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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Imp

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Did the book get leaked early and I missed the link?
    Some stores got it on the 10th.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    Some stores got it on the 10th.
    Oh.

    [Curse words]
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    "Just because the DM lets you break the game, doesn't mean the game is broken."
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    "My Patron is Steven Spielberg"
    Quote Originally Posted by CNagy View Post
    For some reason this feels really fitting; I got a mental image of a bunch of psions setting up a LAN party.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Oh.

    [Curse words]
    Though of course you can find it leaked online.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    Though of course you can find it leaked online.
    That I expected but I probably can't find it easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    "Just because the DM lets you break the game, doesn't mean the game is broken."
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    "My Patron is Steven Spielberg"
    Quote Originally Posted by CNagy View Post
    For some reason this feels really fitting; I got a mental image of a bunch of psions setting up a LAN party.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    That I expected but I probably can't find it easy.
    Oh you can.

    Sorry I can't help you more, but it's probably against the rules.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    Oh you can.

    Sorry I can't help you more, but it's probably against the rules.
    That's fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    "Just because the DM lets you break the game, doesn't mean the game is broken."
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    "My Patron is Steven Spielberg"
    Quote Originally Posted by CNagy View Post
    For some reason this feels really fitting; I got a mental image of a bunch of psions setting up a LAN party.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Malisteen View Post
    Not sure that I agree hexblades /must/ go blade pact. Non-melee, shadow-themed warlock is a strong thematic choice, and the hexblade's curse works just as well, if not better, with eldritch blast as it does w melee attacks, and with less invocation overhead.

    Plus, ranged fighting tends to work better with the warlock's easiest form of advantage - darkness/devil's sight - to crit fish off the expanded range on a cursed target

    As you mention, even with all the buffs to blade pact, a melee hexblade is still weaker than a normal blastibg fiendlock. Well, that applies to a blasting hexlock as well.

    if you're going for blade pact, you absolutely need to go hexblade, but the reverse is not at all true. The writers stapled a fix to blade pact to tge patron, but underneath that fix hexblade is still a fully functional curse themed patron that works just fine with other pact boons.
    Yes this is true, I will edit my guide to reflect this. As you rightly point out the Hexblade (ironically) makes a good blasterlock.
    Last edited by ProseBeforeHos; 2017-11-19 at 10:58 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolzyking View Post
    I think you are underselling the kensei, its not as limiting as it was in the ua.

    Kensei weapons are treated monk weapons, this means weapons like the whip, or darts if chosen scale with martial arts die.

    you only need to make one of your attacks with your unarmed strike to gain benefit of agile parry.

    sharpened blade can work well with magical weapons that don't give +1s such as flame tongue or a lightning javelin. (this is useful in adventures league where such weapons are considered trash items due to harsh optimization)
    Whip is an interesting option, but would not allow you to use flurry or agile parry while using the range.

    Indeed, however I think my assessment still stands. You are being rewarded for not using one of (what should be) your subclasses core strengths.

    An interesting point. But enough to warrant a better rating? I'm skeptical.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Klorox View Post
    Great job.

    Iím on the fence with that arcane archer. Those two shots are great, but after theyíre spent you donít have much.

    Iím going to hold judgement until I see a few in action.

    Is that zealot barbarian on par with the bear totem barbarian? It looks really, really good.

    Thank you for your hard work putting this together!
    Curving shot is surprisingly good. We have an Arcane archer in a Curse of Strahd game, and he's been a DPR machine (he took both elven accuracy and sharpshooter).

    I would say bear totem remains the best overall choice assuming you grab sentinel. Zealot is close behind though.

    No problem! Hope it's useful to you.
    Last edited by ProseBeforeHos; 2017-11-19 at 11:13 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
    My only complaint, which is the same complaint I have about most of the class guides on here, is that it's centered purely on combat. I mean, I understand that when you're looking for optimization that's the information you need, but at the same time it also causes a lot of abilities that are good out of combat to get tossed in the trash, and deters people from trying the class.
    This is a fair complaint. I do try and talk about my reflections on the thematic "coolness" of the class, but in my defense this is an optimization thread, and what classes have what roleplay value is highly subjective.

    From an RP perspective I hate the scout and love the drunken master, but someone else will have the opposite opinion

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    So I got a few questions:

    Do Zealot Barbarians hurt allies with their damage aura? In the UA my friends couldn't find where it said it didn't so it cause the class to be a team killer.

    Can Storm Herald choose it's storm types each level like totem warrior or is it a one storm choice?
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    "Just because the DM lets you break the game, doesn't mean the game is broken."
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    "My Patron is Steven Spielberg"
    Quote Originally Posted by CNagy View Post
    For some reason this feels really fitting; I got a mental image of a bunch of psions setting up a LAN party.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    So I got a few questions:

    Do Zealot Barbarians hurt allies with their damage aura? In the UA my friends couldn't find where it said it didn't so it cause the class to be a team killer.

    Can Storm Herald choose it's storm types each level like totem warrior or is it a one storm choice?
    Zealots donít have an aura anymore, and storm herald is Ďlocked iní to one choice

    Edit: a neat trick for Celestial Warlocks: if you are an Aasimar, use your racial to add radiant damage to all your spells... and then get them boosted because they now deal radiant damage.
    Last edited by Naanomi; 2017-11-19 at 11:26 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    Zealots donít have an aura anymore, and storm herald is Ďlocked iní to one choice

    Edit: a neat trick for Celestial Warlocks: if you are an Aasimar, use your racial to add radiant damage to all your spells... and then get them boosted because they now deal radiant damage.
    1. Good to know.

    2. Aww...
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    "Just because the DM lets you break the game, doesn't mean the game is broken."
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    "My Patron is Steven Spielberg"
    Quote Originally Posted by CNagy View Post
    For some reason this feels really fitting; I got a mental image of a bunch of psions setting up a LAN party.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by mgshamster View Post
    Take, for example, the current thread complaining about weapons in 5e, and how the OP can't play the PC he wants to play because it's not optimized.
    This is a lie (I've never said I "can't play" any PC).

    It is also off-topic.

    And, TBH, a bit unpleasant to see myself criticized for a false reason when casually reading a thread in which I didn't participate.

    If I've said something you disagree with, you can try and talk to me directly. I hope you'll find I'm quite agreeable.

    Other than that I completely agree with the sentiment that fun and optimization are separated, that thy can be discussed separately, and that it is cool to like both.
    Methods & Madness - my D&D 5e /OSR /game design blog.
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    *3e x 4e x 5e - Can you trip an ooze? Are miniatures required?

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    When your character must suck for you to have fun, that's not fun. Nor is it always sustainable. If your idea of a fun character is one who charges naked into battle wielding a sickle and your foes are giants, you don't get to have fun.

    That doesn't mean every option needs to be the best, only that every supported option needs to be viable, meaning able to handle the expected level of challenge.

    But this is off-topic. From what I've seen of the new Xanathar's options, they're all viable.
    Breaking BM: Revised - an updated look at the beast-mounted halfling ranger based on the Revised Ranger: Beast Conclave.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    Bearbarian is still #1 in personal survivability
    Ancestral is #1 in party survivability
    Zealot is #1 in damage dealing
    Arguably, Zealot's free rez makes it #1 in long-term personal survivability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Did the book get leaked early and I missed the link?
    Release date for FLGSes was last week. It's only the 21st for Amazon and other big retailers.

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy_Lee View Post
    From what I've seen of the new Xanathar's options, they're all viable.
    Yeah, that's my general point. There's nothing that truly sucks in 5e, like there was in 3.X. Back then, it was really easy to make a character which was accidentally a detriment to the group. I've done so several times trying to create a fun concept.

    It's rather hard to do that in 5e. Even the things rated red are still useful and can still be viable. It may not be the absolute best, but it by no means truly sucks.

    The difference between the best and the worst abilities in 5e is rather small, and XGE continues that trend. It's a great addition to the game.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Nice guide so far, can't wait to see what you have to say about the spells.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgshamster View Post
    Yeah, that's my general point. There's nothing that truly sucks in 5e, like there was in 3.X. Back then, it was really easy to make a character which was accidentally a detriment to the group. I've done so several times trying to create a fun concept.

    It's rather hard to do that in 5e. Even the things rated red are still useful and can still be viable. It may not be the absolute best, but it by no means truly sucks.

    The difference between the best and the worst abilities in 5e is rather small, and XGE continues that trend. It's a great addition to the game.
    There are still a few things that fall behind the curve. Elements Monk and BM Ranger are the most common examples, as both require exceptional play or careful building to compete with your standard warlock, rogue, or barbarian.

    But my point was that none of the Xanathar's options fall into that category. They're all good, and in many cases are better than anything in the PHB (such as the new sorcerer archetypes).
    Breaking BM: Revised - an updated look at the beast-mounted halfling ranger based on the Revised Ranger: Beast Conclave.

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    To the OP, I would submit that for a hexblade bladelock, elven accuracy is Very potent

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Maybe this was discussed elsewhere and I missed it, but regarding power surge. I know they didn't plural creature in the description but it affects the target of the spell. It doesn't say 1 target of the spell. Wouldn't a fireballs target be everything in the radius? Still not great but better than a single creature.

    Unless I am misinterpreting the wording(highly possible)

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    This is a very solid guide. Great job!

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProseBeforeHos View Post
    Aura of Conquest: Thematically cool, practically less so. Reducing speed to 0 doesn't actually do much (enemies can't move towards you while feared anyway) and while aoe damage is nice, it's limited by the short range of the aura (when it expands this gets better). This is no aura of warding...
    I've been playing the Oath of Conquest Paladin, and from what I've used it for in-game, I think you're overlooking what the Aura of Conquest was made to do: support the party by making you unbelievably sticky.

    While the Frightened condition prevents enemies from approaching you, you're also forgetting one important thing: many of the spells or effects that induce the frightened condition make the target want to (or sometimes force them to) run away from you. This means you have to chase them down, and it gives them extra chances to save. The Aura keeps feared targets from fleeing, and prevents them from moving at all, not only meaning your allies are (probably) safe from the enemies you frightened (Don't worry about those orcs my wizard friend, they won't be hurting you anytime soon!), but this also opens up a whole can of combos you can drop on them with your party (shoving them prone so they can't get up due to no movement, dropping a wall of fire on them, etc).

    Not to mention, forcing enemies to attack with disadvantage or waste their action fleeing/dodging (depending on the source which inflicted the fear) makes the aura even better for tanking and hindering your enemies. And the best part is, thanks to being a Paladin of Conquest, you can frighten you enemies in ways that either require no concentration (such as from their Channel Divinity, or the Dragon Roar Feat), make them waste their action to make a check with disadvantage to escape the fear effect (Wrathful Smite is amazing on this paladin), or just flat-out denying them the chance to make any further saving throws to escape the effect (Seriously, the Fear Spell is easily one of the best parts of their spell list due to how well it combos with the aura, as the aura will prevent them from fleeing or movement, keeping them from getting far enough away to make another saving throw).

    Heck, the Fear spell itself is amazing with the Aura of Conquest, as in addition to the reasons above, you can just kick all the stuff they drop out of their reach, leaving them weaponless or staff-less or whatever. Of course, this only applies to the enemy if they were holding something in the first place, but my point stands: The Power to negate enemy movement on those frightened in the aura and keep them close to you is amazing for a martial class. The Psychic Damage dealt isn't the draw of the Aura, it's just the cherry on top. And when the Aura expands to 30 feet the Fear spell might as well be pushing the 'We Win' Button for the party. I believe that, thanks to the Oath of Conquest's powers and how well they mesh with each other, this Paladin Oath is easily the best for support and/or battlefield control, if not one of the best Oaths period for dealing with minions and hordes. Honestly, a lot of monsters are surprisingly not immune to fear unless they're undead or automatons. Even Big Bad Monsters like BALORS can be frightened.

    [This Oath also gets major props for being the only (and I mean only) class in the entire game that can actually make use of the Mace of Terror. My Conquest Paladin has one, and it's an AMAZING weapon for the class. As well as thematically fitting.]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy_Lee View Post
    When your character must suck for you to have fun, that's not fun. Nor is it always sustainable. If your idea of a fun character is one who charges naked into battle wielding a sickle and your foes are giants, you don't get to have fun.
    If a character concept sucks or is not fun for me, is not for you to decide. It is an opinion. Just how I cannot tell you what idea you must like, you cannot tell me what I idea I must like.

    I'm in a campaign right now, where another Fighter is playing an 8th level Eldritch Knight. He wanted to play a character who uses his shield and actually does damage with it. Because the GM refused to house rule something, to get this he invested in the Tavern Brawler (shield counts as an improvised weapon) and Dual Wielder (improvised weapons aren't finesse) feats. Sub-optimal has hell and he's the lowest damage dealer in the party.

    You know what? He's having fun. He's having a total blast. In his mind eye, his character wades through battle, finishing off opponents with epic shield bashes that sends their freshly dead corpses flying. BEFORE and AFTER every gaming session, he won't stop talking about the awesomeness of his sword and board character. According to optimization he's doing it completely wrong (he doesn't even have Shield Mastery because he decided on War Caster first).

    But you know what, I agree with him. His character is freaking awesome. Every time he beams at his latest shield kill, it gets contagious around the table. We cheer and make shield puns about it. I'm GLAD he made that character. It's one of the many reasons I'm going to be sad when this campaign ends (GM said it's going to finish at about level 9 or 10).

    I don't know... maybe someone could make a naked sickle wielding warrior fun and sustainable. I didn't think anyone could make a 1d4 bludgeoning bonus attack shield warrior fun. I was proven wrong.
    Last edited by Nargrakhan; 2017-11-21 at 07:32 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nargrakhan View Post
    If a character concept sucks or is not fun for me, is not for you to decide. It is an opinion. Just how I cannot tell you what idea you must like, you cannot tell me what I idea I must like.

    I'm in a campaign right now, where another Fighter is playing an 8th level Eldritch Knight. He wanted to play a character who uses his shield and actually does damage with it. Because the GM refused to house rule something, to get this he invested in the Tavern Brawler (shield counts as an improvised weapon) and Dual Wielder (improvised weapons aren't finesse) feats. Sub-optimal has hell and he's the lowest damage dealer in the party.

    You know what? He's having fun. He's having a total blast. In his mind eye, his character wades through battle, finishing off opponents with epic shield bashes that sends their freshly dead corpses flying. BEFORE and AFTER every gaming session, he won't stop talking about the awesomeness of his sword and board character. According to optimization he's doing it completely wrong (he doesn't even have Shield Mastery because he decided on War Caster first).

    But you know what, I agree with him. His character is freaking awesome. Every time he beams at his latest shield kill, it gets contagious around the table. We cheer and make shield puns about it. I'm GLAD he made that character. It's one of the many reasons I'm going to be sad when this campaign ends (GM said it's going to finish at about level 9 or 10).

    I don't know... maybe someone could make a naked sickle wielding warrior fun and sustainable. I didn't think anyone could make a 1d4 bludgeoning bonus attack shield warrior fun. I was proven wrong.
    Your shield-bearing friend isn't fighting challenges he can't face. If I had to guess, I'd say he does less damage than normal, but his AC is fine and his party makes up for his shortcomings.

    Imagine a party full of Mr. Shieldbash trying to handle a hard campaign.

    It's not up to me to decide what you think is fun. But I absolutely can tell you if your build mechanically sucks. That doesn't always matter, but it's damned frustrating when it does. It's even more frustrating when you are just playing a standard character, like a non-mounted beast master or a four elements monk or a blasting-focused wild sorcerer, and realize that the character sucks natively.
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  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProseBeforeHos View Post

    Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting: It was bad in EE, it's still bad! Con save, necrotic damage, and only does 1d8 more than a lvl 8 cone of cold. Don't use this!
    I hate to crack down instantly on the first batch of spells, but this is definitely not red- it's purple. Exactly necromancer wizards get benefit from this in its buffed form, being an AOE necromancy damage spell makes it better than cone of cold for that specific subclass. If it hadn't gotten the extra 2d8 from EE it would be red, but the buff makes it niche at worst.
    Last edited by Foxhound438; 2017-11-22 at 02:15 AM.
    Spoiler: bad tactics
    Show


    I look at the lich and smirk a bit, as I bring myself back to my feet

    "What are you smiling about?" it says

    "hehe, it looks like you've made... a grave mistake :D"

    the bard, actively bleeding out on the ground *ba-dum-tss*

    "Ha! Nice try. Telling a bad joke to try to make your opponent drop their guard. Oldest trick in the book. Trust me, I was there."

    *barbarian falling, sword in hands, from the top of the castle wall directly above the lich*


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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    As far as RP versus Optimization goes: Any of you guys watched critical role? Their characters are essentially trash as far as optimization goes, but a ton of people love them for their RP anyway.

    The beast master girl literally never even uses her bear so she's just an archer lol.

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravinsild View Post
    As far as RP versus Optimization goes: Any of you guys watched critical role? Their characters are essentially trash as far as optimization goes, but a ton of people love them for their RP anyway. .
    They're also paid actors who don't follow the rules and are generally let to do whatever on a whim. Not a great example of how characters would hold up in a general game.

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravinsild View Post
    As far as RP versus Optimization goes: Any of you guys watched critical role? Their characters are essentially trash as far as optimization goes, but a ton of people love them for their RP anyway.

    The beast master girl literally never even uses her bear so she's just an archer lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    They're also paid actors who don't follow the rules and are generally let to do whatever on a whim. Not a great example of how characters would hold up in a general game.
    These two posts are the perfect example of the two primary player types:

    1) This is a game
    2) This is a story

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Goblin

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    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    They're also paid actors who don't follow the rules and are generally let to do whatever on a whim. Not a great example of how characters would hold up in a general game.
    I'm pretty sure they do the show on their own free time as a hobby. Although, yeah, they've probably played for more years in 5e than in Pathfinder at this point so you would think their system mastery would be a little better by now. They often do forget some rules though, but as far as I could tell it mostly seemed to be pretty standard 5e with a touch of homebrew here and there.

    It's not like they blatantly constantly do things the rules don't allow from what I remember.

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