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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: LotR Coming to Amazon TV

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Muse View Post
    There's almost no way Orlando Bloom will be involved. His salary would be way too high.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Get in Hype Train guys! Let's go!

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Nah..... I`ll wait with anything even remotely Hypelike until they clearly say what time period and story (if preexisting) they are doing, an who except NotSam they`?ll have acting.


    Personally I would really love the Fall of Numenor, or as a short season (maybe they`ll do a different tale each) the Fall of the Noldor. Sigh....unlikely as it may be.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: LotR Coming to Amazon TV

    If anyone asked me I'd have to say, "they are going to make a more faithful adaptations of the books than the Jackson movies, yes that includes Tom Bombadil".

    Because honestly, why woudl they try and do anything else?

    And no, the existing moveis are in no way an issue here.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: LotR Coming to Amazon TV

    Quote Originally Posted by NRSASD View Post
    Personally I want to see the fall of Arnor, Gondor's sister kingdom(s). Since the war takes place over a couple of centuries, each season is a different set of Arnorian rulers. Any elf, dwarf, or orc characters can stick around through the seasons since they don't age. There can be major victories and defeats through the arcs, as Arnor fends off the forces of darkness but steadily loses ground. It can even tie into the LOTR movies as the epilogue, cause Aragorn is the last heir of their royal line.

    Besides, this is where the Witchking of Angmar gets his name. The biggest and baddest of the Nazgul vs an entire kingdom of men. That would be awesome to see
    I second this.

    If you include the tension between the 3 different kingdoms of the Arnor (part of the reason the witch-king won was due to infighting), and the unwillingness of Rohan and Gondor to get involved, you have a good geo-political magic action thriller.
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: LotR Coming to Amazon TV

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Because canonically there's not really much that happens which would make for a good sequel? Aragorn rules as a just and wise king for 120 years or thereabouts and then dies, doesn't really make for an epic tale.
    Well this sounds like apotential good story to me.
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    BarbarianGuy

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    The thing I'd like to see is an actual remake of LoTR in long-form format. New actors, of course. Stick much closer to the books on all counts, leave nothing out, same timing. Tom Bombadil, songs and poems, Scouring, etc. Maybe throw in events from Appendices and Unfinished Tales that are occurring simultaneously during the years after the party, and the wars of Rohan with Saruman. You could get three 10 episode seasons from that.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: LotR Coming to Amazon TV

    Id rather they make a story about one of the following

    - the Corruption and Fall of Numenor
    - the Ringmaker (Celebrimbor's story, his motivation, hubris and fall)
    - the Scourge of Arnor

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    Default Re: LotR Coming to Amazon TV

    Huh... So, apparently Christopher Tolkien stepped down from the Estate board at the end of August. That kind of explains some of the timing, I think.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingTarget View Post
    Huh... So, apparently Christopher Tolkien stepped down from the Estate board at the end of August. That kind of explains some of the timing, I think.
    Probably. Since he didn't like the movies, likely he didn't like the idea of a serialization either. Sounds like he got outvoted or such and resigned in protest. Or maybe it's just that he's 92 and decided he'd had enough :)

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: LotR Coming to Amazon TV

    What I first read led me to think it was prequel stories in addition to the LotR, from it being called "Lord of the Rings" and English's ambiguity.

    But speaking of the Silmarillion, one of the just-for-fun projects Signum University is doing is the SilmFilm project. They're planning out a hypothetical TV series for the Silmarillion. They're not just working through the text, but including other known events in the Third Age as a framing device. For example, IIRC, using Aragorn's meeting of Arwen to introduce Beren and Luthien. They're also fleshing out events in more detail like what named characters were doing at the Kinslaying. I catch SilmFilm on YouTube, but I'm pretty sure SignumU has an RSS feed and is on iTunes too.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    PaladinGuy

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    Prequel opens up so many options Young Ranger of the North Aragorn would be nifty.

    Just... whatever you do Amazon, do it well. Please don't **** this up.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChapelCanaan View Post
    Prequel opens up so many options Young Ranger of the North Aragorn would be nifty.

    Just... whatever you do Amazon, do it well. Please don't **** this up.
    Well, I'm sure their going to try pretty hard... After all they just paid $200-250 million for licensing rights. Estimates are it will cost another $100-150 million per season. So say they are planning on at least 3 seasons, that $500-700 million dollar investment.

    Of course, everyone has an opinion let just hope what Bezo's thinks is good we agree with :)

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    Default Re: LotR Coming to Amazon TV

    Quote Originally Posted by ChapelCanaan View Post
    Prequel opens up so many options Young Ranger of the North Aragorn would be nifty.

    Just... whatever you do Amazon, do it well. Please don't **** this up.
    That depends on your goal for doing it well. How often do we see producers who think they're smarter than the book's author?

    If Amazon wants Game of Thrones money, they may follow the GOT/Black Sails/ Spartacus playbook: some intrigue, lots of combat, and plenty of elven maids dancing naked in the moonlight until they're ravaged by marauding orcs.
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    BlackDragon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    That depends on your goal for doing it well. How often do we see producers who think they're smarter than the book's author?

    If Amazon wants Game of Thrones money, they may follow the GOT/Black Sails/ Spartacus playbook: some intrigue, lots of combat, and plenty of elven maids dancing naked in the moonlight until they're ravaged by marauding orcs.
    This would be quite horrible!
    I would watch the **** out of this show

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: LotR Coming to Amazon TV

    It looks like New Line is going to be involved, which is nice for legal reasons.

    Remember, it isn't just Peter Jackson's changes to the script that are copyrighted, but the entire aesthetic of the films; the make-up, the landscapes, the music, and style of props, everything, and that would be a pain to try and film around

    For an example, look at how many hoops Disney has to jump through when they make a Wizard of Oz movie. While the Wizard of Oz book is public domain the famous MGM movie is not, and Disney has to be really careful to avoid plagiarism, they even have to make sure the witch's skin is a significantly different color than in the original (I hear the Universal is similarly hard-ass when it comes to the makeup and costumes of people trying to make new movie adaptations of Dracula or Frankenstein).


    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    The thing I'd like to see is an actual remake of LoTR in long-form format. New actors, of course. Stick much closer to the books on all counts, leave nothing out, same timing. Tom Bombadil, songs and poems, Scouring, etc. Maybe throw in events from Appendices and Unfinished Tales that are occurring simultaneously during the years after the party, and the wars of Rohan with Saruman. You could get three 10 episode seasons from that.
    Why?

    The movies were already extremely good, and the odds that Amazon could pull of something better, especially with a much smaller budget and time scale, is rather small.

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Because canonically there's not really much that happens which would make for a good sequel? Aragorn rules as a just and wise king for 120 years or thereabouts and then dies, doesn't really make for an epic tale.
    First off, if you are worried about violating canon it is much easier with a sequel than a prequel, and trying to do anything like a proper epic prequel is going to twist the canon in knots, especially if it involves one or more of the major characters from the original.

    Second, a lot happens in the fourth age. The minions of Sauron don't just drop over dead and it took decades if not centuries to drive his forces out of the dark places of the world. Imagine the adventures involved in retaking Gundabad, or Mt. Gram, or Dol Guldur, or Moria, or Mordor itself from the orcs. Imagine all of the monsters and nameless horrors that still dwell in the edge of the wild or the deep places of the world, Smaug wasn't the only dragon still living in the north, and the Balrog or Moria certainly isn't the only forgotten horror leftover from the first age.

    Then think about the politics; you have all these formerly isolationist societies that were pressed into an alliance by the threat of a common enemy. Now that enemy is gone. How will relations between the free peoples continue? Will Rohan and Gondor truly remain allies forever? Will the dwarves and elves continue to distrust eachother as they always have or can Gimle and Legolas bring them together? Will the people of the Shire finally start getting involved in the affairs of the wider world now that they have heroes of their own to look up to? What of the Ents now that they have left their forests and revealed themselves to the world?

    Furthermore, what of former enemies? We know the people of Khand, and Rhun, and Harad, and Umbar, and Dunland will eventually becomes allies of Gondor, but I am sure it isn't an easy transition. I can easily imagine a political drama akin to Game of Thrones involving diplomacy with any of these countries.

    And of course there are always corruption within. The plot of the proposed sequel to Lord of the Rings was going to involve cultists within Gondor worshipping Sauron, and this is only the beginning. Imagine what would happen if people started exploring the ruins of Mordor and salvaging the ruins of the enemy, learning black magic and perhaps even the art of ring making for themselves.


    We only know a very few specific details about what happens during the fourth age, and there is plenty of room to fill in the blanks with all sorts of compelling stories if you have a bit of imagination.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    Because even the ones that were less known at the times are now the stars of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, you can't afford those people..
    None of the Lord of the Rings actors are exactly A list celebrities. Orlando Bloom was big for a while, but I can't recall the last thing he was in aside from a minor cameo in the last pirate's movie, and I have seen Sean Astin and Liv Tyler in a lot more TV roles than film ones recently. I don't really think an occasional appearance by one of the original actors is asking too much.

    Although I agree that Samwise is a good choice for narrator as he canonically does become the official chronicler after Frodo's departure.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Vinyadan's Avatar

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    Default Re: LotR Coming to Amazon TV

    Gandalf is pretty famous. Chr. Lee would be extremely costly, what with time travel and/or ouja boards. Although they could get Nich. Cage for him.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    NinjaGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    None of the Lord of the Rings actors are exactly A list celebrities. Orlando Bloom was big for a while, but I can't recall the last thing he was in aside from a minor cameo in the last pirate's movie, and I have seen Sean Astin and Liv Tyler in a lot more TV roles than film ones recently. I don't really think an occasional appearance by one of the original actors is asking too much.

    Although I agree that Samwise is a good choice for narrator as he canonically does become the official chronicler after Frodo's departure.
    While I do agree the Fellowship weren't A listers, the more subtle roles around them did contain big ticket names, such as Karl Urban, Hugo Weaving, and Cate Blanchett, or people who are currently locked into TV serials. Liv Tyler, however, should be available as "The Leftovers" wasn't renewed for a fourth season, and Sean Astin too - he likely won't be coming back for Stranger Things 3, and his ongoing gig is voicing an animated series.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    Why?

    The movies were already extremely good, and the odds that Amazon could pull of something better, especially with a much smaller budget and time scale, is rather small.
    I don't think the movies were extremely good.
    The more I watched them and thought about them, the less I liked them. I loved the sets and cinematography and score and most of the choices for actors. I really don't like what they chose to do with some very important characters and plot events, which is more important than the visual spectacle to me. So I'd rather see a lower budget thing with some fewer special effects but with the right personality and relationship for the Hobbits, Gimli, Legolas, Faramir, etc., than leave the Jackson movies as the definitive version. Don't even mention the Hobbit movies. A TV series would let them take it slower- actually get some of the lore and poetry in there, develop relationships, aka be a better expression of Tolkien's work.

    While true that a smaller budget might be a problem, that will be true regardless of what they're doing- whatever time period or material covered it still needs to be a fantasy set in Middle Earth.
    Last edited by Thrudd; 2017-11-16 at 04:24 PM.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: LotR Coming to Amazon TV

    I think that's slightly different, though. The movies are good, I will freely admit that. However, they're not really LOTR--Peter Jackson and his team really didn't seem to *get* the whole idea that the Ring was a subtle, insidious evil that could take decades to do its work. They treated it like it was some sort of horrendous infection that would get you as soon as you touched it, which is why we have nonsense like Gandalf picking up the Ring with tongs and then dropping it into Frodo's hand, assuring him it's "quite cool"--something he doesn't know for sure since this is his final test that this is Sauron's ring! At least in the book he picked it up in his fingers and would thus know it's not hot.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    NecromancerGuy

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    So, since one of the few things we do know is that it is a prequel to Fellowship and it won't be redoing the events of the Fellowship, besides the "youth" of Aragorn, what might the topics be?

    And since it is only rumor about Sean Astin might be part of the cast, let's not assume Samwise with be in the show at all (even as narrator).

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordEntrails View Post
    So, since one of the few things we do know is that it is a prequel to Fellowship and it won't be redoing the events of the Fellowship, besides the "youth" of Aragorn, what might the topics be?
    Well, I would assume they'll stick with the Third Age - due to not having the rights to the Silmarillion and simply wanting to use the familiar geography of Middle Earth, there's a couple of possibilities. So I'll work backwards through the timeline.

    1. 2957-2980: Young Aragorn. This is by far the most obvious.
    2. ~2500: Formation of the Gondor-Rohan Alliance and War with the Easterlings. This is a big war, but it's just a bunch of humans fighting each other, not a lot to recommend it.
    3. ~1970-2050: The tale of Earnur, Last King of Gondor. This stretches from the fall of Arthedain (last kingdom of Arnur) through the destruction of Angmar and eventually Earnur's downfall due to riding into Mordor to challenge the Witch-King. There's a lot of potential here with a solid tragic core to build upon.
    4. 1432-1447: Kin-Strife of Gondor. This is the civil-war that encompasses Castamir's usurpation of the throne and the founding of the Corsairs of Umbar. This is, by far, the most GoT-esque scenario. It also happens is a relatively tightly contained period of time by LotR standards which makes it a really good candidate.
    5. 861: Earendur of Arnur dies and this launches a massive civil war. Not much detail to this and not a lot to explore.

    From my perspective, both 3 or 4 are good options. 3 uses fantasy elements more openly, with the Witch-King and some big name elves like Glorfindel having a part to play, while 4 is a more political scenario. In all honesty though, young Aragorn is still far and away the best choice.
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    Talakeal's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    I don't think the movies were extremely good.
    The more I watched them and thought about them, the less I liked them. I loved the sets and cinematography and score and most of the choices for actors. I really don't like what they chose to do with some very important characters and plot events, which is more important than the visual spectacle to me. So I'd rather see a lower budget thing with some fewer special effects but with the right personality and relationship for the Hobbits, Gimli, Legolas, Faramir, etc., than leave the Jackson movies as the definitive version. Don't even mention the Hobbit movies. A TV series would let them take it slower- actually get some of the lore and poetry in there, develop relationships, aka be a better expression of Tolkien's work.

    While true that a smaller budget might be a problem, that will be true regardless of what they're doing- whatever time period or material covered it still needs to be a fantasy set in Middle Earth.
    Obviously you are entitled to your own opinion, but by any objective measure (gross, review scores, awards, etc.) the original trilogy are some of the best movies of all time. The odds of amazon doing it better are, imo, pretty small regardless of whether you are looking at broad market appeal or whether we are looking subjectively at any one individuals personal tastes.

    Which is not to say that there won't be SOMEONE out there who prefers the new versions, it is just unlikely to be you or I or any specific individual.
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    Obviously you are entitled to your own opinion, but by any objective measure (gross, review scores, awards, etc.) the original trilogy are some of the best movies of all time. The odds of amazon doing it better are, imo, pretty small regardless of whether you are looking at broad market appeal or whether we are looking subjectively at any one individuals personal tastes.

    Which is not to say that there won't be SOMEONE out there who prefers the new versions, it is just unlikely to be you or I or any specific individual.
    Jackson and/or Newline made quite a few bad decisions in those adaptations from a thematic standpoint, in respect to representing Tolkien's work - this is what made them disappointing Lord of the Rings movies. Production values, financial and critical success have nothing to do with that. They can be enjoyed purely as well made fantasy films regardless of the source material - this is why they were successful in the mainstream.

    Odds are, if Amazon put someone in charge who actually likes and understands Tolkien for what it is and gave sufficient creative control, they would make a better LotR adaptation than Jackson/Newline did, especially given the fact that it would be long-form rather than forced into theater conventions. Whether it would be flashy enough to keep the attention of the general TV watching public and the current generation of youngsters is less likely, maybe. But anyone who enjoys Tolkien like I do would probably enjoy that better than the films.

    I know they're not likely to ever do that, that's just what I'd like to see. I truly believe LotR could be better adapted and I'd want to see it. The movies we have now are good, but they could have been far, far better, even within the logistic constraints of studio film-making. I just don't think Jackson and his producers were really Tolkien fans at all, despite the claims of the DVD commentaries and interviews, and it shows in the resulting product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingTarget View Post
    Huh... So, apparently Christopher Tolkien stepped down from the Estate board at the end of August. That kind of explains some of the timing, I think.
    I was surprised because mostly I thought Christopher was still at the helm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    Jackson and/or Newline made quite a few bad decisions in those adaptations from a thematic standpoint, in respect to representing Tolkien's work - this is what made them disappointing Lord of the Rings movies.
    It's almost like having an OotS movie where Roy is stupid, Elan is smart, Belkar isn't evil, V has a gender, and Miko is a hero, but the gross events are the same with many smaller changes, deletions, and additions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    They treated it like it was some sort of horrendous infection that would get you as soon as you touched it, which is why we have nonsense like Gandalf picking up the Ring with tongs and then dropping it into Frodo's hand, assuring him it's "quite cool"
    I was under the impression that Gandalf used tongs because he didn't want to stick his hand in the fireplace? The ring may be cold, but the fire sure isn't.

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    I don't remember how it exactly worked in the book. Maybe he picked it up with the thongs, immediately dropped it in his other hand, reacted to Frodo's worried reaction by stating that it was cold, and then gave it to him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    I don't remember how it exactly worked in the book. Maybe he picked it up with the thongs, immediately dropped it in his other hand, reacted to Frodo's worried reaction by stating that it was cold, and then gave it to him?
    He uses the tongs to pull the Ring from the fire onto the hearth, then picks it up from there and gives it to Frodo, assuring him it's quite cool--with some justification because he actually picked the thing up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    He uses the tongs to pull the Ring from the fire onto the hearth, then picks it up from there and gives it to Frodo, assuring him it's quite cool--with some justification because he actually picked the thing up.
    Ah, that clears things up. Thanks
    Last edited by NRSASD; 2017-11-17 at 09:43 AM.

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