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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Shadow Weave Feats

    Since it seems that Xanathar's will only have racial feats...

    Shadow Weave Adept
    You have learned to tap into the Shadow Weave, an alternate source of magical power. There are both benefits and penalties to this power.

    Prerequisite: Must be a spellcaster, cannot be a Wizard of the Evocation or Transmutation Colleges, cannot be a Celestial Pact Warlock, cannot be a Cleric of the Light Domain, and cannot have any divine power acquired from Mystra (if you want this feat and currently draw power from Mystra, you must be able to switch your divine source from Mystra to Shar to gain this feat). You cannot take levels in the listed sub-classes nor acquire divine power from Mystra after you take this feat.

    Benefit:

    • You cannot cast any spell with the sole function of producing light or that deals radiant damage, use divine smite, use an action or bonus action to create such magical effects using any magical item, or attune to magical items with similar effects (such as a Sun Blade). You can still use spells and items that create flame and such flame may produce light (such as the produce flame cantrip or a Flame Blade). You do not gain any special opportunity to replace spells known if you lose the ability to cast them, but can still change which spells are prepared or swap spells known during level-up as normal to your class.
    • You can use Shadow Weave Items with no ill effect. (For those without this feat, they should all function as cursed items of some sort.)
    • Depending on the campaign, you may be unaffected by dead magic or wild magic zones, as in the Forgotten Realms most such zones only effect one of the Weave or Shadow Weave and not both. The spell antimagic field and similar effects (such as the gaze of a Beholder's central eye) still effects you and your spells normally regardless.
    • You can see normally in darkness, both magical and nonmagical, to a distance of 120 feet.
    • You learn the darkness spell as a bonus spell known that does not count against any normal limits of spells known or spells prepared; if you do not yet have any second level spell slots, you must wait until you gain at least one second level spell slot before you can benefit from this bonus spell known. In addition, maddening darkness, shadow blade, and shadow of moil are added to all of your spell lists.
    • Your Spell Attack and Spell Save DC are increased by 1 for Enchantment, Illusion, and Necromancy spells.
    • Your Spell Attack and Spell Save DC are reduced by 1 for Evocation and Transmutation spells. In addition, Evocation and Transmutation spells are more difficult to enhance, requiring a spell slot one level higher for any given higher level effect (for example, a magic missile must use a spell slot of 3rd level for one additional dart, 4th level for two additional darts, etc), and one additional sorcery point to apply any metamagic effect (except for subtle spell) to them. This limitation does not apply to darkness, darkvision, or maddening darkness.
    • Wizards who take this feat must spend twice as much gold and time as normal to copy Evocation or Transmutation spells into their spellbook (except for darkvision or maddening darkness).
    • You ignore any Magic Resistance trait of any creature which does not have this feat or a similar connection to the Shadow Weave. This benefit does not apply to spells you cast from the Evocation or Transmutation schools.
    • Checks made to counter or dispel your spells (such as by counterspell or dispel magic) by any creature which does not have this feat or a similar connection to the Shadow Weave have disadvantage against spells those spells must normally make a check against, and must make a check (albeit not with disadvantage) against spells they normally don't need to make a check against (the property of the daylight spell allowing it to dispel magical darkness is unaffected). This benefit does not apply to spells you cast from the Evocation or Transmutation schools (except for darkness, darkvision, and maddening darkness).
    • Divination spells by any creature which does not have this feat or a similar connection to the Shadow Weave cannot detect your spells nor penetrate them (such as their see invisibility vs your invisibility) without first completing a spellcasting ability check against your spell save DC. This benefit does not apply to spells you cast from the Evocation or Transmutation schools (except for darkness, darkvision, and maddening darkness). Spells that involve divine intervention may bypass this at DM discretion.
    • Intelligence (Arcana) checks to identify your magical effects made by any creature which does not have this feat or a similar connection to the Shadow Weave have disadvantage.

    Special: Shadow Sorcerers can take this feat as a bonus feat at their first level of Shadow Sorcerer; doing so means they cannot learn Evocation or Transmutation spells at all within the Sorcerer class (however they do still learn darkness as a bonus spell known and can still cast it once you have second level spell slots, as well as from the Eyes of the Dark class feature; in addition, they can still choose to learn the spells darkvision and maddening darkness even with this feat, and may learn other evocation and transmutation spells from other classes).


    Shadow Weave Hunter
    You have learned to sense and counter those who have defiled themselves with the Shadow Weave.

    Prerequisite: Must be proficient in Arcana. You must worship Mystra, cannot have the Shadow Weave Adept feat, and cannot be a Shadow Sorcerer. You lose the benefits of this feat if you ever violate these prerequisites with no replacement.

    Benefit:
    • If you take the appropriate action to identify a spell (such as a reaction to identify a spell that is being cast, or the appropriate action to identify an ongoing spell effect) you instantly recognize if the spell in question was or is being cast by someone with the Shadow Weave Adept feat. This works regardless of whether or not you succeed at the check to identify the spell, but the action must still be taken to recognize the presence of the Shadow Weave.
    • You may use a variant of the detect magic ritual which only detects (the presence of, not the college of) magical effects created by those with the Shadow Weave Adept feat. If your level is higher than that of the caster, the DM should make a Wisdom check for you in secret against the spellcaster's spell save DC +5 to detect the presence (but not the college or divination-defeating nature) of divination-defeating magics (such as nondetection) cast by a creature with the Shadow Weave Adept feat; this check should only be attempted once per day per effect.
    • You do not suffer disadvantage on Intelligence (Arcana) checks to identify magical effects created by those with the Shadow Weave Adept feat.
    • You can counter and dispel spells cast by those with the Shadow Weave Adept feat and ignore their normal benefit against these spells.
    • You may cast either counterspell or dispel magic (one or the other, not one of each, and at their default level only) against a spell cast by someone with the Shadow Weave Adept feat using Wisdom as the spellcasting ability, and you may add your proficiency bonus on any required checks (note you cannot add your proficiency bonus to other dispel or counter checks unless you gain the ability to do so otherwise, such as by a Abjuration Wizard's Improved Abjuration class feature). This cannot be used against any other magical effect, and is wasted if you attempt to use it against any other magical effects. Once this ability is used, you cannot use it again until you have completed a long rest.
    • Your divination spells ignore the normal benefit of the Shadow Weave Adept feat against divination magics.
    • Divination spells cast by those with the Shadow Weave Adept feat have difficulty detecting you as well as detecting or piercing your spells (such as their see invisibility vs your invisibility), requiring the Shadow Weave user to make a spellcasting ability check with disadvantage against a DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier or fail to detect you or your spells or pierce your spells. Spells that involve divine intervention may bypass this at DM discretion.


    (Note: DM's can feel free to assign this feat as an automatic feature to all Shadow Sorcerers if desired. Also, feel free to exempt spells that deal Cold damage if appropriate to your campaign from the ban on evocation spells for such sorcerers.)
    (Second Note: If you'd rather use other deities, this can be adapted to tie into a different pantheon as desired or even be used as a secular alternative form of power. I must admit I kind of like the idea of Vecna creating a similar Shadow Weave effect myself, with one or more of Boccob, Wee Jas, maybe even Zagyg as the patrons of the Shadow Weave Hunters.)
    EDIT: 2nd draft, reworded a few things including the title for clarity, and a few balance tweaks.
    EDIT 2: Implemented suggested changes, plus added a divine intervention caveat and slightly reworded the "penetrate your spells" example.
    EDIT 3: Fixed my slip between missiles and darts in my evocation example, set the Shadow Weave Hunter abilities to Wisdom as they're supposed to be divinely inspired and I'd also forgotten to set the special once per day dispel or counter ability earlier, and added in that the special detect magic ritual doesn't detect any effect's college while allowing it a small chance to detect the presence of divination-defeating magics; also added Arcana proficiency to the Hunter prereqs. Finally I decided to slightly nerf just how powerful the anti-divination effect of the Shadow Weave is slightly (removed disadvantage, set it to your spell save DC instead of varying by spell level). There was some other miscellaneous rewording thrown around as well.
    EDIT 4: Xanathar's arrived in the mail, pertinent spells added, and made daylight exempt to the dispel defense.
    Last edited by Avigor; Yesterday at 07:18 PM.
    "The anger of a good man is not a problem. Good men have too many rules."
    "Good men don't need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many."
    5E: Shadow Weave feats
    3.5: Plague Carrier, like a Cancer Mage as a template | Chozo Warrior PrC, inspired by Metroid: Fusion

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Jun 2010

    Default Re: Shadow Weave Feats

    No comments? No thoughts on if it's under- or over-balanced?
    "The anger of a good man is not a problem. Good men have too many rules."
    "Good men don't need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many."
    5E: Shadow Weave feats
    3.5: Plague Carrier, like a Cancer Mage as a template | Chozo Warrior PrC, inspired by Metroid: Fusion

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

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    Default Re: Shadow Weave Feats

    I like your take on these; Shadow Weave Adept is very similar to the version I 'brewed up for a friend's FR campaign. A few comments, though:

    Quote Originally Posted by Avigor View Post
    Shadow Weave Adept
    • Checks made to counter or dispel your spells (whether by counterspell, dispel magic, or using daylight to counter your darkness spell) by any creature which does not have this feat or a similar connection to the Shadow Weave have disadvantage, and any spells used to dispel your spells treat your spells as one level higher than they actually are when determining whether a check is needed (but not for any other purpose including the check DC). This benefit does not apply to spells you cast from the Evocation or Transmutation schools (except for darkness and darkvision).
    Instead of treating a spell as a level higher for dispelling purposes, I'd change it so that it requires a dispel check if the spell would automatically be dispelled/countered or imposes disadvantage if the spell would normally require a check. That makes it actually have an effect on a caster's 0th-2nd level spells (which would otherwise be dispelled/countered normally) and put it more in line thematically with the Divination bullet point that adds a check to detect spells regardless of level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avigor View Post
    Shadow Weave Hunter
    • Your divination spells ignore the normal benefit of the Shadow Weave Adept feat against divination magics and can even pierce imprisonment, mind blank, nondetection, nystul's magic aura, private sanctum, and sequester spells cast by those who have the Shadow Weave Adept feat (albeit your divination spells can still be stopped by such spells from other casters, as well as by lead or similar defenses).
    The second part of this benefit doesn't make much sense. Yes, the character has specifically focused on countering the usual benefits of the Shadow Weave, but those spells aren't hard to defeat because they're Shadow Weave spells, they're inherently hard to beat; if Joe the Weave-Using Shadow Weave Hunter can't even divine a spell cast by Bill the Weave-Using Wizard if Joe is much higher-level than Bill and they're both using the power source with which Joe is most familiar, it shouldn't be easier for Joe to defeat a spell cast by Bob the Shadow Weave Adept even if Joe is much lower-level than Bob and he has no experience using the Shadow Weave himself. Only if the character already had some way to defeat the normal Weave versions would it make much sense, and even then it should be harder to defeat the Shadow Weave versions.

    Instead, I'd flip the benefit around and give the Shadow Weave Hunter the same benefit against Shadow Weave divinations that Shadow Weave Adepts have against Weave divinations. That fits the "hunter" aspect just as well (hunters have to be stealthy as well as perceptive) and is more broadly applicable overall.
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
    You can just call me Dice; that's how I roll.


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    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Shadow Weave Feats

    Done. Also added a divine intervention caveat cause it makes sense that gods don't have to play by the same rules.
    "The anger of a good man is not a problem. Good men have too many rules."
    "Good men don't need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many."
    5E: Shadow Weave feats
    3.5: Plague Carrier, like a Cancer Mage as a template | Chozo Warrior PrC, inspired by Metroid: Fusion

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Shadow Weave Feats

    Part of me is debating on whether the penalties to using higher level spell slots and metamagic with transmutation and evocation might be too much...
    "The anger of a good man is not a problem. Good men have too many rules."
    "Good men don't need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many."
    5E: Shadow Weave feats
    3.5: Plague Carrier, like a Cancer Mage as a template | Chozo Warrior PrC, inspired by Metroid: Fusion

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

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    Default Re: Shadow Weave Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Avigor View Post
    Part of me is debating on whether the penalties to using higher level spell slots and metamagic with transmutation and evocation might be too much...
    On the one hand, doubling the slots required for heightening is a bit exorbitant. On the other hand, the heightening benefits for Evocations are fairly weak to start with and few Transmutations have heightening benefits anyway, so it's not like people are spending all their highest-level slots on those spells often enough to make the penalty a crippling one.

    How about instead it's changed to make Evocations and Transmutations require +1 slot to heighten instead of double and say that they can't be cast out of your highest-level slots? That limits which spells can be heightened more than penalizing the caster for heightening at all.

    On the metamagic side, I'd say that a similar fixed +1 or +2 point cost is probably sufficient to convey the difficulty with casting those spells. You might even want to exempt Subtle Spell from that cost increase, as the sneaky Shadow-Weave-ness of that particular metamagic sort of outweighs the non-Shadow-Weave-ness of Evocation and Transmutation spells.
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
    You can just call me Dice; that's how I roll.


    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
    Won a cookie for this, won everything for this

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Shadow Weave Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    On the one hand, doubling the slots required for heightening is a bit exorbitant. On the other hand, the heightening benefits for Evocations are fairly weak to start with and few Transmutations have heightening benefits anyway, so it's not like people are spending all their highest-level slots on those spells often enough to make the penalty a crippling one.

    How about instead it's changed to make Evocations and Transmutations require +1 slot to heighten instead of double and say that they can't be cast out of your highest-level slots? That limits which spells can be heightened more than penalizing the caster for heightening at all.

    On the metamagic side, I'd say that a similar fixed +1 or +2 point cost is probably sufficient to convey the difficulty with casting those spells. You might even want to exempt Subtle Spell from that cost increase, as the sneaky Shadow-Weave-ness of that particular metamagic sort of outweighs the non-Shadow-Weave-ness of Evocation and Transmutation spells.
    Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't do the highest-level slots bit however...
    "The anger of a good man is not a problem. Good men have too many rules."
    "Good men don't need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many."
    5E: Shadow Weave feats
    3.5: Plague Carrier, like a Cancer Mage as a template | Chozo Warrior PrC, inspired by Metroid: Fusion

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Shadow Weave Feats

    Did some more tweaking, hope I didn't throw off the balance too much...
    "The anger of a good man is not a problem. Good men have too many rules."
    "Good men don't need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many."
    5E: Shadow Weave feats
    3.5: Plague Carrier, like a Cancer Mage as a template | Chozo Warrior PrC, inspired by Metroid: Fusion

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Shadow Weave Feats

    Received Xanathar's, pertinent spells added to exceptions and spell lists of Shadow Weave Adepts, also set daylight to be unaffected by the dispel defense. Debating on if any other nerfs are needed, and if I should just give daylight advantage on a forced check instead of making it ignore the dispel defense outright...
    "The anger of a good man is not a problem. Good men have too many rules."
    "Good men don't need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many."
    5E: Shadow Weave feats
    3.5: Plague Carrier, like a Cancer Mage as a template | Chozo Warrior PrC, inspired by Metroid: Fusion

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