Ive never played 4e and would like to.

[Sariel Vailo]

I had some questions about 4e and have 3 splat books my friend was selling his brothers old stough i got them.
I dont know how to play it
I do know what race id like to try buuut.
I dont know what class i want to try.
Its out of the heros of shadows book its the half vampire race from that splat i think theyre called vryloka. And maybe a paladin

[Eradis]

Remind me again what "splat" mean?

On another note, the 4th edition is mostly balanced the way a video game is. Basically there is no class that outshine another (take this with a grain of salt since optimization can go a pretty long way) and it's the same for races (again with some perspective). It all comes down to which kind of character you want to play. Here's some questions that might help you figure it out:

• Do you prefer to shine in combat, regarding utilities skills or in social encounter?
• Do you rather be a part of the mass and fit about anywhere or be an outsider wherever you go?
• Do you want to face challenges head on, from a distance or altogether work around them?
• ...

Of course those are just small guidelines that can shine some light, but it can always depend on your Game Master's settings and with who will be part of your party. If you need more specifics (which is probably the case), please do ask and I'll try to enlighten you the best I can.

[masteraleph]

Vryloka work fine as Paladins- they’re not the absolute most optimal, but the stats are fine.

When you say “Paladin,” you should be aware that there are three options:

The original Paladin, introduced in the original PHB.

The Blackguard, from Heroes of Shadow.

The Cavalier, from Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms.

Original Paladins have the most complexity when it comes to builds, but are also the best as Defenders by a fair margin. Cavaliers are also Defenders and easier to build, and reasonably competent at low levels, but they’re terrible at higher levels. Blackguards are technically Strikers, also easy to build, and again reasonably competent at low levels but pretty terrible at higher ones.

In terms of sources: PHB 1, Divine Power, and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms and Heroes of Shadow all have material for the original Paladin. The other two are primarily based around their respective books, though some stuff is available from other sources. There are also several Dragon Magazine issues containing powers for Paladins, and Tieflings and Dragonborn both have racial pucks from their respective racial PHBs.

[Sariel Vailo]

Vryloka work fine as Paladins- they’re not the absolute most optimal, but the stats are fine.

When you say “Paladin,” you should be aware that there are three options:

The original Paladin, introduced in the original PHB.

The Blackguard, from Heroes of Shadow.

The Cavalier, from Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms.

Original Paladins have the most complexity when it comes to builds, but are also the best as Defenders by a fair margin. Cavaliers are also Defenders and easier to build, and reasonably competent at low levels, but they’re terrible at higher levels. Blackguards are technically Strikers, also easy to build, and again reasonably competent at low levels but pretty terrible at higher ones.

In terms of sources: PHB 1, Divine Power, and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms and Heroes of Shadow all have material for the original Paladin. The other two are primarily based around their respective books, though some stuff is available from other sources. There are also several Dragon Magazine issues containing powers for Paladins, and Tieflings and Dragonborn both have racial pucks from their respective racial PHBs.

How are vryloka vampires. Because i have the need to feed and if that fails a drow is usually my go to. Or vryolka warlord i wana be a strategist fighter so is warlord the one.but i also wana eat faces and bite people

[Dimers]

Remind me again what "splat" mean?

"Splatbook" is a book expanding on one topic (usually mechanical). In 4e, splatbooks are things like Martial Power, Divine Power, Adventurer's Vault or Eberron Player's Guide.

Spoiler: more information than you require

Show

People on the geekier end of the spectrum sometimes refer to the asterisk as a "splat", just as an exclamation point is a "bang" and a carat is a "hat". The shorthand originally helped programmers and other intensive computer users quickly convey info about weird character strings, saving syllables and thus retaining focus better. Why "splat" for the asterisk? Hit a grapefruit with a sledgehammer and see what shape you get.

But how the hell does that relate to splatbooks? It's the product of yet another shorthand. The asterisk can be used as a 'wildcard' in some search tools, operating systems and so forth -- *.exe means "any .exe files". So instead of listing Martial Power, Divine Power, Arcane Power, Psionic Power et friggin' cetera, we gamer types might just write *Power. So a splatbook is a book in a series with a unifying theme. From there, usage quickly drifted to any book with supporting material for a given game system.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I love English.

How are vryloka vampires. Because i have the need to feed and if that fails a drow is usually my go to. Or vryolka warlord i wana be a strategist fighter so is warlord the one.but i also wana eat faces and bite people

Vampires are nearly the weakest in the game as a base class, though multiclassing into vampire can provide some interesting optimization tricks. Vryloka are fine, and vryloka warlord is a great combination. I'd suggest if you want the whole "biting" thing, use a longsword's stats but describe it as a bite. In my experience most 4e GMs can work with that. Or you could use one of the lycanthrope Themes to get a bite attack.

[Sariel Vailo]

"Splatbook" is a book expanding on one topic (usually mechanical). In 4e, splatbooks are things like Martial Power, Divine Power, Adventurer's Vault or Eberron Player's Guide.

Spoiler: more information than you require

Show

People on the geekier end of the spectrum sometimes refer to the asterisk as a "splat", just as an exclamation point is a "bang" and a carat is a "hat". The shorthand originally helped programmers and other intensive computer users quickly convey info about weird character strings, saving syllables and thus retaining focus better. Why "splat" for the asterisk? Hit a grapefruit with a sledgehammer and see what shape you get.

But how the hell does that relate to splatbooks? It's the product of yet another shorthand. The asterisk can be used as a 'wildcard' in some search tools, operating systems and so forth -- *.exe means "any .exe files". So instead of listing Martial Power, Divine Power, Arcane Power, Psionic Power et friggin' cetera, we gamer types might just write *Power. So a splatbook is a book in a series with a unifying theme. From there, usage quickly drifted to any book with supporting material for a given game system.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I love English.

Vampires are nearly the weakest in the game as a base class, though multiclassing into vampire can provide some interesting optimization tricks. Vryloka are fine, and vryloka warlord is a great combination. I'd suggest if you want the whole "biting" thing, use a longsword's stats but describe it as a bite. In my experience most 4e GMs can work with that. Or you could use one of the lycanthrope Themes to get a bite attack.

We will go longsword fluffed as biting

[MwaO]

Vampires are nearly the weakest in the game as a base class, though multiclassing into vampire can provide some interesting optimization tricks. Vryloka are fine, and vryloka warlord is a great combination. I'd suggest if you want the whole "biting" thing, use a longsword's stats but describe it as a bite. In my experience most 4e GMs can work with that. Or you could use one of the lycanthrope Themes to get a bite attack.

Vampire is not a weak class. They have an ick factor and if you want optimization, you have to go outside the class to get it. The 1st is a social player issue, the 2nd is something that's easy to do in 4e. But they're not weak.

[Yakk]

You can optimize a vampire for damage.

You can also optimize a wizard for damage using nothing but a basic melee attack charge.

[Kurald Galain]

There are some item/feat combos that can deal good damage on any class; but the vampire itself doesn't add anything to that equation. It is 4E's equivalent of the commoner.

That the vampire is weak doesn't mean it's utterly and completely useless. It does mean that it's markedly worse than literally every other class in the game.

[masteraleph]

It does mean that it's markedly worse than literally every other class in the game.

Binder wants to have a chat with you.

[Yakk]

Binder is worse than normal warlocks in almost all ways, but it can pick warlock powers and feats and function with many of them.

[MwaO]

There are some item/feat combos that can deal good damage on any class; but the vampire itself doesn't add anything to that equation. It is 4E's equivalent of the commoner.

Unless you knock a Vampire out, you might as well not have damaged it at all. Because it will heal for free at the end of the combat all the way to full. And unless you knock it out multiple times at 7th, same thing. Even if you do knock it out multiple times, it can take a surge from another party member and again, heal to full.

Have a PC who is at or near the optimization level of the table in terms of damage output, it will add a lot to that equation. And as they have a solid MBA+good daily powers, it is not hard to make that happen.

[Kurald Galain]

Unless you knock a Vampire out, you might as well not have damaged it at all. Because it will heal for free at the end of the combat all the way to full. And unless you knock it out multiple times at 7th, same thing. Even if you do knock it out multiple times, it can take a surge from another party member and again, heal to full.

Have a PC who is at or near the optimization level of the table in terms of damage output, it will add a lot to that equation. And as they have a solid MBA+good daily powers, it is not hard to make that happen.

You... probably... shouldn't assume such high-level optimization and min-max tricks on a first time player

(or indeed, assume that any DM that isn't heavily into charop himself will allow them in the first place, regardless of how technically legal they are)

[MeeposFire]

Unless you knock a Vampire out, you might as well not have damaged it at all. Because it will heal for free at the end of the combat all the way to full. And unless you knock it out multiple times at 7th, same thing. Even if you do knock it out multiple times, it can take a surge from another party member and again, heal to full.

Have a PC who is at or near the optimization level of the table in terms of damage output, it will add a lot to that equation. And as they have a solid MBA+good daily powers, it is not hard to make that happen.

If you want to be really crafty (heh) have a vampire in a party with an artificer. Artificer heals do not use the target's surges which is great for a vamp and if the vamp player has any extra surges left after a fight that would give him ful health then the rest can be used to fuel future uses of the artificer's healing powers.

World breaking no but it is an interesting combo that nobody else does.

[MeeposFire]

Binder is worse than normal warlocks in almost all ways, but it can pick warlock powers and feats and function with many of them.

While you are correct that binders are functional they are still the class that really should not have been made (and it is the one class in 4e that I feel that way about). Having the same power set as a warlock means that it has really nothing to make you want it over the normal warlock. Controllers are very much about their powers and not as much class features and so if you can get the controller powers on a class you get the vast majority of what a controller does and needs. That means the normal warlock is as good a controller as the controller warlock while also getting striker class abilities as a bonus.

There just was no reason for the binder warlock as it was designed. IN contrast the vampire is at least mechanically distinct so even if you do not like its power level it does serve its purpose. The binder warlock sadly does not (which is really sad because I really like binders in 3e).

[MwaO]

You... probably... shouldn't assume such high-level optimization and min-max tricks on a first time player

(or indeed, assume that any DM that isn't heavily into charop himself will allow them in the first place, regardless of how technically legal they are)

To make absolutely clear, the healing mechanism is not min-maxed. Have too many surges leftover? You heal to full by explicit rules. You don't knock a Vampire unconscious enough times, they heal all the way to full at the end of every short rest with no surge cost. Don't have too many surges? A short rest is 5 minutes long or 50 rounds. You regenerate to not-bloodied, then a single surge from another PC gets you back to full.

Also, there is a whole raft of feats that are designed for Vampires and only work for pure Vampires if they have an MC feat and encounter attack powers from another class.

Which then leads to the following 3 scenarios:
No one at the table is optimized. Your MBA damage, daily powers, and your toughness is good, you should be fine. You won't need MC/Novice Power because no one else is using them. In fact, you might be potentially 'overpowered' at the right table because there's say a Warlord who grants melee basics and your MBA is stronger than most PCs.

The table is optimized and helps out non-optimized players to reach the same ballpark of the table. Again, fine.

The table is a mix of optimized and unoptimized and for whatever reasons, the rest of the table is not interested in helping out newer players to stay in the general ballpark - and the DM is willing to issue rulings designed to punish players. The Vampire class just makes the obvious happen faster - that their first PC was not a good choice for such a table and that they should redo it. And if that's not an option, well, that's a really bad table and it is actually probably a net benefit to play a Vampire to find this out quickly.

[Dimers]

That the vampire is weak doesn't mean it's utterly and completely useless. It does mean that it's markedly worse than literally every other class in the game.

Eh? I'd put bladesinger at the bottom of the pile, myself.

Vampire is not a weak class. They have an ick factor and if you want optimization, you have to go outside the class to get it. The 1st is a social player issue, the 2nd is something that's easy to do in 4e. But they're not weak.

Different strokes, I guess. Lower-than-average defenses, powers without status effects, creepingly slow advancement in effectiveness, extremely restricted in-class options and having the only class feature that's an active drawback is "weak" to me. Their utilities are nothing to write home about either.

[masteraleph]

Eh? I'd put bladesinger at the bottom of the pile, myself.

Different strokes, I guess. Lower-than-average defenses, powers without status effects, creepingly slow advancement in effectiveness, extremely restricted in-class options and having the only class feature that's an active drawback is "weak" to me. Their utilities are nothing to write home about either.

Eh, to be fair, the "active drawback" is mitigated by the suggestion that they just wear a cloak. And the healing surge mechanism actually puts them in a position to use a lot fewer surges than most PCs, in the end.

The biggest difference is that MwaO tends to assume that Vampire basically just gives you a durable chassis on which to stick Flame Spiral + Demonskin Adept/Rain of Blows + Shock Trooper/Paladin MC + Call of Challenge + Racial Sanction Feat + Valorous Smite/max out MBA. That is, you take the tricks that other PCs use for optimizing and poach them, with the Vampire functioning, effectively speaking, as a super-theme that gives you ridiculous durability.

[Kurald Galain]

Eh? I'd put bladesinger at the bottom of the pile, myself.

Sure, that's also a contender. As I recall it has better damage and better utility than the vamp, though. For that matter the sentinel is another contender. But the vamp is the only class for which the class guide on the WOTC Optimization Board consisted of only a couple dozen posts of "DO NOT PLAY!"

That is, you take the tricks that other PCs use for optimizing and poach them, with the Vampire functioning, effectively speaking, as a super-theme that gives you ridiculous durability.

And that is assuming that (1) this is a high-op game, which judged by the OP is not the case here; (2) the DM will let you get away with every trick in the book, which is much less common than forums tend to assume; (3) the game plays in paragon tier in the first place, which most games (according to WOTC) do not; and (4) you can get exactly what equipment you want, whereas the "heroes of" ruleset (you know, where the vampire is from) assumes randomized loot instead.

[MeeposFire]

Eh? I'd put bladesinger at the bottom of the pile, myself.



Different strokes, I guess. Lower-than-average defenses, powers without status effects, creepingly slow advancement in effectiveness, extremely restricted in-class options and having the only class feature that's an active drawback is "weak" to me. Their utilities are nothing to write home about either.

Nah a bladesinger can be made to deal some pretty decent damage among other things it just does not do what it says will do (it really does better as a striker than a controller and is better if you build it that way though it often means going with strength or some other stat than int). Not saying it is great but I do nto have it as the the very bottom. I still think that it belongs to the binder. You can do the class better with the same powers by and large by playing a standard warlock. THe binder should just not exist as is.

[Yakk]

I wonder if I could design a binder based off the chassy of the warlock.

Ok, first we need some room for power. So I'll steal Warlock's Curse, Pact Boon and ... Daily Powers.

Binder makes me think of Bound Souls or Spirits. So we'll add some mechanics around that. We want a controller.

So we'll replace the selection of daily powers with Soul Binds. They create encounter-long effects that add riders to all of your powers.

Your Pact Boon will vary with the active Soul Bind.

We'll use Warlock's Curse space to give you some at-will Soul Binds you can use.

Soul Binds (daily ones) should give a burst of power when you activate or deactivate them somehow. I like the idea of it being when they deactivate, but that back-ends power a bit much. Maybe it would work. Maybe some pact boons would involve expending the Soul Bind for an extra boost.

The at-will Soul Bind acts like a subclass. Binder of Darkness might grant blindsight, and create zones of darkness on-hit. Pact Boon might blind enemies in zones of darkness. Binder of Grasping makes all of your powers slow the target, pact boon might slide enemies.

I think that would work and give you a controller feel to a Warlock while sharing at-will and encounter powers.

[MeeposFire]

I wonder if I could design a binder based off the chassy of the warlock.

Ok, first we need some room for power. So I'll steal Warlock's Curse, Pact Boon and ... Daily Powers.

Binder makes me think of Bound Souls or Spirits. So we'll add some mechanics around that. We want a controller.

So we'll replace the selection of daily powers with Soul Binds. They create encounter-long effects that add riders to all of your powers.

Your Pact Boon will vary with the active Soul Bind.

We'll use Warlock's Curse space to give you some at-will Soul Binds you can use.

Soul Binds (daily ones) should give a burst of power when you activate or deactivate them somehow. I like the idea of it being when they deactivate, but that back-ends power a bit much. Maybe it would work. Maybe some pact boons would involve expending the Soul Bind for an extra boost.

The at-will Soul Bind acts like a subclass. Binder of Darkness might grant blindsight, and create zones of darkness on-hit. Pact Boon might blind enemies in zones of darkness. Binder of Grasping makes all of your powers slow the target, pact boon might slide enemies.

I think that would work and give you a controller feel to a Warlock while sharing at-will and encounter powers.

That at least sounds like it would have important features that the standard warlock could not do which I think is important. IT would be like a slayer that had access to any fighter power rather than power strikes compared to a standard fighter. Even though they would have the same powers each would be very different due to important class features that define their role. Controller is the one role that has trouble with that since it is the one role that is predicated more on powers than class features in general. Your idea for the binder at least makes a set of powers more like a special class feature that would make the controller warlock have its niche.

[ScrivenerofDoom]

I had some questions about 4e and have 3 splat books my friend was selling his brothers old stough i got them.
I dont know how to play it
I do know what race id like to try buuut.
I dont know what class i want to try.
Its out of the heros of shadows book its the half vampire race from that splat i think theyre called vryloka. And maybe a paladin

I would also suggest asking around (hint, hint) for the offline versions of the DDi tools. It's much easier to build your character using the Character Builder. Similarly, the offline Compendium lets you search through all the options in a manner that is much faster than using the books.

Otherwise, 4E is played just like any version of D&D. The rules are different, of course, but it plays much the same way.

BTW, if you're playing low level characters the vampire from Heroes of Shadow isn't too bad. I'm not sure if you can make it work well past level 10 or so but, from 1-10, like the underrated bladesinger, it's rather effective.

[Verbannon]

Reading this thread makes me think the 4e players here are... dense. And for some reason talk about 4e like they were describing pathfinder. If you want to play 4e and are completely new at it, then ignore all the idiot advice you have gotten so far. And follow these steps.

1. Picture who you want to play in your mind. And dont hesitate to be creative or steal ideas from books and movies. You want to make Legolas, The Avatar, Goku or just a random nobody forced to become an adventurer. There are options for that. Superman is really the only character you cant model yours after. If you have no idea then feel free to pick randomly. Or you could look up the associated rp for each class and race and find what appeals to you.

2. Go to the Players handbok, the original, page 14 and follow those step by step instructions. Picking whatever fits closest to your concept. Get advice from people who know the game who can advise you on what options are closest to your concept. When you come to powers, unless there is something specific you want, then aim for powers with a wide range of effects, just make sure 1 at will is general purpose and one is situational.

And with feats just pick the first feat that seems to fit. Dont worry about the rest.

Any advice on whats strong, or weak ect is stupid and bad advice. The differences are minimal and subjected to their own opinion of what constitutes strong and weak.

Which from the sounds of it, seems to be based almost entirely on a class's ability to stack static bonuses. Which is a really bad way to view things. But doesnt matter as most DMs lack the tactical acumen to threaten with anything other than brutes and artillery.

[Dimers]

Reading this thread makes me think the 4e players here are... dense ... idiot advice ... stupid and bad ...

Insults are unnecessary, unenlightening, and generally against the culture of this board. Please give your opinion without them.

The differences are minimal and subjected to their own opinion of what constitutes strong and weak ... most DMs lack the tactical acumen to threaten with anything other than brutes and artillery.

Interesting that you choose to call out others' advice as subjective opinion and then follow it up with a subjective opinion.

In any case, some of us were aware that Sariel Vailo is not new to gaming or D&D, nor completely new to 4e. I've seen her posts in the PbP subforum and she was using experienced language in this thread. And so I chose to skip the more basic advice.

[Verbannon]

Insults are unnecessary, unenlightening, and generally against the culture of this board. Please give your opinion without them.



Interesting that you choose to call out others' advice as subjective opinion and then follow it up with a subjective opinion.

In any case, some of us were aware that Sariel Vailo is not new to gaming or D&D, nor completely new to 4e. I've seen her posts in the PbP subforum and she was using experienced language in this thread. And so I chose to skip the more basic advice.

Niether you or anyone else who felt insulted by the dense comment was included in the 'most' so dont worry about it.

And my subjective comment was different, because it was superficial. Delete it and it has no impact on my post. Mostly its there because its bad form to end on a point.

And if she does run into a compent DM, she has ten levels to get better at tactics before she loses the heroic tier 60/40 advantage.

As to whether or not she is a true noob, in my subjective opinion, anyone who has never played 4e is a true noob. Better no experience in other D&D then some. Since that just means you have to unlearn things.

[Bounty Hunter]

People enjoy different aspects of RPGs. People have different opinions on things.

Both are okay.

No need to show up, insult people, and act like people are playing the game wrong just because they do it differently than your preferred method.

[Sariel Vailo]

For 4e pbp i was actually hoping to have someone dm so i can learn to play same with pathfinder in truth. Ive only played fifth eddition and i usually play . bladesingers and bards drows usually.i like to sing and love social interactions. Same with a naruto game id love to do that again.

[MeeposFire]

For 4e pbp i was actually hoping to have someone dm so i can learn to play same with pathfinder in truth. Ive only played fifth eddition and i usually play . bladesingers and bards drows usually.i like to sing and love social interactions. Same with a naruto game id love to do that again.

Well good news for you in that bards are fantastic in 4e. Definitely fun in combat and out of combat. Also very effective if you are worried about that.

[Wasteomana]

Not sure it has been addressed yet, but if you are looking to play a 4e game, you are welcome to join us over at the Guild. (PM me for a link)