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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Sep 2013

    Default Sorcerous Blade Channeling + Acid Orb

    Can I use Acid Orb as a Melee Basic Attack?
    Live in Fear, Die Often: Dak
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Yakk's Avatar

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    Nov 2006

    Default Re: Sorcerous Blade Channeling + Acid Orb

    Ask your DM.

    Arguably no, and arguably yes.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Sep 2013

    Default Re: Sorcerous Blade Channeling + Acid Orb

    I thought so. I did but I'm new and was on the forum anyway (it's a pbp game). Thanks!
    Live in Fear, Die Often: Dak
    Boss Fight!: Rolf

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Dec 2017

    Default Re: Sorcerous Blade Channeling + Acid Orb

    i always saw it as you can, but cant speak for everyone

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Sorcerous Blade Channeling + Acid Orb

    Quote Originally Posted by Trippic View Post
    i always saw it as you can, but cant speak for everyone
    Ditto.

    It's happened a few times on the WOTC forums (back when that still existed) that some people who disliked a particular combo or perceived it as overpowered would not argue to ban it, but would think of a highly technical interpretation of the rules that invalidates the combo. The biggest example of this is probably Storm Pillar; it strikes me that SBC is another example of this.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
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    May 2017

    Default Re: Sorcerous Blade Channeling + Acid Orb

    I'd say no. The feat says you can use a ranged Sorcerer power as a melee attack if you use it through a Dagger.
    If you'd apply it to Acid Orb, you'd have a Ranged Basic Attack that can be used both at range, as well as in melee (in case your Warlord grants you an RBA when you're in somebody's face). It does not explicitly make it into a Melee Basic Attack, as that's not the same as a Ranged Basic Attack being used as a Melee attack.

    There's a Shadar-Kai racial feat that does what you're looking for though, Reaper's Touch, which explicitly calls out in its Acid Orb entry: "You can use it as a melee basic attack."
    That feat also adds Melee touch alongside its normal range possibility in order to not provoke. Though this has it's own hilarious consequence in that it doesn't replace the normal range when you use it as a Melee Basic Attack. So you can use your Melee Basic Attack at either Melee Touch... or Range 20 if you'd so prefer.

    So how I'd sum up the feats by strict RAW (unless I'm reading it incorrectly):
    Sorcerous Blade Channeling: RBA Ranged 20. RBA Melee Reach.
    Reaper's Touch: RBA Ranged 20. RBA Melee Touch. MBA Ranged 20. MBA Melee Touch.

    Keep in mind Sorcerous Blade Channeling is a lot more versatile as it works with multiple powers though. And it opens up a few extra feats you may want (probably not). That, and the 'MBA at Range' stuff in Reaper's Touch is just bad writing really. I'd personally allow it with it being a racially restricted feat and probably only useful for a handful of builds. I can't even think of that much. Mark abuse is out for the most part since both the Fighter's Combat Challenge and Tactial Warpriest PP's F16 have it only trigger on adjacent enemies anyway. Conversely, Sigil Carver PP's F16 already allows you to use your MBA at range, so that doesn't need it either. Generic OAs also don't work. The two things I can think of are charging whilst being nowhere near the enemy, and granted attacks when you're next to an enemy and want to hit somebody else and would otherwise risk an OA.


    There's a somewhat similar case that does actually work now that I think of it, with the Invoker's Divine Bolts. Staff of Channeled Invocations lets you use it as a Melee attack with range 1 (if you use it through a Staff). Power of Skill says that you can use Divine Bolts as a 'Basic Attack'. With both of those in effect, I believe you should indeed be getting Divine Bolts as a Basic Attack simply because Power of Skill doesn't explicitly call out 'Ranged Basic Attack'.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Yakk's Avatar

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    Nov 2006

    Default Re: Sorcerous Blade Channeling + Acid Orb

    The question "is Basic Attack separable from Ranged and Melee"?

    Ie, is a Ranged Basic Attack simply a Basic Attack that is Ranged, or not? Or is a RBA more than just a Ranged Attack that is Basic, and a concept all of its own?

    The next question is, if you are permitted to use a Ranged Attack which counts as a Basic Attack as a Melee Attack, does it remain Basic?

    Or, rather, if something says "This can be used as a Ranged Basic Attack" and it is a Ranged Attack, does that mean the same as "This can be used as a Basic Attack"?

    That is a reasonable position to take; hence, ask your DM.
    Last edited by Yakk; 2017-12-24 at 09:37 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sorcerous Blade Channeling + Acid Orb

    The spell says :

    "Special: Acid orb can be used as a ranged basic attack."

    So for me, you can't.
    There is the at-will spell Ensorceled Blade (Dragon Magazine 390) if you want. It's a melee weapon attack 1[W] (only a dagger), it sales on CHA and you can add your DEX/STR bonus to damages as your other spells and you can use it as a MBA.
    My dices'bucket is ready

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Jul 2011

    Default Re: Sorcerous Blade Channeling + Acid Orb

    I agree with highfeather.

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