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    Default Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    So, Death Battle's Naruto vs Ichigo happened. I won't spoil the result, but it gave the inspiration for an idea I've had for a while.

    I'm more familar with Bleach than I am with Naruto, but matching Goku against a guy with swords feels a bit too unfair, so we're going with Saiyan v ninja wizard. The twist to this match is that Naruto will win; no matter the power discrepancy, battle experience or glowy hair, Goku will be defeated.

    The battle will take place at Konoha, but may be moved elsewhere in the world. Somebody has managed to persuade Zen'o to seek out a great warrior in another universe for his friend to fight, so Goku has been thrown over to the world of Naruto, roughly at about the time of the last movie but before any of the events of Boruto. He's been told that to return, he must seek out and defeat 'The foxwhiskered orange ninja of Konoha, Naruto Uzumaki'.

    Any and all Naruto characters alive and healthy at the time may take part. Zen'o has no power over the Naruto world, but he can teleport over or recall any Dragonball character that's not destroyed. Naruto characters that you don't want to take part have taken a long journey to another part of the country or been clocked over the head by debris from the early battle. In the end, Naruto will defeat Goku.

    How should the fight go? What would be the best victory for Naruto and Konoha? BEGIN!
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durkoala View Post
    So, Death Battle's Naruto vs Ichigo happened. I won't spoil the result, but it gave the inspiration for an idea I've had for a while.

    I'm more familar with Bleach than I am with Naruto, but matching Goku against a guy with swords feels a bit too unfair, so we're going with Saiyan v ninja wizard. The twist to this match is that Naruto will win; no matter the power discrepancy, battle experience or glowy hair, Goku will be defeated.

    The battle will take place at Konoha, but may be moved elsewhere in the world. Somebody has managed to persuade Zen'o to seek out a great warrior in another universe for his friend to fight, so Goku has been thrown over to the world of Naruto, roughly at about the time of the last movie but before any of the events of Boruto. He's been told that to return, he must seek out and defeat 'The foxwhiskered orange ninja of Konoha, Naruto Uzumaki'.

    Any and all Naruto characters alive and healthy at the time may take part. Zen'o has no power over the Naruto world, but he can teleport over or recall any Dragonball character that's not destroyed. Naruto characters that you don't want to take part have taken a long journey to another part of the country or been clocked over the head by debris from the early battle. In the end, Naruto will defeat Goku.

    How should the fight go? What would be the best victory for Naruto and Konoha? BEGIN!
    Considering the situation? Naruto talks to Goku.

    Completely serious here.

    Naruto is brash and whatnot, but by the end of the series he has a firm appreciation for peace. Sure, other character's from Naruto could likely severely mess up Goku in some fashion or another, but based on the parameters...Naruto just talks to Goku.

    Tells him he doesn't want to fight, especially once he's aware of what Goku is capable of, and convinces Goku that living in the Leaf Village wouldn't be so bad after all.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Yeah, if there's anything Naruto's good at, especially after a good warm-up, would be using Talk-no-Jutsu to convince Goku that there's a bazillion other awesome stuff to do than fight. I doubt Goku's gonna refuse an Ichiraku Ramen treat.

    Failing that, Naruto will probably just use talk-no-jutsu with Chi-Chi, Gohan, or Piccolo to slap some sense into Goku.

    Goku might try to stop him, but Naruto is a ninja. Misdirections and escaping should now be a given for him

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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Assuming he can't simply talk his way out of a fight, and since you specified people can help him, there's two main ways he can beat Goku:

    1.) He catches him off guard. At least as far as current Super canon, if Goku lets his guard down he's little stronger than any other mere mortal. A sneak attack from Naruto ends the fight immediately.

    2.) He rings Sasuke up and tells him "Yo, Genjutsu that punk" and mind whammies Goku into submission.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    I really don't see any legitimate scenario where Naruto wins a fight. The guy can tank hits that can destroy the universe. He'd have to get Goku when his guard is completely down. Luckily Goku is incredibly stupid and naive, so that's probably possible.

    If Goku is actually powered up and trying then there's just no possible win scenario for Naruto.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2017-11-09 at 11:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Naruto, feigning friendliness, gives Goku a handshake - and transfers over some Sage chakra, turning Goku into a toad statue.

    Naruto, feigning friendliness, offers Goku poisoned Ramen - which Goku promptly eats and then suffers. We know from when Goku consumed Water of the Gods, and from when Goku was suffering from a heart disease, that even great Ki doesn't make you immune to poison and disease.

    Naruto calls Sasuke and has Sasuke trap Goku in Tsukiyomi. Goku has great willpower, but lacks intellect and has few demonstrated defenses against genjutsu-like attacks.

    Naruto feigns weakness, then powers up and sneak attacks while Goku is still holding back. DB Super and Resurrection F establish this as totally legit tactic: it's major plot point in Resurrection of Frieza arc that a Ki user actually has to keep their Ki focused to defend successfully. Even more obviously, Goku in current arc is taking hits from Caulifla primarily because he's unable and unwilling to power up to max

    So yeah. Peak power Goku is untouchable to Naruto. Goku the gullible dumbass potentially dies to a kunai through the ribs.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Yeah, its a safe bet that offering a poisoned buffet will pretty much kill any shonen protagonist easily. As long as Naruto plays it smart, Goku can die. the trick is to do it fast enough before Goku gets distracted by the fact that shonen fights happen in Naruto's world and tries to fight somebody thinking they're strong and then probably one punches them by accident.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Sorry, I should have specified that the purpose of this setup was to be the antithesis of Death Battle: the outcome is set, what's the most awesome way to get there while sticking with canon powers and attitudes? That's what I get for posting late at night.

    Is it likely that Naruto will immediately attempt to poison Goku without knowing him? Is it likely that Naruto will immediately try to kill a person walking around looking for him? Both of those feel quite uncharacteristic to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ben-zayb View Post
    Yeah, if there's anything Naruto's good at, especially after a good warm-up, would be using Talk-no-Jutsu to convince Goku that there's a bazillion other awesome stuff to do than fight. I doubt Goku's gonna refuse an Ichiraku Ramen treat.

    Failing that, Naruto will probably just use talk-no-jutsu with Chi-Chi, Gohan, or Piccolo to slap some sense into Goku.

    Goku might try to stop him, but Naruto is a ninja. Misdirections and escaping should now be a given for him
    I'd argue that Naruto is actually a wizard painted to look like a ninja, but the rest of this is solid.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durkoala View Post
    I'd argue that Naruto is actually a wizard painted to look like a ninja, but the rest of this is solid.
    Painted... Orange?

    That doesn't seem a very ninja-ish color to me.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Yeah, its a safe bet that offering a poisoned buffet will pretty much kill any shonen protagonist easily. As long as Naruto plays it smart, Goku can die. the trick is to do it fast enough before Goku gets distracted by the fact that shonen fights happen in Naruto's world and tries to fight somebody thinking they're strong and then probably one punches them by accident.
    Hmm.. yeah.. well.. main ones i can think off that would not.. is Ichigo.. Dr Stone, Aladin from Magi.. Edward from FMA.
    But its a depressingly high number who would fall for it.

    Yeah, its a safe bet that offering a poisoned buffet will pretty much kill any shonen protagonist easily. As long as Naruto plays it smart, Goku can die. the trick is to do it fast enough before Goku gets distracted by the fact that shonen fights happen in Naruto's world and tries to fight somebody thinking they're strong and then probably one punches them by accident.
    Well, the important bit is then, does Naruto have any sort of tricks that renders raw force irelevant? like some of the stances from Jojo's?
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Painted... Orange?

    That doesn't seem a very ninja-ish color to me.
    Yes! It's the perfect camouflage. No one would expect a ninja to be orange.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    I think I like this vs format better. It's much more civil.

    Goku did survive eating a poisoned buffet once. Maybe that was anime filler though. It probably was.

    Regardless, I think Naruto is way too straightforward to try that anyway. The only ways I can see him winning a fight like this are all extremely out of character for him. His only chance is if he goes all out early and gets a lucky kill shot before Goku takes it seriously.

    There would definately be one scene where he tries the sexy-no-jutsu and gets punched anyway because Goku doesn't even realize he's a woman.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2017-11-10 at 12:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Another option:

    It's not DB Super Goku versus End-series Naruto.

    Early series Naruto and early series Goku are actually at comparable levels for quite long. End series Naruto would also likely match well against Young Adult Goku at the end of Piccolo saga, if you're willing to overlook on case of Roshi blowing up the Moon as a gag super early.

    Naruto could easily get a technical victory over Goku in a Tournament setting, as Naruto is generally more versatile and tactical than Goku.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    Naruto, feigning friendliness, gives Goku a handshake - and transfers over some Sage chakra, turning Goku into a toad statue.
    Can Naruto transfer Sage chakra to people?

    I know that's how he defeated the...I want to say the Preta Path but that was also because that Path was actively absorbing the sage chakra out of him because he wasn't aware of the dangers of it.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran View Post
    Can Naruto transfer Sage chakra to people?

    I know that's how he defeated the...I want to say the Preta Path but that was also because that Path was actively absorbing the sage chakra out of him because he wasn't aware of the dangers of it.
    Naruto's been a chakra fondue during the war, so using sage chakra for that isn't unimaginable.

    His Hyuuga kids would theoretically be able to via physically contact and Jyuuken, which in my head canon why the Hyuuga+Ootsuki half of the Rinnegan path is still pretty powerful

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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    God that chakra sharing thing is scary when you think about it. If he can just "donate" chakra at will to whoever he wants, literally every fight would end with a toad statue opponent a few seconds in. But yeah, aside from that working, his best bet would be talk no jutsu. His next best bet is "Yo Sasuke! Handle this for me will ya?" no jutsu. After that, its all over. I just cant think of a legit way for naruto to win against goku without goku totally jobbing during the fight. Narutos skills are basically the sort of thing goku breaks for fun. Sasuke/itachi would have a far better shot at winning if they break out the mind shattering illusions early. Though even the standard "Im not really here, oh wait, yes I am, /stab" would be possible due to that whole focus thing mentioned earlier.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Sasuke doesn't have tsukuyomi as his eye power though, he has amaratsu and the ability to control it as well as regular fire.
    We can assume though through the origin of chakra story that goku would be immune to genjutsu since he doesn't pocess chakra.

    Back on topic though id imagine naruto would have to swarm him before goku realized the threat as others have stated earlier. But talk.no jutsu is the strongest and I could see goku joining the hidden leaf and teaching a fourth taijutsu path.

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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Mangekyo Sharingan always comes with Tsukiyomi in one eye and Amaterasu in the other, and we see Sasuke attempt Tsukiyomi against Killer Bee, and later to interrogate a guard while breaking to the meeting of five kages (IIRC).

    Not really important, just saying.

    As for Naruto, once he became pals with Kurama, he became able to share Kurama's Chakra across hundreds (possibly thousands) of people at once. We later see Kurama gather Sage Chakra for Naruto, so Naruto transferring Sage Chakra into another person is totally legit. This said, as with other people not suffering ill effects from Kurama's Chakra (in contrast to Naruto himself, who was badly burned by it earlier), Naruto's own control over Senjutsu might prevent the target from turning into a toad. Preta Pain was a special case of someone who was unable of using Senjutsu, absorbing a huge amount of Sage Chakra from an unco-operative target.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    Preta Pain was a special case of someone who was unable of using Senjutsu, absorbing a huge amount of Sage Chakra from an unco-operative target.
    Naruto was quite co-operative, as I recall, once he realized what was happening. He stopped all physical struggle and focused on gathering more Sage Chakra for Pain to absorb until the toad transformation started.
    Last edited by Douglas; 2017-11-12 at 05:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    Mangekyo Sharingan always comes with Tsukiyomi in one eye and Amaterasu in the other, and we see Sasuke attempt Tsukiyomi against Killer Bee, and later to interrogate a guard while breaking to the meeting of five kages (IIRC).
    Incorrect, actually. Tsukuyomi is an Itachi-exclusive Sharigan jutsu, just like Shisui's Ultimate Illusion: Infinite Hax technique.

    All Sharingan users can use Genjutsu however, and at boosted effectiveness.

    Sasuke's techniques are Amaterasu in one eye (like his brother) and the other one gives him CONTROL over it. That's why he can extinguish them and shape the flames into weaponry and whatnot.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Hmmm, at glance you appear correct.

    However, by the end of the series Sasuke had used Itachi's eyes to overcome Mangekyo-induced blindness, to gain Eternal Mangekyo. In every other case an eye transplant has lead to transfer of eye-specific abilities, but I don't have ability to comb through the series to see if this is confirmed for Sasuke anywhere.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    I could've sworn Sasuke's unique Mangekyou technique is the teleport-swap technique he used at the end of the series.


    As for Sasuke vs Goku, I just thought of Sasuke vs Lee and Madara vs Gai, taken to 11. And by taken to 11, I meant taken to bazillion. But for analytical purposes, let's see:

    Amaterasu and its derivative techniques are undispellable, but didn't they turn out to be avoidable at some point? That said, there are couple of sensible reasons why Goku would try to just tank it and see.

    While Uchihas are supposed naturals at genjutsu, I can't recall Sasuke successfully making full-blown, Tsukuyomi-style, usage of it on enemies that matter. With subtle usage as in the Danzo fight, however, it proves to be a great way to mess up with an opponent's perception.

    Can Sasuke use truth-seeking balls? That could carve Goku up real nice if he chooses to tank it.

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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by ben-zayb View Post
    I could've sworn Sasuke's unique Mangekyou technique is the teleport-swap technique he used at the end of the series.


    As for Sasuke vs Goku, I just thought of Sasuke vs Lee and Madara vs Gai, taken to 11. And by taken to 11, I meant taken to bazillion. But for analytical purposes, let's see:

    Amaterasu and its derivative techniques are undispellable, but didn't they turn out to be avoidable at some point? That said, there are couple of sensible reasons why Goku would try to just tank it and see.

    While Uchihas are supposed naturals at genjutsu, I can't recall Sasuke successfully making full-blown, Tsukuyomi-style, usage of it on enemies that matter. With subtle usage as in the Danzo fight, however, it proves to be a great way to mess up with an opponent's perception.

    Can Sasuke use truth-seeking balls? That could carve Goku up real nice if he chooses to tank it.
    I dont recall sasuke ever using those things. Didnt sasuke use genjutsu on killer bee? Yep, did a quick youtube trawl and found it. He dropped bee with it temporarily, though being a host let him break out of it. However, he activated his mangekyo to use it, that means it pretty much has to be tsukiyomi.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by ben-zayb
    I could've sworn Sasuke's unique Mangekyou technique is the teleport-swap technique he used at the end of the series.
    That power he gets when one of his eyes evolves into Sharinnegan. That's why its hard to remember who had which powers: Sharingan are a license to pull new powers of your posterior and Uchiha swap them around like socks.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    That power he gets when one of his eyes evolves into Sharinnegan. That's why its hard to remember who had which powers: Sharingan are a license to pull new powers of your posterior and Uchiha swap them around like socks.
    thoug no one with uchiha name pop( except obito) flying thunder god technique and only users are second hokage and naruto's pop via melee touch attack or using kunai to apply via ranged attack so thee is 1 to 0.1 percent chance sasuke learned space time jutsu via hokages.
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durkoala View Post
    Sorry, I should have specified that the purpose of this setup was to be the antithesis of Death Battle: the outcome is set, what's the most awesome way to get there while sticking with canon powers and attitudes? That's what I get for posting late at night.

    Is it likely that Naruto will immediately attempt to poison Goku without knowing him? Is it likely that Naruto will immediately try to kill a person walking around looking for him? Both of those feel quite uncharacteristic to me.
    So what Iím hearing is you want this to play out like a battle in both series. With a warm up and gradual ratcheting up of power levels, until Narito somehow wins after Goku has become Goku Saiyin n+1.

    Itís not a realistic scenario when Goku is operating on a completely different scale. Goku can destroy the universe with his fists. He can tank attacks that can destroy the universe. Naruto, using his characteristic powers to win in his characteristic way of overpowering the enemy with a new jutsu doesnít realistically stand a chance. Unless we handwave a Naruto power actually busting through Gokuís sheer toughness...

    But that is like suggesting a ordinary nine year old bears Goku. There is no reason to think it can happen, not without cheap tricks, trickery, or cheating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
    The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.

    Thanks to half-halfling for the avatar

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    I don't really see a way this doesn't end at Ichiraku Ramen. They have a friendly spar where they keep piling on the super modes and new forms and generally having a good time of it. Both Goku and Naruto would see the point in that, and it's rare for Naruto to meet a rival that can actually take what he can dish out. They might sell tickets, even. I'd think they both hit a level where if they go higher, it'd be lethal with the risk of one-shotting each other and the nearest couple of miles, so they call it a draw, and do that sign of friendship that ninjas do after a fight. Goku would probably find that a pretty nice idea, to be honest. You can beat someone up and go "No hard feelings!" in a single gesture in this world? Sweet!

    And then Naruto utters the fateful words that grants him victory: "Hey, Goku? Bet you I can eat more bowls of ramen than you can!" Now challenging a saiyan, let alone Goku to an eating contest is perhaps even dumber than challenging him to a fight, but I don't see Goku out-Ramen'ing Naruto, ever. And so Goku ends up losing, but not by as many bowls as Naruto thought.

    All in all, Goku's trip to Konoha ended up with everything he wanted. Good fights, good food, and a guy who just "gets it". He might not be a saiyan, but this Naruto kid, he's alright. Will have to fight him again later. And next time, Goku will out-eat him, believe it!
    Last edited by McNum; 2017-11-13 at 11:14 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    I don't really see a way this doesn't end at Ichiraku Ramen. They have a friendly spar where they keep piling on the super modes and new forms and generally having a good time of it. Both Goku and Naruto would see the point in that, and it's rare for Naruto to meet a rival that can actually take what he can dish out. They might sell tickets, even. I'd think they both hit a level where if they go higher, it'd be lethal with the risk of one-shotting each other and the nearest couple of miles, so they call it a draw, and do that sign of friendship that ninjas do after a fight. Goku would probably find that a pretty nice idea, to be honest. You can beat someone up and go "No hard feelings!" in a single gesture in this world? Sweet!

    And then Naruto utters the fateful words that grants him victory: "Hey, Goku? Bet you I can eat more bowls of ramen than you can!" Now challenging a saiyan, let alone Goku to an eating contest is perhaps even dumber than challenging him to a fight, but I don't see Goku out-Ramen'ing Naruto, ever. And so Goku ends up losing, but not by as many bowls as Naruto thought.

    All in all, Goku's trip to Konoha ended up with everything he wanted. Good fights, good food, and a guy who just "gets it". He might not be a saiyan, but this Naruto kid, he's alright. Will have to fight him again later. And next time, Goku will out-eat him, believe it!
    Only downside of that awesome theory is, selling tickets wouldnt work well as the viewers would need to be a couple miles back several power ups before naruto runs out to avoid being casually obliterated. See if they can import some den den mushi and viewscreens from One Piece so everyone can watch from konoha as they duke it out in the middle of the most deserted part of suna.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    Naruto's own control over Senjutsu might prevent the target from turning into a toad.
    Goku also has total mastery of his ki and is used to absorbing natural energy among other things.

    I imagine Goku picks a fight with Naruto the super saiyen ninja for the heck of it. They start with basic techniques, Naruto ninja'ing around while Goku shows off more stuff from Assassination Classroom, invisible blasts (Boruto's entire deal), and self-resurrection abilities as Naruto charges up through his super forms. But nothing he can do is particularly effective so he uses harem no jutsu, then the reverse of it once he realizes Goku is unaffected, only to get punched in the face. Near the end, Goku stands over Naruto holding Mars ready to clobber him in the face and Naruto uses Talk-no-Jutsu. Goku wins the food eating contest but they are now BFFs forever.

  30. - Top - End - #30
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    Default Re: Alternate vs fight format: how does Naruto beat Goku?

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Painted... Orange?

    That doesn't seem a very ninja-ish color to me.
    That's how you can tell he's really good at it.

    Takes real skill to ninje in bright orange.

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