RWBY IX: Fractured Fairy Tales

[Reddish Mage]

Yang said it herself in the episode. Raven wasn’t always like this. She used to be scared but very principled. We already heard from Ozpin that Raven signed up to be his magical spy freely knowing it was very dangerous.

Raven changed when she ran away, and clearly went on a downward spiral after rejoining the bandits.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Spoiler: V5C14

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I feel like losing Hazel here would be fine because I don't really see anything interesting happening from him staying close. Next season we'll have Tirion back, sadly. We've had implications of Adam joining them more directly to serve as an antagonizer as well, and while they're very much not as important to the hierarchy Emerald and Mercury are villains we know better and are more compelling to keep around as a result. Hazel is really just some big dude who sticks rocks in his arms, the only advantage he has is that he's somewhat of a good guy for the villains. A pet "see we're not all detestable monsters". So it would make some sense to have him be a sacrifice so we can get some new heavy hitters we care more about.

To clarify my point on the off chance you're not being sarcastic because I'm not 100% the best at reading people, Ruby got her **** kicked in by Roman when he died. So while she did get to fight him, she lost. And she's never gotten to get back at Cinder. If Cinder is dead dead (and I mean the character, not her body animated by grimm evil or whatever) then that's two fights on the level of a rival fight our main character doesn't get. It's always gonna bug me, that the titular character and lead of the show won't ever get to PROVE that she's better than her main foes.

I'd of liked to see some blood on him then, to show that the show actually does remember humans are full of that. You can't impale someone through the chest in the same fight someone got impaled through the stomach without keeping both stabbings consistent, that just doesn't flow.

Spoiler: Volume 5 totality

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I'll admit my coming down rather positive on this season compared to others is probably just due to it doing individual moments I really liked. You're not wrong, this series basically does nothing, half of it is dedicated to a wet fart of an actual confrontation where nothing actually happens. The rest is spent meandering around learning some basic stuff we should of learned in season 1. It's not a good season on the whole, but it also succeeds in doing what the other seasons have had a lot of trouble doing/never even bothered to try doing. It made me start to care a bit about the characters.

Also, ignoring the "birds are eeevil" part, Raven's contradictionary behavior is actually really cool because it shows that Leo was right. She's just a coward. The series ends with her accepting that, and I think she's going to try and redeem herself. Which is going to be difficult given this episode also shows us that Raven literally murdered a child because she's a bad teacher. Which is HILARIOUS and also awful, and I'm slotting it away in my brain close to (but not adjacent to) some of the worst hilarious garbage other series have shown me.

Spoiler: Volume 5 Ch 14

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The counter point to your Hazel argument being that they've already put work into developing Hazel and making people care about/hate him. Why waste it just to start over with a brand new villain? Keep in mind, I think we're going to see two more members of Salem's inner council being introduced or two characters joining it.

Partially sarcasm, partially joking about how we've argued in the past about Roman's status as a villain, his importance to Ruby,
and if he was a main villain or just a lackey. Though its worth pointing out that Roman died in that fight and Ruby didn't, so barring ghost-Roman showing up Ruby won that fight. ...I also fondly remember debates about how much Ruby might have had to do with that death as well.

That said, I think its fair to say at this point that Ruby (and RWBY itself come to think of it) isn't the type to have a rival. This isn't the kind of show were almost everyone likes fighting for the sake of fighting or proving themselves against a strong opponent.
Ruby has shown absolutely no interest in who defeats the bad guys so long as they are defeated. Which is refreshing considering at least one person, Cinder (and maybe Roman), has held a downright murderous grudge towards her and that's normally enough to set-up a rival situation in most anime.

Yeah, would have been nice to see that too. But I imagine they want to keep using the same model for every scene he's in to save time/money. Plus showing less blood to keep things relatively kid friendly I imagine. Still agree that the hole remaining would have been nice at least.

Spoiler: Volume 5

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Like I said, this volume has some real good scenes but also some really questionable ones. The highs are good but the lows are bad and as much as I like some of this volume an awful lot, the ones I don't or just find kind of dull just outweigh them a bit. Its not the worst volume, I just wish it had been more consistent in the obvious quality it showed.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I found Raven's character surprising and fun...but the first scenes she had with Yang and Weiss weren't the best. Especially since I don't think Leo had the right read on her..yeah, its easy to say she's a coward because she's afraid of Salem and wants to avoid confronting her...but every other instance? Raven confronts it head on like it ain't no thing.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: Volume 5 Ch 14

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The counter point to your Hazel argument being that they've already put work into developing Hazel and making people care about/hate him. Why waste it just to start over with a brand new villain? Keep in mind, I think we're going to see two more members of Salem's inner council being introduced or two characters joining it.

Partially sarcasm, partially joking about how we've argued in the past about Roman's status as a villain, his importance to Ruby,
and if he was a main villain or just a lackey. Though its worth pointing out that Roman died in that fight and Ruby didn't, so barring ghost-Roman showing up Ruby won that fight. ...I also fondly remember debates about how much Ruby might have had to do with that death as well.

That said, I think its fair to say at this point that Ruby (and RWBY itself come to think of it) isn't the type to have a rival. This isn't the kind of show were almost everyone likes fighting for the sake of fighting or proving themselves against a strong opponent.
Ruby has shown absolutely no interest in who defeats the bad guys so long as they are defeated. Which is refreshing considering at least one person, Cinder (and maybe Roman), has held a downright murderous grudge towards her and that's normally enough to set-up a rival situation in most anime.

Yeah, would have been nice to see that too. But I imagine they want to keep using the same model for every scene he's in to save time/money. Plus showing less blood to keep things relatively kid friendly I imagine. Still agree that the hole remaining would have been nice at least.

Spoiler: Volume 5

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Like I said, this volume has some real good scenes but also some really questionable ones. The highs are good but the lows are bad and as much as I like some of this volume an awful lot, the ones I don't or just find kind of dull just outweigh them a bit. Its not the worst volume, I just wish it had been more consistent in the obvious quality it showed.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I found Raven's character surprising and fun...but the first scenes she had with Yang and Weiss weren't the best. Especially since I don't think Leo had the right read on her..yeah, its easy to say she's a coward because she's afraid of Salem and wants to avoid confronting her...but every other instance? Raven confronts it head on like it ain't no thing.

Spoiler: V5C14

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Ruby might not care, but WE do. We never got to see Ruby beat up Roman, we'll probably never get to see Ruby beat up Cinder. That's two people our main character won't get to beat to show how far she's grown since the beginning. It's a structural thing, and one that bothers me. We haven't seen any sign that Ruby's actually gotten any better, we have no reference point to help show she's clearly grown stronger.

Keeping the hole remaining at least would be nice. Aura can't heal CLOTHES. And "kid friendly" doesn't really mesh well with "I killed an innocent because she couldn't learn proper" thing. I know there's a difference between "showing a violence" and "implying a violence" but also Vernal just died pretty graphically as well. You can't have your cake and eat it to, in this situation. I feel like there should of been some blood.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: V5C14

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Ruby might not care, but WE do. We never got to see Ruby beat up Roman, we'll probably never get to see Ruby beat up Cinder. That's two people our main character won't get to beat to show how far she's grown since the beginning. It's a structural thing, and one that bothers me. We haven't seen any sign that Ruby's actually gotten any better, we have no reference point to help show she's clearly grown stronger.

Spoiler: v5c14

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We saw her headbutt Mercury. That counts, right?

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: v5c14

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We saw her headbutt Mercury. That counts, right?

Spoiler: V5C14

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I mean sarcasm aside not really because we don't even SEE that fight. Not really. Though that IS a point, Mercury has beaten Ruby on screen so he counts for what I'm talking about as well.

[Reddish Mage]

Saying Ruby hasn't shown she's improved is inaccurate. Her preview in Volume 4 shows she van now take on an entire town full of massive, bone and skull showing Grimm (yes the previews are canon and considered part of the series). She put up a good fight against Tyrian and did her share against the Nuckalavee.

The fight against Mercury also counts, and not because he is her rival or even that she soundly defeats him. Ruby had previously been obviously outmatched and out of her depth against Mercury. Now, even without her weapon, she has shown she can stand against him with the swagger of the superior fighter.

We can argue about the merits of Ruby not getting to put the beat-down on "main" villains that have gone down. The fact that you call them her "rivals" suggests you have a specific, shounen anime model in mind. That model is clearly misplaced her as Ruby is not the shounen superhero munchkin protagonist of a fighting anime.

[Rater202]

Also... Ruby in early volumes had to fire a shot from Cresent Rose to decapitate bigger Grimm.

Now she can do it with just her own strength.

[LaZodiac]

Incidently now that RWBY is done for the yearish. I have a suggestion for all y'all.

The series DID get dubbed into Japan. Go find and watch the subs. I feel like it'd be at least interesting to see how some of this stuff was translated/localized, and if I knew Japanese I'd do my part of getting that information out there in a more read fashion.

[Reddish Mage]

Incidently now that RWBY is done for the yearish. I have a suggestion for all y'all.

The series DID get dubbed into Japan. Go find and watch the subs. I feel like it'd be at least interesting to see how some of this stuff was translated/localized, and if I knew Japanese I'd do my part of getting that information out there in a more read fashion.

Er, if you watch the Japanese dub with english subtitles, you're going to miss most of the nuance of how they localized the show. The english subtitles may just be lifted from the English transcript.

Also, if you get the feeling that somehow RWBY is more "authentic" in Japanese, something in your head is very very confused.

Now if you are fluent in Japanese and really understand the nuance, the fact that Pyrrha's apologies is always "gomen nasai" and not something more casual is probably pretty telling.

Also, I think everyone knows what it means that various characters are given the different suffixes to their name "san sama kun or chan."

There will be a few different idioms as I would guess that the "bee's knees" doesn't translate so well. I wonder whether "I drink milk" localizes either.

[Rater202]

There will be a few different idioms as I would guess that the "bee's knees" doesn't translate so well. I wonder whether "I drink milk" localizes either.

Ruby's declaration that she drinks milk was a response to her maturity being questioned.

Milk is notable for being something that is meant to be fed to infants.

The joke is that it's so much of a non-sequitur that it actually kind of refutes the point that she's trying to make.

Alternatively, she's trying to claim that the nutrients in the milk are helping her mature physically, in which case she's missing the point.

Or it could be both.

I don't think it takes much effort to translate that.

Also, checking the scene... My God the animation used to be bad.

[LaZodiac]

Er, if you watch the Japanese dub with english subtitles, you're going to miss most of the nuance of how they localized the show. The english subtitles may just be lifted from the English transcript.

Also, if you get the feeling that somehow RWBY is more "authentic" in Japanese, something in your head is very very confused.

Now if you are fluent in Japanese and really understand the nuance, the fact that Pyrrha's apologies is always "gomen nasai" and not something more casual is probably pretty telling.

Also, I think everyone knows what it means that various characters are given the different suffixes to their name "san sama kun or chan."

There will be a few different idioms as I would guess that the "bee's knees" doesn't translate so well. I wonder whether "I drink milk" localizes either.

It was just a suggestion to fill the RWBY shaped void in your heart man, jeez

Also, checking the scene... My God the animation used to be bad.

Finally, we see things my way. This is mostly a joke and not meant to be taken seriously.

[Rater202]

Finally, we see things my way. This is mostly a joke and not meant to be taken seriously.

No, seriously, I binged the first four volumes in a couple days just before the season started.

This should be fresh in my mind.

I should not have been so surprised.

[Reddish Mage]

It was just a suggestion to fill the RWBY shaped void in your heart man, jeez

Don't you realize arguing with you is what gets me through the dry periods?

[Callos_DeTerran]

Finally, we see things my way. This is mostly a joke and not meant to be taken seriously.

Yeah..it was pretty rough outside of fights.

[Ramza00]

Red Like Roses Part 1+2 Complete just played in my youtube while I was working, and ...+sound effect ... the series used to be so much better.

[LaZodiac]

Don't you realize arguing with you is what gets me through the dry periods?

Right right, my mistake. I'll be sure to dust of ye old discussion skills. Once I'm done my vacation I will have things to say and Content to disperse to the internets.

Anybody remember the ****ing truck debate?

[Lethologica]

Right right, my mistake. I'll be sure to dust of ye old discussion skills. Once I'm done my vacation I will have things to say and Content to disperse to the internets.

Anybody remember the ****ing truck debate?

My lawyers inform me that I do not remember the truck debate.

[Rater202]

...Do I want to know about the truck debate?

[LaZodiac]

...Do I want to know about the truck debate?

Penny stopping the truck and making everyone all shocked and gasp at it when Hunters have been shown to universally be far far far more impressive than stopping a moving vehicle.

A conversation that got so heated and bad it SPLIT THE THREAD IN TWAIN.

[Reddish Mage]

Penny stopping the truck and making everyone all shocked and gasp at it when Hunters have been shown to universally be far far far more impressive than stopping a moving vehicle.

A conversation that got so heated and bad it SPLIT THE THREAD IN TWAIN.

Because 1) Hunters don’t normally do these feats right in the middle of the crowded city. 2) According to Real Physics^TM, Penny instantly stopping a truck that is moving at speed is several orders of magnitude a greater feat of strength than anything we’ve seen.

We’ve also had discussions surrounding whether Penny was really anymore impressive when she wiped out the White Fang back at the end of the first volume.

I think this also ties to the Maiden discussion. Although not quite as “Penny is obviously a robot with superior moves” the Maidens, both Amber and Raven, really do show another level of combat.

[Rater202]

A thought occurs to me... Penny's weapon is a bunch of swords that literally come out of a hatch on her back and are connected to her via wires.

Shouldn't the people watching the Tournament have known that she was a robot before Illusion girl murdered her using Pyrra as the her weapon?

[khadgar567]

as far as common folk can think that's basicly penny's semblance like glynda goodwitch. they ( including me ) think that she uses telekinesis to maneuver the gun blade drones for her offence. plus we have more absurd thinks like wedding bag turning in to mini-gun or simple old school camera capable to pull green lantern sh*t so its not that shocking that penny stopped runaway truck with both hands

[LaZodiac]

Because 1) Hunters don’t normally do these feats right in the middle of the crowded city. 2) According to Real Physics^TM, Penny instantly stopping a truck that is moving at speed is several orders of magnitude a greater feat of strength than anything we’ve seen.

We’ve also had discussions surrounding whether Penny was really anymore impressive when she wiped out the White Fang back at the end of the first volume.

I think this also ties to the Maiden discussion. Although not quite as “Penny is obviously a robot with superior moves” the Maidens, both Amber and Raven, really do show another level of combat.

1 is a irrelevant point since in a world where there's badass hunter people who can kill giant monsters, them not doing it in public does not mean if I see it my immediate response is "wow what a weird event that happened this person must be weird lets galk at them" and would instead be "wow that's an impressive hunter".

I'll give you that Raven and Cinder's fight does show us some of what makes the Maiden's more impressive, but only like the back half of that fight, around the part where they use their super power auras to make gigantic swords. The rest of the fight seems about standard for what hunters are capable of.

[Anyr]

I'll give you that Raven and Cinder's fight does show us some of what makes the Maiden's more impressive, but only like the back half of that fight, around the part where they use their super power auras to make gigantic swords. The rest of the fight seems about standard for what hunters are capable of.

It also makes the previous Maiden fight all the more puzzling. Where was Amber's giant sword? Where was her incredible speed? She just hovered in place, and threw a few ranged attacks. If she'd used even half the power that Cinder does later, Cinder wouldn't have been able to steal that power in the first place.

[LaZodiac]

It also makes the previous Maiden fight all the more puzzling. Where was Amber's giant sword? Where was her incredible speed? She just hovered in place, and threw a few ranged attacks. If she'd used even half the power that Cinder does later, Cinder wouldn't have been able to steal that power in the first place.

The immediately obvious answer is "she's not trained enough" but why would the best hunting school in the country not have their super powered god maiden trained enough to take down some randos on the street. It makes that the Spring Maiden couldn't, she's told as being weak willed and afraid of everything. We received nothing like that justification for Amber, and given the only guard she has is Qrowe we can assume she's a strong fighter.

[Lethologica]

I mean, the real reason for the power creep between what Amber is capable of and what Cinder is capable of is the growth of the animators' abilities. There's only so much that could have been done about that. As far as reasons for in-world inconsistencies go, "We now have the ability to animate them being as badass as they should have been all along" is a pretty good one.

Because [...] 2) According to Real Physics^TM, Penny instantly stopping a truck that is moving at speed is several orders of magnitude a greater feat of strength than anything we’ve seen.

That's neither true nor the best argument from physics for Penny's feat being anomalous. Yang stopping a building-sized Paladin's punch with one hand far more 'instantly' was, speaking conservatively, approximately as great a feat of strength. The best argument for Penny's feat being physically anomalous was that the way she sank into the ground when bracing against a mostly-horizontal collision implied that she was very heavy--but then, Yang also doesn't exactly move like a 150-lb human punched by a building-sized robot, regardless of strength; RWBY is not above adding cartoon stickum to its characters' feet.

[jindra34]

Something I'm wondering about, in the whole Maidenbowl fight, Did anyone else get the feeling on rewatching that Raven was letting Cinder control the direction and motion of the fight? For some strange reason? It feels like after the initial sword exchange till they were out of aura every move made by Raven was just a slightly better version of a move made by Cinder. Because I SERIOUSLY doubt she didn't have a better answer to slowly build giant sword, than also make giant sword. Sure its COOLER that way but any in universe reasons?

[Callos_DeTerran]

It also makes the previous Maiden fight all the more puzzling. Where was Amber's giant sword? Where was her incredible speed? She just hovered in place, and threw a few ranged attacks. If she'd used even half the power that Cinder does later, Cinder wouldn't have been able to steal that power in the first place.

Aside from the animator remark which is the real answer, its because she isn't a well trained Maude. Even then, half-baked as she was, she still knocks out Mercury and almost kills Emerald...just not in a particularly flashy manner.

...I did really dig that leaf trick though, that was cool.

A thought occurs to me... Penny's weapon is a bunch of swords that literally come out of a hatch on her back and are connected to her via wires.

Shouldn't the people watching the Tournament have known that she was a robot before Illusion girl murdered her using Pyrra as the her weapon?

Partially cause in the first volume Penny wears a 'backpack' that the swords come out of. Which, if you didn't actually talk to Penny, would be a pretty good cover for a really eccentric weapon. Fancy, but no more so than Velvet's, Pyrrha's semblance in action, or Leo's buckler. So yeah, I don't remember if she continues to wear the backpack in Volume 3, but there was a token effort to explain things like that.

[Excession]

Partially cause in the first volume Penny wears a 'backpack' that the swords come out of. Which, if you didn't actually talk to Penny, would be a pretty good cover for a really eccentric weapon. Fancy, but no more so than Velvet's, Pyrrha's semblance in action, or Leo's buckler. So yeah, I don't remember if she continues to wear the backpack in Volume 3, but there was a token effort to explain things like that.

It's there in Volume 3 as well, just inconspicuous. Also when Velvet copied the weapon she got the backpack as well, more obviously because it was glowing.

[Reddish Mage]

It also makes the previous Maiden fight all the more puzzling. Where was Amber's giant sword? Where was her incredible speed? She just hovered in place, and threw a few ranged attacks. If she'd used even half the power that Cinder does later, Cinder wouldn't have been able to steal that power in the first place.

I have previously, made an in-depth analysis of Ambers actions in that fight. I would do so again but its getting tedious and no one has ever indicated they countered or even read it point for point.

Its quite clear from the video, Amber is being faced with three top opponents and she is flinging the elements all around her, lightning, wind, leaves into deadly icicles, and attacking her opponents at once although they have her surrounded. This was a clear step up, and a different degree of magic.

If the subtle distinction doesn’t impress you when put in comparison to dust-magic perhaps that is merely an anime conceit where differences are made incrediably obvious.

That's neither true nor the best argument from physics for Penny's feat being anomalous. Yang stopping a building-sized Paladin's punch with one hand far more 'instantly' was, speaking conservatively, approximately as great a feat of strength. The best argument for Penny's feat being physically anomalous was that the way she sank into the ground when bracing against a mostly-horizontal collision implied that she was very heavy--but then, Yang also doesn't exactly move like a 150-lb human punched by a building-sized robot, regardless of strength; RWBY is not above adding cartoon stickum to its characters' feet.

This just isn’t how physics works. Yang punching a giant robot hand is impressive, but not as impressive as punching a TRUCK. A truck has considerably more mass and strikes with considerably more force. By considerable, I mean several orders of magnitude greater. Its obvious, more weight in motion at approximately equals more force. A giant robot arm is heavy but not as anywhere near as heavy as a truck.

I also think Yang’s feat was anomalous itself, we never saw anything like that before and have yet to see such a feat repeated.

Moreover, Yang’s feat is immaterial, as we didn’t see it yet as of V2E3 when Penny stopped the truck. We didn’t see any feats of strength near what Penny was doing. The greatest feat of strength we saw was Ruby decapitating the Giant Nevermore, and she required significant assistance to accomplish that.