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2017-11-17, 11:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Interest? Check.
Clean PM inbox? Check.
Ingredient? Check.
Free time? Eh, we can't have everything.
Awright, chums. Let's do this. LEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOY—!
Welcome to the reborn Iron Chef Optimization Challenge E6 Appetizer Edition! This owes a heavy debt to our myriad hard-working Chairpersons of the main Iron Chef Optimization Challenge, along with a special debt to Amechra, who pioneered and chaired the first three rounds of the E6 Appetizer Edition six freaking years ago (wow, I feel way older than I expected to feel right now). I'm going to be shamelessly borrowing a hell of a lot of the format, but I do ask that everyone nonetheless read the rules, as there may be some elements that you don't expect.
The form of this challenge is to take a particular D&D 3.5 base class (our "secret ingredient," or SI) and turn it into a functional E6 build, which must feature the SI as heavily as possible. (The only hard rule about this is that you must take at least one level in the SI, though judges are encouraged to look favorably on builds that take all or almost all of their levels in said SI.) Your final build submission should consist of your 6 regular levels and your first 10 epic bonus feats, though providing a snapshot at earlier points through the progression is heartily encouraged. Entries are to be PM'd to the Chair (that would be me!), and they will be posted anonymously; our volunteer judges will then grade each build on a 1-5 point scale in four categories: Originality, Power, Elegance, and Use of the Secret Ingredient. The builds with the highest three scores will be awarded medals, with the Honorable Mention award going to the non-medaling build that the Chair likes best (and/or that receives the most votes for HM in this thread). And then we all have cake!*
*Note: You must provide your own cake.
This is basically like the regular Iron Chef, and let's be brutally honest with ourselves here: this isn't a gargantuan community, and we basically all know what we're talking about at this point. Make the builds, send 'em in, post some scores, and have fun. If you've got questions, lemme know. Still, let's lay out a few rules!
Cooking Time: Builds must be submitted via PM to the Chair by 11:59 PM GMT - 7 on Thursday, December 07, 2017 (6:59 AM GMT on Friday, December 08). The reveal shall be on Friday, December 08. Judging is then expected (*cough*) to take no more than two weeks: judges will have until 11:59 PM GMT - 7 on Thursday, December 21st, 2017 to submit judgments.
Kitchen: Almost all first-party 3.5 sources are legal. Dragon Magazine is disallowed, but Dragon Compendium (and its errata) is allowed. Online material from the WotC website is legal except for unupdated 3.0 psionics, which are banned. (If you use online material, please provide a link to the source.) Unearthed Arcana is legal for paragon classes, alternate races, and alternate class features, but not for fractional BAB/saves, item familiars, generic classes, prestigious character classes, gestalt, bloodlines, LA buyoff, or similar rule variants. We will borrow the existing standard for traits and flaws; they are legal, but traits warrant a –0.5 point penalty in Elegance, and flaws warrant a –1 point penalty in Elegance. Leadership is banned, as is any other feat or class feature that gives you something equivalent. (Familiars and improved familiars are fine, Wild Cohort is fine, psicrystals and elemental envoys are fine, animal companions are fine, but Thrallherd is not fine, for example.) Official errata is considered to be in play. Judges are not to penalize for the use of a large number of sources, nor are they to penalize for using an "obscure" source in one's build. Judges may, however, penalize for using a source without listing it, so please provide a list of sources! It is up to the discretion of each judge whether it is inelegant to "cross setting lines" (by using, for example, Forgotten Realms and Eberron material in the same build). Pathfinder is not allowed. Unupdated 3.0 material is allowed, and the general-purpose 3.0-to-3.5 skill updates (Wilderness Lore and Intuit Direction become Survival, Read Lips becomes Sense Motive, etc.) should be used when appropriate. If 3.0 material has been updated to 3.5, use the 3.5 version instead. If you have questions about anything in this paragraph (or hell, in this ruleset), feel free to ask the Chair.
Character Creation: 32 point buy is assumed. For the purposes of this contest, Level Adjustment greater than +0 is banned. (This may be revised at a later point, but I don't feel that the E6 LA rules are conducive to fun in the context of this contest. If you have a major problem with this, I'm happy to discuss that after the first round, but I want to try at least one round without it to see how confining it is.) No more than two entries per chef per contest, please; if you submit two builds and somehow are so overcome with inspiration for a third that you can't help yourself, PM me and tell me which two you care about the most.
Speculation: Please do not post any form of speculation before the reveal. Just don't do it, guys. It's not cool.
E6: Here's how E6 works for the purposes of this contest. Build your character normally for the first six levels. After you reach level 6, you stop gaining levels and start gaining bonus feats every time you would gain 5,000 XP. Since we aren't actually tracking XP, you'll basically list your first ten epic bonus feats in the order that you take them, and we think of them as being kind of like levels. We will not use the LA-equals-reduced-point-buy rules, instead preferring to just ban races with LA (at least for now). We will not use the "capstone feats"; all feats that you take must be normal legal 3.5 feats, not homebrew E6 ones. You may not use the Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook, though if for some reason there are non-Epic feats from the ELH that you qualify for, you may take those. (I don't think there are any, but I'm sure someone will prove me wrong.) It is up to the discretion of each judge whether this is a "hard E6" (magic above 3rd level spells is simply beyond mortal reach, items that have a listed CL above 6th are just plain not available, etc.) or a "soft E6" (if you can somehow get the magic on your character, it's yours, regardless of level), though I honestly don't expect it to come up. Don't go crazy with making assumptions about items and we probably won't have to find out.
Presentation: Here's a table for you to use. List your epic bonus feats (in clear order) after the table. If you find a clever way of formatting that that isn't annoying and that doesn't break anything, have fun; if it's portable, I may steal it for the next round. When sending your build or any disputes to the Chair, clearly include your build's name in the subject of the PM, and please present your build exactly as you want the Chair to copy and paste it into the thread.SpoilerCode for the table:Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities Spoiler[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class[/B][/th]
[th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
[th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
[th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr][/table]
Contest houserules: Nearly the same as the main contest's rules here: all creatures are proficient with natural weapons they have or may acquire, bonus feats that are explicitly granted without meeting prereqs are usable even without those prereqs, and feats that affect which skills are class skills for you and/or how you spend your skill points (Able Learner, Martial Study, Truename Training, Apprentice, etc.) apply immediately at the level at which you take them (even though you normally spend skill points before taking a feat).
Judging guidelines: As with the main contest, we will follow the "One Mistake, One Penalty" guideline. I'm going to directly copy and paste this from the main thread, and hopefully the original author won't mind too much:
SpoilerJudges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.
Non-exhaustive list of examples:
Skills
Allowed:
- Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
- Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
- Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs
Not allowed:
- Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation
Prereqs
Allowed:
- Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
- Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
- Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
- (Trial, may be disallowed later)Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)
Not Allowed:
- "Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
- Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes
Other general things that are no longer allowed:
- Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
- Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.
Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.
Other bits and bobs: If there's something major and relevant I haven't mentioned, assume that the way I handle it will probably be the same as the main contest unless stated otherwise or unless doing so would be an obviously absurd result. If you've got questions, I'll give you answers.
This round's secret ingredient: The KNIGHT, from PHB2! Allez Optimizer!
Here are the builds, for quick and easy reference:
1: Sir Svarak Steelskin [SILVER]
2: Sir Meowx-Aww-Lots [HM]
3: Guardian [GOLD]
4: Sir Markum [BRONZE]
5: Izzik Temple-GuardLast edited by Zaq; 2018-01-19 at 09:25 PM.
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2017-11-18, 01:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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- Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
6 levels and what else? 10 feats for levels 7-16?
I'll take a look and see if i get an idea.
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2017-11-18, 02:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- Texas
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Oh boy.
So just to be clear:
You cook something that feels like a knight either through 6 levels of knight or something else that what, "feels" like a knight, or replicates its abilities through mimicry like junkyard war?I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2017-11-18, 02:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Treat the SI here the same way as the SI in the base contest. You don’t HAVE to take all 6 levels if it’ll help the build to ease off of it, but there’s a good chance that doing so will cost you in UoSI. The only reason I mentioned a rule about requiring levels in the SI was because some jokester in the Monk round submitted a build with no Monk levels and ended up with an awkward disqualification.
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2017-11-18, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
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- Arcadia
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Definitely gonna try and get a build in.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2017-11-18, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
I'll try to get an entry in, but if I don't, should be able to judge.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2017-11-18, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Fortunately for me, I recently read the Knight Handbook and really liked a character concept that was touched on in it.
Since this is an E6 contest, it'll likely be much easier for me to motivate myself into actually writing up a proper statblock for my character, so that's nice.
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2017-11-18, 10:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
First build's in already! That's half the fun of the E6 Appetizer Edition, though—it's usually much easier to put together 6 levels and a handful of feats than 20 levels, so there's a much lower barrier to entry. (You're significantly less likely to need to balance atop a Jenga-tower of prereqs, for example.) I foresee good things coming out of this.
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2017-11-18, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
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- Colorado, USA
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
i will just observe this round, and vote on HM :)
Originally Posted by Peelee
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2017-11-26, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Right now we don't have enough builds submitted to run a proper contest. I won't start panicking until we get closer to the wire, but to be honest, I was expecting more to come in over the weekend (especially since this is a long weekend for many people in the United States). Everyone just working down to the buzzer this time?
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2017-11-26, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
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- Colorado, USA
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
all of these comps seem to be in purgatory.
I don't think it's just a holidays issue, although that could be a factor :/
assuming you have at least 3 entries, why not just publish them, it might take awhile for this and JYW to build up some steam like IC and VC
Originally Posted by Peelee
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2017-11-26, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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2017-11-26, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Considering writing up a build --
Question: What is wealth by level? Assuming a 16th level wealth by level seems insane, but a 6th level wealth by level is fairly small for someone of such renown that they are 10 "levels" past the level cap.My Homebrew:
WIP
The Fortunar Base Class: A Fortuneteller wielding a minor Deck of Many Things. Mid T3.
Completed Classes
The Grandmaster : A master of animated stattuettes and tactical magic. High tier 3.
The Hidden Word: An infiltrator with a wide range of abilities that works best in small teams. Tier 2-3
Web-Spinner: A martial class based around using webs. Mid T3.
The True Warrior: A swift mundane martial combat class that can dodge and slice their way to victory. Low Tier 3.
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2017-11-26, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Just like in the main contest, how to handle items is up to the discretion of each judge. Historically, the safest bet is to minimize the build's reliance on magic gear (unless you can craft/create it yourself) and only list magic gear as sort of a sidebar thing (if at all), but if you feel like you can show off the build better by displaying a full load of items, you're welcome to take that risk. I'm not going to tell the judges how to treat that.
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2017-11-30, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
We still don’t have enough builds. I’ve decided to extend the deadline by a week to compensate.
What’s going on, folks? Not interested in the contest? Not interested in the ingredient? Something else?In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2017-11-30, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
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- Arcadia
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2017-11-30, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
I've got too much other stuff going on (DMing prep work, work stuff, personal commitments) to get an entry into any of the open comps at the moments, but I'm certainly happy to put my hand up as a judge.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2017-12-02, 09:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
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- Colorado, USA
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
i just want to see how this works (by seeing other folks submissions) before i attempt to tackle one myself.
never messed w/ any of these types of things in games before
Originally Posted by Peelee
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2017-12-04, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
I'm working up a build. Quick question, does E6 modify the normal feat progression for levels 1-6? I'm away from the E6 materials at the moment and am going to need this info in order to plan my feats.
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2017-12-04, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Nope, levels 1-6 are handled basically normally. LA races are handled differently, but since I’ve chosen to ban races above LA 0 for this competition, that shouldn’t come up.
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2017-12-04, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
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2017-12-05, 07:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
So I've submitted something. It's new! It's inspired! It's really dumb! But it's something.
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2017-12-07, 08:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
So, like, I've got two builds submitted right now. I'm hoping that I'll get a flurry of last-minute entries that will make the issue moot, but if tomorrow dawns and I've still only got two submissions, would everyone prefer that I post them and have a teeny little two-entry round, or would everyone prefer that I hang onto them until we get at least one more entrant?
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2017-12-07, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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- Necro-equestrian Pugilism
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
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2017-12-07, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
The whole point of this is to have fun. If such an entry is promised, I believe that we'll have more fun by waiting for your last-minute entry than by being super strict about calling "PENCILS DOWN" at the buzzer. This might be different if we had entrant crawling out of the woodwork (and also routinely submitting builds a full day or more late), but I'm totally willing to be chill when considering our actual situation on the ground.
That said, thank you for making it clear to me that I need to separate the "cooking time" and "judging time" lines in the main post. I can totally see how it's easy to make that mistake.Last edited by Zaq; 2017-12-07 at 09:19 PM.
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2017-12-07, 11:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Unfortunately, I will NOT be able to submit a valid build, since I recently realized that the combo that the build is built around doesn't work properly.
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2017-12-07, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2014
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
I'm totally going to try to squeeze one in before Deadline!
Last edited by daremetoidareyo; 2017-12-08 at 11:47 AM.
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2017-12-08, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Alright, entry is in. Thanks for waiting!
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2017-12-08, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Alright boys and girls, pencils down for real this time. Nothing like a ticking clock to motivate you, huh? Here comes the reveal!
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2017-12-08, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (IV)
Do one thing, and do it well. Really well.
Originally Posted by Sir Svarak Steelskin, the Invincible LawLast edited by Zaq; 2017-12-08 at 08:40 PM.