Buffy vs. Ryu

[Red Fel]

Of course we also got the problem that a Hadouken vary about as much in power as Buffy's slayer strenght has. A least depending on what movie you look at. I guess the lowest possible setting might only serve to knock Buffy back. Though that is in itself a advantage for Ryu. He does have superior reach, but a disadvantage in strenght.

Well, not entirely true, either. I mean, true that Ryu has a disadvantage in strength, but not entirely true that he has superior reach. Remember, Buffy can lift and throw big, heavy things. Like Olaf's hammer. If either of them gets knocked through a wall, Buffy can pick up pieces to throw at Ryu. Yes, he can Hadouken whenever he wants, but if there is anything laying around, she can use that. Not elegantly, but she can. And that does somewhat negate his ranged advantage.

So, what else can Ryu bring? Again, this is non-Dark-Ryu. Well, his common techniques include:

• Hadouken. We've covered that - chances are it won't do much.
• Shoryuken. It can be pretty damaging, but leaves the user open - against an unknown like Buffy, using it is too risky.
• Tatsumaki. A really good way of closing range, actually. And it would probably knock Buffy through a wall or something. On the other hand, at close range, Buffy probably has a strength advantage, so that's to be avoided.

And that's... Mostly it. Fireball, uppercut, spinning kick. Only two of those are actually ranged, and only one of them maintains that range. And while Buffy may not have techniques per se, "I rip this lamppost out of the ground and swing it at you" doesn't need to have an attack name, and makes up for that lack of reach.

[thorgrim29]

Not really a street fighter fan but from what I know I'd give the first encounter to Ryu and every one afterwards to Buffy (until he leaves for a few months to do some secret dangerous training and comes back to kick her ass and eventually they become friends). Ryu Hayabusa on the other hand.... Now that would be a fight and a half.

[lord_khaine]

Well, not entirely true, either. I mean, true that Ryu has a disadvantage in strength, but not entirely true that he has superior reach. Remember, Buffy can lift and throw big, heavy things. Like Olaf's hammer. If either of them gets knocked through a wall, Buffy can pick up pieces to throw at Ryu. Yes, he can Hadouken whenever he wants, but if there is anything laying around, she can use that. Not elegantly, but she can. And that does somewhat negate his ranged advantage.

So, what else can Ryu bring? Again, this is non-Dark-Ryu. Well, his common techniques include:

*Hadouken. We've covered that - chances are it won't do much.
*Shoryuken. It can be pretty damaging, but leaves the user open - against an unknown like Buffy, using it is too risky.
*Tatsumaki. A really good way of closing range, actually. And it would probably knock Buffy through a wall or something. On the other hand, at close range, Buffy probably has a strength advantage, so that's to be avoided.

With superious reach i actually mean that he is likely a couple heads taller than she is. It means he has much longer arms and legs, it gives him a massive advantage because she need to close in without taking a damaging hit.
And i dont ever recall seeing her display the sort of super strenght that she would need to use random bits of masonry to anything meaningful. Yes, she is supernaturally strong, but she isnt that strong. She is certainly not strong enough to fight with a lamppost.

I also dont agree on Hodouken and Shoryuken. Shoryuken is more or less a finishing move if it connects cleanly. As i recall it did give Sargat a massive scar on his chest.
Hodouken meanwhile, will at least either be enough to knock either Buffy down, or hurt her meaningfully, depending on its strength. And it does mean that there isnt any such thing as a safe distance for Buffy to gather her thoughs and form a strategy.

[Tvtyrant]

Ryu has a big advantage in deciding range, as he can throw a fireball and then use a dash skill to get into melee then fireball-dash back out if it get hairy.

Buffy is probably strong enough to throw big things at people, she just won't. Buffy doesn't even use weapons beyond a stake in most battles, even when she has a magic hammer that can maul a demon god (seriously do they lose that thing or what??)

That is one of the long running trends of the buffy verse, she relies on Xander, Giles and Willow to be innovative for her while she punches things. I am reasonably certain they would give her a suit of magic samurai armor or a lasso to use in the second fight, it is the first one where Ryu actually has a shot.

[Kyberwulf]

Like I said though, I think it's a little unfair you gave Buffy her team, against one dude. I give this to Ryu all the time, if it was always 1v1. In essence, it almost seems like you knew Buffy didn't stand a chance alone, hence the inclusion of the Scoobs.

Seeing how it's the team aspect of the show, that gives Buffy her true strength.

I mean, it is a little harder to know what kind of help Ryu would get though. I mean in cannon he seldom works with other people. I would say Ken, Ryu, Chun-li, and Guile tend to be the ones that are shown to work together more often.

[Traab]

We need to get back to ryu durability feats. What can he tank and what has taken him down?

Kyberwulf

Re: Buffy vs. Ryu
LOL, how many times did Buffy fall victim to the bad guys? Heck not even people powerful enough just to put a whammy on her? How many guys just talked her into doing stuff? Buffy does this all the time. The only reason she survives is because she has friends to help her out.

I do believe Buffy betrayed the organization also.. not only that got one watcher fired and one watcher to also betray the organization? Not to mention, Buffy isn't the only one special enough to walk away from the slayer stuff? Not only that, Buffy betrays the people that follow her so many times.... .

Fighting, protecting.... tomato tomahto. .. You have a weird definition of the word.. dedication. She does it.. because she has to. Usually, only when someone she knows is affected. There are countless times when she finds out something is happen. And she would rather go do something else banal. How many deaths is she responsible for, becaue she stood by after finding out something is happening and she did nothing. Not only that, she was talking about boys, or shopping.

Ryu is the opposite...I don't think he would do anything to Buffys family. Even if he found out Bison did something or some other thing. He wouldn't care. IT's most of the other characters in street fighter that are actively fighting Bison. Ryu is just walking getting into fights, trying to become the best.

Ryu is dedicated... Buffy is the definition of irresponsible.


You're point about her being special is kind of moot. She isn't special because of anything she did or is. She is possessed by something else. meaning it is the thing giving her powers.

Sure her having a life outside of being a slayer is what saves her sometimes. It's also what puts other people at risk, even the network that is out there. How many times has she let the ones she loves influence who she saves?

Im not quite sure what you mean by "fall victim to the bad guys" You mean get beat up? It happened from time to time, generally only against the seasons big bad. She might take a few bad shots from random baddies, but at most it might force her to retreat and come back later to finish the fight.

She never betrayed the watchers council, those arrogant puffed up pieces of garbage betrayed her... alot. She fell through the cracks and wasnt identified until after she became the slayer, she was basically left twisting in the wind after her first watcher died, then the next one shows up after she gets out of the loony bin and basically forces her back into the life of a slayer. The council itself snubbed the heck out of her, hid the existence of kendra and then faith, put her through that crucimentium test where they rob her of her powers and force her to fight an extra strong vamp in whats pretty much meant to be a method of slaughtering slayers who start to get too old to be controlled. Then they try to play power games with her over glory, withholding information she needs to stop a hell goddess from killing her sister unless she submits to their will. The old council sucked and it was an act of good that they pretty much all died so the slyer and her crew could rebuild it as something better.

Fairly few after the earliest season back when she was still reeling from her two years in a loony bin over burning down a gym to stop vampires. Yes she wanted to have a life, but when a situation sprang up, she stepped up. Not always right away but she did. And her biggest failure was not stopping angelus sooner which any reasonable person could understand. Also yes, fighting and protecting are two different motivations entirely. Kendra went out and fought. She didnt care about much of anything but hunting down amps her watcher pointed her towards. Buffy didnt go out seeking random fights, she only sought out fights (outside patrols) when there was a specific threat to face.

It was a hypothetical about ryu going after dawn, just something to provide an excuse for buffy to go all out.

[Chen]

Some of Ryu's feats seem to be here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthre...6t&sh=5d77bc7c

The bottom of that there are links that I can't see at work (imgur). Not sure how some compare. In terms of strength the one that says something about making a crater with a punch seems like a pretty big feat of strength, but I'd have to see the pic to know. The lifting a boulder one too, depending on the size of the boulder.

[Red Fel]

Some of Ryu's feats seem to be here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthre...6t&sh=5d77bc7c

The bottom of that there are links that I can't see at work (imgur). Not sure how some compare. In terms of strength the one that says something about making a crater with a punch seems like a pretty big feat of strength, but I'd have to see the pic to know. The lifting a boulder one too, depending on the size of the boulder.

Problems with the crater: First, it's not a crater, really; it's a small hole in which a person could kneel, not much larger than Ryu. Second, he used the Satsui no Hado, and we've explicitly left Dark Ryu out of this.

Now, the boulder image is a better one. The rock is several times Ryu's size, and he's holding it directly over his head (with an adult perched on top). It's also questionable whether this counts as Dark Ryu - yes, Ryu is accessing the Satsui no Hado, but he's being trained to harness that power without yielding to his darker impulses.

On the other hand, that link also shows an image of Ryu dodging bullets at or near point-blank range, which, if true, means his reaction speed is incredible, and likely well beyond what Buffy can pull off. Given that the real test of this fight is who can land a devastating blow first, his ability to no-sell an attack like that gives Ryu a significant advantage.

[Jan Mattys]

Problems with the crater: First, it's not a crater, really; it's a small hole in which a person could kneel, not much larger than Ryu. Second, he used the Satsui no Hado, and we've explicitly left Dark Ryu out of this.

Not arguing about the dark Ryu part, but I'd argue that it's not a small hole.
Or, it is, but I'd say it is still more than enough force to make a head go "splotch" if hit.

[Red Fel]

Not arguing about the dark Ryu part, but I'd argue that it's not a small hole.
Or, it is, but I'd say it is still more than enough force to make a head go "splotch" if hit.

That's a fair point, although I'd qualify it - enough force to make a normal head go "splotch." We've established that neither Buffy nor Ryu falls into that range. Both have taken hits that would pretty much kill most people, and shrugged them off.

I'll agree that it's an impressive feat of strength. But it's hardly, say, a crater. I think that, I think big hole in the ground, Vegeta-dropping-Android-19-style. The kind you actually have to climb out of. What Ryu did... Wasn't that.

[Lemmy]

Ryu (like most of the SF cast) is not just some guy that can chuck fireballs and do a few flashy moves... He's a very skilled warrior who often displays super-human strength, speed and durability. Of course, since it's a fighting game franchise, there are fewer cinematics than most other games. Still, Ryu is able to fight on par with Wolverine,
lift really heavy rocks (supposedly made heavier by the super-powerful telekinetic hermit on top of it), shoot giant rays of energy and... if you look long enough into game intros, endings and other cinematics, pulls some serious shonen anime bull**** action.

And that's all BEFORE going into the whole Satsui no Hadou mess...

Buffy is waaaaaaaaaaay out of her depth here.

EDIT: I gotta find the source on this, but I remember seeing canon information about ryu being able to dodge/deflect bullets, and that not being particularly impressive to the rest of the SF cast.

[TeChameleon]

Just wanted to toss out there that when I suggested that Buffy would mistake Ryu for a demon, I meant of the variety that was a clear and immediate threat to civilians (which wouldn't exactly be a hard mistake to make if he were mistaken for Akuma), which would move him from 'eh, he might be cool and froody' to 'put it down before it hurts anyone' in very short order.

Ryu is also (at least as far as my understanding goes) very much not a people person, so if Buffy popped out of nowhere and went Slayer on him, he would most likely act in a way that could easily be interpreted as 'you're not even worth killing' after he slapped her down, which would help fuel the misunderstanding.

I think that the general consensus is that, in the first confrontation, Ms. Summers would lose, and lose [i]hard[/b]. If Ryu didn't beat her unconscious, I'd be more than a little surprised, because that's how things work in Streetfighter-land. I think Ryu would be caught off-guard by the Slayer strength, and maybe durability, particularly since he almost certainly wouldn't be able to sense her ki.

That being said, I don't think the Slayer powers, as shown in the series, would be enough to take Ryu out. At least not in the first encounter. Street Fighter characters have comparable feats to Buffy in terms of striking power... aside from maybe her destructo-nookie that knocked down a house >.>... so I don't think she'd be able to cripple him with a lucky hit.

... although now that I think about it, most probably the whole mess would be resolved by Xander just... y'know, talking to Ryu, given that once a fight is over, as far as Ryu is concerned, things are over and done with, and there is no reason for any further aggression (and Xander is by far the most likely to approach and talk to an enemy who is behaving oddly but non-aggressively).

Of course, if Ryu continues to maintain that Dawn has to die, he's likely to fall under Buffy's definition of 'bad guy', with potentially fatal consequences to him, since I don't... think... Ryu has a lot of defenses against the Scoobies fetching up a rocket launcher or something. Or Giles and Willow ensorcelling him or whatever, immediately prior to Buffy showing up to remove his head in the most expedient fashion possible.

[Anteros]

That's a fair point, although I'd qualify it - enough force to make a normal head go "splotch." We've established that neither Buffy nor Ryu falls into that range. Both have taken hits that would pretty much kill most people, and shrugged them off.

I'll agree that it's an impressive feat of strength. But it's hardly, say, a crater. I think that, I think big hole in the ground, Vegeta-dropping-Android-19-style. The kind you actually have to climb out of. What Ryu did... Wasn't that.

Still, those scans do seem to indicate a level of strength far beyond what Buffy ever displays in the show.

[Kyberwulf]

Ryu isn't anti-social, think of him as Goku, without the stupid.

I think it's fine to bring in some mild Sasui no hado.. because people keep bringing up stuff from different seasons then 1-5 and comics for Buffy. And seeing how the Satsui no Hado is just Ryu willing to kill.

[Phobia]

If we go by the comics after the show than Buffy is even more competent and able to solve issues on her own accord so I don’t know why we’re giving her such a crippling reliance on her team that season 2 Buffy would have.

[HolyDraconus]

Pretty sure if we went with comics Buffy she should stomp. Her meeting with Angelus after the events of season 5 wasn't pretty, and Angelus was stated by the fiend himself to be the Devil's favorite, to the point that he will be brought back stronger than before..... And Buffy Merced him.

[Kyberwulf]

Lol. This doesn't seem like a Buffy vs. Ryu fight to some people, and more like a Ryu insertion fan fiction. Lol

Most of Buffys "victories" come from plot, rather than any real skills.

[Traab]

Lol. This doesn't seem like a Buffy vs. Ryu fight to some people, and more like a Ryu insertion fan fiction. Lol

Most of Buffys "victories" come from plot, rather than any real skills.

You do know ryu is also a fictional character who wins due to plot... right?

[The Glyphstone]

You do know ryu is also a fictional character who wins due to plot... right?

I thought Ryu wins by spamming down, down-forward, forward, punch repeatedly.

[Kyberwulf]

He doesn't really win though? Does he.

Street fighter, he loses to Sagat... the loses his cool he dirty guys him in the chest.

Alpha series he gets his butt kicked by Akuma and is told to train harder.

Street Fighter 2 I think Akuma kills bison.. or something... happens?

Then I think it goes street fighter 4. I don't know... the plot is all over the place. Lol

I know it isn't really Ryu that does much of anything except fight.

See that's the thing. Win or lose, Ryu isn't central to the plot. So he doesn't have as much plot armor going for him. Buffy on the other hand.. IS the show. So she has the Plot Armor.. and that's all she really has going for her. If you take that away from her. She doesn't have that much skill or experience going for her. I get the show. She is a young person that doesn't know how to deal with life and the responsibility that goes along with it. That's fine, it isn't a strength though. You shouldn't allow your feelings of sympathy to effect your ability to judge the outcome of a fictitious battle.

Do I like Buffy? Not really.. it doesn't mean I don't admit she's got some skills. However she doesn't put any effort into honing them.

Do I like Ryu? In the context of fighting games, sure he is good. As a character? Not really I find people that walk around the world getting into fights to prove who is the best, rather boring.

Honestly, if this was Kendra? I would say maybe. We aren't given enough to really assess her skill. (Yes, I know I said she was better then Buffy. I still think she is, and would have survived too, if she allowed herself the same level of resources as Buffy.)

If this was Faith? I would say yeah, she probably would win. She never holds back really. Again, if you take plot out of the equation, she could have kicked Buffy up and down the block. M

Who do I think would win in a fight? Sans plot, that says a character must live in order to have another episode later?

A person who neglects their training and skates by on luck.
OR
The person who travels around the world practicing the way to brutally beat people up?

[solidork]

Buffy for sure has mega invincibility frames while taunting.

[Tvtyrant]

Alternate version: Buffy and Ryu switch universes. Ryu now finds himself being attacked by monsters on all sides and befriended by people who break up long term relationships as a musical. Buffy finds herself bereft of friend power in a world where martial arts grants magical powers, and is being attacked by Bison's followers.

Does Ryu stay in Sunnytown to fight monsters or does he take off? How well does he do at being the Slayer replacement?

Can Buffy navigate the world of assassins and martial artists as well as she did monster slaying?

[HolyDraconus]

Alternate version: Buffy and Ryu switch universes. Ryu now finds himself being attacked by monsters on all sides and befriended by people who break up long term relationships as a musical. Buffy finds herself bereft of friend power in a world where martial arts grants magical powers, and is being attacked by Bison's followers.

Does Ryu stay in Sunnytown to fight monsters or does he take off? How well does he do at being the Slayer replacement?

Can Buffy navigate the world of assassins and martial artists as well as she did monster slaying?

Hmmm. I think Ryu would do fine up till he faces one of the myriad of brainjackers in buffyverse, and then be forced to succumb to the dark hado.

If this is Buffy after the the end of season 5, she loses to Bison. Otherwise, she doesn't make it that far.

[Anteros]

Alternate version: Buffy and Ryu switch universes. Ryu now finds himself being attacked by monsters on all sides and befriended by people who break up long term relationships as a musical. Buffy finds herself bereft of friend power in a world where martial arts grants magical powers, and is being attacked by Bison's followers.

Does Ryu stay in Sunnytown to fight monsters or does he take off? How well does he do at being the Slayer replacement?

Can Buffy navigate the world of assassins and martial artists as well as she did monster slaying?

Ryu would stick around for a short while until he beat the current season's big bad. Then he'd assume there was no more fight to be had there and leave.

Buffy might be able to beat Bison. He's arrogant, and she's good at making friends so she'd probably have Ken, Chun-Li, Guile, etc with her.

[Kyberwulf]

I think Ryu would lose, for the general reason slayers lose. He would be alone against a lot of powerful demons.

Buffy in Street Fighter land
...
...
I think her story would parallel Cammy's. Where she would be taken by Bison, after he found out about her physical abilities. Mind controlled and be broken out of the control and swear vengeance against him.

[TeChameleon]

*chuckle*

Ryu-as-Slayer would probably go down eventually, but I think he'd have a pretty good time getting there, given that all the fights would come to him. That being said, if the circumstances around the switch allowed him access to Buffy's support network, he might not do half-bad as the Slayer. I still don't think he's much of a people person- he's got a bit too much of the stoic-warrior-loner thing going on to really play well with others- but he's certainly not stupid, and friendly people who know this new world he's suddenly been dumped into are probably not going to get chased off.

... can you imagine Willow with access to ki abilities, or Faith with training in Shotokan karate? Could seriously mess up some of the baddies, I'm thinking.

Buffy in the Street Fighter universe... hoo, boy.

Honestly, first thing that pops to mind for me is that Dan Hibiki latches on to her for one reason or another, and ends up guiding her (with... varying degrees of success) through the colossal nonsense that is the Street Fighter storyline. If the Slayer powers actually do enable her to learn martial arts techniques far faster than ordinary people, she could become immensely powerful doing the World Warrior thing. Even if not, she could still potentially do alright for herself, but it would rely more heavily on her abilities to make friends rather than her ability to influence them.

[Tvtyrant]

If Ryu became a vampire, would he retain his ki powers? Because that sounds like a hilarious bad guy (although Dark Willow would still ace him).