RWBY IX: Fractured Fairy Tales

[Callos_DeTerran]

I mean Roman, Neo, Junior, Adam, there's probably two other villains they could slot in those spots that won't be making it to the party. That's my guess.

It may also just be because it makes the table look better.

Neo, maybe, but from the conversations and such its pretty clear that it was Cinder that hired Roman (who hired Junior and knew nothing about what was going on) and Adam was the liaison between Salem's inner circle and the White Fang.

In other words, if those other two chairs are currently occupied by people, we have a good guess for one of them, that being Neo but the other would still be a mystery. Maybe Adam fills it now that he's essentially dismantled the White Fang himself after the failed attack on Haven.

Neo might actually make sense in the regards she both knew and recognized Raven on sight but just hired muscle most likely wouldn't recognize a bandit leader from Anima well enough to flee on sight from her. But one of Ozpin's spies with a Semblance that can bring instant reinforcements (though we now know Raven can't do that aside from Qrow)? That's something to get out of dodge for.

[Ramza00]

Talks about Vol 4 Chapter 1 stuff and how that moment has interplay both prior and after it with the greater RWBY story.

I mean Roman, Neo, Junior, Adam, there's probably two other villains they could slot in those spots that won't be making it to the party. That's my guess.

It may also just be because it makes the table look better.

It's also possible the chairs used to be occupied. This battle has been going on for a while.

The chairs can have many origins, including looking pretty (I agree 6 is more pretty than 4.)

I am merely pointing out the incongruities that stuck with me. There are many incongruities in RWBY (*emulates Dracula's voice* perhaps that same can be said of all fictions.)



So, the reason why this specific incongruities stuck with me is the "Table of Doom" is kind of a trope ^{(I am not going to see if there is a tv trope wiki page)}.

You gather all the villains at one location to introduce the readers / viewers to the villains as both a group and individuals inside a group. Often these meet ups include a table / sitting for subtext reasons. Aka the subtext is that it lowers the tension, shows the villains can work together, the shared table also works as a unifying force suggesting the villains are working towards a common goal, and so on. There is often conflict in these Table of Doom scenes, but rarely is someone going to kill all the other villians during said Table of Doom scenes, no instead these scenes instead serve a purpose as an introduction to a group of villians.



What I am saying here the trope (perhaps even an archetype) of seeing the table of doom tells me that Vol 4 Episode 1 literally the first few minutes of this new Vol was trying to introduce useful information to the viewers. This first few minutes introduced us 4 new characters / villains and literally told us by subtext these people are important and pay attention to them in the future.

Now in the same scene it had two empty chairs. Why are there two empty chairs? Who knows, but it was very much like a JJ Abrams mystery box to me.

Shrug ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Neo might actually make sense in the regards she both knew and recognized Raven on sight but just hired muscle most likely wouldn't recognize a bandit leader from Anima well enough to flee on sight from her.

Neo could occupy the chair and it make kind of a half sense Also Neo as mute but very effective agent of Salem could be an interesting character. It is much like the dragon archetype where you can have an "agent" of the villain whose entire job is merely to be menacing like some form of horror monster or bond villain who is an agent to the big bad. Neo being an assassin, cleaner, and also pick up the mess character does not need to speak and in fact she can be more menacing for she does not speak and is merely just effective and practically untouchable.

Spoiler

Show

I like it, it is a way of making Neo an interesting character in her own right instead of a one off character. I like Neo but having her no voice makes it hard to tell a story with her for it limits many of the traditional story telling options of crafting an identity, motive, drives, desires, and so on...and with RT limited story telling expertise having her as a mute obstacle that is meanacing but constantly returning...well that can work. Interesting

-----

But on your other point

But one of Ozpin's spies with a Semblance that can bring instant reinforcements (though we now know Raven can't do that aside from Qrow)? That's something to get out of dodge for.

Actually Raven can bring other people with her when she calls reinforcements. She can create "portals" tied to people who are beacons, but once the portal is created any one can enter or exit it.

For example in the Vol 5 climax fight. Raven sneaks into the big room as a bird, then summons a portal, Cinder is the first to step through the portal, then Vernal (the person the portal is attached to / has a bond / beacon with), followed by Mercury and Emerald. Aka 3 extra reinforcements were summoned even though Raven only has bond with one of the 4 people.

Of course when you are enemies with someone you may know some aspects of their abilities but not the full power set. So lets say Neo knew Raven is a teleporter but also can call reinforcements with her portals, well Neo may not know the particulars with how her abilities work.

[jindra34]

Spoiler: Volume6:Chapter3

Show

Well that was a thing. And ye gods these people need to get better at dealling with the history of this world. Also pretty much confirms that Ozpin is deep in a sunk cost fallacy. He's lead so many people to their deaths, been betrayed so many times, he can't bring himself to admit he was wrong, and that their might be another way. Pretty story though. Also Jinn seems to be a very benevolent, if partial/goal oriented genie. She gave way more information than Ruby asked for. Or maybe way less.

Also, Oz is an IDIOT if he never asked, 'What needs to change about the world/humanity so that we can pass the brother's judgement'.

[Ramza00]

Spoiler: Volume6:Chapter3

Show

Also, Oz is an IDIOT if he never asked, 'What needs to change about the world/humanity so that we can pass the brother's judgement'.

Good Point Jindra34.

Spoiler: Vol 6 Chapter 3

Show

Did Oz ask this question? Honestly this is one of the most important questions in Ozma / Ozpin / Oscar's story.

'What needs to change about the world/humanity so that we can pass the brother's judgement'.

I can make the case either way. For Oz is an idiot, but he also may have asked such a question for he is not always an idiot. He is an idiot ^{this is obvious now in Vol 6} some of the time, yet in different times and spaces he is less of an idiot.

Oz as a character in a story, is a mess much like how Prequel Yoda and OT Yoda have completely different personalities for they use different information gathering styles. There are lots of similarities in Prequel Yoda and OT Yoda but they literally think differently with how they gather information, what they know, and what they are willing to take "risks" on.

------



The question you asked Jindra34.

I have no clue if Oz asked this question for he is a literal mess, a walking idiosyncratic pile of contradictions where in one situation he would do X but in another situation he would do Y not because it makes more sense to do X or Y with no information, but instead the opposite for he already has an established knowledge base in this context and he doesn't realize how that existing knowledge base literally poisons how he asks the question.

For Oz to be more effective he literally in a past life needed to spend some time "hermitizing" and learning some epistemology (greek for epistēmē, meaning 'knowledge', and λόγος, logos, meaning 'logical discourse', aka the philosophy of figuring out what you know and the limitations of what you know.)

But Oz has not done this in a previous life, for he did not do that for he felt the whole entire world was on his shoulders, like he was a titan Atlas (this is where we get the concept of Atlas personality). Sure he created a school and followers but the followers were merely tools to him and to aid his goal of supporting and preserving the world.

Ruby. I've made more mistakes than any man, woman, and child on this planet. But at this moment I would not consider your appointment to leader to be one of them. Do you?

I once told you I made more mistakes than any man, woman or child on this planet. I wasn't exaggerating. I'm... cursed. For thousands of years I have walked the surface of Remnant; living, dying, and reincarnating in the body of a like-minded soul. The Professor Ozpin you all met was not my first form, and it clearly wasn't my last. It's... an extraordinarily strenuous process, on everyone involved.

But the problem with this mindset is he never created a self sustaining system where Oz can take some time off and think about how to solve the problem in a different way. He is literally trapped in a ground hog day situation but he never experiments in the ground hog day situation for he is so afraid of disaster.



In such a situation Oz / Ozma / Ozpin / Oscar has to do one of two things.

1) Take time off and learn via experience. But he does not do this for he has his quest. Grow by internal incorporation of the external into ones identity.
2) He has to trust others and let other be sources of new information while he does his job of preserving the world which is his quest. But Oz can't do this if he doesn't trust others. He needs others to be his external and by trusting others they can bring new information he can incorporate into his internal.

It seems only the reincarnation soul has been the source of new information for Oz for he has been so unwilling to trust others that he does not share the information. But can the reincarnation other half be a source of new information if the two halfs do not challenge each other? If one half gradually dominantes and replaces the other (as LaZodiac is constantly pointing out)

Literally Oz's personality is literally putting him in a no win scenario for he is unwilling to change.

----

Literally Ozma has become the "ghost in the machine." He is not human anymore^(he is a literal human but he is not acting like one).

Oz is a machine for he is so black and white thinking, all or nothing, sunk cost fallacy, psychological splitting, that he is a SLAVE to his original perspective and this perspective can not adjust, evolve, grow, incorporate new things, etc. He is a machine that rarely incorporates new things, he thinks he is the hero of the story, even though he has been flat out told he can't save the world, he can't be the hero of this story.

-----



Okay I may be liking this story a little more after thinking about this.

Previously I was frustrated with the the Ozma / Ozpin / Oscar for I felt felt it was stupid for Ozma / Ozpin was acting in ways that did not make coherent sense with the "knowledge" that Oz had at the time. He has been being acting stupid for dozens of lifetimes, but perhaps he will finally do something different in this new lifetime with Oscar. Perhaps Oscar will break through that stupid head of the schizophrenic parasite and his delusions / rigid thinking.

[Callos_DeTerran]

But on your other point



Actually Raven can bring other people with her when she calls reinforcements. She can create "portals" tied to people who are beacons, but once the portal is created any one can enter or exit it.

For example in the Vol 5 climax fight. Raven sneaks into the big room as a bird, then summons a portal, Cinder is the first to step through the portal, then Vernal (the person the portal is attached to / has a bond / beacon with), followed by Mercury and Emerald. Aka 3 extra reinforcements were summoned even though Raven only has bond with one of the 4 people.

Of course when you are enemies with someone you may know some aspects of their abilities but not the full power set. So lets say Neo knew Raven is a teleporter but also can call reinforcements with her portals, well Neo may not know the particulars with how her abilities work.

That's...that's exactly what I meant actually.

Salem's people obviously have more information on Oz's then vice-versa (hence Tyrian recognizing Qrow on sight but Qrow having no idea who Salem's preferred Maiden-hunter seems to be) and Neo definitely recognized Raven. What I meant and apparently did not convey well, is that Neo very readily have have recognized Raven and knew that her Semblance allowed Raven to open portals between her and other people, allowing for others to immediately join into her battle if Raven needs them to. Such as Oz, Glynda, Ironwood, Qrow, etc.

We, as the audience, know Raven can only form portals to people Raven has created a link with and that Raven only has a link with two people, Yang and Qrow. That sort of knowledge would be almost impossible for Neo to know though so while she might have been worried about Raven's fighting abilities her sudden bout of sheer terror might have been because she assumed she had been lured into a trap by Oz's conspiracy and was about to be jumped and taken out. You could even say that panic makes more sense if Neo was concerned about an outcome like that becoming reality. Or maybe Neo knew, somehow, that Raven is a Maiden, who knows?

My point was still that Neo working directly for Salem makes the most sense for filling out one of Salem's chairs aside from, MAYBE, Adam who Salem acted like was nothing more than a particularly useful and valuable pawn. Maybe he gets a promotion but from the list Zodiac mentioned, only those two make sense as potential occupants of those chairs.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I'm not going to do a full review, not in a good headspace for it, but here we go with the shortest chapter of the volume so far in abbreviated form.

Spoiler: RWBY V6 Ch 4

Show

So, imagine that, RWBY is still mad at Ozpin after the last chapter but now for a whole new reason! None of them caught the loophole (assuming it is one) in the 'how do I destroy Salem' question and they very angrily want to know why Ozpin hide something THAT big from them.

They also want to know what his plan is for defeating Salem and Oz just...admits that he doesn't have one. Okay..wasn't expecting that, I guess his plan is to keep the gods from ever coming back and keeping the relics separate while stopping Salem's schemes where and when he can. Or he's lying again, who knows?

Qrow gets pissed at Oz and decks him though cause he feels betrayed and Oz doesn't have an answer for him and just...shuts himself away inside of Oscar.

...huh.

Anyway, Nana Goggles tells them all to shut their traps and get a move on, they aren't accomplishing anything by bickering in the snow besides calling death to their doorstep and...she's not wrong. So they head out with Ruby still in possession of the relic.

---

To villain team...and the weird suspicion there's flights to Grim Land but we actually get to SEE the landscape which is cool.

Hazel, Emerald, and Mercury get out and meet Tyrian on the way inside who mocks/mourns for their failure (because its Salem's as well) but also pokes fun at Cinder just for Emerald to draw on him...and be resoundingly put in her place at the same time.

Salem is...unhappy and wants to know who is responsible but rejects the notion that Hazel is solely responsible for what happened and we get to see some magic in the process that is honestly kind of terrifying.

She doesn't even let Hazel talk until Emerald admits it was Cinder's fault they failed and Salem says Cinder's punishment is to toil on her own until she's gotten better. Gives a short speech about how if anyone puts their desires in front of her own, like Cinder did, they're doomed to lose them but if they follow her then they'll get what they want.

Watts wants to know how she could possibly know that, which is a great question, but Tyrian accuses him of doubting Salem's divine powers and..oh yeah, now we know why Tyrian worships her most likely.

Hazel isn't done though and says one of the reasons they failed is because Ozpin was there and...Salem is not happy. To say the least and tells everyone to leave the room. Emerald lingers however and I...got the serious vibe that Salem is starting to groom Emerald for something which is interesting.

She also looks like she's about to do the cliche villain rage that destroys the environment but instead she just lets out a sigh and regains her calm.

Back with RWBY, Qrow is drinking in seemingly unhealthy ways but they find a farm to take shelter in.

Much like the last two, I really enjoyed this one even if its essentially one big scene, its a good scene that is again packed with character work.

Much like the last two, I expect I might be alone in this.

[Pheldagriff]

I'm not going to do a full review, not in a good headspace for it, but here we go with the shortest chapter of the volume so far in abbreviated form.

Spoiler: RWBY V6 Ch 4

Show

So, imagine that, RWBY is still mad at Ozpin after the last chapter but now for a whole new reason! None of them caught the loophole (assuming it is one) in the 'how do I destroy Salem' question and they very angrily want to know why Ozpin hide something THAT big from them.

They also want to know what his plan is for defeating Salem and Oz just...admits that he doesn't have one. Okay..wasn't expecting that, I guess his plan is to keep the gods from ever coming back and keeping the relics separate while stopping Salem's schemes where and when he can. Or he's lying again, who knows?

Qrow gets pissed at Oz and decks him though cause he feels betrayed and Oz doesn't have an answer for him and just...shuts himself away inside of Oscar.

...huh.

Anyway, Nana Goggles tells them all to shut their traps and get a move on, they aren't accomplishing anything by bickering in the snow besides calling death to their doorstep and...she's not wrong. So they head out with Ruby still in possession of the relic.

---

To villain team...and the weird suspicion there's flights to Grim Land but we actually get to SEE the landscape which is cool.

Hazel, Emerald, and Mercury get out and meet Tyrian on the way inside who mocks/mourns for their failure (because its Salem's as well) but also pokes fun at Cinder just for Emerald to draw on him...and be resoundingly put in her place at the same time.

Salem is...unhappy and wants to know who is responsible but rejects the notion that Hazel is solely responsible for what happened and we get to see some magic in the process that is honestly kind of terrifying.

She doesn't even let Hazel talk until Emerald admits it was Cinder's fault they failed and Salem says Cinder's punishment is to toil on her own until she's gotten better. Gives a short speech about how if anyone puts their desires in front of her own, like Cinder did, they're doomed to lose them but if they follow her then they'll get what they want.

Watts wants to know how she could possibly know that, which is a great question, but Tyrian accuses him of doubting Salem's divine powers and..oh yeah, now we know why Tyrian worships her most likely.

Hazel isn't done though and says one of the reasons they failed is because Ozpin was there and...Salem is not happy. To say the least and tells everyone to leave the room. Emerald lingers however and I...got the serious vibe that Salem is starting to groom Emerald for something which is interesting.

She also looks like she's about to do the cliche villain rage that destroys the environment but instead she just lets out a sigh and regains her calm.

Back with RWBY, Qrow is drinking in seemingly unhealthy ways but they find a farm to take shelter in.

Much like the last two, I really enjoyed this one even if its essentially one big scene, its a good scene that is again packed with character work.

Much like the last two, I expect I might be alone in this.

That is a very consise, fitting and funny way to summarize the episode.
Yeah, it was very short, but I liked every minute of it.
You are not alone.

[Mechalich]

Spoiler: RWBY V6 Ch 4

Show

They also want to know what his plan is for defeating Salem and Oz just...admits that he doesn't have one. Okay..wasn't expecting that, I guess his plan is to keep the gods from ever coming back and keeping the relics separate while stopping Salem's schemes where and when he can. Or he's lying again, who knows?

Spoiler: RWBY v6c4

Show

There's nothing that says Oz can't unite the people of the world without destroying Salem and thereby when the gods come back they can do it instead. It's also possible that Salem actually cannot be destroyed - hanging everything on the 'I' loophole is a particularly weak technicality approach, especially since Jinn seems to be the nice kind of genie. I would think that if Ruby (or anyone else) could destroy Salem on Oz' behalf she might have mentioned that.

However, perhaps Salem can be contained, with a clue being the giant dragon at the end of volume three. Ruby didn't destroy it, she froze it somehow. Potentially she could do the same thing to Salem.

Alternatively, it may be that after getting his answer from Jinn Oz simply pushed 'destroy Salem' back to point ten on his ten point plan and hasn't gotten around thinking about the means yet. After all, he's an awfully long way from even containing the Grim - who seem to have free reign over a massive portion of Remnant's surface - or uniting the people into even decently stable states. He was making progress in the recent generations, apparently due in part to technological advances, but Salem's struck back hard and they've only recently managed to even (seemingly temporarily and at considerable cost, remember all those dead huntsmen and huntresses) halt her advances.

It's actually kind of funny that this episode involves Salem throwing a huge fit about 'failure' when her loses were shockingly minor. This is one of the reasons Cinder's survival is such a problem. Cinder was the only asset the debacle at Mistral actually cost Salem. Sure the White Fang went down, but Adam escaped, and the rank and file don't amount to much. Heck, the relic is now without magical protections, meaning if Salem can track it down before they manage to hide it behind Atlas' giant robot army, she could get it back pretty easily. I mean this has only already almost happened once so far in this volume.

[Malak'ai]

I'm not going to do a full review, not in a good headspace for it, but here we go with the shortest chapter of the volume so far in abbreviated form.

Spoiler: RWBY V6 Ch 4

Show

So, imagine that, RWBY is still mad at Ozpin after the last chapter but now for a whole new reason! None of them caught the loophole (assuming it is one) in the 'how do I destroy Salem' question and they very angrily want to know why Ozpin hide something THAT big from them.

They also want to know what his plan is for defeating Salem and Oz just...admits that he doesn't have one. Okay..wasn't expecting that, I guess his plan is to keep the gods from ever coming back and keeping the relics separate while stopping Salem's schemes where and when he can. Or he's lying again, who knows?

Qrow gets pissed at Oz and decks him though cause he feels betrayed and Oz doesn't have an answer for him and just...shuts himself away inside of Oscar.

...huh.

Anyway, Nana Goggles tells them all to shut their traps and get a move on, they aren't accomplishing anything by bickering in the snow besides calling death to their doorstep and...she's not wrong. So they head out with Ruby still in possession of the relic.

---

To villain team...and the weird suspicion there's flights to Grim Land but we actually get to SEE the landscape which is cool.

Hazel, Emerald, and Mercury get out and meet Tyrian on the way inside who mocks/mourns for their failure (because its Salem's as well) but also pokes fun at Cinder just for Emerald to draw on him...and be resoundingly put in her place at the same time.

Salem is...unhappy and wants to know who is responsible but rejects the notion that Hazel is solely responsible for what happened and we get to see some magic in the process that is honestly kind of terrifying.

She doesn't even let Hazel talk until Emerald admits it was Cinder's fault they failed and Salem says Cinder's punishment is to toil on her own until she's gotten better. Gives a short speech about how if anyone puts their desires in front of her own, like Cinder did, they're doomed to lose them but if they follow her then they'll get what they want.

Watts wants to know how she could possibly know that, which is a great question, but Tyrian accuses him of doubting Salem's divine powers and..oh yeah, now we know why Tyrian worships her most likely.

Hazel isn't done though and says one of the reasons they failed is because Ozpin was there and...Salem is not happy. To say the least and tells everyone to leave the room. Emerald lingers however and I...got the serious vibe that Salem is starting to groom Emerald for something which is interesting.

She also looks like she's about to do the cliche villain rage that destroys the environment but instead she just lets out a sigh and regains her calm.

Back with RWBY, Qrow is drinking in seemingly unhealthy ways but they find a farm to take shelter in.

Much like the last two, I really enjoyed this one even if its essentially one big scene, its a good scene that is again packed with character work.

Much like the last two, I expect I might be alone in this.

Spoiler: Volume 6, Chapter 4

Show

I'm starting to really love Nana Goggles. Level headed and straight to the point. It's what QORWBY (Crowby?) needs right now.

But I have to feel sorry for Ozpin. The guy just had his deepest secrets and heartaches spilled to people who were already in a mindset to think the worst of him, and you see their reactions... Yang throws a tantrum and Qrow, his most trusted agent punches him in the face and basically says it's all been for nothing and he wished he'd never met Oz.

As for Team Evil... Wow... Just wow... Salem is even more terrifying than before!

Don't worry Callos, you're not alone. I've loved the last couple of chapters of this volume, I just hope it continues like this (or gets better).

[Ramza00]

Spoiler: Vol 6 Chapter 4

Show

I'm starting to really love Nana Goggles. Level headed and straight to the point. It's what QORWBY (Crowby?) needs right now.

That is the beauty of death.

The Ancient One: Death is what gives life meaning. To know your days are numbered. Your time is short. You'd think after all this time, I'd be ready. But look at me. Stretching one moment out into a thousand... just so that I can watch the snow.

How many days do I have left? I don’t know. No one does. The simultaneous joy and horror of aging is knowing you have less time, but also realizing time is relative , time is relational, and what matters is what you do, what you choose to do, and how you act in this world.

Aka cranky Nana Googles still understands the Vol 1 song. "I May Fall" from RWBY everybody else on this snowfield has forgotten the meaning of those words.

Sidenote yes this is a trope (of always making old people extremely short) so it is not exclusive to this property.... but the fact that Nana Googles is old, short, and with a walking stick is just summoning images of a practical Yoda vibes for she literally pulls a Yoda on RWBY like this.

Skywalker, still looking to the horizon. Never here [hits Luke with the stick], now, hmm? The need in front of your nose.

Everyone else is looking so far into the horizon that they are lost. It literally takes a nearsighted granny to bring them back to reality.

[Anyr]

Spoiler: Divide

Show

It was you who ended their lives
Made them to dig their own graves
With your dark, sick, cruel design
Convinced them their world could be saved

Have you no shame?
Signing them up for your war
Train them to fight what they can't beat
Your sins are what they'll pay for

Sacrifice them
For your needs
Slaughter is coming the end drawing near
You'll regret your deeds

Legends and fairy tales
Scattered in time
Maidens and kingdoms
Wrapped up in a lie

These children you mislead
You'll watch them all bleed
Strength will not bring victory

[Ramza00]

Spoiler: Divide

Show

It was you who ended their lives
Made them to dig their own graves
With your dark, sick, cruel design
Convinced them their world could be saved

Have you no shame?
Signing them up for your war
Train them to fight what they can't beat
Your sins are what they'll pay for

Sacrifice them
For your needs
Slaughter is coming the end drawing near
You'll regret your deeds

Legends and fairy tales
Scattered in time
Maidens and kingdoms
Wrapped up in a lie

These children you mislead
You'll watch them all bleed
Strength will not bring victory

Links to the end of vol 3. 20:03 starts the Salem monologue.

https://youtu.be/hq1lk-QWxNg?t=1203

Divide starts at 22:01 after the monologue.

Also Time to Say Goodbye is also relevant for the most recent Vol 6 episodes. Especially the 3rd to last and 2nd to last stanzas.

Spoiler: Time to Say Goodbye Song

Show

There's a point where it tips
There's a point where it breaks
There's a point where it bends
And a point we just can't take
Anymore

There's a line that we'll cross
And there's no return
There's a time and a place
No bridges left to burn
Anymore

We can't just wait with lives at stake
Until they think we're ready
Our enemies are gathering
The storm is growing deadly

Now it's time to say goodbye
To the things we loved
And the innocence of youth
How the time seemed to fly
From our carefree lives
And the solitude and peace we always knew

There's a day when we'll fight
And we're not gonna fall
There's a day when we'll stand
And a day when we won't crawl
Anymore

There's a moment in time
And there's no going back
When we're pushed too hard
And we won't hold our attack
Anymore

We can't just cling to childish things
As evil just grows closer
Humanity's in jeopardy
This fight is far from over

Now it's time to say goodbye
To the things we loved
And the innocence of youth
With a doubt in our minds
Why we chose this life
And at times we can't help wondering...

Were we born to fight and die?
Sacrificed for one huge lie?
Are we heroes keeping peace?
Or are we weapons?
Pointed at the enemy
So someone else can claim a victory?

Now it's time to say goodbye
To the things we loved
And the innocence of youth
How the time seemed to fly
From our carefree lives
And the solitude and peace we always knew.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Spoiler: Divide

Show

It was you who ended their lives
Made them to dig their own graves
With your dark, sick, cruel design
Convinced them their world could be saved

Have you no shame?
Signing them up for your war
Train them to fight what they can't beat
Your sins are what they'll pay for

Sacrifice them
For your needs
Slaughter is coming the end drawing near
You'll regret your deeds

Legends and fairy tales
Scattered in time
Maidens and kingdoms
Wrapped up in a lie

These children you mislead
You'll watch them all bleed
Strength will not bring victory

Spoiler: V6 Ch 4

Show

Huh...before that could easily be construed as simple villain boasting and hinting at dark secrets Ozpin was holding...and in light of the past few chapters that is largely still the case but now...now there's a lot more context for it.

Especially the

'Convinced them their world could be saved'

and

'Train them to fight what they can't beat'

lines. They're a lot more ominous now.

As for the comment on the 'I' loophole, that is still a fairly massively important detail. Jinn can't tell the future, that is a fact, so the fact Ozpin can't defeat/destroy Salem but Ruby might be able to is a fairly massively crucial detail especially since said defeat/destroying might come about because of the Silver Eyes.

And in the case they are needed to create a permanent solution for Salem, then Ozpin really can't do anything about Salem personally unless he miraculously reincarnates in the body of a Silver-Eyed Warrior at some point.

[Anyr]

Spoiler: V6 Ch 4

Show

Huh...before that could easily be construed as simple villain boasting and hinting at dark secrets Ozpin was holding...and in light of the past few chapters that is largely still the case but now...now there's a lot more context for it.

Especially the

'Convinced them their world could be saved'

and

'Train them to fight what they can't beat'

lines. They're a lot more ominous now.

Spoiler: V06C04

Show

That isn't the only song that's gained new context.

Spoiler: Excerpts from Sacrifice

Show

All your faith in ancient ways,
Leaves you trapped inside a maze.
Take the lives of those you need,
Sow the death then reap the seed.
Reap the seed.

Show them gods and deities,
Blind and keep the people on their knees.
Pierce the sky, escape your fate.
The more you try the more you'll just breed hate,

And lies.
Truth will rise,
Revealed by mirrored eyes.

What if all the plans you made,
Were not worth the price they paid?
Even with the lives you stole,
Still no closer to your...
Goal.

You can't have my life.
I'm not your sacrifice.
You can try, but I'm free,
And you won't conquer me.

I won't crawl,
Most of all,
I won't fall,
For you.

[LaZodiac]

The new Manga chapter is here!

RWBY: The Official Manga, Chapter 1: RWBY

Spoiler

Show

It covers from the opening of the series to the end of Ozpin's speech. The characters have way more...character, for lack of a better term, and the "fight" with Roman is far more "Roman just kinda ****s off and Cinder doesn't get involved because she's the boss why the **** would she be involved". Ozpin doesn't mention the silver eyes at all (and looks like a hunk, the art is honestly kinda weird but it works) and then we speed past everything to get to Beacon so Ruby can show off her weapon fetishest side. Jaune doesn't throw up but he does get mentioned as throwing up.

An actual change! Ruby is really upset about taking the opportunity to jump two years to Beacon because all her actual friends are being left behind, and Yang proverbially throws her off the cliff to make new friends. She hits Weiss, and they actually argue...but unlike in the original series, Ruby stands up for herself! She says Weiss has bad hair and is a stuck up! Weiss TRIES TO STAB HER, but Blake arrives to stop them, calling Weiss out on being a racist **** just kinda offhandedly and distracting them long enough to stop being mad.

Ozpin does a far more better speech, talking about the danger they'll face...but noting that these three years of school, lets make them fun! And then we have a scene where Yang hits on everyone in their pyjamas, including her sister. Please don't do this.

And it ends with Ruby declaring to everyone, who is mad at her for being an idiot or a grade jumper, that she has a goal! She's here for one reason! She wants to become... A Story Book Hero. She wants to be as invincible and as powerful as heroes in fairy tales.

All in all the manga seems like it's an attempt at remaking the original series in a better way. So far, it's way better right off the back, but still...I mean bad. It's better than season 1 but that's not hard. The art is weird, a faux watercolour aesthetic to it.

[Ramza00]

LaZodiac, how does the new manga help, neutral, or hurt shipping fuel

[LaZodiac]

LaZodiac, how does the new manga help, neutral, or hurt shipping fuel

Yang calls Ruby scrumptious, and that is awful and bad.

Yang calls Weiss "adorbs", a real princess type.

Yang just says "Blake..." and leaves it at that. Clearly she's smitten.

[Ramza00]

Yang calls Ruby scrumptious, and that is awful and bad.

Yang calls Weiss "adorbs", a real princess type.

Yang just says "Blake..." and leaves it at that. Clearly she's smitten.

So what I am sensing indirectly, meh on the shipping front .

Thank you for being a good Qrow to me... oops.... Odin have Ravens not Qrows.

[LaZodiac]

So what I am sensing indirectly, meh on the shipping front .

Thank you for being a good Qrow to me... oops.... Odin have Ravens not Qrows.

It literally just started my dude, give it some time.

[Callos_DeTerran]

The new Manga chapter is here!

RWBY: The Official Manga, Chapter 1: RWBY

Spoiler

Show

It covers from the opening of the series to the end of Ozpin's speech. The characters have way more...character, for lack of a better term, and the "fight" with Roman is far more "Roman just kinda ****s off and Cinder doesn't get involved because she's the boss why the **** would she be involved". Ozpin doesn't mention the silver eyes at all (and looks like a hunk, the art is honestly kinda weird but it works) and then we speed past everything to get to Beacon so Ruby can show off her weapon fetishest side. Jaune doesn't throw up but he does get mentioned as throwing up.

An actual change! Ruby is really upset about taking the opportunity to jump two years to Beacon because all her actual friends are being left behind, and Yang proverbially throws her off the cliff to make new friends. She hits Weiss, and they actually argue...but unlike in the original series, Ruby stands up for herself! She says Weiss has bad hair and is a stuck up! Weiss TRIES TO STAB HER, but Blake arrives to stop them, calling Weiss out on being a racist **** just kinda offhandedly and distracting them long enough to stop being mad.

Ozpin does a far more better speech, talking about the danger they'll face...but noting that these three years of school, lets make them fun! And then we have a scene where Yang hits on everyone in their pyjamas, including her sister. Please don't do this.

And it ends with Ruby declaring to everyone, who is mad at her for being an idiot or a grade jumper, that she has a goal! She's here for one reason! She wants to become... A Story Book Hero. She wants to be as invincible and as powerful as heroes in fairy tales.

All in all the manga seems like it's an attempt at remaking the original series in a better way. So far, it's way better right off the back, but still...I mean bad. It's better than season 1 but that's not hard. The art is weird, a faux watercolour aesthetic to it.

...I really, really hope it plays better in action than how you described it because that sounds awful.

Well, I mean obviously Ozpin's speech would since you just cover the content of it but all the rest, including the actual change...eesh...it makes me think there's a lack of understanding of the characters there. Or its another AU type thing like the last one.

[LaZodiac]

...I really, really hope it plays better in action than how you described it because that sounds awful.

Well, I mean obviously Ozpin's speech would since you just cover the content of it but all the rest, including the actual change...eesh...it makes me think there's a lack of understanding of the characters there. Or its another AU type thing like the last one.

Honestly it might just be that this is an accurate, faithful translation of the Japanese version of the show.

It's important to remember that I'm saying it's good in comparison of season 1 itself, wherein everything was bad and nothing mattered. Having even the slightest bit of care put to it makes it a bit better in my bad. It's silly bad, mind you, but still.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Honestly it might just be that this is an accurate, faithful translation of the Japanese version of the show.

It's important to remember that I'm saying it's good in comparison of season 1 itself, wherein everything was bad and nothing mattered. Having even the slightest bit of care put to it makes it a bit better in my bad. It's silly bad, mind you, but still.

Season one still had good characterization and such in it, its just a lot of other things weren't...super good...but man do I still miss the shadow people. I know it was a cost-saving measure, but it would have been a cool stylistic choice too.

But moreso the two big examples that stand out to me as just...wrong and almost a flat misunderstanding of the characters. Or maybe its just Japanese society being projected onto them..

-Weiss almost STABBING Ruby over her hair being insulted and called stuck up. For one, this is the same Weiss that in the actual show was pissed at Ruby for almost killing the both of them but still cared enough about the matter to search Ruby out later to give her an instructional pamphlet to ensure Ruby knew what Dust was and how to safely use it. Never mind the whole 'redeem the Schnee name' goal, a driving part of her character, is hurt pretty bad if she's prepared to shank a complete stranger over a minor insult like that. It seems like a change to just make her into a generic rival figure when at least she had nuance to her opinions in Volume 1.

-Yang is admittedly much more minor..but Yang doesn't seem like the type who likes flirt, aka see her reaction to anyone and everyone who has actually flirted with her on the show. Violence. And here she's hitting on folks. xD

-The Ruby change is...I don't know. It feels wrong, y'know? Like a lot of it is normal Ruby characterization which worked for an overwhelmed sixteen year old that didn't want to be treated special and just wanted to make new friends at her new academy, which is why she didn't stand up to Weiss and such...and then she goes declaring everything like...well...like she's standard shonen protag when Beacon's student body honestly didn't seem to mind that Ruby was younger than all of them.

[LaZodiac]

Season one still had good characterization and such in it, its just a lot of other things weren't...super good...but man do I still miss the shadow people. I know it was a cost-saving measure, but it would have been a cool stylistic choice too.

But moreso the two big examples that stand out to me as just...wrong and almost a flat misunderstanding of the characters. Or maybe its just Japanese society being projected onto them..

-Weiss almost STABBING Ruby over her hair being insulted and called stuck up. For one, this is the same Weiss that in the actual show was pissed at Ruby for almost killing the both of them but still cared enough about the matter to search Ruby out later to give her an instructional pamphlet to ensure Ruby knew what Dust was and how to safely use it. Never mind the whole 'redeem the Schnee name' goal, a driving part of her character, is hurt pretty bad if she's prepared to shank a complete stranger over a minor insult like that. It seems like a change to just make her into a generic rival figure when at least she had nuance to her opinions in Volume 1.

-Yang is admittedly much more minor..but Yang doesn't seem like the type who likes flirt, aka see her reaction to anyone and everyone who has actually flirted with her on the show. Violence. And here she's hitting on folks. xD

-The Ruby change is...I don't know. It feels wrong, y'know? Like a lot of it is normal Ruby characterization which worked for an overwhelmed sixteen year old that didn't want to be treated special and just wanted to make new friends at her new academy, which is why she didn't stand up to Weiss and such...and then she goes declaring everything like...well...like she's standard shonen protag when Beacon's student body honestly didn't seem to mind that Ruby was younger than all of them.

I want to clarify that I'm very, very sick so I wasn't being 100% accurate with my writing. Weiss gets into a fight with Ruby, preparing to do the fight thing she does. I phrase this as gonna stab her cause it's funny and I just threw up all over.

It fits the depiction of Yang going over to explore all the boys in the weird communal floor-bedroom that they slept in in the first episode.

Ruby in the original show was concerned abotu being the bees knees, about being special in a group of normals. But that doesn't make sense given everything about the series. So changing it so she's more concerned about leaving behind her old friends, and not being able to make new ones, fits her characterization while also fitting the world. And Ruby's reason for being a hero when interrogated by coffeeman was she wants to help people, which is a sorta lame duck answer. By stepeing it in the feeling of "I want to be a hero like in a fairy tale" it fits the random fairy tale aesthetic the world intends by having everyone be based on characters from these stories.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I want to clarify that I'm very, very sick so I wasn't being 100% accurate with my writing. Weiss gets into a fight with Ruby, preparing to do the fight thing she does. I phrase this as gonna stab her cause it's funny and I just threw up all over.

It fits the depiction of Yang going over to explore all the boys in the weird communal floor-bedroom that they slept in in the first episode.

Ruby in the original show was concerned abotu being the bees knees, about being special in a group of normals. But that doesn't make sense given everything about the series. So changing it so she's more concerned about leaving behind her old friends, and not being able to make new ones, fits her characterization while also fitting the world. And Ruby's reason for being a hero when interrogated by coffeeman was she wants to help people, which is a sorta lame duck answer. By stepeing it in the feeling of "I want to be a hero like in a fairy tale" it fits the random fairy tale aesthetic the world intends by having everyone be based on characters from these stories.

Aahhhh, okay, that's not nearly as bad. xD

Still a bit strange...Yang makes that comment but she never actually acts on it, you know? She just eats the eye-candy.

That's actually not a change though, and this isn't me getting on your case. Cause I'm guessing its been a real long time since you've watched volume one, but Ruby has that exact same 'concerned because she's leaving her old friends behind and not knowing if she'll be able to make new ones' characterization, that's actually not something they changed. Its the reason she mentions the whole not wanting to be the bee's knees thing in the first place, she doesn't want to be special because she wants to make friends.

As for her answer...Hmm...I see your point but I don't necessarily think that's the best way to go. Her answer that she just wants to help people is...well..simple and sure its a bit lame-duck but fits Ruby's character. Its why its so obvious in Volume 2 that Oobleck never has to ask her why she wants to be a Huntress but he asks Weiss, Blake, and Yang. So her wanting to be like a fairy tale hero works, but also carries the baggage, meaning to or not, that she wants to be famous and such as well. Both of these work, I think its just a matter of preference. The 'be a fairy tale hero!' smacks too much of the 'I'm going to be Hokage/King of the Pirates' to me while her original answer, that is a bit plain, made her stand out to me cause...well the same reason as Deku honestly. Deku could just as easily claim he wants to be the number one hero and it make sense, but that's not really Deku's jive...Deku wants to help people.

[Ramza00]

Both of these work, I think its just a matter of preference. The 'be a fairy tale hero!' smacks too much of the 'I'm going to be Hokage/King of the Pirates' to me while her original answer, that is a bit plain, made her stand out to me cause...well the same reason as Deku honestly. Deku could just as easily claim he wants to be the number one hero and it make sense, but that's not really Deku's jive...Deku wants to help people.

While in many anime and other similar medium often have the protagonists with similar goals, the reasons why these characters want these goals are often very different. Deku is not the same as Naruto and so on. Furthermore part of the storytelling process is even if the character has the same goal, the WHY behind the desire often changes / grows more layers and has meaning shifts inside the person. Mimesis in action, especially when it becomes ritualized.

But since we are talking about characters with goals to become heroes, hokages, pirates king, number one hero let me add another.



Tell me Kerry what do you want to grow up to be?
Well...
What I want to be...is a Champion of Justice*!
[...]Music Plays while the Credits for the Epilogue start[...]Ato ichido dake kiseki wa okoru darou<sup>Will one last miracle come to past?

*The dubbed version uses the term Hero for the translation of Seigi no Mikata. /
A literal translation would be "Ally/Defender/Champion of Justice", /
translating it as hero does not capture the right meaning with the English translation, but saying something like "Superhero" would.</sup>

[Callos_DeTerran]

While in many anime and other similar medium often have the protagonists with similar goals, the reasons why these characters want these goals are often very different. Deku is not the same as Naruto and so on. Furthermore part of the storytelling process is even if the character has the same goal, the WHY behind the desire often changes / grows more layers and has meaning shifts inside the person. Mimesis in action, especially when it becomes ritualized.

Deku doesn't have the same goal as Naruto and so on, but you aren't wrong!

But since we are talking about characters with goals to become heroes, hokages, pirates king, number one hero let me add another.



Tell me Kerry what do you want to grow up to be?
Well...
What I want to be...is a Champion of Justice*!
[...]Music Plays while the Credits for the Epilogue start[...]Ato ichido dake kiseki wa okoru darou<sup>Will one last miracle come to past?

*The dubbed version uses the term Hero for the translation of Seigi no Mikata. /
A literal translation would be "Ally/Defender/Champion of Justice", /
translating it as hero does not capture the right meaning with the English translation, but saying something like "Superhero" would.</sup>

"I hurt a lot of marbles Shiro."

[LaZodiac]

Aahhhh, okay, that's not nearly as bad. xD

Still a bit strange...Yang makes that comment but she never actually acts on it, you know? She just eats the eye-candy.

That's actually not a change though, and this isn't me getting on your case. Cause I'm guessing its been a real long time since you've watched volume one, but Ruby has that exact same 'concerned because she's leaving her old friends behind and not knowing if she'll be able to make new ones' characterization, that's actually not something they changed. Its the reason she mentions the whole not wanting to be the bee's knees thing in the first place, she doesn't want to be special because she wants to make friends.

As for her answer...Hmm...I see your point but I don't necessarily think that's the best way to go. Her answer that she just wants to help people is...well..simple and sure its a bit lame-duck but fits Ruby's character. Its why its so obvious in Volume 2 that Oobleck never has to ask her why she wants to be a Huntress but he asks Weiss, Blake, and Yang. So her wanting to be like a fairy tale hero works, but also carries the baggage, meaning to or not, that she wants to be famous and such as well. Both of these work, I think its just a matter of preference. The 'be a fairy tale hero!' smacks too much of the 'I'm going to be Hokage/King of the Pirates' to me while her original answer, that is a bit plain, made her stand out to me cause...well the same reason as Deku honestly. Deku could just as easily claim he wants to be the number one hero and it make sense, but that's not really Deku's jive...Deku wants to help people.

Yang talkinng about going to check out guys and then just hanging out with all the girls in pyjamas is a lesbian power move.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Yang talkinng about going to check out guys and then just hanging out with all the girls in pyjamas is a lesbian power move.

I'll be honest, I wouldn't really know. I am woefully under-schooled in power moves, lesbian or otherwise.

[Ramza00]

Deku doesn't have the same goal as Naruto and so on, but you aren't wrong!



"I hurt a lot of marbles Shiro."

S: YOU!
S: Yeah...
S: That...somehow reminds me of someone,
S: I can't place who?
S: I feel like only those who are directly familiar
S: with my history would know who though
R: Well! Saying things like that,
R: just makes me feel excluded from the conversation!
S: **Maybe,** not everyone has to have the conversation,
S: maybe it's a conversation with those in the know.
S: **Maybe,** subjects are easier to talk about with nuance, when you assume the participants familiarity with them!

---
YS: Dad did Marbles hurt you?
OK: No kiddo, I hurt me.

[Reddish Mage]

Ruby in the original doesn't want to be the "bees knees" (special in a group of normals" she wants to fit in. She wants to be a "normal girl with normal knees." So she says in episode 1 anyway.

Next episode she tells Blake she always wanted to be like the story book heroes. She always had that as her driving motivation to be a huntress. This is consistent with the more generic answer she gives to Ozpin, that she wants to "help people."

Unlike a standard shounen protagonist Ruby doesn't scream her goal is to be a storybook hero to the crowd. She doesn't want anyone to think she's special, she doesn't want to draw attention to herself, she just wants to go out and actually be like her heroes from fairy tales.

It sounds like the manga differs quite a bit in this aspect. This may lead to Ruby acting much more like the typical main character of a manga and less like a wallflower.