I went to google things), I must say this felt a bit incoherent.

    Part of that is obviously that I am missing a lot of background knowledge, but it also seems like developing 30-ish characters (7 masters + 7 servants on each side + Sieg and Jeanne d'Arc) in 12 episodes was maybe a bit much.

    Regardless, I liked the fighting scenes and the mythological/historical nods so I'll probably watch the second season when it comes out.
    Oh you will enjoy Apocrypha so much more if you watch Fate Zero now prior to waiting for months for Season 2 of Fate Apocrypha to come out.

    -----

    Speaking as a huge Fate fanboy who can go on and on, if you are going to be anime only please just watch Fate Zero for it is so good and a great starting point if you are going to be anime only.

    Fate Apocrypha is an alternate 4th grail war while Fate Zero is the 4th grail war in the main FSN story universe.

    Now Fate Zero is the prequel that takes place 10 years prior to something called Fate Stay Night (the original story), and FSN is actually 3 stories for what happens 10 years later could happen 3 different ways (and thus 3 different animes) well...FORGET ALL THIS ABOUT FSN...I tell you this for Fate fans who are not me can scare people off the franchise with how confusing we are speaking of these secret mysteries of things called different routes and different time lines and so on.

    Instead Rejoice watch Fate Zero, fall in love with it, and then realize you got 3 more wonderful animes to watch after that so rejoice for the story expands.

    Rejoice



    And after watching Fate Zero decide due you want to wait more months for Apocrypha or instead watch the FSN animes.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2017-12-20 at 01:20 AM.
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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Thanks for the recommendations everyone, guess I'm off to watch Fate Zero then!

    Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works are both also on Netflix.
    That's probably American Netflix only then, as neither show up over here in Europe. Not really a problem, as there are other ways of watching it, just slightly less convenient.
    Last edited by Silver Swift; 2017-12-20 at 05:06 AM.
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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Fate Apocrypha is an alternate 4th grail war while Fate Zero is the 4th grail war in the main FSN story universe.
    Is it the 4th? I've been under the impression it was an alternate 5th grail war.


    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Swift View Post
    That's probably American Netflix only then, as neither show up over here in Europe. Not really a problem, as there are other ways of watching it, just slightly less convenient.
    Ah, that didn't occur to me. I'm used to thinking of what Netflix doesn't have in the US (like the new Star Trek) rather than the other way around. Didn't even occur to me that you might not be able to access it that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    Is it the 4th? I've been under the impression it was an alternate 5th grail war.
    FSN 5th grail war takes place in 2004, and Fate Zero 4th grail war takes place in 1994.

    Fate Apocrypha is the 4th grail war of its timeline and we do not know what year. Most likely in the 2000s based off cameos, but we also have a character saying he has been preparing 60 years since the 3rd grail war. In the FSN continuity the 3rd grail war took place sometime during the 1930s. Honestly the year number of Apocrypha that makes sense is probably closer to 2004 than 1994 but no definite year is given and it is loose and fast with timelines.

    Thematically the 15 servant holy grail war of Apocrypha has a lot more in common with Fate Zero a a story than FSN. Thus my comments it is an alternate 4th grail war for it is literally the 4th grail war of its timeline, and story wise it is more similar to zero.
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    So the lesson of Fate/A is always be yourself, unless you can be a dragon. Then be the dragon.
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    The 2nd and Final Season / Cour of Fate Apocrypha will be entering Netflix (coming to the States) on Feb 9th.

    So that is 4 weeks, 28 days from now.
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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadowmind View Post
    So the lesson of Fate/A is always be yourself, unless you can be a dragon. Then be the dragon.
    Yes, yes it is.
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    So spoilers for FGO and the 2nd Season / Cour of Fate Apocrypha but Semiramis (Assassin of Red) is finally coming to FGO on the Japan Side (it will be almost 2 years before the US gets her, some of the Apocrypha servants you can get today.) She is a 5 star Assassin (as this goddess should be.)

    Well here is a video with english subs of all her dialogue lines, attacks, and noble phantasm.

    Links to Youtube

    Oh Since Semiramis is Double Summoned in Apocrypha (Assassin with some of the traits of a Caster as well as her Assassin, or she could have been summoned as a Caster with traits of an Assassin in a different grail war)... in FGO they made her 2nd skill Double Summon and in FGO terms this means Casters are not going to be strong against Semiramis for 3 turns, modifying the paper rock scissors that Riders=>Casters=>Assassins have. In FGO, caster normally do double damage against Assassins (such as Semiramis) so for 3 turns Semiramis has normal defense against casters, and Semiramis can also attack Casters at full damage (Caster's in FGO normally take half damage from Assassins).

    -----

    But seriously, Fate Apocrypha Season 2 / Cour 2 comes out in Netflix in 7 days.

    Last edited by Ramza00; 2018-02-02 at 07:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Hilariously, my introduction to the Fate Series was *exactly* the same as Silver Swift's - "Huh, what's this new anime series that Netflix just made? Fate Apocrypha? Huh, well I was looking for a new anime to watch . . . wait, what? What's going on!? Who's that guy? He can do *what*!?" (every 5 seconds or so for the first couple episodes )

    I did not know until reading this thread that Apocrypha was actually set in an alternate universe - while watching I had thought it was just a continuation of the other Fate series (which I had heard of but never watched). Do they ever actually explain the divergence point in the series (perhaps in part two), or is that something you're just expected to know?

    I got from watching the first half that there was some sort of grudge between Shirou and Darnic, and Darnic with pretty much every other mage, but it wasn't clear to me what Darnic had done to cheese Shirou off so much (nor how Shirou was able to do some of the things that he did, although I guess Part 2 will explain that?)

    I am also watching Fate Zero now, and it is glorious. Although much harder to figure out who to root for given that there's seven sides instead of two main ones.
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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Quote Originally Posted by Inspectre View Post
    Hilariously, my introduction to the Fate Series was *exactly* the same as Silver Swift's - "Huh, what's this new anime series that Netflix just made? Fate Apocrypha? Huh, well I was looking for a new anime to watch . . . wait, what? What's going on!? Who's that guy? He can do *what*!?" (every 5 seconds or so for the first couple episodes )

    I did not know until reading this thread that Apocrypha was actually set in an alternate universe - while watching I had thought it was just a continuation of the other Fate series (which I had heard of but never watched). Do they ever actually explain the divergence point in the series (perhaps in part two), or is that something you're just expected to know?

    I got from watching the first half that there was some sort of grudge between Shirou and Darnic, and Darnic with pretty much every other mage, but it wasn't clear to me what Darnic had done to cheese Shirou off so much (nor how Shirou was able to do some of the things that he did, although I guess Part 2 will explain that?)

    I am also watching Fate Zero now, and it is glorious. Although much harder to figure out who to root for given that there's seven sides instead of two main ones.
    The divergence point of Apocrypha from the mainline FSN universe (Aka the 3 routes of FSN, and Fate Zero the prequel to FSN, and the sequel to FSN which is Fate Hollow Ataraxia)

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    The timelines split in the 1930s during the 3rd grail war. (Some of which you can see in Fate Hollow Ataraxia...kind of...note Fate H/A is a visual novel and not an anime just like the original FSN was a visual novel before they started adapting some of the routes as anime).

    During the 3rd grail war of the 1930s the Einzbern, (one of the 3 great families that specialize in Alchemy, The Homunculi, and were trying to recovering the 3rd magic) figured out a great two different strategies on how to win the war.

    In Fate Apocrypha they summon a servant known as Ruler which is not one of the 7 main Servant classes instead of Berserker.

    In the Fate Zero / FSN / HA universe instead of summoning Ruler they summoned a different servant known as Avenger. Avenger's identity I am purposefully keeping a secret for you really do not need to know it, and it makes playing / watching Fate Zero, FSN, and Fate HA far more fun.

    Avenger is very important to the story. Oh Avenger and Ruler are in some ways the opposite sides of the same coin. Both are extremists and having the other "drive" inside of us is part of what it means to be fully human and we use both halves to balance ourselves.

    ------

    But yeah summoning different servants caused the 3rd grail war to happen completely differently.

    In Fate Zero / FSN the ritual was not completed but it remained in the land of Fuyuki Japan. Thus there is another 4th grail war 60 years later, with the 3 founding families and then 4 other magi.

    In Apocrypha one of the masters in the 3rd grail war got the Axis power involved and they stole the Greater Grail part of the Holy Grail Ritual before the ritual was completed. Then the master then stole the Greater Grail from the Axis power and he transferred it to Romania, the land of Transylvania and Vlad the III. He then created his own mage alliance called Yggdmillenia and now Yggdmillenia is trying to create a new 4th grail war but with 15 servants, two teams of 7 and a ruler.

    ------

    The 4th grail war of Fate Zero takes place in 1994.

    The 5th grail war of Fate Stay Night takes play in 2004 and it includes some characters from Fate Zero (not telling you who to keep spoilers low). Note the 5th Grail War of FSN has 3 different main ways the war can go. 3 Different routes depending on the choices of the protagonist. Fate Route, Unlimited Blade Works Route, and Heaven Feel Route.

    The Fate Route was adapted in the 2006 anime made by an anime studio company known as Deen. The 2006 anime has flaws, and they did not know they were going to do 3 seperate animes later. Because of this they mix and matched plots into the fate route from the other 2 routes even though the story is mostly the fate route. The music is superb. I recommend you not watch the 2006 anime and instead watch a fan edit of the 2006 anime that removes spoilers for UBW and HF. You can find the fan edit here.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...Po_Ye2J_QjpI11

    You can watch UBW 2014 / 2015 as normal as the 2nd route. UBW anime is done by an anime studio company known as Ufotable the same company who did 2011 and 2012's Fate Zero anime and also the Kara no Kyoukai movies. KnK is another nasuverse work that takes place in the same multiverse but instead of dealing with the holy grail it deals with psionic powers / ESPs. There is also Tsukihime which deals with mages and vampires.

    The 3rd route Heaven's Feel is going to be a series of 3 movies, all done by Ufotable. The 1st movie of Heaven's Feel route was just released in Winter 2017 and is just now coming out on bluray.

    -----

    Note there are far more FSN spin off works but they take place in seperate universes just like Apocrypha takes place in a seperate one compared to the main one. For example Fate Grand Order (which has an OVA known as First Order), Fate Extra / Extella universe, Fate Prisma Illya (Magical Girls story about an alternate world where Fate Zero went differently, Prisma Illya has a superb manga but a horrible anime). Fate Prototype is a world with a male King Arthur and a female hero and there are two holy grail wars Fragments of Blue and Silver is about GW1, and the Prototype OVA is about GW2 and so on and so on.

    Fate Stay Night Universe just turned 14 last week with the first visual novel being 14 years old now. Though the Nasuverse is older than that.

    Note this series has always been popular but since 2015 it is now printing money hand over fist with the release of the game Fate Grand Order. Literally one of the most popular free 2 play games out there and Sony states that this game itself is the reason why they are having record profits in the Sony Music (and games division.) Remember a few years ago Sony was financially struggling and spinning off parts of itself to avoid bankruptcy.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2018-02-02 at 09:32 PM.
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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Quote Originally Posted by Inspectre View Post
    Hilariously, my introduction to the Fate Series was *exactly* the same as Silver Swift's - "Huh, what's this new anime series that Netflix just made? Fate Apocrypha? Huh, well I was looking for a new anime to watch . . . wait, what? What's going on!? Who's that guy? He can do *what*!?" (every 5 seconds or so for the first couple episodes )

    I did not know until reading this thread that Apocrypha was actually set in an alternate universe - while watching I had thought it was just a continuation of the other Fate series (which I had heard of but never watched). Do they ever actually explain the divergence point in the series (perhaps in part two), or is that something you're just expected to know?

    I got from watching the first half that there was some sort of grudge between Shirou and Darnic, and Darnic with pretty much every other mage, but it wasn't clear to me what Darnic had done to cheese Shirou off so much (nor how Shirou was able to do some of the things that he did, although I guess Part 2 will explain that?)

    I am also watching Fate Zero now, and it is glorious. Although much harder to figure out who to root for given that there's seven sides instead of two main ones.
    The big point of divergence is that the Holy Grail was stolen during a previous Holy Grail War instead of what was supposed to happen. I think during the...third trail war? They talk about how Yggdmillenia got its start and that's the divergence point, but they don't make it super obvious, expecting fans of Fate to be able to pick up on what was different.

    And Fate/Zero is just awesome..but pick whichever character you like the most to cheer for in that one. There are few characters in Zero that are just whole heartedly good people...the rest are very grey or downright evil, so just choose whose side you are on. That's what I did!
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    Thanks guys. I will wait to see what Part 2 of Apocrypha has for answers, and if I have more questions spawned by what happens there I will be back!
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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Quote Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran View Post
    And Fate/Zero is just awesome..but pick whichever character you like the most to cheer for in that one. There are few characters in Zero that are just whole heartedly good people...the rest are very grey or downright evil, so just choose whose side you are on. That's what I did!
    I will vent now.

    Spoiler: Fate/Zero Spoiler
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    Kariya should have won. All he wanted to do was save the life of one doomed little girl, he sacrificed everything he cared about for that wish, and Berserker was the one servant who could, potentially, have taken Gilgamesh one on one. But he was doomed from the beginning, because prequel. Instead, he loses to the serial killer who was willing to throw his daughter's life away, and dies in the middle of the most pathetic Berserker fight sequence because mana drain. He's literally a bit actor for the sake of Kotomine's story.

    I am immensely disappointed. In any other show, he might have been the hero. Or at least got his wish, even if he didn't live to see that happy ending.

    Sigh. Here's hoping that the Heaven's Feel movies make up for it...
    Last edited by Fable Wright; 2018-02-03 at 02:02 AM.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    I will vent now.

    Spoiler
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    Kariya should have won. All he wanted to do was save the life of one doomed little girl, he sacrificed everything he cared about for that wish, and Berserker was the one servant who could, potentially, have taken Gilgamesh one on one. But he was doomed from the beginning, because prequel. Instead, he loses to the serial killer who was willing to throw his daughter's life away, and dies in the middle of the most pathetic Berserker fight sequence because mana drain. He's literally a bit actor for the sake of Kotomine's story.

    I am immensely disappointed. In any other show, he might have been the hero. Or at least got his wish, even if he didn't live to see that happy ending.

    Sigh. Here's hoping that the Heaven's Feel movies make up for it...
    Spoiler
    Show

    He's a lousy mage, which is why the Drain basically killed him. I generally agree that he should have gotten more, but he was very unstable. Waiver is honestly the most moral person, and even he's questionable.

    Also, Artoria can take Gil with a mana battery like Irisviel.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    I will vent now.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Kariya should have won. All he wanted to do was save the life of one doomed little girl, he sacrificed everything he cared about for that wish, and Berserker was the one servant who could, potentially, have taken Gilgamesh one on one. But he was doomed from the beginning, because prequel. Instead, he loses to the serial killer who was willing to throw his daughter's life away, and dies in the middle of the most pathetic Berserker fight sequence because mana drain. He's literally a bit actor for the sake of Kotomine's story.

    I am immensely disappointed. In any other show, he might have been the hero. Or at least got his wish, even if he didn't live to see that happy ending.

    Sigh. Here's hoping that the Heaven's Feel movies make up for it...
    Please label your spoilers =Fate Zero Spoilers since this is a thread with many Fate properties and the original purpose is Apocrypha and some people have not watched Fate Zero.

    Spoiler: Fate Zero and FSN
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    I understand where you are coming from with Kariya from a stortelling / bard type perspective. Besides prequel stuff it was already established both in Fate Zero and its original FSN that Berserkers often kill their masters due to mana drain and we literally got to see this several times in Fate Zero.

    But yeah you should read the Prisma Illya Manga (skip the anime it is bad) if your goal was for Kariya to win the grail war. Different characters but many similar themes with a specific character and Kariya.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Fate/Apocrypha

    So Season 2 / Cour 2 of Fate Apocrypha is now out on Netflix.

    By the time you finished Season 2 you have finished the entirety Fate Apocrypha story. That said we will see some of the characters with cameos in other works and so on.

    I have not had time to watch it, but I figured I might as well post and remind everyone
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