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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    I've been working on new design which has the following goals:
    • Align all spellcasting classes to use short rest recovery mechanics. This will encourage short rests and significantly alter the external balance between pure martials and casters so that casters canít simply cast all of their spells in 1 encounter.
    • Use mana (spell points) instead of spell slots for all spellcasting classes.
    • Provide less duplication and more clarity to a userís character choice by providing a base class and archetypes (Mage -> Wizard/Magus, Acolyte -> Cleric/Paladin).
    • Allow more customization of classes via talents
    • Bring consistency to class progression. The 3 tiers of spellcasting are more defined (9th level casting, 5th level casting, and 4th level casting) with a slight variant for prepared vs spells known. Class features come at more consistently defined levels.


    Kryx's Houserules (Mana) (Draft)

    The class section starts on page 34 and there is a comparison of all the classes on page 35. The project is quite far along, but please feel free to provide your thoughts. Some small math bits still need to be checked, but it should be pretty solid.

    Thanks for any feedback provided.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryx View Post
    If anyone is interested in this see Kryx's Houserules (Mana) to view it and provide feedback. My group has started using these rules.

    I'll keep the older version available for others as well, just FYI.
    If you need a new name to replace either the Sorcerer class or the spellcaster name you could try 'Thaumaturge' (workers of wonder, magician), 'Medium' (from 'an intervening substance', since magic is a part of them (although this could be confused with someone able to see ghosts)), or you could just use the name 'Warlock'. There really aren't that many different names for spellcasters I'm afraid. Or, well, there are, but the vast majority of them aren't exactly applicable.

    EDIT: 'Magician' is another one, although that might be too bland. That and it might conflict with the name 'Mage'. 'Witch' might work as well. 'Diabloist' is a person who can perform sorcery (might be exactly what you're looking for!), to name a few more.

    EDIT2: Page 105, the ranger has Primal Strike page 110 the circle of the primeval claw gains Primal Strike. They use the same name. You might wwant to change the latter to 'Primeval Strike' to match the name of the circle.

    EDIT3: I've noticed things such as the Paladin smites increases damage per additional mana spent rather than each additional spell level. Is this the case for all the spells as well? If I cast burning hands spending 13 mana, will I get 11d6 more damage?
    Last edited by Terra Reveene; 2017-11-12 at 03:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Hey, thanks for taking a look.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terra Reveene View Post
    If you need a new name to replace either the Sorcerer class or the spellcaster name you could try 'Thaumaturge' (workers of wonder, magician), 'Medium' (from 'an intervening substance', since magic is a part of them (although this could be confused with someone able to see ghosts)), or you could just use the name 'Warlock'. There really aren't that many different names for spellcasters I'm afraid. Or, well, there are, but the vast majority of them aren't exactly applicable.

    EDIT: 'Magician' is another one, although that might be too bland. That and it might conflict with the name 'Mage'. 'Witch' might work as well. 'Diabloist' is a person who can perform sorcery (might be exactly what you're looking for!), to name a few more.
    I've found all of these names and rejected them for various reasons:

    • Thaumaturge "is the capability of a magician or a saint to work magic or miracles". It'd be more appropriate for a divine class
    • Medium is basically another name for psionics
    • Warlock has become known to be associated with the occult. It is one of the options, but not all encompassing.
    • Magician is already covered by the mage
    • Witch is quite niche
    • Diabolist is associated with devils. One subclass in our case

    I considered some like Spellbinder or other names, but none really fit. I'll likely keep Sorcerer for both the class and the caster archetype.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terra Reveene View Post
    EDIT2: Page 105, the ranger has Primal Strike page 110 the circle of the primeval claw gains Primal Strike. They use the same name. You might wwant to change the latter to 'Primeval Strike' to match the name of the circle.
    Circle is now named "Circle of the Claw" and the magical attacks named "Primal Claw".

    Quote Originally Posted by Terra Reveene View Post
    EDIT3: I've noticed things such as the Paladin smites increases damage per additional mana spent rather than each additional spell level. Is this the case for all the spells as well? If I cast burning hands spending 13 mana, will I get 11d6 more damage?
    Spells should scale via the normal progression. 2,3,5,6,7,9,10,11,13 works quite well. I should adjust Arcane Strikes, Smites, Primal Strikes, and Psychic Strikes to be explicit of the cost to increase.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Here's a few more. You've probably thought about most of these, but I figured just in case you've missed something: 'Invoker', 'Mystic', 'Arcanist', 'Ascendant', 'Sojourner', 'Mancer' (is there a word that you could add to the beginning of 'mancer' to make it encompass all the things a sorcerer could do I wonder...), 'Harbinger', 'Weaver' (magic is described as invisible threads if I don't misremember my facts, sorcerers are naturally able to pull on the threads, so it could fit), 'Savant', 'Herald' (from "a person or thing viewed as a sign that something is about to happen"), 'Shaper' (similar reasoning as 'Weaver').

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    What page is your Mana system on? I can't seem to find it. Might need to sleep, so maybe I'm just having trouble.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zap Dynamic View Post
    Ninjadeadbeard just ninja'd my post. How apt.
    Ninjadeadbeard's Extended Homebrew

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjadeadbeard View Post
    What page is your Mana system on? I can't seem to find it. Might need to sleep, so maybe I'm just having trouble.
    Each class with spellcasting (Acolyte, Mage, Minstrel, Naturist, Psionicist, Sorcerer) has Mana listed in their class features and has a archetypes with the amount of mana listed on those tables.

    It's spell points with a more thematic name. This version uses short rest recovery.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    I think that the "Kiss of Mephistopheles" Hexing Blade option should be renamed to "Blasting Hex", the reason being that to have the option be named after "Mephistopheles" is to kind of bind it to the Fiendish Sorcery Origin, rather than keeping it Origin neutral, as I think it should be, but that is just my take. Also, you goofed up on Page 14 of your draft, I can't see half the page. You also goofed up the format of the Celestial Sorcerous Origin on Page 141. I will also see what I can find in the way of alternate names for either the Sorcerer class or its full-caster archetype.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    And now for something completely different...a question, and that question is: could this "Mana" system be applied to the Monk, as it currently exists somewhere between a half-caster and a non-caster, which can sometimes get confusing?

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyWriter88 View Post
    I think that the "Kiss of Mephistopheles" Hexing Blade option should be renamed to "Blasting Hex", the reason being that to have the option be named after "Mephistopheles" is to kind of bind it to the Fiendish Sorcery Origin, rather than keeping it Origin neutral, as I think it should be
    Agreed with a more netural name for Kiss of Mephistopheles. I'll make the change in the next release.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyWriter88 View Post
    Also, you goofed up on Page 14 of your draft, I can't see half the page. You also goofed up the format of the Celestial Sorcerous Origin on Page 141.
    I'll fix these formatting issues in the next version, thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyWriter88 View Post
    And now for something completely different...a question, and that question is: could this "Mana" system be applied to the Monk, as it currently exists somewhere between a half-caster and a non-caster, which can sometimes get confusing?
    Monk, by RAW, is essentially a half caster. It could, potentially, allow for for a full caster, but that's be a lot of effort and possibly not the best design. Several problems:
    1. Monk powers all of his abilities via ki, not just spells
    2. Spell list size is currently very very limited. Doing it like I do the other classes would open up the options immensely (in a bad way imo)
    3. Monks are a mix between martial and spellcaster. They have 6 talents instead of 8 to account for the extra class features. A caster could probably keep 6, but it's definitely tricky.

    I think #1 and #2 prevent it from being a reality. Otherwise it could probably work.

    You also mentioned Hexblade power in a PM. There is a comparison on page 34. Hexblade should be comparable to the other melee casters. Armored Husk is just the same as the scale prof of the other classes, but more flavorful. Compared to the Ranger it has less mana attacks and regains hp when it crits or kills the hexed target. Should be comparable unless I'm missing something.

    Thanks for the feedback!

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Another note about the yet-to-be-named "Blasting Hex", and that is the spell in question. The way you have the the "Martial Magic" effects of the other half-casters allows them to be weapon neutral (melee or ranged), but "Blasting Hex" doesn't fit that. Having fireball be cast on a creature you hit with a bonded, melee weapon is just plain suicide, funny, but suicide. I haven't been able to come up with a good alternative, but I really don't think that the way it is now is a viable feature.

    EDIT: What I meant by "suicide" was intended more for other melee-focused allies, but I see that the way I typed it originally suggested that I was referring to the Hexblade themselves.
    Last edited by SkyWriter88; 2017-11-17 at 04:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyWriter88 View Post
    Another note about the yet-to-be-named "Blasting Hex"
    It was previously worded to not include you in the area.

    Though it has already been replaced with more suitable options:
    Blinding Hex. When you hit a creature cursed by your hex feature with your bonded weapon you can expend 5 or more mana to cause your weapon to become wreathed in shadow. The attack deals an extra 3d8 necrotic damage, plus an additional 1d8 for 6 mana and 7 mana. Additionally, the target must succeed on a Fortitude (Constitution) saving throw or be blinded for 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell).

    A creature blinded by this makes another Fortitude (Constitution) saving throw at the end of each of its turns. On a successful save, it is no longer blinded.

    Hindering Hex. When you hit a creature cursed by your hex feature with your bonded weapon you can expend 1 or more mana to hinder the target further. The target must make a Will (Charisma) saving throw against your sorcerer spell save DC. Whenever a target that fails this saving throw makes an attack roll or a saving throw before 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell), the target must roll a d4 and subtract the number rolled from the attack roll or saving throw.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Changes:
    • I've split the Sorcerer and Warlock again. I think there is enough difference to warrant two classes. The Occultist will focus on the secrets aspect of the Warlock fluff. The Occultist will have the Warlock and Hexblade archetypes. The Sorcerer will have the Sorcerer and a yet-to-be-determined martial archetype. There will be some crossover in their subclasses and talents, but not all.
    • Eidolon moved to only be available for the Occultist
    • Occultist is an intelligence based caster
    • Spells updated for XGtE
    • Minstrel's Magical Secrets removed as the concept fits the Occultist much better. Added Bardic Performance to the Minstrel in place of Melodic Inspiration. They can use it for a variety of effects. It also replaces several subclass 3rd level features.


    I'll need to decide on the martial archetype for the Sorcerer or cut it. If anyone has suggestions (Ideally from some old PF/D&D source) I'd be curious what you have in mind.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Talents: Just hoping for some clarification, i think I missed all the changes. Originally I think you got one at 1st, 5th and 9th character level. Now it looks class dependent, minimum level 3.
    Humans got Determination and a bonus Talent instead of a bonus feat. I really liked this, in particular the 1st level and human bonus, because I made Lineage traits. For example, there was Elven, Orc or Draconic bloodline, which gave Darkvision, but little or no other physical changes. Then Elven Ancestry which required the Elven Blood trait, and gave you Fey Ancestry racial(so only available to Humans, as they are the only ones that had two traits at level 1). That way Half-Elf and even Half-Orc didn't need to be a completely separate race. I know that's just me though.
    I was wondering if humans still got a bonus Talent, and if it was restricted to General or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryx View Post
    Occultist is an intelligence based caster
    Why was that? Getting power handed to you doesn't seem intelligence based.

    Trying to focus on the Sorcerer at the moment, but its taking some time jumping back to Occultist to find the origins.
    Some of the 1st level features of the various Patrons/Origins are...boring, for lack of a better term. And a little underpowered.
    Almost all have something really interesting. Some have a broad language(Sylvan, Celestial), and then an addition little ability that sets you apart from most(don't need sleep, don't need food, etc).
    Sea, Stone and Storm however, only have language(+adv). The language is also extremely limited. Unless you are lucky, or the DM is kind, there is a good chance it will never come into play unless you summon a creature that can speak that language.
    Sea could get free waterbreathing and/or swim speed. Storm could ignore vision and/or movement penalties due to wind/rain. Stone could ignore difficult terrain caused by rough/slippery earth.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugganaut View Post
    Talents: Just hoping for some clarification, i think I missed all the changes. Originally I think you got one at 1st, 5th and 9th character level. Now it looks class dependent, minimum level 3.
    You're talking about traits. Traits are not talents and traits are gone. Talents are basically Feats + Invocation type power ups for each class. ASIs no longer give feats.

    Talents are one of two progressions:
    2-8: Generally a spellcaster with limited features in the class
    1-6: Generally a martial with many features built into the class

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugganaut View Post
    I was wondering if humans still got a bonus Talent, and if it was restricted to General or something?
    Humans previously got a bonus trait. The latest races document published about a week ago contains the updated human:
    Ability Score Increase. Your ability scores each increase by 1.
    Age. Humans reach adulthood in their late teens and live less than a century.
    Alignment. Humans tend toward no particular alignment.
    The best and the worst are found among them.
    Size. Humans vary widely in height and build, from barely 5 feet to well over 6 feet tall. Regardless of your position in that range. your size is Medium.
    Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
    Determined. When you make an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw, you can reroll the roll, but before any effects of the roll are applied. Once you use this ability, you canít use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
    Skilled. You gain a proficiency in a skill of your choice.
    Subrace. Many subraces of human are found on golarion. Choose one of these subraces.
    ================

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugganaut View Post
    Why was that? Getting power handed to you doesn't seem intelligence based.
    https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/01/16...risma-casters/
    Some general quotes on the PHB Warlock:
    Warlocks are seekers of the knowledge that lies hidden in the fabric of the multiverse.
    Drawing on the ancient knowledge of beings ... warlocks piece together arcane secrets to bolster their own power.
    Warlocks are driven by an insatiable need for knowledge and power ...
    Your arcane research and the magic bestowed on you by your patron have given you facility with spells.
    In your study of occult lore, you have unearthed eldritch invocations, fragments o f forbidden knowledge that imbue you with an abiding magical ability.
    If you feel Charisma is the better choice for your group then feel free.

    ================

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugganaut View Post
    Trying to focus on the Sorcerer at the moment, but its taking some time jumping back to Occultist to find the origins.
    I realyl wanted to avoid duplicating the subclasses to both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugganaut View Post
    Some of the 1st level features of the various Patrons/Origins are...boring, for lack of a better term. And a little underpowered.
    Almost all have something really interesting. Some have a broad language(Sylvan, Celestial), and then an addition little ability that sets you apart from most(don't need sleep, don't need food, etc).
    Sea, Stone and Storm however, only have language(+adv). The language is also extremely limited. Unless you are lucky, or the DM is kind, there is a good chance it will never come into play unless you summon a creature that can speak that language.
    Sea could get free waterbreathing and/or swim speed. Storm could ignore vision and/or movement penalties due to wind/rain. Stone could ignore difficult terrain caused by rough/slippery earth.
    There is a comparison on page 154. 1st level features, across all classes, are meant to be minimal benefits to not front-load the classes. They are meant to be rather minimal as the classes get subclass features, archetype features, and spellcasting (page 31 details the progression of each).

    Also keep in mind that each subclass gets a cantrip at 1st level.

    These buffs should cover it though:

    Sea: Additionally, you are unhindered by nonmagical difficult terrain caused by water, and your vision is unhindered by any obscurement caused by moisture in the air or wind.
    Stone: Additionally, you are unhindered by nonmagical difficult terrain caused by dirt or unworked stone.
    Storm: Additionally, you are unhindered by nonmagical difficult terrain caused by water, and your vision is unhindered by any obscurement caused by moisture in the air or wind.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryx View Post
    You're talking about traits. Traits are not talents and traits are gone.
    Ah yes. Shame.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kryx View Post
    If you feel Charisma is the better choice for your group then feel free.
    Either/or by the looks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryx View Post
    These buffs should cover it though:

    Sea: Additionally, you are unhindered by nonmagical difficult terrain caused by water, and your vision is unhindered by any obscurement caused by moisture in the air or wind.
    Stone: Additionally, you are unhindered by nonmagical difficult terrain caused by dirt or unworked stone.
    Storm: Additionally, you are unhindered by nonmagical difficult terrain caused by water, and your vision is unhindered by any obscurement caused by moisture in the air or wind.
    Yep, looks perfect.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugganaut View Post
    Ah yes. Shame.
    There only a handful and they were basically existing feats that weren't strong enough. Those few were upgraded or changed to warrant them fitting into the talent box (effectively a half feat).

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    I remember back in the day I tried to create a half caster that I called "The Augur". It was basically a caster that could convert one of its arms into a weapon and make attacks with it. It might be something you could do for your martial part of the sorcerer.

    http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BJc1ZgdU

    Do note that the last time I visited it was a few years ago. So it's a bit (read 'very') rough around the edges. Still, if there's anything to your liking in it then feel free to use it.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    I made the sorcerer martial a "Battle Sorcerer" per http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...terClasses.htm

    Though it's a bit bland and perhaps the transforming direction set by the playtest is the better choice.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Suffused Sorcerer:
    Level 1 - Ritual Casting, Full Caster.
    Level 2 - Empowered Cantrips

    Battle Sorcerer:
    Level 1 - 2 Cantrips, Shield prof.
    Level 2 - Weapon Bond, Armored Husk, Spellweaving, Fighting Stance, Spellbound Strike.
    At level 1, the Battle Sorc is quite subpar, it has no 1+ spells and no features. Like a fighter with no armor prof, no second wind, no fighting stance, but two cantrips. If they are Str based, then their AC will be horrible, probably just the +2 from shield.
    At level 2 its very heavy on the features.

    I'd suggest moving Resilient/Armored Husk to the Archetypes, so they both get it at level 1(the way other classes get their armor, or Unarmored Defense).
    And I'd move Spellweaving to level 1 for Battle Sorc, as its the core of its combat.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Armored husk is only meant for the Battle Sorcerer. It is also not available to Occultists. Thos reasons and it being equivalent to armor proficiency are why it is where it is.

    I can't move Armored Husk earlier due to the structure of all classes. Waiting 1 level isn't so bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugganaut View Post
    And I'd move Spellweaving to level 1 for Battle Sorc, as its the core of its combat.
    Spellweaving is too strong for 1st level. The same is true for a Mage and Psionicist which have very similar abilities. Martial DPR jumps at 2, which is why this is at level 2. D&D 5e delayed features from 1st level and I follow that trend.


    Comparisons:
    1st level:
    Cleric: 16 AC, shield possible. 1 spell. Ritual Casting. Simple Weapons. 3 cantrips.
    Wizard: ~12-13 AC. 1 spell. Ritual Casting. Simple weapons. 3 cantrips.
    Suffused Sorcerer: ~12-13 AC. 1 spell. Ritual Casting. Simple weapons. 3 cantrips.

    Paladin: 16 AC, shield possible. 0 spells. Martial Weapons. 2 cantrips.
    Battle Sorcerer: ~16 AC, shield possible. 0 spells. Martial Weapons. 2 cantrips.
    Magus: ~16 AC, shield possible. 0 spells. Martial Weapons. 2 cantrips.

    2nd level:
    Cleric: 2 spells, Empowered Cantrips
    Wizard: 2 spells, Empowered Cantrips
    Suffused Sorcerer: 2 spells, Empowered Cantrips

    Paladin: 1 spell, Fighting Stance, Smite, Channel Divinity: Lay on Hands, Turn the Faithless, or Guided Strike
    Battle Sorcerer: 1 spell, Weapon Bond (fluff, minor utility), Spellweaving (damage similar to hunter's mark/hex, but scales), Fighting Stance, Spellbound Strike (with 2 mana)
    Magus: 1 spell, Weapon Bond (fluff, minor utility), Arcane Channeling (damage similar to hunter's mark/hex, but scales), Fighting Stance, Arcane Strike (with 2 mana)

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryx View Post
    Armored husk is only meant for the Battle Sorcerer.
    I meant move them to their respective archetypes. Suffused would get Resilient, Battle would get Armored.

    Looks like the changes work nicely.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugganaut View Post
    I meant move them to their respective archetypes. Suffused would get Resilient, Battle would get Armored.
    I edited the above - couldn't move it as desired.

    Perhaps I can use your method and remove the 2nd level feature on the sorc.... hmm..

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    I like this quite a bit, but one thing still saddens me....death clerics still are not as good at reanimating the dead as mages (wizards), and in such a customizeable system I feel there should be more than one option to make an undead minion-master/other classes beyond mage/wizard should be able to be good at it if built to do so. While you can do whatever you want with this, I'd personally either add a cleric talent that gives them undead bonuses comparable to the mage/wizard's, or give the mage/wizard a different 6th level feature and have the undead buff be a common talent shared between acolyte/cleric and mage. Other than that, I love this...it's very well done!

    BTW, my personal advice for an Acolyte talent for undead buffing would be as-follows:

    Desecrate
    Prerequisite: Cleric, non-good alignment, at least 3rd level
    Benefits: You can perform a 10 minute ritual that taints a 30ft radius location, empowering reanimation spells you cast there. When you complete this ritual, for the next 24 hours spells you cast there that create one or more undead creatures (Such as Animate Dead or Create Undead) gain the following additional effects:

    • If this spell is Animate Dead, it can target 1 additional corpse or bone pile and create 1 additional skeleton or zombie. (as applicable)
    • The undead this spell creates increase their hit point maximums by your Acolyte level.
    • The weapon attacks of the undead this spell creates deal an additional 1d4 damage of the type they deal normally. At 14th level, this additional damage increases to 1d8.


    Note that this talent should be exclusive to acolytes, so Mages can't stack this and undead thralls for super-minions.
    Last edited by Giegue; 2017-11-19 at 02:17 PM.
    According to easydamus, in D&D I'd be:

    A Lawful Good Human Cleric 3. (Str 12 Dex 13 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 16 Cha 14)

    Take the test yourself to see your results: http://easydamus.com/character.html

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    First of all, thanks for checking out the project and providing feedback!

    Quote Originally Posted by Giegue View Post
    I like this quite a bit, but one thing still saddens me....death clerics still are not as good at reanimating the dead as mages (wizards)
    You'll notice that there is no Necromancy Tradition for Wizards. I've been considering bringing it back in another form, but I agree with you that Mages shouldn't be the best necromancers - divine characters (Acolytes) should.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giegue View Post
    I feel there should be more than one option to make an undead minion-master/other classes beyond mage/wizard should be able to be good at it if built to do so.
    There are several spells now that raise zombies/skeletons. Several added via XGtE. Acolytes can do it quite well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giegue View Post
    have the undead buff be a common talent shared between acolyte/cleric and mage.
    I've been debating if such a buff should even exist. I'd have to evaluate the spell's effectiveness more before deciding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giegue View Post
    Other than that, I love this...it's very well done!
    Thanks!

    If anyone has some analysis on raising undead spells I'd be curious to read them.



    On the Sorcerer topic:
    Resilient Husk is equivalent to Arcane Deflection (2nd level). It is basically a free spell slot (Mage Armor) while the Mage gets a reaction to add +2 to AC.
    Armored Husk is equivalent to Armor proficiency (1st level).

    Armored Husk is reliant on Resilient Husk and really the Battle Sorcerer has no 2nd level class feature that the Magus/Paladin/Soulknife/Hexblade does.
    I'll need to fix these issues - and possibly change the Battle Sorcerer to be more of a transformer.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Dec 2009

    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Yeah, I saw that the tradition of necromancy was omitted, but then under the general list of tradition features, Necromancy was still listed. If your intent is for acolytes to be the better necromancers, you should remove the refrence to the wizard necromancy school in the mage entry as its confusing to not have it as a school choice, but then list the levels it gets its features and the features it gets. However, if you go the route of not having the necromancy school exsist as it is written in the PHB and either omitting it entirely or brining it back in a form not related to minion control, than either of those routes is fine.
    According to easydamus, in D&D I'd be:

    A Lawful Good Human Cleric 3. (Str 12 Dex 13 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 16 Cha 14)

    Take the test yourself to see your results: http://easydamus.com/character.html

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    Nov 2013

    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Battle Sorcerer replaced with Shapeshifter. Themed like the D&D Next playtest Sorcerer, Dragon Disciple, or Dragoon of older editions.

    The magic within you surges and seethes as your physical shape completely transforms to a new form. You are a fearsome warrior who possess not only the repertoire of an accomplished sorcerer but also the ability to unleash the furious power of your origin upon your foes.
    It's a mix of Alter Self (Natural Weapons), Monk, and Naturalist of the Claw with half spellcasting. The damage is right where I want it. See DPR of Homebrew Classes.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Changes
    • Added Eschew Materials back to Sorcerer now that Occultist is split - it is flavorful for them to not provide material components due to their innate casting.
    • Added Power Surge to the Sorcerer - a 1/short rest ability to increase damage of a spell, but preventing spellcasting for 1 turn.
    • Sorcerer HD increased to d8. Sorcerers are hardier than Wizards due to the magic that resides within them.
    • Added Darkvision 30 feet to the Sorcerer's Origin Form.
    • Arcane/Kinetic Deflection's Constitution saving throw bonus only works to maintain concentration.
    • Minstrel has another Expertise feature at 18th level.
    • Psionicists wording to avoid spell components cleaned up to indicate that components that cost must still be spent.


    Eschew Materials is comparable to the Wizard's larger list of spells that he knows
    d8 + Resilient husk + Power Surge should be comparable to d6 + Arcane Deflection (& mage armor).

    I envision Resilient husk being the form the Shapeshifter walks around with and then they fully transform when they are near battle. Resilient Husk and Origin form overlap a bit, but the added darkvision to Origin form should make up for that.

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    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    Just saw the changes I made and I am really, really happy with this. Mainly because, while this is a selfish want, I always, always, ALWAYS have wanted the ability to play a charismatic cleric that isn't mechanically gimped in 5e, and you have delievered a way to do that. To me, it just makes sense to have clerics that can cast off charisma...the "charsimatic" preacher is a very common trope, and it just makes sense themeatically and mechanically that some priests would draw their magic from their passion and force of conviction rather than a deeper connection to their deity. In my eyes, a church would likely have both wisdom-based and charisa-based clerics. The wisdom based ones would be things like members of cloistered monastic orders that spend their time away from society contemplating the deeper mysteries of their deity, or inquisitors/church investigators ,who would need to have keen senses for and a knack for seeing through lies. Meanwhile, the charismas-based ones would be the evangelizers or priests who represent the faith's interests in the courts/political spheres, filling a very common trope that, in vanilla 5e, is a mechanically penalized character concept. (clerics in 5e really have 0 use for Cha, unlike past editions where they actually wanted a bit of charisma)

    However, the fact you provided a great way to make Charisma-clerics a thing makes me absolutly excited, and I thank you for doing this! That being said, I did notice one "glitch" with the acolyte, paticularly in the War oath It's extra attack feature is based soly on wisdom, rather than wisdom or charisma. I'm not sure if this is intentional or by accident, but just thought I'd point it out since all the other oaths can work off either stat, so the fact this one oath forces you into a stat choice. If your intent was for it to stat-lock you, thats fine, but to me if your allowing total freedom with what stat of wisdom or charisma you cast off of, you should also allow total freedom of oath choice, and not lock any one oath (or archetype, as I REALLY, REALLY love the fact Charisma clerics are a thing, now) into a specific stat.

    Its your rules though, so in the end if your intent was to stat lock the Oath of War I can understand. Just thought I'd let you know in case it was just a mistake you missed.
    According to easydamus, in D&D I'd be:

    A Lawful Good Human Cleric 3. (Str 12 Dex 13 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 16 Cha 14)

    Take the test yourself to see your results: http://easydamus.com/character.html

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    Nov 2013

    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    It is a conversion mistake. It is incorrect for: Loyal Defender, Warding Flare, Wrath of the Storm, Vow of Enmity, War Priest.

    The same is true for some talents that give spellcasting ability for an Acolyte.

    It'll be fixed on the next release. Thanks for pointing it out!

    EDIT: They should be fixed now.

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    Oct 2017

    Default Re: Structural Class Changes (Mana, Talents, Clear gish structure)

    One of your feats: Reach

    References Eidolon but never requires Eidolon while other things have Eidolon as a prerequisite.

    Resistance and Roar also do this.

    So annoying that homebrewery pdfs don't let you do searches for text. But it looks nice.
    Check out a class I'm working on: Sigil

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