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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    IMHO, it doesn't deserve the Sky Blue. It's very powerful with a very specific build. That alone doesn't shoot it into the stratosphere of power.
    Fair enough.

    But, It has potential to be a "death sentense".

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardock here View Post
    Fair enough.

    But, It has potential to be a "death sentense".
    So does Elven Accuracy - if you have the Devil's Sight/Darkness/Hexblade combo. But take it on a vanilla Elven Ranger (TWF), let's say, and it's good: knock 'em prone and you're basically guaranteed to hit. But it doesn't reach the ridiculous heights of the aforementioned build.

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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Skill Empowerment is more limited than you've noted. It must be used on a skill the target has proficiency in and, more disappointingly, it can't target a skill which already benefits from doubled proficiency such as Expertise.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Listing invulnerability as anything but so powerful that it's actually incredible Wizards of the Coast even allowed it is how you spot someone who plays in scrub difficulty campaigns and whose DM spoonfeeds him in encounters. He was probably never pitted against anything stronger than textbook Tiamat ( Actually, high doubt that he even faced Tiamat while dismissing total damage immunity ) and likely plays in the campaigns where the number of creatures in an encounter somehow matches perfectly with his party's given strength ( And probably never on the "Deadly" balance ) rather than Hardcore Realistic scenarios where you may face entire armies to accomplish what you want.

    No, total immunity to all damage for 10 minutes is not overrated. It seems rather useful if you need to defeat some eldritch abomination in the heart of Elemental Chaos in which otherwise the ambient damage alone would rip you to shreds in a turn or when fighting off a Legion of Red Dragon armadas. Add Freedom of Movement, Mind Blank, True Seeing and you're literally an unstoppable Overdeity. Add a Simulacrum into the mix, have it Wish for a Mordekainen's Private Sanctum ( 600 feet cube at the 9th level ) over an area to block all teleportation and planar travel within it ( Or do so beforehand if possible ) and now you can't even be banished. Dispel and Antimagic is pretty much your only weakness ( As it would be if you were to Shapechange as well ) for which you'll likely want to keep a handy supply of Counterspells. Although granted, if you're facing a Mage college then you're already screwed since they have the very same spell themselves, but otherwise it is simply indispensable in almost every situation.
    Last edited by Renduaz; 2017-11-24 at 12:21 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by MeeposFire View Post
    Lol I guess I should have used blue text even though I hate that concept. That part was me being a bit sarcastic about how people are ok with their houserules and rulings but other people's stuff is of course to them out of bounds for being 5e to them.
    My apologies. :)

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesla Dragon View Post
    Skill Empowerment is more limited than you've noted. It must be used on a skill the target has proficiency in and, more disappointingly, it can't target a skill which already benefits from doubled proficiency such as Expertise.
    Well spotted, it seems I misread the spell, will change.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Renduaz View Post
    No, total immunity to all damage for 10 minutes is not overrated.
    I strongly disagree. It does nothing to protect you from save or suck effects, and it eats your concentration massively limiting your in combat effectiveness ,(since almost all of the best spells in the game are concentration). Perhaps I should have ranked it black, but no higher than that.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProseBeforeHos View Post
    I strongly disagree. It does nothing to protect you from save or suck effects, and it eats your concentration massively limiting your in combat effectiveness ,(since almost all of the best spells in the game are concentration). Perhaps I should have ranked it black, but no higher than that.
    You might as well give every spell a red rating for not protecting you from save or suck, because few things in the game do, and therefore that's not really a standard of judgement. The first would be Antimagic Field which also completely removes your own spellcasting and magical gear, and hence almost useless to most casters. The second would be Counterspell which you still have access to at any rate. The third, and most effective way, which actually not many are aware of, does involve the 9th level Shapechange, in which you are ( by RAW ) permitted to use a creature's Legendary Resistances, and once you exhaust the reservoir of one ( Say, a Blue dragon ), then you switch to a Red, and go through the entire roster of Ancient White/Brass/Adult metallic/Chromatic dragons to have unlimited legendary resistances, however even this cheesy little trick will mean nothing if someone wipes out your form in a single hit.

    Spells like Blink, Sanctuary, and so forth among other things which reduce your probability of being targeted in the first place are all still available along with Invulnerability. Mind Blank, True Seeing and Freedom of Movement ( All lasting 1 hour plus, no concentration ) shield your from most conditions. As said, a Private Sanctum might even shield you from unwilling plane shifts and teleports, which otherwise you have no defense against. Except this time you at least won't die when you get transported to the bottom of the Lake of Fire or into the Negative Energy Plane.

    The fact that you consider immunity to all damage to be a bad tradeoff just because you can't have some more dice or controlling effects for combat effectiveness once again indicates that you never have to deal with "Very Hard" difficulty encounters in which you can suffer a TPK-level amount of environmental or direct damage ( Being shot by dozens of archers, being roasted by ten dragons, being targeted by Asmodeus's Ruby Rod in his own plane, etc.. ) before you can even open your mouth to say "combat effectiveness". When you're actually fighting an army or hardcore enemies, there's nothing more ridiculously important than total damage immunity. Save-or-Suck effects will always be there anyway.

    As a side-note just browsing over the guide in general, I can't really make sense as to why the Sea Barbarian's raging storm is somehow blue but Tundra is red based on the explanation given. You say it looks good at first glance but mention the limited range of the aura, whereas Sea is just as limited in range. Sea is way worse in that regard in fact, since the creature still needs to be within your aura ( 10 feet ) and you need to attack and hit it too, whereas with Tundra you literally just need to see and choose it. Sea then gets even worse by expending your reaction to accomplish something that high-level monsters are the most flexible towards ( Prone, they have Prone immunities ) while Tundra expends nothing to perform a function which there isn't any natural immunity against, save for a Freedom of Movement spell. You should flip those the other way around than what they're listed as.
    Last edited by Renduaz; 2017-11-24 at 10:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Renduaz View Post
    The fact that you consider immunity to all damage to be a bad tradeoff just because you can't have some more dice or controlling effects for combat effectiveness once again indicates that you never have to deal with "Very Hard" difficulty encounters in which you can suffer a TPK-level amount of environmental or direct damage
    This a very conceited thing to say. You have no idea what kind of games I either play in or run. I'd suggest the opposite, that your overrating of damage immunity shows a lack of understanding of how many defensive options a lvl 17 mage has that make a 10min damage immunity less attractive.

    Your comments on the storm herald barbarian are more legitimate though. I've had some negative feedback on that so I may go back and rewrite/re-clarify that section.

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by ProseBeforeHos View Post
    This a very conceited thing to say. You have no idea what kind of games I either play in or run. I'd suggest the opposite, that your overrating of damage immunity shows a lack of understanding of how many defensive options a lvl 17 mage has that make a 10min damage immunity less attractive.

    Your comments on the storm herald barbarian are more legitimate though. I've had some negative feedback on that so I may go back and rewrite/re-clarify that section.
    I think I'm sufficiently familiar with a mage's defensive options, particularly at high level. I still can't really see the rational basis for dismissing total damage immunity, unless one is involved in encounters where damage always remains low enough to never compromise a major problem beyond the scope of healing or other defenses.

    You wave it off since it won't help against save-or-suck, but without any relevant connection. Such as, what do I gain by keeping my 9th level slot or concentration that helps much so much against save-or-suck, that it's worth giving up on invincibility for? Since as far as I know, the best protection spells against conditions ( All the ones I even listed ) don't even require my concentration.

    Secondly, I'm still asking you what exactly would you consider a better option to deal with fighting some eldritch primordial abomination in the hear of elemental chaos whose lair effects include doing 100 points of get-rekt damage every turn just by virtue of being in that place, let alone it's own attacks, along with similar scenarios, or what would be better against a hundred high-level Elven archers with longbows, or wading through the pits of Carceri ( which one can't easily escape out o with magical means ) filled with an endless swarm of demons after getting banished there by some evil deity avatar, and so on and so forth?

    How does combat effectiveness come into play in a scenario where you'll be killed on the spot before even reaching the 3rd round?

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    I'm not interested into getting into endless roundabout of hypothetical scenarios. I will keep invulnerability red until I've had first hand experience that's better than I suspect it is. If you wish to create your own guide to Xanathar's spells then please, by all means, be my guest.

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    And this is another reason why I'm not fond of guides like this. Sometimes a consensus can be reached regarding how things should be rated, but just as often it boils down to the OP's opinion and if you can convince him/her to change it based on your opinion.

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    The guide seems amazingly thorough and done so quickly!

    Kudos!
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
    And this is another reason why I'm not fond of guides like this. Sometimes a consensus can be reached regarding how things should be rated, but just as often it boils down to the OP's opinion and if you can convince him/her to change it based on your opinion.
    The name is "Prose's Guide". It's his opinions. He made an effort of explain his points about something and gave that to us. I like read and think about what the ideas he brings to the table. Try to modify his opinion is not the main purpuse of the thread. And this ir my opinion.

    If you don't like free stuff a random dude put on internet, don't read. Is that simple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arvin Natsuko View Post
    The name is "Prose's Guide". It's his opinions. He made an effort of explain his points about something and gave that to us. I like read and think about what the ideas he brings to the table. Try to modify his opinion is not the main purpuse of the thread. And this ir my opinion.

    If you don't like free stuff a random dude put on internet, don't read. Is that simple.
    1. Placing a guide on the forums invites commentary, questions, comments, and discussion. If you don't want that, don't put it on a public forum, put it on a personal blog online.

    2. I didn't say changing his opinion was the purpose of it. I said, in a general sort of way, that because it boils down to one person's opinion, that's why I'm not fond of guides like this. They are presented as solid fact, when often times they are subjective opinion. Especially because guides like this look at how well a spell, ability, feat, class works purely by itself for the character alone in combat, and ignores circumstances like how it works in a group, how it does in situations outside of combat. He's accepted and acknowledged when I pointed out this before that it was a valid point.

    None of this is saying that the OP shouldn't have made this guide, nor is it saying that people should never make guides like this. But it's important to recognize the limits of guides like this for the people who come across this guide and other guides like it on the internet, to ensure that they're not immediately discouraged from trying something out that would work for their game, and not the game how the guide's creator envisioned it when they wrote the guide.

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    The guide seems amazingly thorough and done so quickly!

    Kudos!
    Thankyou

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by ProseBeforeHos View Post
    Well spotted, it seems I misread the spell, will change.
    To be fair the restriction on double prof skills is actually not even needed as there is a rule already in place that says you cannot do more than double the prof bonus so the restriction is more an academic reminder than a special restriction.
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by ProseBeforeHos View Post
    Improved Pact Weapon: Do you have a +1 weapon? If no - this is good. If yes - swap this out. Longbow warlock you say? We have eldritch blast, we don't need to fire bits of wood like a pleb!
    I do want to contend the point about Eldritch Blast versus longbow here a bit. I'm not gonna say Eldritch Blast isn't a better ranged option IF you invest all the invocations into it. However, a hexblade with a pact longbow is gonna do comparable damage to Agonizing Blast until 17th level (EB is firing more rays than Bladelock gets attacks at 11, yes, but at 12 they get Lifedrinker so the difference still isn't huge yet). If you're a (typical melee bladelock) Hexblade with a non-enchanted pact weapon, this is a pretty good alternative to Agonizing Blast for your ranged option, because it also (slightly) improves your primary melee attack, the downside being that you need to spend a standard action to switch between melee and ranged attacks as opposed to just firing off whatever strikes your fancy on a given turn. I'd also argue that if you want to sink a feat into Sharpshooter this definitely becomes a better option than Agonizing Blast (not that most melee bladelock builds will do that until a high level if at all).

    To be clear, I'm in no way claiming this is a BETTER ranged option than Agonizing Blast; just that there are cases where it would be a valid choice and they're comparable enough that you probably shouldn't take both.

    So tl;dr the pact longbow merits consideration as a secondary ranged attack for a Hexblade.

    It's also worth noting that the bit where your pact weapon is your arcane focus makes Improved Pact Weapon a very solid option for sword and board or two-weapon bladelocks. Combine with Warcaster and you can cast freely even though your hands are full.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaegar14 View Post
    I do want to contend the point about Eldritch Blast versus longbow here a bit. I'm not gonna say Eldritch Blast isn't a better ranged option IF you invest all the invocations into it. However, a hexblade with a pact longbow is gonna do comparable damage to Agonizing Blast until 17th level (EB is firing more rays than Bladelock gets attacks at 11, yes, but at 12 they get Lifedrinker so the difference still isn't huge yet). If you're a (typical melee bladelock) Hexblade with a non-enchanted pact weapon, this is a pretty good alternative to Agonizing Blast for your ranged option, because it also (slightly) improves your primary melee attack, the downside being that you need to spend a standard action to switch between melee and ranged attacks as opposed to just firing off whatever strikes your fancy on a given turn. I'd also argue that if you want to sink a feat into Sharpshooter this definitely becomes a better option than Agonizing Blast (not that most melee bladelock builds will do that until a high level if at all).

    To be clear, I'm in now way claiming this is a BETTER ranged option than Agonizing Blast; just that there are cases where it would be a valid choice and they're comparable enough that you probably shouldn't take both.

    So tl;dr the pact longbow merits consideration as a secondary ranged attack for a Hexblade.

    It's also worth noting that the bit where your pact weapon is your arcane focus makes Improved Pact Weapon a very solid option for sword and board or two-weapon bladelocks. Combine with Warcaster and you can cast freely even though your hands are full.
    Not to mention...

    ITS REALLY COOL

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Notable re Steel Wind Strike: it is now the go-to lvl10 Valor Bard Magical Secret pick. Ranger doesn't get it until too late and Wizard doesn't get as much out of melee-range mobility but for a gish at lvl10? It's pretty much perfect.

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaegar14 View Post
    To be clear, I'm in no way claiming this is a BETTER ranged option than Agonizing Blast; just that there are cases where it would be a valid choice and they're comparable enough that you probably shouldn't take both.
    For example, a Hexblade who took Eldritch Smite could use the auto-prone aspect of it to shoot fliers out of the air with their Pact Weapon longbow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polymphus View Post
    Notable re Steel Wind Strike: it is now the go-to lvl10 Valor Bard Magical Secret pick. Ranger doesn't get it until too late and Wizard doesn't get as much out of melee-range mobility but for a gish at lvl10? It's pretty much perfect.
    Actually, it's a good damaging spell option for any bard, not just Valor. Up to 30d10 force damage is no joke, especially If you cast a faerie fire in previous turn and you have a grave cleric in your party.

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Swooooord Bard

    Valor Bard ending its teleport near one of the targets also works great with Battle Magic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    inquisitive rogue being called out as not great in a dungeon crawl game seems a bit off to me. It is specifically the environment where trap detection, passive perception, invisible monsters, etc come into play. While I donít think it makes inquisitive much better than your analysis, I think inquisitive as a dungeon-crawling specialist is one area it shines
    I am sure this has already been talked about in a 140+ post discussion but I agree. I actually quite love Inquisitive so I might be slightly biased though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    inquisitive rogue being called out as not great in a dungeon crawl game seems a bit off to me. It is specifically the environment where trap detection, passive perception, invisible monsters, etc come into play. While I donít think it makes inquisitive much better than your analysis, I think inquisitive as a dungeon-crawling specialist is one area it shines
    This is a fair point. When I said "dungeon crawl" I suppose what I meant to say was "meat grinder, combat-o-rama". In a game where trap detection is a premium they certainly have their own niche.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nargrakhan View Post
    I didn't think anyone could make a 1d4 bludgeoning bonus attack shield warrior fun. I was proven wrong.
    You and your friend are my heroes for the day. Thanks for sharing that with us.
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    These two posts are the perfect example of the two primary player types:
    1) This is a game
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    D&D isn't about the PCs, the rules, the story, or the world. It's about the people. Transcend the rules vs story argument and instead adapt to the people around you. If we all do that, every game will go smoothly regardless of how it's played.
    Yeah. A lot of good DMing is about the people at the table.
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    Basically I'm about to open up my table to a whole bunch of random people and I'm just worried they've seen CR and are expecting the freedom to do a bunch of emotional monologuing while the rest of the table sits there.
    *giggles*
    Quote Originally Posted by ProseBeforeHos View Post
    This is a fair point. When I said "dungeon crawl" I suppose what I meant to say was "meat grinder, combat-o-rama". In a game where trap detection is a premium they certainly have their own niche.
    Like Tomb of Horrors?
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Very useful, thank you!

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Added the Expanded Racial Feats.

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    For the Kensai, wouldn't your martial arts attack on your bonus action count for the unarmed attack on your Attack action for Agile Parry? One could argue that you can only make that unarmed attack as a bonus action due to you taking the Attack action with a monk weapon, and you are only granted that bonus action for taking the Attack action to begin with.

    You only get a bonus action if something gives you a bonus action(PHB p 189), otherwise you don't get one. Since the Attack action is giving you this unarmed bonus attack, I would consider it part of the Attack action, so they get their +2AC.

    I'm going to allow it, just wondering what others think.

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Very useful guide. Thank you!

    I have an Evocation Wizard approaching 7th level, and I'm trying to pick the spells to give her once she gets there.

    Right now the list is:

    7th: Polymorph, Watery Sphere
    8th: Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility

    I'm thinking that, as an Evocation Wizard, Sickening Radiance might be a better choice than Watery Sphere, since I can protect my allies from it while providing some nice area denial. Actually, I'm not sure why Watery Sphere is so highly regarded. What do y'all think?

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