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  1. - Top - End - #181
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    I would say part of the reason US cities in general seem to require cars to get around is that the majority of them developed to city size during or after the industrial revolution. I mean is factories were built in and around the downtown areas which pushed residential areas for workers farther out. Add in the development of public transit to service the workers and neighborhoods began to be developed in ways that were more grid-like to make transit easier. As we move towards the 1950's public transit starts to become less popular as cars become more common and suburbia comes into being. As that happens neighborhood design becomes less grid-like and more free-form with pointlessly winding streets.

    Contrast with many European cities that were built long before the industrial revolution and public transit and you see the difference it makes.

    Anyway, on topic: Some S. Korean site posted the first 3 minutes of the movie. I saw the clip because an article I read was pointing to it to talk about the CGI on Superman's upper lip. It wasn't good, it wasn't horrendous either. The little bit of Batman in the clip was decent though. I'd like to see more of that. I like Batman best when he's fighting street level criminals/badguys.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by leafman View Post
    Contrast with many European cities that were built long before the industrial revolution and public transit and you see the difference it makes.
    I'm fuzzy on the details, but I think that US highway construction and suburban were at least partly the result of deliberate policy, though the medieval layout of many European cities probably made a difference as well.

    Anyway, on topic: Some S. Korean site posted the first 3 minutes of the movie. I saw the clip because an article I read was pointing to it to talk about the CGI on Superman's upper lip. It wasn't good, it wasn't horrendous either. The little bit of Batman in the clip was decent though. I'd like to see more of that. I like Batman best when he's fighting street level criminals/badguys.
    One thing I will say about this movie- it's quite interesting in how redundant it actually makes Batman feel. His one key advantage is being able to whip out nifty gadgets and vehicles, and Cyborg literally jumps into one of those and makes it perform better than Batman could.
    Give directly to the extreme poor.

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    No offense, but that statement is purely ignorant. Things like urban sprawl and designing cities for cars are directly related to country size. Cities have to be designed this way because everyone has to own a car in order to get anywhere or do anything. Many people in Britain can reasonably walk to the store or to work. The same thing is not feasible in the US.
    Actually, it's more affected by economy and cultural reasons than anything else. Urban planification was a heated debate throughout the history of my country. And having way less density than USA but about similar territory, we always "preferred" a more European-like distribution over "planned cities".

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    It would take me 6 hours to walk to work, and I live on the edge of a reasonably sized city. Public transport exists, but I would have to walk at least an hour to get to one of the stations. We're talking at least 3 hours of transport time to get to work and back if you don't own a car. It's just not practical, so everyone owns one, and cities are designed accordingly.

    This is a very common condescending attitude I've encountered among Europeans, and most of it is simply because most have no idea the simple difference in scale.
    To be fair, nothing is "reasonable" sized in America. My experience when visiting Florida was that we happened to be in a Mall and wanted to go fetch something on Best Buy. According to "google maps" estimated walk time was 30 min. By car, it was 8 min distance. So we asked directions. People told us we could get there by walking 20 min. You know what happened? We traversed the parking lot and got there in 5 minutes. While carrying bags.

    We met similar issues on Manhattan. Sure, the city is packed and you don't really need to go long distances for mundane needs. But it certainly isn't planned for pedestrians. Distances become ludicrously long when you have no shortcuts other than subways. And when blocks are 200 meters long or more, 4 streets distances become a real deal. It's totally different from what we are used to. It's not about "being right". It's like Greywolf said. Reasoning that USA has a lot of cars because the cities are planned in a certain way would be thinking it backwards. Most cities are ridden with cars, despite whatever was planned or not. It's just that USA sides with car culture that isn't shared by other countries. It may be historical/economy/custom reasons, but the point still stands. If USA was as tiny as France, I'm sure they would have found a way to build a real life Coruscant on Earth.
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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    No offense, but that statement is purely ignorant. Things like urban sprawl and designing cities for cars are directly related to country size. Cities have to be designed this way because everyone has to own a car in order to get anywhere or do anything. Many people in Britain can reasonably walk to the store or to work. The same thing is not feasible in the US.
    Its a self-causing problems. Cities are designed to accomodate cars, because cars are necessary to get anywhere, because cities are designed to accomodate cars.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Its a self-causing problems. Cities are designed to accomodate cars, because cars are necessary to get anywhere, because cities are designed to accomodate cars.
    Which is because we have so much land mass. What's the alternative? Huge empty spaces that we don't use for no reason? It's not like Canada where 90% of the country isn't habitable.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2017-12-21 at 04:49 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Which is because we have so much land mass. What's the alternative? Huge empty spaces that we don't use for no reason? It's not like Canada where 90% of the country isn't habitable.
    The bolded is not an argument. Its basically the equivalent of "if I have a gun i might as well use it".

    Large land masses are not an excuse for civic development centered solely around automobile use. And seeing recent environmental and societal developments, they are starting to prove more counterproductive to a better society.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    *reads current thread posts*

    Makes sense. Justice League sucks.
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  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    The bolded is not an argument. Its basically the equivalent of "if I have a gun i might as well use it".

    Large land masses are not an excuse for civic development centered solely around automobile use. And seeing recent environmental and societal developments, they are starting to prove more counterproductive to a better society.
    Except it is literally the reason. No amount of putting your fingers in your ears and singing "lalala I can't hear you" is going to change that. It doesn't matter if you think it's reasonable. It doesn't matter if you think it "excuses" it. It is the reason. Period. End of line. It's a big place. People need cars to get around. We regularly travel between states for business and pleasure. We ship things cross-country every day.

    I'm glad you enjoy the way your country is designed, but we have singular states with a higher population than your entire country, and 10 times the habitable land. What's practical for you is not what's practical for us.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Except it is literally the reason. No amount of putting your fingers in your ears and singing "lalala I can't hear you" is going to change that. It doesn't matter if you think it's reasonable. It doesn't matter if you think it "excuses" it. It is the reason. Period. End of line.
    You do realise that just because you say something over and over, it doesn't make it true, right? And that so far, you have presented nothing other than your belief and some very shaky logic in your favour (oh, and ad hominems, lets not forget those)?

    GW

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    You do realise that just because you say something over and over, it doesn't make it true, right? And that so far, you have presented nothing other than your belief and some very shaky logic in your favour (oh, and ad hominems, lets not forget those)?

    GW
    As opposed to the preponderance of evidence and respect you've supplied I suppose? I've supplied far more facts to back up my assertions than you have (literally nothing). No, "I've read that one unnamed sociologist said this" does not count.


    The US really is 40X larger than the UK. We really do have higher populations in singular states than the entirety of Canada. It would take 50 hours to drive from Seattle to Tampa. You can cross the UK in a similar amount of time on a bicycle. And yes, the vast majority of people who live here travel fairly regularly. I visit family 800 miles away in New Orleans at least twice a year. My best friend drives 170 miles to work every other week. Cars are necessary to life here, and still would be even if we tried to build our cities in a European fashion.

    You're comparing our city structure to that of a country that is barely larger than an individual state. If our entire country was smaller than the state of Michigan (not even in the top 10 biggest states btw) maybe we'd build things a little more compact.

    Obviously the mere existence of the automobile played a role as well. I'm not arguing that. It's central to my point after all. It's just secondary to the fact that even if the automobile didn't exist, our cities would be much more spread out than those you find in Europe due to sheer necessity.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    As opposed to the preponderance of evidence and respect you've supplied I suppose? I've supplied far more facts to back up my assertions than you have (literally nothing). No, "I've read that one unnamed sociologist said this" does not count.


    The US really is 40X larger than the UK. We really do have higher populations in singular states than the entirety of Canada. It would take 50 hours to drive from Seattle to Tampa. You can cross the UK in a similar amount of time on a bicycle. And yes, the vast majority of people who live here travel fairly regularly. I visit family 800 miles away in New Orleans at least twice a year. My best friend drives 170 miles to work every other week. Cars are necessary to life here, and still would be even if we tried to build our cities in a European fashion.

    You're comparing our city structure to that of a country that is barely larger than an individual state. If our entire country was smaller than the state of Michigan (not even in the top 10 biggest states btw) maybe we'd build things a little more compact.

    Obviously the mere existence of the automobile played a role as well. I'm not arguing that. It's central to my point after all. It's just secondary to the fact that even if the automobile didn't exist, our cities would be much more spread out than those you find in Europe due to sheer necessity.
    I would argue that the relationship between city density and available land area is quite simple. Buildings capable of supporting higher population density are more expensive to build on per square meter basis. And once you let the city spread out (because one can build housing cheaper over larger area), it becomes impossible (or at least prohibitively expensive and burdensome) to supply the citizens with functional public transportation, so the planning is based on use of private cars, indirectly making public transportation more tedious to use (because the alternative, use of private car, is faster and more convenient). It is no coincidence that out of the real world cities Hong Kong and Singapore might most resemble Gotham-esque megacities in their outlook.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    We really should just get back to talking about how awesome Justice League was and how we loved it so much.

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Am I the only one who felt I just finished playing Ye Olde Windows Solitaire during that whole evil tendrils thing?

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    We really should just get back to talking about how awesome Justice League was and how we loved it so much.
    Dear god, do you want this thread to die?!

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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    We really should just get back to talking about how awesome Justice League was and how we loved it so much.
    Justice League gave my eyeballs cancer.

    Last time I tried to enjoy a DC film, three people died.
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  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Justice League gave my eyeballs cancer.

    Last time I tried to enjoy a DC film, three people died.
    The last DC film you tried you enjoy was The Dark Knight Rises?
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  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Zmeoaice View Post
    The last DC film you tried you enjoy was The Dark Knight Rises?
    Hah, well played, =)
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  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    The bolded is not an argument. Its basically the equivalent of "if I have a gun i might as well use it".
    This is a really bad false anology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Large land masses are not an excuse for civic development centered solely around automobile use. And seeing recent environmental and societal developments, they are starting to prove more counterproductive to a better society.
    A large land mass allows for land to be cheap to buy and more people can own land. There are a lot of people that don't want to live in the human zoos that are cities. Nor do they want to live right next to a industrial area either. They want to be little away from other people and it's easy to do in a big country with lots of cheap land. But in order for people to get around, they need cars. The massive number of cars in the US is a direct result of how large the country is and the avaliablity of land. Also in some areas the weather makes cars a neccessity. If you get an average of 5 feet of snow a season, walking to work, even if it's just a couple miles away, is not only impractical, it be could a threat to your health or life.
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  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    It would take 50 hours to drive from Seattle to Tampa. You can cross the UK in a similar amount of time on a bicycle.
    Um... Nope.

    Alas for your hyperbole, one of my friends cycled Land's End to John o'Groats - which isn't even covering the entire UK, just mainland England and Scotland - in about two weeks. The record is 9 days, apparantly.
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  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    Um... Nope.

    Alas for your hyperbole, one of my friends cycled Land's End to John o'Groats - which isn't even covering the entire UK, just mainland England and Scotland - in about two weeks. The record is 9 days, apparantly.
    Your friend probably took time to rest and sleep while I was referring to travel time.

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    If you assume they spend 7 days resting and sleeping and only 2 days traveling, sure.

  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by BWR View Post
    If you assume they spend 7 days resting and sleeping and only 2 days traveling, sure.
    https://www.google.com/maps/dir/inve...50.3754565!3e1

    Or ya'know...an easily searchable map from the largest direction resource on the planet. Clycling time is 60 hours. Similar to the time it would take to drive across the US, not including Alaska. Obviously it takes longer than that for a human that has to stop to rest, eat, poop, etc. Let's keep being intentionally obtuse and pedantic about this though in order to drag the conversation out instead of just taking the obvious example for what it is.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2017-12-23 at 02:20 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    Quote Originally Posted by ben-zayb View Post
    Am I the only one who felt I just finished playing Ye Olde Windows Solitaire during that whole evil tendrils thing?
    That's actually a great comparison!!

    I thought that special effect was so ugly and impersonal.
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  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    Um... Nope.

    Alas for your hyperbole, one of my friends cycled Land's End to John o'Groats - which isn't even covering the entire UK, just mainland England and Scotland - in about two weeks. The record is 9 days, apparantly.
    It is important to note that the 9 day record was for running the route. Kinda kills the whole argument.

    The record for doing the same in the US is 46 days and 8 hours by the way.

  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafman View Post
    It is important to note that the 9 day record was for running the route. Kinda kills the whole argument.
    Yup - that was me misreading since the three timings were in one sentence. Cycling is 10 - 14 days.

    Quote Originally Posted by leafman View Post
    The record for doing the same in the US is 46 days and 8 hours by the way.
    I'm not sure which impresses me more, that someone did it, or that they only took ~46 days...
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  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: Justice League film

    I just saw the film. I quite enjoyed it. It was 100x better than Man of Steel. Not as good as Wonder Woman.
    It has a decent balance of pathos and humor. I agree that the film's MVPs are Flash and WW. But the two new guys were well done.
    I do feel a little sorry for Joe Morton. He seems to be type cast as a scientist. Maybe it's just me, because I watch a lot of science fiction, and don't see his other work.
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