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  1. - Top - End - #211
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by krugaan View Post
    What does undying get, again?
    Not much. It is by far the weakest of the patrons.

    At level one they get a cantrip it makes no sense for them to ever cast, Spare the Dying.

    They get a version of sanctuary that only works if directly targeted by undead.

    At 6, if they makes a death save 1/long rest they gain 1d8+X hp.

    At 10 they do not need to eat, drink or breath anymore but they still need to rest, and they slow their aging to 1/10th. So essentially they get nothing because by level 10 you are not going to care about food and water.

    At 14 they get a once per rest heal of 1d8 + warlock level, and can re-attach severed body parts, which is also kind of pointless considering unless your DM throws it in there as a RP point to screw you, you are not losing a body part anyway and a greater restoration spell fixes that anyway which clerics got 5 levels before.

    If you are in a MAJORLY undead centered campaign and did not mind being the weakest person in the group it could work thematically, otherwise it is just wasted book space or an NPC villain option.

  2. - Top - End - #212
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Dudewithknives View Post
    Not much. It is by far the weakest of the patrons.

    At level one they get a cantrip it makes no sense for them to ever cast, Spare the Dying.

    They get a version of sanctuary that only works if directly targeted by undead.

    At 6, if they makes a death save 1/long rest they gain 1d8+X hp.

    At 10 they do not need to eat, drink or breath anymore but they still need to rest, and they slow their aging to 1/10th. So essentially they get nothing because by level 10 you are not going to care about food and water.

    At 14 they get a once per rest heal of 1d8 + warlock level, and can re-attach severed body parts, which is also kind of pointless considering unless your DM throws it in there as a RP point to screw you, you are not losing a body part anyway and a greater restoration spell fixes that anyway which clerics got 5 levels before.

    If you are in a MAJORLY undead centered campaign and did not mind being the weakest person in the group it could work thematically, otherwise it is just wasted book space or an NPC villain option.
    That sounds a little better than naanomi's description, but still, really really bad.

    It's pretty funny how most of the pact is invalidated by one celestial pact ability you get at level 1.
    Last edited by krugaan; 2017-12-07 at 02:46 PM.
    Argue in good faith.

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  3. - Top - End - #213
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by krugaan View Post
    That sounds a little better than naanomi's description, but still, really really bad.

    It's pretty funny how most of the pact is invalidated by one celestial pact ability you get at level 1.
    If a Warlock could make a great Necromancer and pet class it would be ok, but they don't.

  4. - Top - End - #214
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Dudewithknives View Post
    If a Warlock could make a great Necromancer and pet class it would be ok, but they don't.
    Chain warlocks desperately need to be able to charm / bind / dominate creatures appropriate to their patron. Right now they get ... a pet.
    Argue in good faith.

    And try to remember that these are people.

  5. - Top - End - #215
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    That's the point: Pact Boons aren't supposed to be particularly strong strong. It's a single-level non-scaling feature that shares the 3rd level feature budget with gaining access to 2nd level spells.
    Last edited by rbstr; 2017-12-07 at 03:59 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #216
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    Somehow I'm surprised to see Fiend called out as being better than other options, without Undying called out as being worse
    Haha, you're not wrong. I'd honestly forgotten that patron existed it's so rare to see it Certainly, it is the worst!

  7. - Top - End - #217
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by ProseBeforeHos View Post
    Slayer's Prey: Underwhelming compared to say, planar warrior even with the extra range this has. Long story short - it's still "decent" because it's free, so you can combine it with hunters mark, or use it when you're out of spell slots. If it didn't refresh on a short rest it would be red but thankfully it does.
    As I interpret the text, you can actually use the ability at-will; there is nothing that says "You regain the use of this ability when you finish a rest" or anything similar. Rather, it says "This benefit lasts until you finish a short or long rest. It ends early if you designate a different creature". I.e. "until you finish a short or long rest" is just the duration of the effect.
    Last edited by Platypusbill; 2017-12-13 at 07:39 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #218
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by krugaan View Post
    Chain warlocks desperately need to be able to charm / bind / dominate creatures appropriate to their patron. Right now they get ... a pet.
    Thereís nothing stopping them from doing so, except the DM at hand

    Certainly the find familiar spell can call other creatures, and there is some guidance that stock MM/Volos creatures such as a Gazer could qualify.

    Itís probably something best written into the story; do a special service for your patron, get a special reward, or some such

  9. - Top - End - #219
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ShikomeKidoMi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    I noticed you focused on the defensive part of Unbreakable Majesty, but it's worth pointing out that it has a pretty powerful offensive component. Disadvantage on spell saves is nothing to sneeze at. High Charisma foes that insist on attacking a Glamour bard are opening themselves up for reprisal.

  10. - Top - End - #220
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Something to remember for Hexblade/Blade Pact is that to maximise how good it is, you need several invocations. Thirsting Blade, Lifedrinker, Improved Pact Weapon, Eldritch Smite, all combat abilities that mean you will be taking fewer of the other invocations. I am currently playing a Fiend Warlock, and going Hexblade would probably have meant that I wouldn't be doing the cool stuff I am, such as Disguise Self at will and Silent Image at will.

    So yes, if you want to max out your Hexblade potential you will definitely be losing out in terms of non-combat stuff you can do.

  11. - Top - End - #221
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritchaser View Post
    Thereís nothing stopping them from doing so, except the DM at hand

    Certainly the find familiar spell can call other creatures, and there is some guidance that stock MM/Volos creatures such as a Gazer could qualify.

    Itís probably something best written into the story; do a special service for your patron, get a special reward, or some such
    I didn't mean permanently, like a pet ... that would be strong as hell.

    But instead of free hold monster, they should also get to charm / dominate them if they like, instead.
    Argue in good faith.

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  12. - Top - End - #222
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Avonar View Post
    Something to remember for Hexblade/Blade Pact is that to maximise how good it is, you need several invocations. Thirsting Blade, Lifedrinker, Improved Pact Weapon, Eldritch Smite.
    Eh. Unless you're going for a ranged weapon build, Improved Pact Weapon can be swapped out as soon as you get an actual magic weapon, assuming you haven't picked one up by the time you would even be taking it. And eldritch smite, while not at all bad, is hardly compulsory. Bladelocks have good enough spells, and few enough slots to work with, that a smiting mechanic is hardly obligatory in a single classed build. And even in multiclassed builds, the fact that eldritch smite only works with warlock slots still keeps it from being a 'must have'.

    I'd personally consider 'relentless hex' a higher priority than eldritch smite, but maybe that's just me.


    So, in general, i think bladelocks really only have a couple obligatory invocation slots at a time, since you should hopefully have found at least a +1 weapon by the time you're level 12. that's not too bad.

    Really, the only problems with hexblade are that hex warrior - which is really nothing other than a bladelock fix - should have been part of pact blade itself, not part of another patron, and that hexblade's curse should scale with warlock level, not character level. Beyond that, it's fine, and doesn't need to be tuned down.

    Some other aspects of warlock could afford to be tuned up, though.
    The pursuit of knowledge requires a mind unfettered by the petty constraints of ethics, faith, or ... mortality.

  13. - Top - End - #223
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Platypusbill View Post
    As I interpret the text, you can actually use the ability at-will; there is nothing that says "You regain the use of this ability when you finish a rest" or anything similar. Rather, it says "This benefit lasts until you finish a short or long rest. It ends early if you designate a different creature". I.e. "until you finish a short or long rest" is just the duration of the effect.
    Good catch, you're right I misread it. I'm going to do a big update to this guide soontm and I will up the rating accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avonar View Post
    Something to remember for Hexblade/Blade Pact is that to maximise how good it is, you need several invocations. Thirsting Blade, Lifedrinker, Improved Pact Weapon, Eldritch Smite.
    As Malisteen pointed out that's not really true. The "incantation tax" is fairly light only thirsting blade and lifedrinker are really required and so few games go to level 12 anyway.

    Improved pact weapon is purely optional (and even if you take it you will swap it out eventually), you can build a perfectly good bladelock without ever taking smite (though I think eventually it becomes worth it).

    The bigger issue is... is any of this worth not just building a blasterlock? They do comparable damage but at range, and don't have to worry about having a weapon in their hand impeding their casting.

  14. - Top - End - #224
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything

    Quote Originally Posted by ProseBeforeHos View Post
    Good catch, you're right I misread it. I'm going to do a big update to this guide soontm and I will up the rating accordingly.



    As Malisteen pointed out that's not really true. The "incantation tax" is fairly light only thirsting blade and lifedrinker are really required and so few games go to level 12 anyway.

    Improved pact weapon is purely optional (and even if you take it you will swap it out eventually), you can build a perfectly good bladelock without ever taking smite (though I think eventually it becomes worth it).

    The bigger issue is... is any of this worth not just building a blasterlock? They do comparable damage but at range, and don't have to worry about having a weapon in their hand impeding their casting.
    Do you want to hit things with a weapon often while still being a warlock? Well if so EB is not going to work as your primary attack. If you are just a numbers person you can get better numbers using blade but you have to work for it and invest and it will be more dangerous. It is all about style and what you want to do an EB only using warlock will not scratch various kinds of itches and if you have that itch well you need to find something that scratches that.
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