RWBY IX: Fractured Fairy Tales

**Mechalich** · 2017-12-11, 02:33 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Reddish Mage

YouTube releases Saturday morning. 24 hours puts the spoiler-free period to Sunday morning.

Spoiler: S5E9 Gathering Storm

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This episode is seriously telegraphing the course of the rest of the volume, and it appears they are going to end with the invasion of Haven.

Raven cut a deal with Cinder after all, but she does it in a way that proves she really is on her own side of this and Vernal is very much her person. That is...really quite brilliant.

She manages to drive off Watts, convinces Cinder to participate an unnecessary battle for the relic, and gets a shot at the relic herself. At the end, it looks like she is flying to Haven to warn Qrow of the deal she made (likely minus the plans on the relic), so Raven manages to play all sides of this, and carve out a place for herself.

The other thing going on is that Blake appears to be wrapping up the fight at her family’s home. I think its pretty clear whose going to win the fight now. At first I thought Illia will escape so Blake can fight her later during the battle of Haven. Yang is more viscerally hurt by Adam and I think its more important Yang bests Adam.

However, now I suppose the two can take him down together. Illia seems to me to be reaching the end of her character arc, it might be best to have Blake finish it next episode. I think Blake and Sun will be the ones to head over to Haven, while Blake’s parents will stay to handling Menagerie and the White Fang there after the coup attempt.

Everything is aimed at the battle of Haven now, there is no way this is not going down at the end of the Volume.

Raven is the one who set up the battle of Haven, and on terms favorable to her. I doubt this will turn out well though. Raven doesn’t have much use outside this volume and it may be convenient to kill both Raven and Qrow, but I’d prefer to see Raven survive and proven wrong about her plan to go it alone in thwarting Salem. You could say Raven is hoping to stalemate Salem with her plan, and even Raven’s own statements suggest that isn’t a very smart idea. Qrow can certainly survive but will be sent on a mission away from the main group after Haven.

I think Cinder will get the knowledge relic, as this would ramp up the threat of the villains nicely. Alternatively, Cinder may achieve a mixed victory (say by killing Vernal and getting her power too), but unless she gets some sort of victory, CME has a major problem with convincing us of their threat in the future.

I’d actually prefer Cinder gets Vernal powers and RWBY ends up with the knowledge relic. This way maybe we can get a deep mystical knowledge dump (fat chance).

This is definitely a good episode. I think its the best in the volume so far. I’m only a little disappointed that the combat itself at Blake’s place could have been taken up a notch.

Spoiler: v5c9

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I think we're going to get the Faunus from menagerie as cavalry to save Haven now. The White Fang clearly overplayed their hand here by going after the Blake's parents and this looks to be about to rebound on them Pearl Harbor style. Also, this volume is probably a good place for the White Fang to go down anyway, given that their political motives are out in the open anyway. They're hardly in a position to survive a victory at Haven, much less a defeat. Presumably Blake and Yang, along with possibly Ilia will team up to take down Adam and exorcise demons/repair the breach in the team. Failing to wrap the White Fang subplot up with this volume would be a shame.

I expect Haven to be severely damaged - even more than it already has been, Qrow's little montage of all the dead huntsmen/huntresses was actually a massive win for Salem that occurred in the background - but not destroyed. I could see Qrow - perhaps seriously injured - taking on the headmaster role at least temporarily. This also provides a convenient way to bring former Beacon students back into the story for future large-scale encounters (which pleases the fans and also saves money because you don't have to design new characters).

I think Cinder will get the relic, but not kill Vernal, simply because we haven't seen much of Vernal yet and I'd like to think we'd get more than just one fight sequence out of a Maiden in this show. I also don't think either Mercury or Emerald are going to die yet, because they also haven't done anything this volume. I rather hope Raven dies, if nothing else because her vocal performance is so weak compared to almost every other character (it was really bugging me during the whole negotiation scene). I'm assuming she's going to sacrifice herself - and quite possibly the relic - in order to save Yang. We'll see if she takes anyone down in the process.

Predicted Casualties:
1. Raven
2. Lionheart
3. Adam Taurus
4. Ilia - if she's not imprisoned or something similar by the end of next episode.

**LaZodiac** · 2017-12-11, 11:54 PM (ISO 8601)

Blood oooath

Spoiler: V5C8

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This video had an ad in it. Not like, an actual ad, but the actual full on episode had an ad put into it. Don't ****ing do this.

The episode title reminds me of far, far greater things. When the stars aliiiign...

It starts simply enough, Ruby looking at the dawning sky. Yang interrupts her, and tickles her face with her hair as a sort of sisterly teasing thing. Cute. Then Weiss arrives with coffee, to help wake them up. With a blasphemous amount of cream and sugar for Ruby, as Weiss puts it. Ruby says "Nice Weiss strikes again" and Weiss teases her by pulling the cup back and jokingly saying she'll dunk the scalding hot coffee on her if she smarts up again. It's silly, and doesn't quite work well (the facial animation and voice acting make it feel less like a joke than intended) but I like that they tried, at least.

When Weiss is sitting down we get probably the most egregious example of how these girls just don't have pelvis's. Her legs end at the thigh and are otherwise just void above. Look, I'm all for cute short skirts, and while I think these outfits are really stupid, they don't have to be. But these hyper short skirts are clearly causing some genuine graphical problems and difficulties. Lengthen the skirts or let them wear pants.

Yang is surprised to realize that they really are like, a quarter of the way across the world. Ruby and Weiss balk at this because I mean the magic and stuff, which Yang is like "oh yeah right that stuff too obviously".

If the coffee is as hot as Weiss said Ruby guzzling the entire cup in one go should be impossible. I know coffee, that stuff gets HOT when it gets hot.

Ruby is sad that Blake isn't with them. Same here, if only because it means we'd have less of stupid Zoo island to deal with. Yang...gets REALLY SNIPPY about this, though to be fair Blake did abandon her with one arm out of ****ing nowhere after her evil stalker boyfriend sliced Yang's arm off. I'd be a little bitter about that too. Blake didn't have to run away like a dumb stupid coward, she could be hear fighting with them. But she ran away. Ruby asks if Yang is still mad at Blake about it and Yang gets sarcastic about it, and Weiss gets annoyed. Yang shouts her down, her eyes doing the angry red mode thing they do, but she realizes it and holds back, leaving the group.

Meanwhile, in Zoo. It's time for more Blake Does Nothing. Sun asks if she's ready...for something, because again the show continues and INSISTS that we don't actually get any context for things happening in Zoo before they actually happen (turns out it's for more recruiting. At like 8 at night, though to be fair Sun mentions later they're specifically targetting the nocturnal districts). She finds a secret note by the chameleon girl who wants to meet up with her in private somewhere secluded. Because that's a good idea. She's also told to come alone and that "I'll find you" which makes it pretty clear the chameleon girl is stalking Blake all the time now. Blake blows Sun off briefly to go "take care of something first" which means she's obviously going to see the chameleon girl.

Aaand back to Yang. She's looking at a photo of team RWBY and having a sad. That's fair, there's some clear connection between Yang and Blake, beyond the fact that Yang lost an arm fighting Blake's idiot boyfriend. Someone knocks on the door and comes in, and it's Weiss. Yang initially suspected Ruby. It being Weiss is interesting, at least. Weiss trying to talk Yang down from...being angry at Blake for justifiable reasons will be a sight to behold.

Weiss proceeds to choose the dialogue option of "say nothing" like three or four times in a row, and Yang just kinda spills her heart out. Weiss doesn't know what it's like to be abandoned. Yang's Mom left, Ruby's mom "left" and probably is just dead, Bigyang was always working. Ruby was a baby so she couldn't even say words. Yang basically lived the ****tiest normal life possible. So having Blake, someone she really cares about, abandon her too just really stung, especially since it was in a moment that she REALLY needed support. Especially so from Blake, given the aforementioned deep caring and also that this is ENTIRELY because of Blake.

Weiss begins her speech about how her life was Also Bad, and once again we see VERY clearly that Weiss' legs just end mid thigh. Sorry to harp on this it just looks really bad. Anyway Weiss brings up some family stuff. When she was ten years old Wiess!Dad outright just told her Mom that he married her purely for her fancy name and money. Just outright. On Weiss's ****ING BIRTHDAY. You're pushing this a little too much guys. This understandably slowly began to tear her family apart, and in ways that are making me feel uncomfortable for personal reasons. Yang apologizes for snapping at her, and Weiss says the actually rather understated point of, they're all suffering from the same problems, it just is different to them each personally. The ways Weiss feels about being alone are different from Yang's but they're still the same idea. And Blake probably has hers too.

Blake is the beloved princess daughter of the mayor and chef of Zoo with a loving Mom and the implied pretty implicit love of the people. She joined the revolution and spent a large amount of time basically just having fun fighting the good fight with a person she generally loved. Then he became nutso and she ran away. I...don't actually think Weiss is right here? Blake has problems, she's super self concious and has difficulty making choices for herself and when she does they're always bad...but feeling alone isn't one of them. There's the obvious idea that her being a cat person makes her feel like an outcast and thus is "alone" in that sense, and that's valid. But I feel like that's more a side issue whereas Yang's ****ed up family and Weiss's even more ****ed up family is the core issue with their lives. Blake's insecurity about being a cat is related to her own general insecurities at life.

Yang then counters with, at it's core, what I just said. Blake's problem isn't that she's alone. She had three really good friends who love her very clearly and dearly, who all did their best to be their for her. But Blake still ran away. Justify it as fear Adam would kill them or not, Blake made a choice to abandon the people who care about her in the time they most needed it, because she WANTED to be alone.

Weiss reasons that Blake ran away because, as I said, Adam hurt one of the people she cares about. Yang gets upset at this, pointing out the reasonable concern that "if you need help please say you do" thing, and then doubles back to mention that...SHE needed Blake too, and she was just left their, alone and down an arm.

Weiss says the only thing they can really do now for her is to be ready to accept her when she comes back. And that's fair, and true, and is a good solution to this. Blake will be back, she just needs to cool down a bit. Yang doubts this. Weiss says that she'll be there for Blake, and "while we're not as close...I'll be there for you too Yang".

I'm gonna say this now instead of waiting for the scene to end. Weiss, you're close to RUBY. You're not close to ANYONE else. You've barely interacted with anyone on this team except Ruby in any way other than negatively. ESPECIALLY with Blake. This feels like it's a really good scene overall, it really is, but it's wounded by the fact that it's WEISS. I like Weiss, I do, but she's the last person I'd expect to actually be this caring and understanding. About anything. I'd trust a cabbage to be more considerate about my feelings than Weiss, based on...basically everything from the entire first three seasons. I knew she grew over season 4, but it doesn't really feel like she's at the point where she should be spouting all this pretty empathic stuff, given the last time we saw Weiss so...basically any sympathy for people was either her getting mad at rich people for being rich ****ers, or for her basically forcing out an apology to Blake about how she's a racist.

I know she's grown. But it doesn't show well. This kind of comes out of nowhere, especially given it takes up almost the entire episode. Some degree of build up to "Weiss is actually nice and understanding now" would of been nice. I should clarify that this isn't something I consider DAMAGINGLY bad, it's just something that stands out as a "hmm, I'd do this differently" moment. It ends with Ruby coming in and seeing if everything is okay, and it is. Yay.

Now back to Blake doing...things?? Maybe???? She's going to meet with the chameleon girl.

Surprisingly literally no one, this is a trap. Blake says they can protect the chameleon girl, and she apologizes. Blake doesn't understand, and proving that the chameleon is capable of acting at least a little, repeats her sorry in a more menacing tone. A bat faunus jumps on Blake from the sky and does enough damage to keep her down gasping in pain and...um. Why? Aura exists. Two other faunus show up and just...kinda allow Blake to stand up for some reason. One of them has weird veins so is probably a jellyfish of some sort.

Oh, no she's a spider. For some reason. She spiderwebs Blake and for some reason Blake, the ninja, who has intense professional training and has aura, gets beaten by these two chuckle****s. The third one doesn't do anything. The bat has the chameleon girl's weapon so he can throw it over to her so she can make a show of taking it out and beating Blake unconcious with it. Blake asks the chameleon girl what the **** is up with her, and she explains that...there is no right or wrong, there are no innocents, kill em all kekeke do what's best for you.

God ****ing damnit this is the worst.

She continues, denouncing both the humans who are racists, and the humans who allow racism to still happen (a fair point but given the rest of this and RT's track record on being really ****ty about this topic in this show, regardless of their acceptance elsewhere, I have no desire to discuss this) and says that, you know what snuffs out hate? Fear.

Fear.

FEAR.

Look, there's a lot to be said about fear and it's controlling factor. Make a nazi afraid so he won't go out and run over a person. Make a business owner afraid that the union will sink his business if he doesn't pay his employees a living wage. There's valid and good reasons for fear. FEAR DOES NOT SOLVE HATE. FEAR IS HATE. They are THE SAME THING. I won't get into this, but 90% of the time you find someone who's VEHEMENTLY hateful against something, you can basically assure yourself that they resemble that remark. It's easier to count the ones who AREN'T. Hate and fear are the same thing, divided only by a willingness to act. And the thing about fear is that once you hit a wall all that fear becomes hate. Hate burns itself out and leaves a damaged broken person who makes more damaged, broken people, but fear makes that hate burn worse once it hits a certain point. This IS NOT CORRECT. It's called the flight or fight instinct for a reason.

Also while some people would argue that fear and hate are not the same, I feel like that's just an issue with my wording. They're two different sides that feed into each other, and a lot of hate comes from fear. It's just how I process these emotions mentally.

The chameleon girl says that she doesn't like hurting people, but it gets results. Again, I'm not having this discussion because there's no reason to, this entire plot tumour of an attempt at world building is All Bad and I have no desire to discuss it. Call me when we're talking about a series that knows how to handle this stuff better overall and then I'll discuss things like this. Blake counters that yeah, violence has clearly put you in a strong position, friend of mine who's holding a whip knife to my neck while I struggle against these boob exencuating spider webs.

I get that Blake's trying to make a point here but I don't care.

Chameleon girl says that killing Blake's family will be for the greater good. Blake obviously does not agree. The chameleon girl is instead going to lock Blake up in a crate and mail her to Adam.

Blake insists this isn't her, and the chameleon girl says that no, it is. And then goes off on a tangent about how she had a crush on Blake and was jealous of Adam. Which is why she's now helping Adam get his claws on Blake so he can probably do all sorts of nasty horrible things to her.

Okay, look. Let's put aside the big reveal that Illia is a lesbian for a second to focus on the fact that she's a terribly written paper doll of a character made by people who don't really understand what they're writing about in the slightest. Okay. The chameleon girl is an idiot. I realize getting caught up in the fervor of doing a murder justice on innocents is a thing, cults are bad okay? But...if you really did actually like her you'd be a bit more hesitant than this. You'd be able to see reason, or at least one would hope. But instead you're just an idiot. A crazy psycho who got jilted at love so you decided the best course of action would to become the servant of the person WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE JILTING. It just doesn't make any sense.

Also, oh boy it's time for "lets introduce a minority character to a show but also make them a bad guy who's craaazy". Remember how I was annoyed that Wukong is literally the embodiment of all the racist things people say about Faunus and how that's just a really bad look? That's this, again. They made the same mistake again. Only somehow worse since Wukong's just a ****ing moron, the chameleon girl is implied to at least have brain cells in her head. I'm not saying that you have to make every character positive, far from it. But you've gotta keep image in mind. My only solace is that Illia is probably more on Fenix and Corvix's side and will do a traitor 180 on Adam the instant it's viable to do so, because why the **** wouldn't she?

ANYWAY, Blake shouts for Wukong to come save the day and he does so. Apparently he was able to keep it in his pants long enough for Blake to have to tell him to step in. I find this inherently unbelievable given Wukong casually crossed half the ****ing globe following her for no real reason beyond shrug.

Oh so no Blake can knock a person out with one punch, which she does to the spider lady. Somehow she's managed to recover from getting stepped on very forcefully so now she remembers she can actually fight.

Wukong asks Blake if she's okay. ****ING WHAT DO YOU THINK DIP****???? That's essentially her response too. So they run off to save Blake family.

We cut to the belladonna abode, where white fang members are shooting up the place. A guard protects BlakeMom, getting shot and presumably killed in the process, so it's up to Mom to shoot the terrorists. MOMS ARE TOUGH!

Why don't people in this universe use aura? Aura is known, widely known, and is simple to activate even if it requires training to keep up. This is a quasi death world. Why would you not take the time to learn how to do aura so you can protect yourself from, you know, some rando with an axe shotgun coming in to rob you?

For some reason all of the gun havers decided to fight Mom, so Dad gets to do all the melee fighting. But then the two named ****s who I don't remember the name of despite writing it like half a paragraph ago show up and are like "MMMM, yes it's time for the chieftan to step down brother yes mmmm" god I hate these actors. Hopefully they're dealt with quickly. Blake dad hulks out (even jutting out claws and everything, which...you know if faunus can just do stuff like that might of been a good way of showing why people fear them just FYI) and runs at them after ripping off all of his armour because big burly man fight time. That's the episode.

And that's it. My thoughts on today's blood letting in the name of dark gods?;

Spoiler: V5C8

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Everything to do with Blake and her adventures a month ago in zoo town are ****ing garbage. When nothing is happening it's RWBY at it's more boring and when stuff is happening it's stupid. It is overall not an enjoyable experience, not helped by the fact that the entire EVERYTHING with Illlia's character is ****ing ridiculous. I'm really sad that BlakeDad is probably going to die (though Mom will live hashtag moms are tough, probably) and if both parents die well then **** me, you've surprised me on that regard at least. Though I see no reason for either of them to die here beyond motivating Blake to go to Mistral, which she should anyway after this event.

That aside the moment with Weiss was good, marred only by the fact that I just don't believe Weiss is at the point where she should be making this empathic a talk down to someone. This is just a personal opinion thing and not something I find entirely negative, just not how I'd do it.

Also as I sort of implied above, I really don't like the time scale because it makes the Blake stuff feel less important.

As an addendum, since I feel it's worth bringing up at least in part: BlakeDad hulking out like a werewolf better pay off. If all that really happened here is that he just got REAL MAD, without any actual physical changes beyond the nails coming out (which is honestly about as threatening as someone putting on nail razors given there's no context as to how sharp a faunus's claws are if they have them) I'm gonna be pissed. You don't have a big burly huge man rip off his shirt and werewolf scream at people if he doesn't do something impressive. Don't waste my time with that ****.

**HalfTangible** · 2017-12-12, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)

I'm now convinced that Yang doesn't love Blake.

Because falling in love with Blake is a sure sign that you're going to be one of the worst characters in the entire show.

**Reddish Mage** · 2017-12-12, 01:00 AM (ISO 8601)

A few things: keeping the mood in RWBY away from cheesecake means weighing down the skirts (Seasons 1-2 option), lengthening the skirts, or...apparently the animators fond a third option by giving the skirt an bottom that the legs just disappeer in.

I find both Weiss’s and Blake’s families a bit of an ill fit for their personalities. Weiss was the heir to the Schneider dust company (as in this was a center focal-point of her identity) and seemed all alone in the world. Having an older sister (especially a close one that Weiss’s follows like a perfect soldier) complicates both aspects of her personality. Weiss literally just becomes a different person around Winter.

Blake had that perfect childhood, and apparently all her suffering for the treatment of Faunuses was something she absorbed from propaganda and books. Then she left her perfect parents (who admittedly may not have seemed so great at the time) and joined a cult.

Getting screwed up by a cult is something I think is pretty realistic though. Getting screwed up by Adam even easier.

I’d imagine it would be easier to justify Blake’s insecurities around being Faunus and herself if Blake was an orphan actually raised among humans. Instead, Blake appears to have really supportive parents who no doubt gave her all the ballet recitals and piano lessons to turn out right (without being Weiss’s psycho dad making her practice and perform before huge audiences). I cannot think of any reason why Blake has insecurities other than Adam put them there (maybe she was just born with them?).

I think you are totally off about Illia, as in your right about Illia but she’s awesome for how she’s put together.

Illia’s personality is perfect for a screwed up assassin of the White Fang who was also Blake’s best friend. She has that absurd notion that fear snuffs out hatred, and she thinks killing and mistreating friends is the way to promote the cause. The coup de grace (I need to work in an killing pun) is she also is in love-love with Blake. These completely crazy motives are what makes her an assassin and actually somewhat interesting as a villain too.

Of course Illia will get revenge on Blake for not returning her feelings by returning her to the man that took her away. That sort of sadistic revenge is so perfect, in the context of delivering Blake to Adam when she wants desperately to be nowhere near him, its poetic.

Finally, without spoiling too much of what goes on in the future, I have a message about episode 9 for you.

Spoiler: S5E9 Zodi’s future reaction

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You are going to be disappointed.

**LaZodiac** · 2017-12-12, 01:14 AM (ISO 8601)

I mean I'm still not sure if Illia's behavior is meant to be seen as incorrect or not. She's like, wrong in the sense that she's against our heroes, but there's a difference between being wrong and being insane, and it's a fine line.

Basically...I think I like Illia more as a character (I've decided to start using her name for one) but I also really dislike that "this is a character they have at all" if that makes sense.

I can speak from experience that to some degree self esteem issues are inbuilt and not taught or learned or "gained" though they can be all of those things, so it's not WEIRD to me that Blake is all of that, it's just also kind of a hard sell in general because as you pointed out, Blake's life was basically perfect.

**Lord Raziere** · 2017-12-12, 01:46 AM (ISO 8601)

Yeah, to be honest, Blake having parents REALLY screwed up the character. Like, you had this good contrast between Weiss and Blake going where one would be lower class and the other upper class, while this foiling technique is an old cliche, its useful for establishing multiple viewpoints about the world, conflicts between haves and have nots that you can examine in miniature, and generally develop drama and relationships based upon the diversity.

Weiss having a bigger sister doesn't screw up the character AS much, at least to me, but that might be because I know what its like to have a family as dysfunctional as Weiss's. maybe not quite to the same degree, but I know what its like to have a father more concerned with his business than his family, that father being screwed up in the head and the entire family being systemically screwed up as a result: older siblings having experienced the family's screwed up nature the longest are the most used to it and can better cope with it because they had less people shouting at them when growing up, while younger siblings their troubles are compounded, because their older siblings being raised by the screwed up father won't have any method of helping to raise their younger sibling than the ones that were used on them, thus more older siblings trying to raise you with screwed up methods means more pressure weighing you down and you see how clearly everything is screwed up but because the numbers are against you, it feels like your powerless to change anything about your situation so you just go along with it just so you won't complicate things for everyone else because you know everyone is tired of their own family being jerks to each other all the time, so it feels as if all you can do is nod at what everyone wants you to do and be calm while secretly wishing you can break free and be your own person without people stomping down on you when actually tell them your feelings, so it feels like you can't share anything with your own family because every important discussion feels like an argument because they often are, so you cant trust any discussion you can have with them to actually be productive or supportive or friendly, especially when your an introvert and families expect you to try and small talk and make pointless expressions and niceties you don't actually care about, to the point where you have friendlier conversations with strangers you meet in passing which is not hyperbole! because they don't have any of that baggage or expectations.

*cries*
sorry got a little real there. hahaha. To get back on track: Winter being a kinder older sister to Weiss? doesn't solve the problem. because Winter's only tools to help her are the same tools her father uses, all Winter can do is apply them a little softer to try get her used to the screwed up status quo smoother. the loneliness Weiss feels is one of a stifling cage surrounded by tormentors, not a desolate wasteland where no friends ever came.

**LaZodiac** · 2017-12-12, 02:07 AM (ISO 8601)

As the Winter of my own garbage family, *Hugs*

**Lord Raziere** · 2017-12-12, 03:24 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by LaZodiac

As the Winter of my own garbage family, *Hugs*

*Hugs back*

point is, I can buy Weiss showing more empathy around friends who aren't connected to her family, who she has a form of loyalty that feels legitimate no matter how loosely connected or how bad you were at forming or maintaining the bond, because yes, Weiss probably hasn't talked to Yang or Blake as much as she should've.....and she is probably regretting it. because when your in that position, you have no idea how to express or properly build a friendship, like I have friends, but I know I don't talk to them as much as I should, there are some that I haven't talked to in years that I wish I could get back in contact with, so you treasure every moment you can have an actual good conversation with them and express what you feel to them, because small talk is oddly hard for some reason and so is pretending to care about the stuff they do but you don't just for the sake of being a friend, and normal life just seems a constant battle to keep a strong stoic face against what you deal with every day just so you don't break down and get yelled at for breaking down in the face of people who think they know whats best for you but are really just adding to the pressure no matter how well-intentioned.

like. when your spending all your energy just to keep yourself composed and guarded against constant pressure of expectations you aren't sure of how to meet, assuming you even care about meeting them, you end up not having a lot of energy to express empathy. I'm not giving RT credit for accurately portraying Weiss or anything, I'm under no such illusions, but I still find it incredibly plausible to me, even if you assume its accidental. I dunno, I guess I find Weiss the most relatable to me, and therefore I can understand and come up with explanations for how she might act.

hm, maybe should make a Weiss fan fic about this sort of thing, I have no idea how to portray Ruby well ( maybe change her to be less naive and lot more brainy and inventive, since she has an interest in weapons and no social skills?), and I'd probably change Blake's family situation entirely while Yang.....probably keep the same, I like her just the way she is, but I might just be a sucker for fiery shonen heroes who actually care about and be warm to the people they love and protect.

**Reddish Mage** · 2017-12-12, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)

Actually, now I recall Blake and Ghira both describe Blake's childhood as among the White Fang rather than as the daughter of the chief in Menagerie. That's a significantly more appropriate childhood.

Ghira's White Fang was supposedly the warmer fuzzier kind, but confrontational protests to fill your day is much different than living a lux life distant for all that.

Also, we know Blake stayed on with the White Fang after Ghira got out and got a big house.

**Callos_DeTerran** · 2017-12-12, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by LaZodiac

Blood oooath

Spoiler: V5C8

Show

This video had an ad in it. Not like, an actual ad, but the actual full on episode had an ad put into it. Don't ****ing do this.

The episode title reminds me of far, far greater things. When the stars aliiiign...

It starts simply enough, Ruby looking at the dawning sky. Yang interrupts her, and tickles her face with her hair as a sort of sisterly teasing thing. Cute. Then Weiss arrives with coffee, to help wake them up. With a blasphemous amount of cream and sugar for Ruby, as Weiss puts it. Ruby says "Nice Weiss strikes again" and Weiss teases her by pulling the cup back and jokingly saying she'll dunk the scalding hot coffee on her if she smarts up again. It's silly, and doesn't quite work well (the facial animation and voice acting make it feel less like a joke than intended) but I like that they tried, at least.

When Weiss is sitting down we get probably the most egregious example of how these girls just don't have pelvis's. Her legs end at the thigh and are otherwise just void above. Look, I'm all for cute short skirts, and while I think these outfits are really stupid, they don't have to be. But these hyper short skirts are clearly causing some genuine graphical problems and difficulties. Lengthen the skirts or let them wear pants.

Yang is surprised to realize that they really are like, a quarter of the way across the world. Ruby and Weiss balk at this because I mean the magic and stuff, which Yang is like "oh yeah right that stuff too obviously".

If the coffee is as hot as Weiss said Ruby guzzling the entire cup in one go should be impossible. I know coffee, that stuff gets HOT when it gets hot.

Ruby is sad that Blake isn't with them. Same here, if only because it means we'd have less of stupid Zoo island to deal with. Yang...gets REALLY SNIPPY about this, though to be fair Blake did abandon her with one arm out of ****ing nowhere after her evil stalker boyfriend sliced Yang's arm off. I'd be a little bitter about that too. Blake didn't have to run away like a dumb stupid coward, she could be hear fighting with them. But she ran away. Ruby asks if Yang is still mad at Blake about it and Yang gets sarcastic about it, and Weiss gets annoyed. Yang shouts her down, her eyes doing the angry red mode thing they do, but she realizes it and holds back, leaving the group.

Meanwhile, in Zoo. It's time for more Blake Does Nothing. Sun asks if she's ready...for something, because again the show continues and INSISTS that we don't actually get any context for things happening in Zoo before they actually happen (turns out it's for more recruiting. At like 8 at night, though to be fair Sun mentions later they're specifically targetting the nocturnal districts). She finds a secret note by the chameleon girl who wants to meet up with her in private somewhere secluded. Because that's a good idea. She's also told to come alone and that "I'll find you" which makes it pretty clear the chameleon girl is stalking Blake all the time now. Blake blows Sun off briefly to go "take care of something first" which means she's obviously going to see the chameleon girl.

Aaand back to Yang. She's looking at a photo of team RWBY and having a sad. That's fair, there's some clear connection between Yang and Blake, beyond the fact that Yang lost an arm fighting Blake's idiot boyfriend. Someone knocks on the door and comes in, and it's Weiss. Yang initially suspected Ruby. It being Weiss is interesting, at least. Weiss trying to talk Yang down from...being angry at Blake for justifiable reasons will be a sight to behold.

Weiss proceeds to choose the dialogue option of "say nothing" like three or four times in a row, and Yang just kinda spills her heart out. Weiss doesn't know what it's like to be abandoned. Yang's Mom left, Ruby's mom "left" and probably is just dead, Bigyang was always working. Ruby was a baby so she couldn't even say words. Yang basically lived the ****tiest normal life possible. So having Blake, someone she really cares about, abandon her too just really stung, especially since it was in a moment that she REALLY needed support. Especially so from Blake, given the aforementioned deep caring and also that this is ENTIRELY because of Blake.

Weiss begins her speech about how her life was Also Bad, and once again we see VERY clearly that Weiss' legs just end mid thigh. Sorry to harp on this it just looks really bad. Anyway Weiss brings up some family stuff. When she was ten years old Wiess!Dad outright just told her Mom that he married her purely for her fancy name and money. Just outright. On Weiss's ****ING BIRTHDAY. You're pushing this a little too much guys. This understandably slowly began to tear her family apart, and in ways that are making me feel uncomfortable for personal reasons. Yang apologizes for snapping at her, and Weiss says the actually rather understated point of, they're all suffering from the same problems, it just is different to them each personally. The ways Weiss feels about being alone are different from Yang's but they're still the same idea. And Blake probably has hers too.

Blake is the beloved princess daughter of the mayor and chef of Zoo with a loving Mom and the implied pretty implicit love of the people. She joined the revolution and spent a large amount of time basically just having fun fighting the good fight with a person she generally loved. Then he became nutso and she ran away. I...don't actually think Weiss is right here? Blake has problems, she's super self concious and has difficulty making choices for herself and when she does they're always bad...but feeling alone isn't one of them. There's the obvious idea that her being a cat person makes her feel like an outcast and thus is "alone" in that sense, and that's valid. But I feel like that's more a side issue whereas Yang's ****ed up family and Weiss's even more ****ed up family is the core issue with their lives. Blake's insecurity about being a cat is related to her own general insecurities at life.

Yang then counters with, at it's core, what I just said. Blake's problem isn't that she's alone. She had three really good friends who love her very clearly and dearly, who all did their best to be their for her. But Blake still ran away. Justify it as fear Adam would kill them or not, Blake made a choice to abandon the people who care about her in the time they most needed it, because she WANTED to be alone.

Weiss reasons that Blake ran away because, as I said, Adam hurt one of the people she cares about. Yang gets upset at this, pointing out the reasonable concern that "if you need help please say you do" thing, and then doubles back to mention that...SHE needed Blake too, and she was just left their, alone and down an arm.

Weiss says the only thing they can really do now for her is to be ready to accept her when she comes back. And that's fair, and true, and is a good solution to this. Blake will be back, she just needs to cool down a bit. Yang doubts this. Weiss says that she'll be there for Blake, and "while we're not as close...I'll be there for you too Yang".

I'm gonna say this now instead of waiting for the scene to end. Weiss, you're close to RUBY. You're not close to ANYONE else. You've barely interacted with anyone on this team except Ruby in any way other than negatively. ESPECIALLY with Blake. This feels like it's a really good scene overall, it really is, but it's wounded by the fact that it's WEISS. I like Weiss, I do, but she's the last person I'd expect to actually be this caring and understanding. About anything. I'd trust a cabbage to be more considerate about my feelings than Weiss, based on...basically everything from the entire first three seasons. I knew she grew over season 4, but it doesn't really feel like she's at the point where she should be spouting all this pretty empathic stuff, given the last time we saw Weiss so...basically any sympathy for people was either her getting mad at rich people for being rich ****ers, or for her basically forcing out an apology to Blake about how she's a racist.

I know she's grown. But it doesn't show well. This kind of comes out of nowhere, especially given it takes up almost the entire episode. Some degree of build up to "Weiss is actually nice and understanding now" would of been nice. I should clarify that this isn't something I consider DAMAGINGLY bad, it's just something that stands out as a "hmm, I'd do this differently" moment. It ends with Ruby coming in and seeing if everything is okay, and it is. Yay.

Now back to Blake doing...things?? Maybe???? She's going to meet with the chameleon girl.

Surprisingly literally no one, this is a trap. Blake says they can protect the chameleon girl, and she apologizes. Blake doesn't understand, and proving that the chameleon is capable of acting at least a little, repeats her sorry in a more menacing tone. A bat faunus jumps on Blake from the sky and does enough damage to keep her down gasping in pain and...um. Why? Aura exists. Two other faunus show up and just...kinda allow Blake to stand up for some reason. One of them has weird veins so is probably a jellyfish of some sort.

Oh, no she's a spider. For some reason. She spiderwebs Blake and for some reason Blake, the ninja, who has intense professional training and has aura, gets beaten by these two chuckle****s. The third one doesn't do anything. The bat has the chameleon girl's weapon so he can throw it over to her so she can make a show of taking it out and beating Blake unconcious with it. Blake asks the chameleon girl what the **** is up with her, and she explains that...there is no right or wrong, there are no innocents, kill em all kekeke do what's best for you.

God ****ing damnit this is the worst.

She continues, denouncing both the humans who are racists, and the humans who allow racism to still happen (a fair point but given the rest of this and RT's track record on being really ****ty about this topic in this show, regardless of their acceptance elsewhere, I have no desire to discuss this) and says that, you know what snuffs out hate? Fear.

Fear.

FEAR.

Look, there's a lot to be said about fear and it's controlling factor. Make a nazi afraid so he won't go out and run over a person. Make a business owner afraid that the union will sink his business if he doesn't pay his employees a living wage. There's valid and good reasons for fear. FEAR DOES NOT SOLVE HATE. FEAR IS HATE. They are THE SAME THING. I won't get into this, but 90% of the time you find someone who's VEHEMENTLY hateful against something, you can basically assure yourself that they resemble that remark. It's easier to count the ones who AREN'T. Hate and fear are the same thing, divided only by a willingness to act. And the thing about fear is that once you hit a wall all that fear becomes hate. Hate burns itself out and leaves a damaged broken person who makes more damaged, broken people, but fear makes that hate burn worse once it hits a certain point. This IS NOT CORRECT. It's called the flight or fight instinct for a reason.

Also while some people would argue that fear and hate are not the same, I feel like that's just an issue with my wording. They're two different sides that feed into each other, and a lot of hate comes from fear. It's just how I process these emotions mentally.

The chameleon girl says that she doesn't like hurting people, but it gets results. Again, I'm not having this discussion because there's no reason to, this entire plot tumour of an attempt at world building is All Bad and I have no desire to discuss it. Call me when we're talking about a series that knows how to handle this stuff better overall and then I'll discuss things like this. Blake counters that yeah, violence has clearly put you in a strong position, friend of mine who's holding a whip knife to my neck while I struggle against these boob exencuating spider webs.

I get that Blake's trying to make a point here but I don't care.

Chameleon girl says that killing Blake's family will be for the greater good. Blake obviously does not agree. The chameleon girl is instead going to lock Blake up in a crate and mail her to Adam.

Blake insists this isn't her, and the chameleon girl says that no, it is. And then goes off on a tangent about how she had a crush on Blake and was jealous of Adam. Which is why she's now helping Adam get his claws on Blake so he can probably do all sorts of nasty horrible things to her.

Okay, look. Let's put aside the big reveal that Illia is a lesbian for a second to focus on the fact that she's a terribly written paper doll of a character made by people who don't really understand what they're writing about in the slightest. Okay. The chameleon girl is an idiot. I realize getting caught up in the fervor of doing a murder justice on innocents is a thing, cults are bad okay? But...if you really did actually like her you'd be a bit more hesitant than this. You'd be able to see reason, or at least one would hope. But instead you're just an idiot. A crazy psycho who got jilted at love so you decided the best course of action would to become the servant of the person WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE JILTING. It just doesn't make any sense.

Also, oh boy it's time for "lets introduce a minority character to a show but also make them a bad guy who's craaazy". Remember how I was annoyed that Wukong is literally the embodiment of all the racist things people say about Faunus and how that's just a really bad look? That's this, again. They made the same mistake again. Only somehow worse since Wukong's just a ****ing moron, the chameleon girl is implied to at least have brain cells in her head. I'm not saying that you have to make every character positive, far from it. But you've gotta keep image in mind. My only solace is that Illia is probably more on Fenix and Corvix's side and will do a traitor 180 on Adam the instant it's viable to do so, because why the **** wouldn't she?

ANYWAY, Blake shouts for Wukong to come save the day and he does so. Apparently he was able to keep it in his pants long enough for Blake to have to tell him to step in. I find this inherently unbelievable given Wukong casually crossed half the ****ing globe following her for no real reason beyond shrug.

Oh so no Blake can knock a person out with one punch, which she does to the spider lady. Somehow she's managed to recover from getting stepped on very forcefully so now she remembers she can actually fight.

Wukong asks Blake if she's okay. ****ING WHAT DO YOU THINK DIP****???? That's essentially her response too. So they run off to save Blake family.

We cut to the belladonna abode, where white fang members are shooting up the place. A guard protects BlakeMom, getting shot and presumably killed in the process, so it's up to Mom to shoot the terrorists. MOMS ARE TOUGH!

Why don't people in this universe use aura? Aura is known, widely known, and is simple to activate even if it requires training to keep up. This is a quasi death world. Why would you not take the time to learn how to do aura so you can protect yourself from, you know, some rando with an axe shotgun coming in to rob you?

For some reason all of the gun havers decided to fight Mom, so Dad gets to do all the melee fighting. But then the two named ****s who I don't remember the name of despite writing it like half a paragraph ago show up and are like "MMMM, yes it's time for the chieftan to step down brother yes mmmm" god I hate these actors. Hopefully they're dealt with quickly. Blake dad hulks out (even jutting out claws and everything, which...you know if faunus can just do stuff like that might of been a good way of showing why people fear them just FYI) and runs at them after ripping off all of his armour because big burly man fight time. That's the episode.

And that's it. My thoughts on today's blood letting in the name of dark gods?;

Spoiler: V5C8

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Everything to do with Blake and her adventures a month ago in zoo town are ****ing garbage. When nothing is happening it's RWBY at it's more boring and when stuff is happening it's stupid. It is overall not an enjoyable experience, not helped by the fact that the entire EVERYTHING with Illlia's character is ****ing ridiculous. I'm really sad that BlakeDad is probably going to die (though Mom will live hashtag moms are tough, probably) and if both parents die well then **** me, you've surprised me on that regard at least. Though I see no reason for either of them to die here beyond motivating Blake to go to Mistral, which she should anyway after this event.

That aside the moment with Weiss was good, marred only by the fact that I just don't believe Weiss is at the point where she should be making this empathic a talk down to someone. This is just a personal opinion thing and not something I find entirely negative, just not how I'd do it.

Also as I sort of implied above, I really don't like the time scale because it makes the Blake stuff feel less important.

As an addendum, since I feel it's worth bringing up at least in part: BlakeDad hulking out like a werewolf better pay off. If all that really happened here is that he just got REAL MAD, without any actual physical changes beyond the nails coming out (which is honestly about as threatening as someone putting on nail razors given there's no context as to how sharp a faunus's claws are if they have them) I'm gonna be pissed. You don't have a big burly huge man rip off his shirt and werewolf scream at people if he doesn't do something impressive. Don't waste my time with that ****.

Spoiler: Weiss Empathy

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I would agree with you on it bothering me that Weiss was being so kind and understanding but it not being a problem...if it was with anyone beyond the members of RWBY. Even with Blake, we've gotten little scenes of Weiss interacting and bonding with them in the first three volumes and considering Weiss just escaped from her emotional-deprivation chamber-esque family I don't struggle to believe that she's ready and willing to reach out and be emotional support to her team mates.

Now if it was like...Jaune she was offering council to, I'd be just as dubious because I can see why it makes sense she would..but it would still feel out of place.

Spoiler: Illia

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I have other problems with Illia's character in this chapter, but not for all of the same reasons that you do. I definitely agree that having Sun Wukong appear and basically being a poster child for how most people are supposed to think of the faunus just when you are having the issue of the racism against the Faunus brought up and disputed. I mean, it gave weight to Weiss side of the argument (cause otherwise you just hear about her point of view rather than see it, unlike Blake's) but it was still bad timing for the most part. With Illia and the revelation that she's a lesbian though..its not really the same. No one in RWBY is making the argument that all homosexual people are crazy cult assassins waiting to happen or that Illia's attraction to Blake is why she's so crazy, its always been that Illia's pain and hatred for humanity is guiding her down the same crazy path as Adam with the question being about if Blake's (or anyone else's but primarily Blake's) intervention can stop Illia before that fanatic loyalty to Adam's vision for the White Fang takes her too far. Illia's sexual orientation doesn't really have any bearing on that other than the fact her unrequited lust/love for Blake didn't make matters better, she'd still be with the White Fang and still doing what she's doing except she'd probably be a little less conflicted about killing the Belladonnas and shipping Blake off to Adam.

Know what I mean? Sun stood out as justifying the mistrust of the Faunus just as the show brought the topic up but the reveal on Illia just serves to explain her motivations more...or rather are supposed to. In other words the difference between 'she's a crazy lesbian terrorist-assasin' where her being a lesbian is part of the reason she's a bad guy and 'she's a crazy terrorist-assasin who happens to be a lesbian'. Cause yeah..Illia's motives are well-fleshed out but her actions?

Well...let me open with the Blake being shipped off to Adam thing cause its the easiest. The only way it really makes sense to me, and there's no evidence for or against this that I know of, is if Illia isn't aware that Adam and Blake's relationship was abusive. Cause if she doesn't, which is possible, at least her actions are plausible. She doesn't know about Adam's massive spite-boner and probably thinks Adam wants to either try to sway Blake, get an explanation for why she ran, or punish her for being a traitor to the White Fang. In which case Illia's only lashing out because Blake-senpai never noticed her like she wanted Blake to but doesn't know how terrible her kidnapping will go for Blake if successful, because without knowing what Adam's probably going to do Illia is saving Blake from the slaughter of the Belladona family. Makes sense if a bit messed up.

If she DOES know about the spite-boner..then I have serious questions not only about Illia's goals but her general sanity as well. Maybe that's the point, but it doesn't match up with the story they've been telling with Illia so far where she's an angry but conflicted terrorist who could maybe be redeemed.

Spoiler: White Fang Plot

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Moving past that...yeah the Fear Stops Hate thing. Totally agree with you Zodiac and I didn't really go into it with my own review. My only disagreement is that I don't consider fear and hate to be the same, just connected feelings. Cause yeah, fear can stop people from acting on hate but it also almost ensures that the hate will never go away either. It feeds the hate because it justifies it, why wouldn't you hate something that your afraid of? Sure, you might not ACT on that hate but you might. And it really encapsulates what was so wrong with the White Fang currently. Its all short-term solutions and band-aids and I get that is kind of the point, the White Fang is presented as a villainous group and we're supposed to want to see them stopped. And sure we got a glimpse that there's a long-term plan with our brief scenes with Sienna but then she died. And she seems to have been the sole violent White Fang member who was looking beyond the immediate goal of becoming a force of fear.

And this works because you know..we see things like this happening in the real world and the results of such. And it even works for people on being a compelling story to watch because it touches on an important topic in a different context but..its own comparison falls apart in places. And even when it doesn't, it doesn't mean everyone wants to see a situation like this play out either because its uncomfortable or not entertaining because you can look at it from the outside and say 'yeah, the White Fang are being stupid' but you can also see the exact same thing happening with real groups and it stops being entertaining to watch which is a problem because..RWBY is entertainment so it has to present itself in a manner that you want to watch it and see how its resolved. And RWBY doesn't quite hit the right notes to make it entertaining and engaging in part because...the White Fang are not the main story. There's a series all on its own that could be written about the White Fang that could be fun and engaging, but as a side story where it doesn't get the majority of screen time it doesn't have the presence or weight that it needs.

Spoiler: Menagerie

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I'm still happy with this development with the Zoo plot because...yeah it was a problem that Menagerie was isolated both in the world and in the plot so its difficult to care about what's happening there because of how little impact it has everywhere else, but more importantly because nothing actually seemed to be happening. We didn't even have any indication that Blake would be leaving Menagerie at any point to meet up with the rest of her team. It almost felt like two completely different shows with very little connecting them but one show had no progress.

Now it feels like something is happening in the Menagerie plot! It feels like a given that Blake will be back with her team by the end of the volume and thus it didn't matter what happened in Menagerie but now things are happening which could have consequences on that. If Ghira and Khali die, what sort of state will Blake be in when she gets to Haven? Will she end up there of her own accord or will she be captured again and mailed there? What will happen to Sun in this attack? Now things are happening in Menagerie that are not only important to its own story but have consequences in the main story as well and that's a step up.

Originally Posted by Reddish Mage

Actually, now I recall Blake and Ghira both describe Blake's childhood as among the White Fang rather than as the daughter of the chief in Menagerie. That's a significantly more appropriate childhood.

Ghira's White Fang was supposedly the warmer fuzzier kind, but confrontational protests to fill your day is much different than living a lux life distant for all that.

Also, we know Blake stayed on with the White Fang after Ghira got out and got a big house.

This is true. I'm not sure where people were getting the idea that Blake's life was easy growing up just because she was Blake and Ghira's daughter.

The implication has always been that those two were good parents, which we see, but not only were they busy doing White Fang things for as long as Blake can remember but Blake was with them as well. Yeah, Blake's backstory is not as bad people thought it was and her experience with Faunus prejudice seems like its second hand for the most part, but that doesn't mean it was easy or stressful. The only shot we have of Blake when she's young is as a dirty protestor and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Ghira didn't become the leader of Menagerie until after he stepped down from the White Fang.

**LaZodiac** · 2017-12-12, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)

The idea that Illia doesn't know about Adam's hate-**** for Blake because the fox twins are lying to her as part of their big "stab Adam in the back the instant it becomes a good idea to do so" plan is not something I thought of, and would explain some of her actions better.

**Callos_DeTerran** · 2017-12-12, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by LaZodiac

The idea that Illia doesn't know about Adam's hate-**** for Blake because the fox twins are lying to her as part of their big "stab Adam in the back the instant it becomes a good idea to do so" plan is not something I thought of, and would explain some of her actions better.

I don't even think that the Fox Twins need to be lying to her about it honestly. From the first scene we've had with the fox twins, I got the impression that Illia seems to be stationed in the Menagerie branch of the White Fang and this may have happened before Blake escaped from the Fang.

If that's the case, Illia might not be aware of Adam's descent into complete and utter nuttery (as opposed to regular nuttery) let alone about his hate-**** for Blake and is encouraging people to join under the leadership of a guy she doesn't realize has gone off the deep end some time ago.

It doesn't excuse her actions but it would explain it rather nicely.

**Reddish Mage** · 2017-12-12, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran

I don't even think that the Fox Twins need to be lying to her about it honestly. From the first scene we've had with the fox twins, I got the impression that Illia seems to be stationed in the Menagerie branch of the White Fang and this may have happened before Blake escaped from the Fang.

If that's the case, Illia might not be aware of Adam's descent into complete and utter nuttery (as opposed to regular nuttery) let alone about his hate-**** for Blake and is encouraging people to join under the leadership of a guy she doesn't realize has gone off the deep end some time ago.

It doesn't excuse her actions but it would explain it rather nicely.

Illia may not know the extent of Adam's hate on Blake, but she knows enough. She apparently knows Adam and Blake very well. She knows Adam is pissed over Blake leaving and that Blake does not want to be near him.

So maybe she doesn't know that Adam current goal in life is getting Blake in front of him while he cuts up her family and friends into pieces. She at least knows Adam would like to express his anger to Blake in ways she is not going to want to hear.

Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran

Spoiler: Weiss Empathy

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I would agree with you on it bothering me that Weiss was being so kind and understanding but it not being a problem...if it was with anyone beyond the members of RWBY.

For what its worth I think it is quite nice for Weiss to take this turn now. Weiss hasn't shown empathy before to her friends outside of Ruby, but there are other things in the background to suggest RWBY and JNPR got along really well.

The commentary has been pointing out these multiple small touches of how well RWBY work together and are great friends with JNPR since volume 2. Weiss may not have been able to have such a scene before because she wouldn't let herself have it, but all of RWBY JNPR SSSN knew each other well would speak about each other proving they had intimate knowledge from off-camera interactions.

So Weiss may yet have such a scene with Juane. Maybe she should have such a scene...

Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran

Spoiler: Illia

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I have other problems with Illia's character in this chapter, but not for all of the same reasons that you do. I definitely agree that having Sun Wukong appear and basically being a poster child for how most people are supposed to think of the faunus just when you are having the issue of the racism against the Faunus brought up and disputed...

you can look at it from the outside and say 'yeah, the White Fang are being stupid' but you can also see the exact same thing happening with real groups and it stops being entertaining to watch which is a problem because..RWBY is entertainment so it has to present itself in a manner that you want to watch it and see how its resolved. And RWBY doesn't quite hit the right notes to make it entertaining and engaging in part because...the White Fang are not the main story. There's a series all on its own that could be written about the White Fang that could be fun and engaging, but as a side story where it doesn't get the majority of screen time it doesn't have the presence or weight that it needs.

Compare the White Fang to other terrorist organizations in most TV shows and movies. They actually get a fairly detailed look by those standards.

Sienna Khan herself had an interesting perspective they really didn't detail, as she approved of violence "where violence is due" but disapproved of Adam's actions. Real life terrorists come in various flavors in regards to what they want to do and what goals they want to accomplish, often times in fiction it all gets mushed into villains willing to go to any length for a cause that isn't really that understandable or important.

Its quite clear that the White Fang's goals are important to the show, because they are important to Blake, important to her family, and they are laser focused on taking ~~down~~ over the White Fang to change it back into a positive force.

Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran

Spoiler: Menagerie

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Now it feels like something is happening in the Menagerie plot! It feels like a given that Blake will be back with her team by the end of the volume and thus it didn't matter what happened in Menagerie but now things are happening which could have consequences on that. If Ghira and Khali die, what sort of state will Blake be in when she gets to Haven? Will she end up there of her own accord or will she be captured again and mailed there? What will happen to Sun in this attack? Now things are happening in Menagerie that are not only important to its own story but have consequences in the main story as well and that's a step up.

Spoiler: S5E9

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Form where I am looking it looks like Ghira and Khali are going to get through this just fine. Its pretty unthinkable Ghira will die fighting alongside Sun just after Ghira basically dared him to show his stuff against some minor characters. Khali is off-camera but I doubt seriously they would slip in a kill here to break up the narrative. Blake's arc is one of recovery and a death in the family now isn't something she can shake off.

**Calemyr** · 2017-12-13, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)

I don't think Weiss being empathetic is really that big of a surprise, to be honest. She'd been slowly warming up to the rest of the team over the first three volumes, to the point that she unquestioningly followed Ruby's plan to get to Pyrrha at the end with nothing but a "You always do." reaction to her claiming to have a plan. She acted stand-offish, but did nice things for the rest (or tried to, in the case of buying everyone's ramen).

And then she lost them. For what seemed likely to be forever. She did NOT go to Mistral to meet up with Ruby like Yang did, she did so to find Winter. The thought that she'd ever see her friends again wasn't even a consideration, much less whether they'd still be friends (Atlas not being high on the PR charts these days). Before, she'd simply been alone, now she was actually lonely. Before she'd been friendless, now she'd had her friends taken from her. And, unlike with Blake, this wasn't a case of abandonment. Her father had forcibly separated her from them.

And then she found them, and a lot of the barriers she'd put up before were just no longer there anymore. Pre-Volume 5 Weiss would never have given anyone but Winter a full-body hug like she gave Yang. Pre-Volume 5 Weiss would never have blushed happily at being called "Ice Queen". These people are no longer the fools foisted on her by fate: the idiot, the hothead, the apologist. These are her friends, and she's found that means something.

Hopefully that makes sense. I'm not operating on a lot of sleep right now.

**Lemmy** · 2017-12-14, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)

Heh... They released a Non-Descriptive-Winter-Holiday RWBY Chibi Special!

**Reddish Mage** · 2017-12-14, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Lemmy

Heh... They released a Non-Descriptive-Winter-Holiday RWBY Chibi Special!

and don't forget that they also droped another holiday special "A Slip Through Time and Space Pt 2."

**Lemmy** · 2017-12-14, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Reddish Mage

and don't forget that they also droped another holiday special "A Slip Through Time and Space Pt 2."

Wait... That was a holiday special?

**Reddish Mage** · 2017-12-14, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Lemmy

Wait... That was a holiday special?

What did you think all the merch was produced for?

**Ramza00** · 2017-12-16, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)

It's RWBY Day!

RWBY: Volume 5, Chapter 10: True Colors is now on Rooster Teeth website for paying subscribers

http://www.roosterteeth.com/episode/...-10saoiju23lkj

And RWBY: Volume 5, Chapter 9: A Perfect Storm is now out for free on Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUvI77URqA0

------

So question, does Qrow drink in order to try to turn off his semblance. Note this does not actually turn it off but it makes it less likely to activate? But if Qrow gets too drunk then he is just a drunk huntsman.

**Rater202** · 2017-12-16, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)

Spoiler: Volume 5 Chapter 10

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Saw spoilers on it while checking things... So, the entire population of Menagerie is going to go help Haven... So, basically, the entire county will be depopulated for an indeterminate amount of time.

And this was a month ago...

...Two days until the attack as of Episode 9...

...I'm calling it now: The last few episodes of the season are going to be the Attack on Haven, and just when it seems that all is lost the people of Menagerie are gonna come running in with Blake at the forfront.

I'm also calling that Yang is going to be fighting Adam and Blake is going to charge in and be the Big Damn Hero.

Just, complete inversion of the Fall of Beacon: The White Fang are driven off without the place collapsing completely and the Fellowship is reunited instead of being broken.

**Ramza00** · 2017-12-16, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Reddish Mage

Actually, now I recall Blake and Ghira both describe Blake's childhood as among the White Fang rather than as the daughter of the chief in Menagerie. That's a significantly more appropriate childhood.

Ghira's White Fang was supposedly the warmer fuzzier kind, but confrontational protests to fill your day is much different than living a lux life distant for all that.

Also, we know Blake stayed on with the White Fang after Ghira got out and got a big house.

Zoo / Menagerie does not make sense. Either important information that would explain the chracters and give them context has not been told to the audience, or the writters are not thinking this through.

So far we know.

80 years ago there was the Great War. The Great War is also the same as the Colour War for afterwards everyone as an act of cultural unity started naming their kids after colours.

Well the Great War did two things as in relations to Zoo. 1) They gave the Faunus Menagerie 2) Faunus were also allowed to live in the 4 kingdoms and supposedly have equal rights.

2 did not really happened though, and some people felt betrayed and somehow the Faunus Right's Revolution occured. We know nothing about what really happened besides A) Battle of Fort Castle happens in the 3rd year and it is more or less the end of the war for it was such a big turning point. B) The FRR supposedly occurred because humans wanted the Faunus to go away and they just expected all the Faunus to go to Zoo.

The WHite Fang is created after the FRR and it is implied that Ghira was the first leader though we can't say that for sure. The White Fang of Ghirra did protests and not terrorists acts. 5 years before the series Ghirra steps down from the white fang and appoints Sienna (tiger lady) to be his successor.

----

So I just summarized what we know about Faunus and Zoo history. Was Ghirra in charge of the White Fang and leading them in the 4 kingdoms when he was also Chief of Zoo? Or was he appointed / became chief of Zoo after he step down from the white fang? What is the connections of White Fang with Zoo, how closely or loosely is their connection? Was there other family members of the Belladonnas that are still alive / or are recently dead? Why did Ghira step down 5 years ago? Could it because he was on the out with the Zoo family, but someone in Zoo died so he returned to the family in order to rule, etc, etc we really do not know much / and or the writers of RWBY haven't thought this out and created a back story and are sticking with it.

**Malak'ai** · 2017-12-16, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Ramza00

So I just summarized what we know about Faunus and Zoo history. Was Ghirra in charge of the White Fang and leading them in the 4 kingdoms when he was also Chief of Zoo? Or was he appointed / became chief of Zoo after he step down from the white fang? What is the connections of White Fang with Zoo, how closely or loosely is their connection? Was there other family members of the Belladonnas that are still alive / or are recently dead? Why did Ghira step down 5 years ago? Could it because he was on the out with the Zoo family, but someone in Zoo died so he returned to the family in order to rule, etc, etc we really do not know much / and or the writers of RWBY haven't thought this out and created a back story and are sticking with it.

In V4C5 the Corsic Albain(sp?) said that Ghira stepped down as High Leader of the White Fang and became the Chieftain of Menagrie. In V5C3 Ghira explains that he stepped down as High Leader because of pressure, both from within the White Fang and without, because they didn't seem to be making any progress in their mission.

**Ramza00** · 2017-12-16, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Malak'ai

In V4C5 the Corsic Albain(sp?) said that Ghira stepped down as High Leader of the White Fang and became the Chieftain of Menagrie. In V5C3 Ghira explains that he stepped down as High Leader because of pressure, both from within the White Fang and without, because they didn't seem to be making any progress in their mission.

So who was in charge of Zoo prior to Ghira? Did Ghira have a blood relation to the previous chieftain or not? Was there an election, how did White Fang relate to Zoo, etc. Like I said before either the audience is missing information, or the writters have not thought it through. Who was in charge of Zoo for 75 years?

If Ghira was only chief for 5 years and has no monarchy / connection to who ran zoo for 75 years, that makes Blake a princess not really for she kind of run away from Dad probably roughly that same time.

**Future Sword** · 2017-12-16, 11:42 PM (ISO 8601)

So, I think I just missed it, but where was it confirmed that Blake's stuff is a flashback?

**Reddish Mage** · 2017-12-16, 11:56 PM (ISO 8601)

I really think the origin of the White Fang, the politics of Menagerie, and Ghira’s relatives are just not relevant enough to the plot to deserve exposition. This isn’t a story about political intrigue or intricacies.

You might argue that there is something to engaging in elaborate world-building, in making the world seem wider than just RWBY and their mission. Perhaps something is lost in Vale by having it literally ruled by a council of shadow people. Perhaps details like Ghira’s political duties are worth mentioning and thinking about, or when the White Fang was started and its relationship with Menagerie.

However, RWBY has never taken that approach and isn’t starting now. Its left for us to speculate what’s what.

I’d go for the minimalist approach: Appears Ghira is chieftain with no relevant blood relationship to past chieftains. Blake is his daughter which confers no official status but she is able to move a crowd. Blake might also be considered to be speaking in place of her father.

Anyway on to questions on the present episode.

Spoiler: V5E10 and speculation

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So Raven just went to have a wholly fruitless discussion with Leo. I wonder if she will show up to talk to Qrow at all?

From Ruby’s discussion with Qrow and Ozpin, its clear that Ozpin is keeping a lot from girls. Not just the location of the relic (which seems like the sort of thing you should keep to need to know), but the fact that they expect Leo to be collaborating with Cinder. If the discussion with the girls does not turn out to be full disclosure there should be problems with Yang down the line. I am hoping there is something akin to a serious full-disclosure coming up.

Everything is being set for a big finale at Haven. The idea of a complete reunification and victory is in keeping with the way we’ve seen the series go with the exception of the bloodletting in Season 3. I think its better if Raven’s decision to go it on her own raises problems for team Ozpincar and the ensuing 5(!)-way battle will result in a victory for the good guys, but a mixed one with Cinder getting something face saving. After literally losing half her face last time, Cinder needs something or Watts is just going to replace her as the new face of nasty for Season 6. I think the team is set to try to get into Atlas after this.

We have literally nothing set up for Vacuo, and everyone we know in the series is located in Atlas. I am not sure what will cause the urgency, perhaps Lionheart will turn and spill the beans on Salems plans (although its stupid Watts or Salem will fill him in on them), or perhaps something will happen with Atlas that draws the team there. I think all of this will happen as we close Season 5.

Alternatively, we get that happy ending for Season 5, with a complete victory for re-united RWBY and associates, but it seems a bit premature to wrap everything up nicely in a bow.

**LaZodiac** · 2017-12-17, 12:27 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Future Sword

So, I think I just missed it, but where was it confirmed that Blake's stuff is a flashback?

Forget the episode but in one of the Ruby said they had a month to go until X, and in that same episode Blake said they have two months to go until the same X as Ruby mentioned.

Also sorry for falling a bit behind on this. Life's been dumb.

**Zmeoaice** · 2017-12-17, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)

Spoiler

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THEY KILLED GIANT FOX EARED GUY NOOOOOO

Anyhow, it seems Adam has actually succeeded in gaining respect for faunus. By creating a force so awful humans and faunus have no choice to work together.

**Mechalich** · 2017-12-17, 08:51 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Reddish Mage

Spoiler: V5E10 and speculation

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So Raven just went to have a wholly fruitless discussion with Leo. I wonder if she will show up to talk to Qrow at all?

From Ruby’s discussion with Qrow and Ozpin, its clear that Ozpin is keeping a lot from girls. Not just the location of the relic (which seems like the sort of thing you should keep to need to know), but the fact that they expect Leo to be collaborating with Cinder. If the discussion with the girls does not turn out to be full disclosure there should be problems with Yang down the line. I am hoping there is something akin to a serious full-disclosure coming up.

Everything is being set for a big finale at Haven. The idea of a complete reunification and victory is in keeping with the way we’ve seen the series go with the exception of the bloodletting in Season 3. I think its better if Raven’s decision to go it on her own raises problems for team Ozpincar and the ensuing 5(!)-way battle will result in a victory for the good guys, but a mixed one with Cinder getting something face saving. After literally losing half her face last time, Cinder needs something or Watts is just going to replace her as the new face of nasty for Season 6. I think the team is set to try to get into Atlas after this.

We have literally nothing set up for Vacuo, and everyone we know in the series is located in Atlas. I am not sure what will cause the urgency, perhaps Lionheart will turn and spill the beans on Salems plans (although its stupid Watts or Salem will fill him in on them), or perhaps something will happen with Atlas that draws the team there. I think all of this will happen as we close Season 5.

Alternatively, we get that happy ending for Season 5, with a complete victory for re-united RWBY and associates, but it seems a bit premature to wrap everything up nicely in a bow.

Spoiler: V5E10

Show

Have to agree that we're going to get a big and massively confusing battle at Haven before the season ends. Going to Atlas next also makes sense since they teased Watts and his 'machines' as a thing.

I suspect that Haven will be damaged but survive when the faunus cavalry swoop in to save the day. Lionheart will almost certainly die either pathetically or potentially in some face saving final sacrifice. Cinder will get the Relic but not the Maiden (with the possibility of Watts spending next season trying to rig up some sort of machine interface so that Salem can use the relic anyway). I think the big solution here, beyond a reunion of Team RWBY, is that the White Fang are going to stop being a going concern and that whole plotline is going to wrap up. That means Adam Taurus is going to die - he's not all that interesting anyway beyond a final encounter allowing Blake/Ilia/Yang to work out issues in beating him.

The real question, to me, is how many other deaths are likely. Top candidates include both Ilia and Raven as noble sacrifices for their friends/family/greater good, though I suspect it will be only one of the two of them. Personally I'd rather it be Raven who dies since she's uninteresting and also another veteran capable of combat-blocking the younger heroes (and her semblance is dangerously scenario-breaking in the way teleportation always is). Qrow is possible as a death as well, though I suspect an injury that takes him out of the field - and potentially leaves him in charge of rebuilding Haven Academy - to be more likely. As for villains beyond Adam, it is certainly possible to kill Emerald or Mercury at any time, especially Mercury who doesn't have the utility Emerald's semblance provides her, but unless they're setting Cinder up for a 'choose your power over your subordinates' well-being moment' I don't actually think that will happen.

**Delicious Taffy** · 2017-12-18, 04:58 AM (ISO 8601)

I feel like nothing has happened, this season, even though I definitely watched a bunch of things happen. I also get the vague idea that I liked the things, probably? Maybe there are just too many things to cover and not enough time in an episode. Season 6 would do well to narrow the focus and reduce the number of events happening at any given time.

**Reddish Mage** · 2017-12-18, 10:30 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Delicious Taffy

I feel like nothing has happened, this season, even though I definitely watched a bunch of things happen. I also get the vague idea that I liked the things, probably? Maybe there are just too many things to cover and not enough time in an episode. Season 6 would do well to narrow the focus and reduce the number of events happening at any given time.

Given that the girls are coming together again a more straight-forward plot is almost assured.

However, now is an odd time to come out with the comment “nothing happened.” If this was episode 6 or even 8 I would understand the sentiment, but things have been happening for the last couple of episodes, particularly the last two.

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