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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Nope, sorry. You don't get to literally say that you hope something is bad and that you only watch it to complain and then say that the bias is on someone else's end in the very same post. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

    I just don't understand you guys. You are actually admitting that you are doing something but then immediately turning around and pretending it doesn't happen.


    DC has had one reboot in the last 20+ years, and they are in the process of reverting back to the old status quo because the fans didn't like it.

    One.
    1. No. You are making the rest of us out to be a bad conspiracy theory. All we're saying is that DC has a lousy track record and since they seem pathologically unable to understand why or how their own movies are bad, completely unable to analyze the competition and see what fans like about them and equally unable to understand their own frakking characters... People are getting fed up and just want them to tank so bad they burn to the ground. Again, it is telling that the one movie Snyder wasn't directly invovled in; the one movie DC didn't expect to do well, etc etc became the most viewed Superhero Origin story ever.

    2. Really? Yes, I exaggerated, but they have had quite a few.

    Superboy (1945) - First reboot, to tie in a number of new properties and characters DC had bought, "aquired" or invented over the years.
    Flash of Two Worlds (1961) - Hard-ish reboot with a deliberately parallell universe going with Silver and Bronze age characters in separate universes.

    Crisis on Infinite Earths (1986) - Full, "hard" reboot.
    Zero Hour: Crisis in Time! (1994) - Trying to correct crap created by Crisis.
    Infinite Crisis (2005–06) - Trying to correct crap created by Crisis.
    Final Crisis (2008) - Trying to correct crap created by Crisis (there's a pattern here)
    The Flashpoint (2011) - Full, "hard" beboot. - Deleting at least half of all characters fans liked. Changing back Barbara into Batgirl to "empower her" which created a HUGE backlash with fans who are physically handicapped or hurt in some way.
    Rebirth (2016) - Full, "hard" reboot. - Trying to return to pre-flashpoint. Didn't really work as well as they hoped.

    Add to this even softer single-character reboots (some I can think of):
    The transformation of WW to an unpowered "super spy" and dress store owner in the late 60's...
    The very soft retcon that Legion of Superheroes still existed and somehow Supergirl existed too, but only in the Superboy comics and nothing else - 1987
    The death of superman, the various supermans, superman red and blue, black-uniform superman, old superman with santa's beard... (1990s, or as it's commonly known "the Decade that was pathetic in every way)
    The Kingdom and "Hypertime" - 1999
    Superman Birthright - 2003 (changing of Supes origin)
    The Legion gets rebooted three times in five years - 2005 - 2010
    Superman gets his origin back - 2009
    Superman gets a new origin - 2010

    I am sure I have missed a lot.

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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Yeah...most of those aren't even reboots. Are you just counting every tiny change as a reboot? I guess we're just using the word differently. I'm talking about rebooting the entire universe.

    Things like character origins change from issue to issue, so I don't even count that any more. Both Marvel and DC have their backstories so convoluted at this point that they can't even keep them straight themselves.


    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    1. No. You are making the rest of us out to be a bad conspiracy theory. All we're saying is that DC has a lousy track record and since they seem pathologically unable to understand why or how their own movies are bad, completely unable to analyze the competition and see what fans like about them and equally unable to understand their own frakking characters... People are getting fed up and just want them to tank so bad they burn to the ground. Again, it is telling that the one movie Snyder wasn't directly invovled in; the one movie DC didn't expect to do well, etc etc became the most viewed Superhero Origin story ever.
    Again. While this is a perfectly valid personal opinion, it's not a good position to come from if you're trying to give a movie review to someone who doesn't share your hope that the movie sucks so they burn everything to the ground.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2017-11-24 at 01:42 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    I consider reboots reboots. That you don't explains your higher tolerance for bull****.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    I dunno. It feels like back in the day. Marvel people are acting like they are when DragonBallz, Death Note or Naruto were a thing. Talking them up like they are this big grand thing. Like then, now I am like.. they are good.. but are being way to hyped up.

    The opposite is true for Dc. It's like back when.. The backstreet boys, nsync.. or nickleback were being hated on. I listened to some of them to see what the hype was about them. Again I was like aren't as bad as some people are making them out to be. I don't think they are amazing. Not newarly as bad as people are making it out to be.

    I mean, if you watch marvel movies.. I mean watch them without the whole hero worship.. thing. You will realize, most of them are just. Meh. A couple are actually good. They get by mostly on the cotton candy aspect.

    Dc is almost the opposite. They have some good things. Some legitimately claims of criticism. However those claims are being blown away out of proportion.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Nope, sorry. You don't get to literally say that you hope something is bad and that you only watch it to complain and then say that the bias is on someone else's end in the very same post. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.
    I feel like you're not really paying attention.

    I think almost anyone would wish that the DC movies were cinematic marvels talked about until the heat death of the universe. No one, that I've seen, has some tribal grudge against DC and simply wishes for their movies to tank for those reasons.

    DC has a bad track record so far. And it's pretty bad. You can apologize for that all you want, or pretend that you're unbiased when you don't seem to be, but that's the rub. They can't get critics on board with their DCEU, and audiences are divided at best. That is completely unconnected to my hope that they reboot this DCEU so we get something better. Or completely unconnected from my want to watch it so I can talk about it. I did not make JL a bad movie. It simply *is* a bad movie.
    I just don't understand you guys. You are actually admitting that you are doing something but then immediately turning around and pretending it doesn't happen.
    You don't understand because you're choosing not to. As I said, I hate the X-Men cinematic universe. I went into First Class expecting not to like it. I was surprised. I liked it a lot. See how that works? It's like... if the movie is good, I might like it despite my expectations and despite Fox's ****ty track record. I went into Guardians of the Galaxy thinking I wasn't going to like it either, and I walked out of the theater loving it.

    Stop pretending that because the current DCEU is awful and based on those facts we don't expect much and we'd like to see it rebooted, our opinions are poisoned or something. Give me a break. The mind exists to perceive things and make value judgements based on those things.

    I like the Amazing Spider-Man movies. A lot. Many people hated them, my friends included, critics included. I'm baffled by this. I listen to their critiques and I'm like "Hmm... I can see that. It didn't bother me, but I see what you're saying." or I might say "I didn't see it that way actually, I think it was done well." This is opposed to "Ugh, all this Sony hate by Marvel fanbois. You guys are so biased. It's just like a bandwagon thing to hate on Sony right now. Everyone is hating on Sony now for NO REASON."

    Now most people really enjoy the new Spiderman, and Homecoming was a hit. Am I going to turn around and start saying "See?! When Marvel did Spiderman now you guys all love it! Total fanbois. That's the reason Amazing Spiderman failed, you guys never gave it a shot!!!"

    No, I won't say that because it's a foolish argument to make. I'm saying "these are X things that I didn't like about the movie" and you're saying "you weren't expecting it to be good so your opinion is invalid".

    Someone there is biased but I don't think it's me.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    I feel like you're not really paying attention.

    I think almost anyone would wish that the DC movies were cinematic marvels talked about until the heat death of the universe. No one, that I've seen, has some tribal grudge against DC and simply wishes for their movies to tank for those reasons.
    Absolutely. Nobody had a problem accepting Wonder Woman as a good film.

    We just want, yknow, more of that.
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    I feel like you're not really paying attention.

    I think almost anyone would wish that the DC movies were cinematic marvels talked about until the heat death of the universe. No one, that I've seen, has some tribal grudge against DC and simply wishes for their movies to tank for those reasons.

    DC has a bad track record so far. And it's pretty bad. You can apologize for that all you want, or pretend that you're unbiased when you don't seem to be, but that's the rub. They can't get critics on board with their DCEU, and audiences are divided at best. That is completely unconnected to my hope that they reboot this DCEU so we get something better. Or completely unconnected from my want to watch it so I can talk about it. I did not make JL a bad movie. It simply *is* a bad movie.

    You don't understand because you're choosing not to. As I said, I hate the X-Men cinematic universe. I went into First Class expecting not to like it. I was surprised. I liked it a lot. See how that works? It's like... if the movie is good, I might like it despite my expectations and despite Fox's ****ty track record. I went into Guardians of the Galaxy thinking I wasn't going to like it either, and I walked out of the theater loving it.

    Stop pretending that because the current DCEU is awful and based on those facts we don't expect much and we'd like to see it rebooted, our opinions are poisoned or something. Give me a break. The mind exists to perceive things and make value judgements based on those things.

    I like the Amazing Spider-Man movies. A lot. Many people hated them, my friends included, critics included. I'm baffled by this. I listen to their critiques and I'm like "Hmm... I can see that. It didn't bother me, but I see what you're saying." or I might say "I didn't see it that way actually, I think it was done well." This is opposed to "Ugh, all this Sony hate by Marvel fanbois. You guys are so biased. It's just like a bandwagon thing to hate on Sony right now. Everyone is hating on Sony now for NO REASON."

    Now most people really enjoy the new Spiderman, and Homecoming was a hit. Am I going to turn around and start saying "See?! When Marvel did Spiderman now you guys all love it! Total fanbois. That's the reason Amazing Spiderman failed, you guys never gave it a shot!!!"

    No, I won't say that because it's a foolish argument to make. I'm saying "these are X things that I didn't like about the movie" and you're saying "you weren't expecting it to be good so your opinion is invalid".

    Someone there is biased but I don't think it's me.
    No, I'm saying that when you cross over from "I don't expect it to be good" to "I hope it fails so they tear the whole thing down" you've lost your credibility as a reviewer. If you admit being biased, you don't get to turn around and claim you aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    I consider reboots reboots. That you don't explains your higher tolerance for bull****.
    You're the one who brought up the universal reboot as an example, so naturally I thought that's what you were talking about.

    If you're going to count every single time a character's history changes at all as a "reboot" then I don't know why you're only criticizing DC. Marvel does it just as frequently. At this point it's part of the medium as a whole. Whenever a new writer finds part of a character's past as inconvenient for their story, they pretend it doesn't exist. It's not good writing, but it's part of the medium and we have to deal with it.

    Also, Rebirth is the best thing to happen to comicbooks in a long time. We finally have a major company putting out books that are actually good after the better part of a decade of both Marvel and DC books being awful.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2017-11-24 at 01:39 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    I got tired, a long time ago, of having a great run with one of my favorite characters just to have her or his books cancelled, rebooted, reworked, rebranded or refrakked up in some other way. At least these days they start the numbering over at 1 (or more often 0) most of the time so you can look at the cover and go "Jeez, what did the idiots do now".

    Which is the main reason I'm not reading comics anymore. This is why I still haven't gone back to Marvel since One More Day. It pissed me off so royally that I stayed away for years and years... and just when I was going back they killed off Peter and replaced him with Doc Ock. That was stupid in itself, but when they produced proof that the writer had to sit at Comic Con and lie to little kids that literally was crying when coming up to him asking when Peter was coming back and he said "never". Because he had to. That REALLY made me mad.
    Basically for me, the only continuity for comics I care about is the Marvel Movie Universe. Becaue it started from scratch, is reasonably faitful to characters, and is not frakking things up too much, so far. Their comic books are dead to me.

    Edit: Rebirth is a reSET, I guess, since it's basically a big "Oops we ****ed up" backpedal from DC. But you know, they could have decied to not **** up at all to begin with... Guess that thought never entered their minds.
    Last edited by Avilan the Grey; 2017-11-24 at 01:59 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Edit: Rebirth is a reSET, I guess, since it's basically a big "Oops we ****ed up" backpedal from DC. But you know, they could have decied to not **** up at all to begin with... Guess that thought never entered their minds.
    Easier said than done. At least they admitted they messed up and are trying to fix it, unlike Marvel who doubles down on every mistake.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    No, I'm saying that when you cross over from "I don't expect it to be good" to "I hope it fails so they tear the whole thing down" you've lost your credibility as a reviewer. If you admit being biased, you don't get to turn around and claim you aren't.
    You seem to be mistaking wanting something to fail for wanting it to be bad. He's saying he wants DC's movie universe to fail - as in commercially - because it has thus far largely been bad, and a reboot (which would only happen in the event that they decide that their attempts thus far have been a failure) may result in something better taking its place. That's not the same as wanting the films to be bad. If someone wanted them to be bad, they'd already be happy with how they are. He expects them to be bad, because that's DC's track record thus far, but that's also different from wanting that to be the case.

    Presumably, if that expectation started to be proven wrong and DC's films became good, the desire for them to fail would go away, because then there'd be no reason to believe a reboot was needed to make something good out of them.
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Easier said than done. At least they admitted they messed up and are trying to fix it, unlike Marvel who doubles down on every mistake.
    Yeah.. I yell at DC, while Marvel has pissed me off so much more (see above). They are both doing it wrong ofcourse. Marvel is as you say digging in, making it worse and worse. DC is like a moth to a flame... They do "soft reboots" almost constantly, almost always throwing out the baby with the bath water in the process, and then starting over. And over. And over.
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    No, I'm saying that when you cross over from "I don't expect it to be good" to "I hope it fails so they tear the whole thing down" you've lost your credibility as a reviewer.
    Sure, and I'm saying you don't know what you're talking about. I've lost credibility? You haven't even watched the movie OR you have watched it and have decided not to share your thoughts on it. Why do I care if you think my opinions on the movie are credible? You're acting like a DC fanboy that doesn't like to see criticism of the DCEU movies. You haven't commented on the actual movie itself, you're just here to invalidate negative opinions of the movies. Give me a break calling credibility into question, lmfao.

    You can't seem to appreciate the difference between wanting a bad movie to fail miserably so that the studio has to take action, and hoping the movies are bad. Maybe because you're... biased?
    If you admit being biased, you don't get to turn around and claim you aren't.
    Here is a bias; I HATE seeing superheroes fight each other.

    Here is not a bias; DC movies have generally not met with critical success so far.

    The former will influence my opinion on a movie. The latter will not.

    Why don't you tell us about your own biases instead of pretending you're being objective here?
    If you're going to count every single time a character's history changes at all as a "reboot" then I don't know why you're only criticizing DC. Marvel does it just as frequently.
    At least they admitted they messed up and are trying to fix it, unlike Marvel who doubles down on every mistake.
    Is... is this a fanboy? Do we have a DC apologist here, that hates Marvel???
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  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Well.. im back from watching the movie. It was a good movie, i am not disapointed i spend the money on it, unlike the last two starwars movies.

    But all the same then i am disapointed, because they movie had potential to be great.

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    Most of all i am disapointed that they more or less completely ignored the buildup/teasers from BvS. Its like they had a more ambitious planned, and then went "nahh.. screw it.. basic monster/invasion fight it is.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
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    ...Its like they had a more ambitious planned, and then went "nahh.. screw it.. basic monster/invasion fight it is.
    That's explicitly what happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    Is... is this a fanboy? Do we have a DC apologist here, that hates Marvel???
    Do you always pop into other people's conversations just to insult them? The comments I made were in direct reference to Avilian's comments about Marvel claiming "no Spidey is totes dead forever". Which you'd know if you bothered to follow the conversation instead of just cherry-picking things to take random jabs at.

    And not that I have any obligation to defend myself to an internet troll, but I like Marvel. At least, I like their characters and I like their movies. I haven't enjoyed most of their comics since they had Spidey sell his marriage to the devil though. Marvel's editorial team is infamous for making stupid decisions, lying about them, and sticking with them past the point of all reason. Any Marvel fan who actually follows their books can tell you that.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2017-11-24 at 04:37 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Do you always pop into other people's conversations just to insult them?
    The irony is over 9000...

    This is a thread about the Justice League movie. You have popped into this conversation to imply that most of the people complaining about the movie are biased and don't have credible opinions. You've done this without even adding your own review or thoughts on the movie itself. So... who's doing what now??
    And not that I have any obligation to defend myself to an internet troll, but...
    Correct. Keep this feeling in mind next time you decide to "contribute" to a thread about a movie. Don't put people on the defensive by assuming their intents and motives. Keep the discussion on the movie itself instead. I'm perfectly capable of keeping things civil if we disagree on the movie itself. But when you and Khyberwulf go around acting like you're the only objective ones watching movies and everyone else is just trying to fit in, you're going to get pushback.
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Gonna be honest. Only read the first 2.5 pages.

    Well, I watched it, and overall really liked it. My biggest beefs were the bad dude being so 1-dimensional, Aquaman feeling kind of useless, and the inconsistent power (like who beat whom when).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post

    I like the Amazing Spider-Man movies. A lot. Many people hated them, my friends included, critics included. I'm baffled by this. I listen to their critiques and I'm like "Hmm... I can see that. It didn't bother me, but I see what you're saying." or I might say "I didn't see it that way actually, I think it was done well." This is opposed to "Ugh, all this Sony hate by Marvel fanbois. You guys are so biased. It's just like a bandwagon thing to hate on Sony right now. Everyone is hating on Sony now for NO REASON."

    Now most people really enjoy the new Spiderman, and Homecoming was a hit. Am I going to turn around and start saying "See?! When Marvel did Spiderman now you guys all love it! Total fanbois. That's the reason Amazing Spiderman failed, you guys never gave it a shot!!!"
    The other Spidermen movies were good, except 3, which sucked. They messed up Venom by making him emo when he wore it.
    Now, the anger thing happened in the 90's cartoon series, but they handled it better since they didn't waste time. So it you don't groan.
    I like the new one, really hoping they don't mess up next New Spiderman movie.
    Wish we could just get a Venom movie do flashback like Last Hulk reboot did. It can be rated R since it would be Brock as venom. Be cool if at end he loses suit and it slips/bonds to a guadropedic named Flash Thompson.
    Next Movie called Agent Venom, Agent of Shield (like comics).

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    Regarding the "Justice League has a much higher audience review score vs critics" can maybe be explained by a somewhat lackluster audience. People who were on the fence either way probably did not got see it, while people who were enthusiasts did. Which explains maybe why more of this self-selecting population enjoyed the experience?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Regarding the "Justice League has a much higher audience review score vs critics" [...] Which explains maybe why more of this self-selecting population enjoyed the experience?
    I'd think that it's fairly common for films exploiting a particular theme or genre to have a higher audience score than critic score. If you'd like the type of film in general then you may enjoy a particular film even though as a movie it's not that great. You got what was on the tin and that's what you wanted, even if other people wouldn't like it who aren't interested in that type of thing.

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    "Like the old proverb says, if one sees something not right, one must draw out his sword to intervene"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    The irony is over 9000...

    This is a thread about the Justice League movie. You have popped into this conversation to imply that most of the people complaining about the movie are biased and don't have credible opinions. You've done this without even adding your own review or thoughts on the movie itself. So... who's doing what now??

    Correct. Keep this feeling in mind next time you decide to "contribute" to a thread about a movie. Don't put people on the defensive by assuming their intents and motives. Keep the discussion on the movie itself instead. I'm perfectly capable of keeping things civil if we disagree on the movie itself. But when you and Khyberwulf go around acting like you're the only objective ones watching movies and everyone else is just trying to fit in, you're going to get pushback.
    It's not my fault you literally admitted to being biased and then got mad and started throwing out insults when I pointed it out.

    If you want people to think you're objective, maybe don't tell them all about how you hope the thing you're reviewing fails and is awful so the franchise gets cancelled. Or at least try not to throw out a bunch of personal attacks when people point out that you contradicted yourself.

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Clertar View Post
    Funny enough The Room has a higher critic score than BVS and suicide squad.
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  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    That's explicitly what happened.
    Do we know why the abbandoned the deeper plot?

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    Mainly superman being ressurected by Darkseid.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    It's not my fault you literally admitted to being biased and then got mad and started throwing out insults when I pointed it out.
    I'm not mad. Maybe irked. But I've had these same discussions with Khyber several times already (you'll notice I stopped replying to him). There will be people that don't like something (like me) and there will be people that come in and defend the movie or show by telling me the reason I don't like it is X (that's you and Khyber). It's tiresome to have people tell you why you have your own opinions, but what can anyone do against apologists that can't be reasoned with?

    And what insults lol? The fanboy comment was mocking your "dismiss-you-with-labels" attempt at discussion. I don't know if you're an actual fanboy and I don't really care. Again, you conspicuously have not even given your thoughts on the topic of this thread, so I assume you haven't watched the film. But here you are telling people to ignore our opinions on it. What an absolute joke lol.
    If you want people to think you're objective, maybe don't tell them all about how you hope the thing you're reviewing fails and is awful so the franchise gets cancelled.
    I didn't. I admitted that to you when you brought it up. I didn't think you'd be so one-dimensional, or that you're literally defending a movie you haven't even seen yet.

    Look, here's the thing Anteros, you're not saying anything meaningful. I've already explained I went into First Class with the same feelings and thought it was great. But I guess according to you my positive opinion of First Class should be ignored because I don't like the Fox X-men cinematic universe.

    I suspect the real bias here is your negativity bias. If I had come in and said "I've liked every movie in the DCEU so far, with each one being better than the one before it, and as expected Justice League is no exception to this trend. The characters are great, the plot is engaging, and the special effects are on point. I hope the DCEU keeps putting out more great movies and I'm excited to see what they have in store for us" you wouldn't even flinch at my thoughts on the movie. You wouldn't be posting "don't let the opinions of someone that expected the movie to be good and wants the DCEU to succeed to sway you". But because the expectations are negative, you have a problem.

    You are not being insightful. You just don't like to see people complain. We get it. Move on. Go watch the movie and come back with actual insights.
    Or at least try not to throw out a bunch of personal attacks when people point out that you contradicted yourself.
    What personal attacks? People are just giving their opinions and you come in and suggest we're trying to be "trendy", and Khyber says we're trying to be "edgy". And the best part is you said it without an irony lmfao. You told me I lost my credibility to be a reviewer. Um... ok, lol. I guess I'll get rid of my non-existent blog .

    I don't think you understand how bias works (and that's not a personal attack). I normally agree with CBG19 (generally speaking). I didn't like Thor: Ragnarok. She absolutely loved it. She thinks it might be her favorite Marvel movie right now. Why? Well a lot of what informed her opinion is the fact that she's an artist, a cos-player and a HUGE Kirby fan. So she really enjoyed the aesthetics of the movie and that it stayed true to Kirby's vision. So, that's a bias. But it doesn't invalidate her opinion on the movie. It doesn't make it less credible.

    I don't like seeing superheroes fight each other, so I had that bias going into BvS.

    I don't have a problem admitting biases. But the idea that it's impossible for me to like a movie that I expect to be bad, and therefore if I don't like the movie it's a foregone conclusion and my opinion doesn't matter, that's nonsense.

    Good luck to you and Khyber and all the other mentats finding opinions that lack any bias .
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  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Do we know why the abbandoned the deeper plot?

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    Mainly superman being ressurected by Darkseid.
    You mean other than Executive Meddling that forced the Movie into NECESSARILY fit 2 hs frame at all costs for business reasons; and the various hands that touched the film because of production issues? There are various parts of the film that were reshoot with different scripts because nobody was clear on the theme the movie would follow as a whole. Those are things that wouldn't happen in the producers assigned a REAL team of creatives that would work together to create a better story, despite whatever direction/production issues that could arise. At least that's why Marvel works

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Regarding the "Justice League has a much higher audience review score vs critics" can maybe be explained by a somewhat lackluster audience. People who were on the fence either way probably did not got see it, while people who were enthusiasts did. Which explains maybe why more of this self-selecting population enjoyed the experience?
    By the same logic, the low score by "critics" could be explained by Disney bribing/secretly buying RottenTomatoes to create aversion to any DC film in the general fandom.

    But no, just as movies/products have a loyal fandom; it's obvious they have a similar counterpart (hatedom). And it's safe to assume that a significant portion of both populations sail around the web with the sole purpose of praising/bashing their object of idolatry/spite. And obviously, both populations are equally as prone of watching the movie with the sole purpose of rating it; or even voting without actually having watched the movie. So in reality (or, in theory, rather) it should eventually even/cancel out.

    And if you ask yourself why superhero movies have better ratings than Scarface, that's because regular people have no sense of scale. Specially those who actually bother to rate in a public scoring source. Not to mention the very concept of rating art is silly enough in and of itself
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  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeltion View Post
    By the same logic, the low score by reviewers could be explained by Disney bribing/secretly buying RottenTomatoes to create aversion to any DC film in the general fandom.
    Only if you're an insane person.

    ps Warner Bros are the ones who actually own 30% of Rotten Tomatoes.

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by joeltion View Post
    And if you ask yourself why superhero movies have better ratings than Scarface, that's because regular people have no sense of scale. Specially those who actually bother to rate in a public scoring source. Not to mention the very concept of rating art is silly enough in and of itself
    No. I means you have no idea how the RottenTomatoes rating system works.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    You mean other than Executive Meddling that forced the Movie into NECESSARILY fit 2 hs frame at all costs for business reasons; and the various hands that touched the film because of production issues? There are various parts of the film that were reshoot with different scripts because nobody was clear on the theme the movie would follow as a whole. Those are things that wouldn't happen in the producers assigned a REAL team of creatives that would work together to create a better story, despite whatever direction/production issues that could arise. At least that's why Marvel works
    Ughn.. that does sound retarted.. whatever idiot who though those things were a good idea certainly deserves whatever negative feedback this brings..
    If you dont have a coherent vision for the movie then you should not begin to shoot it.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Just watched it, and actually enjoyed the first 2/3rds. The Flash was a huge part of it - he kind of lightened things up just by being included, but more importantly, by not being so sure of himself.

    I liked the arc they gave to Wonder Woman, but after her solo movie, the return to ZS's perv gaze shots were kind of sad. Yes, her arse is glorious, we understand, please stop.


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    Cyborg's entire schtick. He admits he doesn't know what's going on with his body, but when he decides to join up, he's suddenly really confident at everything. And it just falls flat.

    The "So Anyway"-ing of Atlantis. There's so much left unanswered, everything left unseen. It's so frustrating.

    Batflek using the EXACT SAME argument to the League for resurrecting Superman that he did in wanting to take him out. "If there's a 1% chance of Plot Device working, we must treat it as a 100% certainty". Seriously, What?

    All of Superman. I didn't notice the CG'd shave, but after he came back to his senses, that final third of the movie was just sad. One of the issues of the DC universe even in the comics, is that Superman is just too super to make a meaningful story if there are any other people involved. I actually liked him being a bit lighter post-resurrection, and I'm almost certain that he had more lines in this movie (even though dead for 2/3rds of it) than he did in all of BvS combined.


    At this point, I see two potential ways they could easily pseudo-reboot the Universe (in the same manner of Days of Future Past) in a way to get them out of this mess.

    1) Use the Flash movie to do a time-travel based pseudo-reboot. They may use the Flashpoint story, they may not, but that will allow them to continue to use Gal Gadot, Jason Mamoa, and Ezra Miller while replacing Ben Affleck as Batman (and possibly a slightly younger version of superman), and fixing up the Suicide squad fiasco. This would give them the ability to keep the Wonder Woman movie as cannon while dumping the rest.

    2) Go all-in on the way they're doing things, but follow the Injustice storyline. It's already decently known outside of the comics due to the fairly successful video game, but more importantly, they can introduce a bunch of DC characters at one go (exactly like they're doing now), and use the collective power of all of them to bring down Evil/Fascist Superman. It'd continue the thrown-spaghetti decision-making, but give them excellent data on who they would want to explore in other movies. In Prequels or alt-universe versions, if they're killed, or in their own branches before or after the arc is closed.


    I think DC could go far if they would just step away from the boilerplate superhero film they've been churning out. Take a note from Logan, which was basically a western movie that happened to have mutants in it.
    For example:
    • a heist film, in the POV of a brilliant criminal, being hunted by a DC Superhero. It could be a direct clone of Die Hard, but from Hans Gruber's POV, and replacing Bruce Willis with Batman or Green Arrow.
    • A police procedural in a world with superheroes
    • A Fall from grace story, such as Jason Todd's, that shows a Superhero turning into a villain

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