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  1. - Top - End - #1231
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    I will admit I was disappointed by the lack of being able to fuse SSJB Goku with SSJ4 Goku in Fusions.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    I will admit I was disappointed by the lack of being able to fuse SSJB Goku with SSJ4 Goku in Fusions.
    That's not an option? Why even bother making the game, if they weren't gonna let you make a Super Saiyan 4 Blue fusion? It's like these people don't even want our money.

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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Thinking back to GT, I can say I was never a fan of SSJ4 design... But you know... At least it was more creative than "Goku with a new hair color". I really wish Toriyama were a little more creative with his transformation design...
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Thinking back to GT, I can say I was never a fan of SSJ4 design... But you know... At least it was more creative than "Goku with a new hair color". I really wish Toriyama were a little more creative with his transformation design...
    Dragonball Super isn't exactly about going in a new direction for the series. GT tried that and failed.

    Super is clearly taking the heart of Z's joy of fighting with increasingly greater power and stakes while removing a lot of Z's obsession with moving on and dynamically evolving each of the character. Goku is no longer looking to pass the torch, Vegeta is no longer conflicted about who he is, even the kids aren't growing up, evolving, and displaying shifting personalities.

    Super everyone knows who they are, what they are about, and what they would like to do. They are happy to tell stories about how the great Goku keeps getting stronger and increasing the stakes even if they have to introduce new orders of gods and universes to make that credible.

    They do it beautifully, but don't expect this series to be anything but that. Goku with blue hair is perfect for a series that is all about celebrating both nostalgia (pretty explicitly if you hear the opening music) and repeating the core formula.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    I never said DBS isn't a lazy cash-in on nostalgia... I just mentioned I wished transformations were more interesting.

    Then again, if I really had to make a change to the DB franchise, it'd be making the supporting cast far more relevant than they are. Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin, Tien... Even Yamcha!
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2019-01-10 at 09:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Incidentally, while I can't confirm, I've read that the super Anime's coming back: First new arc will be an adaption of Broly movie(On one hand, I hope they take the critisism of the BoG and RF adaptions to heart. on the other... The possibility of SSGSSEKKx10 Gogeta) and the Arc after that will be the arc that the Super Manga is doing currently.

    While I have no exact confirmation, the fact that theManga is continuing past the Tournament of power tells me that the anime will be back eventually soeven if the thing I read is wrong.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Incidentally, while I can't confirm, I've read that the super Anime's coming back: First new arc will be an adaption of Broly movie(On one hand, I hope they take the critisism of the BoG and RF adaptions to heart. on the other... The possibility of SSGSSEKKx10 Gogeta) and the Arc after that will be the arc that the Super Manga is doing currently.

    While I have no exact confirmation, the fact that theManga is continuing past the Tournament of power tells me that the anime will be back eventually soeven if the thing I read is wrong.
    I wasn't even aware that the manga was still going on, that's pretty awesome to see, thanks for the heads-up on that one, consuming all post ToP material right now ^^.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Sooo, DBS can be super inconsistent at times. How in the hell does Goku and Vegeta get taken out by a stun gun of all things? I mean..seriously, they take galaxy destroying attacks head-on, but a simple stun gun knocks them out? Seriously? Rawr. And if I'm not mistaken, I seem to recall an incident with Goku after the future trunks arc where Goku gets nicked by a bullet. One of the few things that has really irritated me with DBS. You can't have your characters regularly tanking planet to galaxy destroying attacks, and then turn around and an arc later have them hurt or even entirely incapacitated by something so mundane as a bullet or stun gun.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    It's not as inconsistent as you'd think.

    Remember: Ki users are not superhumanly tough(except the aliens and Artificial Humans, and even then not that much. Shrugging off a low calibur handgunbulletis the most we've ever seen from somoene who wasn't activly using Ki orit's equivelent.) They're using their Ki to reinforcetheir bodies.

    It's the same reason why Goku could get taken out by a Laser Gun--if he isn't properly on guard, he's not using his ki to defend himself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It's the same reason why Goku could get taken out by a Laser Gun--if he isn't properly on guard, he's not using his ki to defend himself.
    Taken out by a laser gun from a civilization that mass-produces FTL ships that are the same size as the pilot and seemingly never need to refuel meaning they can compress insane amounts of energy in pretty small spaces.

    Also Goku always needs to dodge simple swords even when on guard, I can't really recall any instance when somebody swings a blade at him and the weapon just bounces off/breaks.

    So more like bullets in DBverse get the nerfbat like usual in most shonen series.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  11. - Top - End - #1241
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Also Goku always needs to dodge simple swords even when on guard, I can't really recall any instance when somebody swings a blade at him and the weapon just bounces off/breaks.
    Ahem...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Bp0Ca9iBc

    BTW, it's not so much that they have to be on guard, as much as ki users are seemingly capable of choosing how strong/fast/durable they are in their "off time". There are scenes of sleeping characters blocking powerful attacks... And nonsensical **** like Goku getting pierced by a laser or Krillin being hurt by a bullet.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2019-01-11 at 11:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Goku's hands are strong enough from training to rip through steel, of course they can block a sword, but the rest of his body's not nearly as tough, case in point...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    BTW, it's not so much that they have to be on guard, as much as ki users are seemingly capable of choosing how strong/fast/durable they are in their "off time". There are scenes of sleeping characters blocking powerful attacks... And nonsensical **** like Goku getting pierced by a laser or Krillin being hurt by a bullet.
    ...Krillin makes super sayan Goku cry with the true ultimate human weapon, thrown rocks to the face!

    Shame Krillin decided to seal this forbidden technique and never ever use it again. I would totally pay to see a DB reboot where Krillin makes all the big villains cry by throwing rocks at them.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-01-11 at 11:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    ...Krillin makes super sayan Goku cry with the true ultimate human weapon, thrown rocks to the face!

    Shame Krillin decided to seal this forbidden technique and never ever use it again. I would totally pay to see a DB reboot where Krillin makes all the big villains cry by throwing rocks at them.
    Krillin is OP! He killed Cell with a single attack!

    And remember that back in original DB, Bulma and Launch used to wake up Goku and the gang with bullets! And they were startled and annoyed, but otherwise completely fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Krillin is OP! He killed Cell with a single attack!

    And remember that back in original DB, Bulma and Launch used to wake up Goku and the gang with bullets! And they were startled and annoyed, but otherwise completely fine.
    Toryamma changed the rules all the time. Maybe he thought that them being bullett proof all the time was boring, it seems now that the krillin rock and resserrction f laser is how it works now. And thats more exciting to me for s series that says its about martial arts

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Krillin is OP! He killed Cell with a single attack!

    And remember that back in original DB, Bulma and Launch used to wake up Goku and the gang with bullets! And they were startled and annoyed, but otherwise completely fine.
    Again, the simplest explanation is that bullets are nerfed to hell in DBverse like in most action media. Luffy shruggs off bullets just fine but swords and plain punches are a threat to him. Swordmasters of all kinds deflect/cut bullets during their sleep but struggle against other people with swords and unarmed warriors. In Final Fantasy VII guns are literally the weakest weapons by damage numbers. In Super Smash Brothers Snake doesn't even bother bringing bullet based guns, he goes straight from unarmed combat to rockets, mortars and grenades! In Xenoblade Chronicles gun damage was so nerfed that it suffered an underflow error and your party's gunner bullets are better at healing others than actually hurting them!
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-01-12 at 06:01 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    well making truffle race cannon means basically kinda nothing but the new truffle twins gave me a funny idea where one little mad scientist kidnaped wrong twins and turned them to android then release them to the public. as for brolly getting tamed by decent fight the real question I like to know is is freza knows his most berserk warrior still under his payroll or the resent coming back from dead make him decide to wash his hand from anything happening with Saiyans. ow know I get it we are kinda gonna have small baby saga in side anime then thanks to the second season of super legitimizing the prison planet and brolly arcs we have a unique situation as super saiyan 4 and god forms gonna be increasing at the long run. as for old frenemies returning thanks to fu we have third reason to get our big bads to return and for all in all pilaf gang kinda defuse them selfs thanks to mai leaving them on the long run thus GT or NXT we are sailing to new horizons on the series.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    Toryamma changed the rules all the time. Maybe he thought that them being bullett proof all the time was boring, it seems now that the krillin rock and resserrction f laser is how it works now. And thats more exciting to me for s series that says its about martial arts
    DBZ has always been susceptible to Rule of Funny... I guess Rule of Drama also applies now.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Goku's hands are strong enough from training to rip through steel, of course they can block a sword, but the rest of his body's not nearly as tough, case in point...



    ...Krillin makes super sayan Goku cry with the true ultimate human weapon, thrown rocks to the face!

    Shame Krillin decided to seal this forbidden technique and never ever use it again. I would totally pay to see a DB reboot where Krillin makes all the big villains cry by throwing rocks at them.
    Its repeated plenty of times that Goku can be hurt by ordinary stuff (including bullets in one DBS episode) when he's not on guard. The explanation for why a bullet stung him was that he "was slacking off in training." A similar thing happened to Krillin in filler.

    I'm not sure if its about Ki control or also about posture, readiness, and trained body toughness. Its been pointed out Satan, a non-Ki user, is superhumanly strong.

    Also this talk about Ki as if its separate from physical training is misleading. If you really are about eastern martial arts philosophy, everything is Ki, so everyone is using Ki all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
    The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.

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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    That one seems to be a bit of a change from at least the pre-Saiyan stories, probably before. In the early days, when Dragon Ball was more of a retelling of Journey to the West, Goku and others were just naturally tough. Once the story was more focused on the martial arts, especially once ki powers became the norm, their physical resistance became directly tied to how much energy they were employing (that's how Goku's Kaioken x20 Kamehameha hurt Freeza when he was only using half his power), and being caught off-guard had a huge impact on it (that's why cyborg Tao Pai Pai's sneak attack with his hidden blade actually hurt Tien, when Goku was able to parry Trunks' sword with a finger; or why Piccolo could kick Freeza dozens of meters away when he was already in his final form).

    Off the top of my head, the only post-Saiyan instance of characters displaying natural super-hardiness was in a comedic scene where Bulma fires at Krillin and Roshi for sleeping while she spent the night slaving away.

    ETA: Plus, let's be honest, Toriyama is inconsistent as heck. For better or worse, he cares about telling a story, not continuity.
    Last edited by The Troubadour; 2019-01-14 at 07:04 AM.

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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
    The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.

    Thanks to half-halfling for the avatar

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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    ...Hopefully you are referring to DBZ and DB. DBS' anime came before and takes precedent over the manga. Honestly for good reason, it makes some really baffling decisions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran View Post
    ...Hopefully you are referring to DBZ and DB. DBS' anime came before and takes precedent over the manga. Honestly for good reason, it makes some really baffling decisions.
    Why should the older version take priority? Shouldn't the newer version replace old obsolete stuff?

    If the author decided to redo the manga from start, would you call it all invalid? Then shouldn't the old manga also be invalid and only the first pencil drafts be the one true version?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Why should the older version take priority? Shouldn't the newer version replace old obsolete stuff?

    If the author decided to redo the manga from start, would you call it all invalid? Then shouldn't the old manga also be invalid and only the first pencil drafts be the one true version?
    Ah, so all adaptations to new media are the new versions and thus automatically better?

    like all movie adaptations. those are never worse than the original! ever!
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Why should the older version take priority? Shouldn't the newer version replace old obsolete stuff?

    If the author decided to redo the manga from start, would you call it all invalid? Then shouldn't the old manga also be invalid and only the first pencil drafts be the one true version?
    Because its not 'old and obsolete' for the most part. The manga started during the anime's run, not after it finished or anything and it wasn't done by Toriyama, it was essentially done by a guy who did a famous fan-fic manga of Dragon Ball who got the chance of a life time.

    The same guy took some liberties in a few regards, such as changing around crucial action scenes, changing the personality of Goku Black in a rather glaring way, and when it came to the Tournament of Power had to basically guess at the personality of several characters because he didn't know what they were actually going to be. Jiren is a much different character for this reason.

    So this isn't a case of Toriyama going back to redo the manga and calling the older version invalid, its a case of a second party being given the reigns of the manga adaptation while not being in the loop about who and what was going on. Glaringly so at times.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    The super anime has literally always taken precedence over the manga. They were wildly different from the word go and the anime always was considered first and foremost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Ah, so all adaptations to new media are the new versions and thus automatically better?

    like all movie adaptations. those are never worse than the original! ever!
    Not always, I've seen it go both ways. I personally love anime CCS a lot more than manga CCS (in particular Meiling). And let's face it, the DB anime was what made it really popular over the world, not the manga.

    Meanwhile the Goblin Slayer anime ended being inferior to the manga, and I also prefered the Overlord light novels that came before the anime despite me seeing the anime first.

    But claiming that the anime version is auto-wrong is just silly, in particular when sometimes the anime version comes out first like the recent DBS.

    When most people think of DB, they think of planets being blown up left, right and center with Goku lifting islands, that's what made it really popular, all the over-the top stuff, not puny manga Goku who struggles with a mere 10 tons of weight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    I can't believe we're having yet another discussion of which is more canon, the DBS manga or the DBS anime. I'd say "What a fandom", but really, this is hardly specific to Dragon Ball fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Troubadour View Post
    I can't believe we're having yet another discussion of which is more canon, the DBS manga or the DBS anime. I'd say "What a fandom", but really, this is hardly specific to Dragon Ball fans.
    I agree, I've never understood arguing over what's more canon in something. Everything is Canon, Not everything is in the same continuity.

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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    I always saw them as complimentary. You find out various little details in the manga that donít often come up in super, like exactly what happened when Trunks fought Dabura, that donít really contradict the anime so are equally likely to be true.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    IIRC, manga, anime and movies have been confirmed to all be "canon", but on different timelines.
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