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Thread: Let's break Xanathar's!
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2017-11-17, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2016
Let's break Xanathar's!
I'm ready to start compiling the community's list of insane XGTE builds.
I'll start with my premier build:
Ranged Gish!
Fighter 1/Hexblade 5
It combos really well afterwards with Rogue's ability to sneak attack (or College of Whispers *snort*) afterwards since the darkness spell guarantee's it and the damage scaling never slows down.
This combo allows for auto-advantage on all attacks (thanks darkness!) and can crap on bounded accuracy with an additional +3 to hit thanks to archery fighting style and improved pact weapon.
It multi-classes into some of the craziest alternate builds and doesn't mess around.
Best of all it comes online from the get go and only slightly dips behind at level 5 compared to pure classes.
The new sniper:
Gloom Stalker 5/ScoutArcane Trickster X
This will probably be the consumate ranged damage attacker by the time everything is said and done.
It acts as a perfect scout and ranged assassin with expertise in stealth and pass without trace at level 6and expertise in 4 skills by level 8. With wisdom as a primary attribute and a likely expertise in perception you end up filling a very vital niche for going on ahead to gather intel and eliminating high priority targets. Gloom Stalker's ability to circumvent Dark Vision is bonkers. Giving a class greater invisibility at level 3 was a stupid, stupid idea. Did I mention that control flames is a somatic component only spell that puts out flames? Good bye light sources... Wood Elf Gloom Stalker can hide both indoors and outdoors with ease!
DM's take note! Devil's Sight is not Darkvision and never uses the words darkvision anywhere in it's description which will allow you to bypass this abhorrent cheese.
Caster of the Dark Gods
Divine Soul Sorcerer X/Hexblade 1 or 2
You will always start Sorcerer for Con saves but the Hex blade splash level for some bonus spells and medium armor + shields is going to save you. You may not need to get level 2 hexblade for a while but the 1/1 at the beginning is going to be key.
Twinned Healing lets you bring 2 people up with 1 bonus action. Or twin guiding bolt, or twin...SPIRITUAL WEAPON (that's right folks, it only ever targets one creature with it's attacks now it gets to target a second! WOO)Spiritual weapon has the potential to target more than one creature (subsequent rounds) and is not compatible with twinned spell.
Empowered healing will affect Enervate (since you are rolling dice to determine healing), which when coupled with Twinned Spell or Quickened Spell makes for some neat shenanigans.
The other big kickers are heighten spell with bestow curse/geas.
Taking the Dodge Action with Spirit Guardians up and proficiency in Con saves.
Using Subtle Spell with Guidance, Silence (HAH), Geas, Meld into Stone (for proper shenanigans escapes).
I want to figure out how to break College of Whispers but trying to combine it with extra attack somewhere else is proving tough. Closest I can come is a Paladin 6/ Whispers X for double smite fun.Last edited by TheUser; 2017-11-19 at 04:31 AM.
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2017-11-17, 07:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
That Dru and Rng healing spell (is it lvl 2 or 1? can't remember offhand - book not on me) is pretty crazy. I dip into Life cleric and you're healing even more. If you pop it during combat and keep conc just let it keep running after the fight is won and pop, all are healed back (well often will be).
Shadow Sorc seems crazy broken at lvl 6. You can as a bonus action pop a Hound of Ill Omen at range on two badguys near each other (and it's an ability not a spell I think (don't have book on me) meaning you can still cast a spell as your action) - then fireball the other side of them as your action and they have disad to save - or twin hold person and they have disad to save (or cast other nasty things, and their ST is at disad) ... and then the hound bites them and then might knock one prone. That's just crazy sauce for one turn - a Costco sized vat of the stuff. And Hound only costs 3 sorc points but has no other limit - you don't have to wait iirc a short rest even to recast it. I have to check it but there may be no limit as to how many you can have up - save your sorc point pool. Now a dire wolf isn't that good by itself, sure - but the Hound's debuff is - and even one at a time is crazy good.
Hexblade dips are silly good for so many classes it's not funny.
We're going to have entire parties bathed in darkness at all times with devil's sight or the shadow sorc ability - we're going to actually feel sorry for the monsters.
A party that coordinates on these things could be ridiculously powerful in battle. This won't happen where I play (at AL) because trying to get players to work together is often like herding cats, though... maybe....
Am still working on O of Conq and the Ancestor barb one. Am sensing some power there - lots of potential.Last edited by Chugger; 2017-11-17 at 07:47 PM.
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2017-11-17, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
Im currently working on a way to combo/break a Hexblade/Swashbuckler/Shadow Sorc multiclass with the UA Shadar-kai Elf.
I just cant figure out the best breakpoints, or if it would be best to just skip one of the classesI Am A: Neutral Good Half-Orc Fighter/Barbarian (2nd/1st Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength-16
Dexterity-16
Constitution-17
Intelligence-17
Wisdom-16
Charisma-13
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2017-11-17, 08:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
Given Gloom Stalker is all about ambushing anyways, why not go Assassin? The Scout benefits seem pretty marginal until way higher levels, while the Assassin 3 is just so.. So good. Normally it's situational, but given the Gloom Stalker's shtick *is* ambushing..
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2017-11-17, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2017
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
Originally Posted by
[B
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2017-11-17, 09:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2016
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
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2017-11-17, 09:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2017
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
Hmmm fair enough I suppose. Seems like it would take some positioning to get both attacks but if it works cool. Pretty sure my DM would start spreading out more, especially if I upcasted it heh
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2017-11-17, 09:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2016
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
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2017-11-17, 10:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
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- where South is East
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2017-11-17, 10:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
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Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
Simple, Comprehensive Combat Rework [PEACH]
Spoiler: Other TweaksBeast Master Ranger and Elemental Monk
Great Weapon Fighting (also balances Greataxes)
Healing Spirit is one use per round.
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2017-11-17, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2016
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
You left out a part.
"...When you cast the spell, you can make a melee spell attack against a creature within 5 feet of the weapon. On a hit, the target takes force damage equal to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier."
See the way it only targets one creature?
It's a melee spell attack yes, but regardless, the spell only ever targets one creature and doesn't have the range of "Self" in the description. It meets the pre-requisites for twinned spell.
For reference:
TWINNED SPELL
When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and
doesn't have a range of self, you can spend a number of
sorcery points equal to the spell's level to target a second
creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if
the spell is a cantrip).Last edited by TheUser; 2017-11-17 at 10:59 PM.
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2017-11-17, 11:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2017
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2017-11-17, 11:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
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2017-11-17, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
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- Washington State, US
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
If you take samurai to 10th and then take rogue, would you get sneak attack every attack?
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2017-11-17, 11:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2016
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
I mean, you summon a hammer and then you target a creature with a melee spell attack within 5ft of the hammer as a direct result of the spell.
The spell attack is linked directly to the casting of the spell.
The spell attack must be targeted and must be within 5 ft of a focal point.
The only way I could see this being exempt from twinned spell is if you say that the hammer can attack a different target on subsequent rounds and thusly doesn't qualify.
EDIT: ok I see how it's not compatible but not for any of the reasons you've all given.Last edited by TheUser; 2017-11-17 at 11:16 PM.
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2017-11-18, 01:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2017
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
if this is about optimization, the hexblade/divine soul sorcerer doesn't really get better than twinning dragon's breath on yourself and your handy familiar (via magic initiate or tome pact invocation), and using your spiritual weapon in subsequent turns since it's not on concentration
you're a walking fire/acid/frost/etc.. spewer who bashes baddies with a spectral cudgel holding a shield and a fire/acid/frost/etc. spewin cat in your hand
how cool is that?
also you COULD (but you don't have to) delve into the deep darkness that is a coffeelock build with just 1 more warlock level and tome pact, not gonna start THAT thread all over again, but it's a possibilityLast edited by Foff; 2017-11-18 at 01:14 AM.
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2017-11-18, 01:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2017
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2017-11-18, 02:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
So here's one; not a broken build, but two very strong builds that team up to be broken:
Cavalier and Ancestral Guardian, side by side
I won't go into the whole thing here (reddit thread below), but the TLDR is both classes are incredible tanks that just happen to have abilities that perfectly synergize with each other for supertank awersomeness.
Additionally (in a comment thread below the main post), it's pointed out that the Ancestral Guardian, once it picks up its core skills, can dip Moon Druid 2 to become the Cavalier's mount, and then they can add on the ol' Mounted Combatant / Sentinel combo for even more insane brokenness, since it builds perfectly on their existing abilities.
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/com...tral_guardian/
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2017-11-18, 02:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
And another one I've been noodling around with:
Hexblade 1 / Lore Bard X
Hexblade gives a massive survivability boost, and allows attacks with Charisma and expanded crit range when the Lore Bard picks up Tenser's Transformation at 14 and becomes a melee or ranged weapon-using beast.
Pick up Athletics as one of the bard's expertises along the way, and now with Tenser's extra attack on top of Cutting Words and Peerless Skill and Armor of Agathys, he's also one of the best grapplers in the game.
Keep in mind Lore Bard was already one of the two best counterspellers in the game, the best high-level skill monkey and party face in the game. Oh and don't forget to pick up Find Greater Steed at level 10 on the way there, so you can grapple, fly 180 feet straight up on your freakin' pegasus, and drop the enemy for falling damage and auto-prone.
Before L15, this plays pretty much like a normal lore bard build, but with extra survivability from hexblade (med armor, shield, shield spell, armor of agathys). After hitting 15, it's a pretty insane grappler/dpr build.
After Bard 14 or Bard 18, you can take one more level in Warlock if you want a couple invocations (like repelling and agonizing blast). Or take Divine Soul 1 for Guidance, Absorb Elements, 3 other sorcerer or cleric cantrips, 2 other sorcerer or cleric spells, and +2d4 to an attack or save every short rest.Last edited by Zene; 2017-11-18 at 02:38 AM.
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2017-11-18, 02:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
And one more (sorry I can't stop)
Yet another archer build -- Death from the Trees, an update on the old assassin/battlemaster archer build
Wood Elf with Elven Accuracy
Gloomstalker 3 / Battlemaster 11 / Assassin 3 / Kensei 3
-Take the Gloom Stalker levels first (2 attacks in first round, archery style)
-Then 2 in fighter (AC boost, action surge -- now 4 attacks in first round)
-Then Assassin 3 (Now 4 attacks in the first round, at advantage if you beat them in the initiative order, plus 2d6 sneak attack, but more importantly in a surprise round they all crit)
-Then take Battlemaster up to 11 (extra attack, then third attack, big superiority dice, 3 feats including elven accuracy, xbe, sharpshooter -- now you've got 9 attacks in the first round, all at superadvantage if you win initiative, all critting if you have surprise, all at +10 damage, all your sneak attack and battlemaster dice doubled from the crits
-Then take the Kensei levels (now adding 1d4 to each attack, doubled in those crits).
-Attack from max range, after sneaking up with expertise in stealth
Add on an oathbow or ild rune longbow or +3 longbow for massive additional damage... add in a helm of brilliance (if you've got a friend with invisibility to snuff the glow) for even more.
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2017-11-18, 04:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
I am disappointed in that Twinning divine cleric spells doesn't seem to do anything "broken". Could come in handy in a few instances, sure, but it's not crazy - like a shadow sorc.
Agree Spir Weap is probably not twinnable, and even if it were, you can certainly twin dragon's breath, and that would be better. Especially fighting something with high AC - double-especially if you fight something with vulnerability to one of the d.b.'s you can pick.
Zene those are amazing ideas - well done!
Casting dragon's breath on a familiar is hysterical - have seen other posts bringing this up too ... I'm sure most DMs would insist NO - or would freak out and murder your fam asap (owl flyby dragon breath is really funny) - which would mean some of his team is not attacking characters. Gah, is casting db on fam really legal and RAW and maybe even RAI ...? It may be. And that's pretty crazy. D.B. is a very strong spell, especially if the party has a mobile person who isn't doing crazy damage yet or is low on spell slots and the monsters are kinda bunched up. D.B. out of Shadow Sorc darkness is also wicked, especially in that it isn't casting a spell when you use it on the rounds after you've cast it - if I read it correctly (they are using an action to exhale energy, which is not casting a spell) - so you can quicken spells and breath dragon breath on the same turn. Fun stuff.
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2017-11-18, 07:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
Hi!
I don't have Xanathar's so all I know is from what I could read here, but since it seems Druid Circles didn't get much change from UA to official...
Best Grappler: Rogue 1 / Sheperd Druid 2 / Monk X: drop that spirit aura that grant advantage on STR checks for allies and Shove everyone away.
Bad thing is that you lose on Empty Body for that Rogue Expertise, which may be overkill in the first place honestly. So Druid 2 / Monk 18 may be better.
Alternatively, embrace the martial control idea and go Rogue 2 / Druid 5 / Monk X, using either Spike Growth or Plant Growth combined with Grapple/Shove to keep people inside.
Beyond that, Sorcerer / Warlock got a huge spike in efficiency: Warlock now brings decent melee with Hexblade, Sorcerer now gets built-in healing/buff with Divine Soul. Add two levels of Bard if you really want more tools but that's honestly not needed per se: Sorcerer / Warlock now rocks a huge way with Extended metamagic and Cleric buffs without costly Cleric multiclass or high Bard for Magic Secrets. ;)
Also, depending on how the Shadow Hound works now (can it be dispelled? can it be killed? does the disadvantage persist round after round of is it only at spell cast?) a Shadow Sorcerer with 2 levels of Rogue (Cunning Action Hide) and 2 levels of Warlock (Devil's Sight, Repelling Blast) could become extremely potent at single-handedly dealing with bosses up to CR ~11+ creatures (still can't beat tremorsense and truesight ;)).Last edited by Citan; 2017-11-18 at 07:53 AM.
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2017-11-18, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2017
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
OMG, look that combo.
Divine Soul 17/ X 3
1) Divine Soul pick Wish: Duplicating Simulacrum
2) Twin Empowered Dragon's Breath (Familiar and Divine Soul or allies). The Simulacrum duplicate the trick. Yes, It's 4 Empowered Dragon's Breath per round (It's a ****ing high damage).
3) Subtle Silence+ Mage Slayer feat + Sentinel feat can be devasting against spellcasters. Subtle Gear is potent too.
4) If you want a good healing = Twin Empowered Life Transference (Simulacrum's healing), or Simulacrum's Quicken Revify or Quicken Death Ward.
5) Also, Wish: Duplicating Contingency Spell. Revify Spell + Contingency Spell can be really good.
Twin Empowered Life Transcerence + Empowered Healing can heal more than 250 hp.
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2017-11-18, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Washington State, US
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2017-11-18, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
Any Race; although Halfling gets the rerolls, (UA Marilith Cultist) Abjurer Wizard 20 with Prodigy (Arcana) feat
2 Reactions, Automatically identify any 5th level or lower spell
Optional;
- Lucky Feat - Reroll lower
- Hireling Halfling with the Bountiful Luck feat - another version of the above. Also is Marilith Cultist so as to be able to Guidance+Ready Action Assist
- Guidance spell - +1d4 to typical first check in CC; takes Concentration - possibly cast by Hireling Halfling so as not to take your
- Familiar (or Hireling) - Help Action to gain advantage on identify
- Ioun Stone of Mastery - +2 to your Identify roll, to ID any 7th or lower
- Clockwork Amulet - Guarantee single identification roll (take a 10)
Not overly broken, but 2 Reactions lets you do what the Designers didn't want.Last edited by Vaz; 2017-11-18 at 02:13 PM.
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2017-11-18, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
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2017-11-18, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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2017-11-18, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
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2017-11-18, 07:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Let's break Xanathar's!
What I'm calling the Unlimited Power Insomniac Sorlock (starts coming together around pages 3-4
From consensus, Hexblade Tomelock 3/Divine Soul Sorcerer 9/flavor the rest to taste (I prefer Paladin for smites) for now
Take some days off or at night during travel time, come back with nigh infinite spell slots to use to cast well... anything 5th level or below, or convert to SP for metamagic, or smites as a Paladin.Last edited by Mikal; 2017-11-18 at 07:17 PM.
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2017-11-19, 02:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017