Breaking D&D (Funny, Glitches, and Loopholes)

[PhoenixPhyre]

I will have to recheck the PHB when I get home but the roll20 copy of the spell does not imply only in one direction but implied that everything around you is pushed 10 ft away (barring failed save).

Thanks for the input. Hopefully, I never find myself in this situation as a player or DM (being engulfed just sucks) but do like to get a general consensus on odd stuff like this.

IIRC, the spell (or whichever spell he meant to name) does project force in all directions, it's just only one direction per creature. So, RAW, it would push the gelatinous cube 10 feet in whichever the direction was from you to the center of the cube. If it actually came up, and I had to go by RAW, I'd let the player choose which direction to shove the cube and say the caster made a 5-foot step within the cube beforehand or something.

For Thunderwave the caster is the origin of the cube, but not the center of it. It is not a power that extends from the caster in all directions. The caster is on one face of the cube and it projects outward in a single direction. https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/04/13...ve-spell-cube/

Mellack is correct here. Thunderwave (there's a spell with a similar name but a different area) is a close blast not a close burst (to borrow 4e's terminology). It projects outward in a 15-foot cube that has one face adjacent to the caster, not with its center on the caster. One key difference--the caster isn't affected unless they choose to center it above them, facing downward (why one would do that...not sure, even if that's allowed). A close blast (radiating outward in all directions from the caster) would affect the caster unless the spell specifically says otherwise.

In this case, I'd push the cube away, potentially freeing the caster (I'm AFB, but I seem to remember that push affects are specifically called out as being able to free the caster) just as if you thunderwaved a grappler away.

[Bahamut7]

Mellack is correct here. Thunderwave (there's a spell with a similar name but a different area) is a close blast not a close burst (to borrow 4e's terminology). It projects outward in a 15-foot cube that has one face adjacent to the caster, not with its center on the caster. One key difference--the caster isn't affected unless they choose to center it above them, facing downward (why one would do that...not sure, even if that's allowed). A close blast (radiating outward in all directions from the caster) would affect the caster unless the spell specifically says otherwise.

In this case, I'd push the cube away, potentially freeing the caster (I'm AFB, but I seem to remember that push affects are specifically called out as being able to free the caster) just as if you thunderwaved a grappler away.

Ok, being a blast makes sense for the sage advice, it still seems like a burst to me but that's the fun of table top. I would probably run it by my group and let them vote on how they want to play it if it came up, but that is homebrew and there for the sake of this thread, the trick would not work.

[JackPhoenix]

Mellack is correct here. Thunderwave (there's a spell with a similar name but a different area) is a close blast not a close burst (to borrow 4e's terminology). It projects outward in a 15-foot cube that has one face adjacent to the caster, not with its center on the caster. One key difference--the caster isn't affected unless they choose to center it above them, facing downward (why one would do that...not sure, even if that's allowed). A close blast (radiating outward in all directions from the caster) would affect the caster unless the spell specifically says otherwise.

In this case, I'd push the cube away, potentially freeing the caster (I'm AFB, but I seem to remember that push affects are specifically called out as being able to free the caster) just as if you thunderwaved a grappler away.

Iterestingly enough, if you're surrounded by enemies and aim the Thunderwave directly above you, they get thrown 10' in the air, take extra 1d6 damage upon landing, and fall prone.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Ok, being a blast makes sense for the sage advice, it still seems like a burst to me but that's the fun of table top. I would probably run it by my group and let them vote on how they want to play it if it came up, but that is homebrew and there for the sake of this thread, the trick would not work.

You can make it a burst-like effect (center it at your feet, pointing up) at the cost of possibly taking the damage yourself. It also reduces the extent to 7.5 feet on either side of you, but :shrug:

Iterestingly enough, if you're surrounded by enemies and aim the Thunderwave directly above you, they get thrown 10' in the air, take extra 1d6 damage upon landing, and fall prone.

If you aim it straight up starting at your head, then they have to be Large or bigger (because it starts 5' up). If you aim it straight up starting at your feet, then you are affected as well. Trade-offs, trade-offs...

[Finger6842]

Detail: Simulacrum isn't a monster Statistic. It is a duplicate of the creature (Character or Monster), then if you duplicate a monster with innate spellcasting (Ok, It doesn't require spellbook). Monsters doesn't require spellbooks.
But, If you is duplicating a character must follow normal rules of casting (Require time, spellbook and prepare spells previously).

Lucas, your argument doesn't pass the common sense test. What EXACTLY would be the purpose of a Wizard Simulacrum that can't cast spells? They are very expensive to create. I agree they can't learn new spells but if the original has alreayd known/prepared spells then the copy does as well.

[NecessaryWeevil]

If (for reasons that have yet to be explained) a simulacrum forgets all of its creator's prepared spells, does it forget other knowledge as well? Its name? Where it lives? How to tie its shoes? Who all these angry-looking people with swords are, and which ones are allies and which enemies?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Lucas, your argument doesn't pass the common sense test. What EXACTLY would be the purpose of a Wizard Simulacrum that can't cast spells?

Yes, what possible use would a rich, prominent figure have for someone who could pass for them, for anything from a boring formal dinner to an exciting assassination attempt?

[JackPhoenix]

If you aim it straight up starting at your head, then they have to be Large or bigger (because it starts 5' up). If you aim it straight up starting at your feet, then you are affected as well. Trade-offs, trade-offs...

Really depends on game, I suppose. In TotM style game, where you don't care that much about the grid, it should be possible to crouch and hit the surrounding enemies from waist up. Possibly even in grid-using game, if you could argue that your crouching put you under the 5' clearance (I remember when back in 3.5e days, my players triggered a trap. Blade swished through the corridor at 5' height. "Everyone roll dex save, take x damage"... "But my character is only 4'7" (minimum possible height for an elf, and yes, he rolled it, and had it written on the sheet)!" "All right... so, everyone takes x damage, except [the elf], who only gets a new haircut."

[Naanomi]

Yes, what possible use would a rich, prominent figure have for someone who could pass for them, for anything from a boring formal dinner to an exciting assassination attempt?

Seems like something that magic a little less than 12 hours, a 7th level spell slot, and 1,500g could solve; at least for someone who has access to all of those things

[PhoenixPhyre]

Really depends on game, I suppose. In TotM style game, where you don't care that much about the grid, it should be possible to crouch and hit the surrounding enemies from waist up. Possibly even in grid-using game, if you could argue that your crouching put you under the 5' clearance (I remember when back in 3.5e days, my players triggered a trap. Blade swished through the corridor at 5' height. "Everyone roll dex save, take x damage"... "But my character is only 4'7" (minimum possible height for an elf, and yes, he rolled it, and had it written on the sheet)!" "All right... so, everyone takes x damage, except [the elf], who only gets a new haircut."

I'd be inclined to give this to the player, once or twice. If it becomes a go-to tactic I'll talk to them about it, same as with any other one-note tactic. Certainly if they first go prone (which you can do without spending a full action), but then they're prone with all the advantages and disadvantages of that status.

[Renduaz]

I broke D&D to chips several times now. Just name your wish - Total invincibility for 10 rounds with full spellcasting? Time-Travel? Unlimited telepathic bond? Living as God in your own eternally protected infinite plane with immortality? Generating more energy than a modern power plant in minutes? Leveling entire cities to dust or destroying the universe? Instantly killing or trapping something without even affording it a saving throw? Infinite Gold? Take your pick, here's all the published material so far, some of which contain the aforementioned things:

Cantrips v1


Cantrips v2


The Adventurer's Guide to Abusing Monsters

Spell combos and useful info

Forcecage Invincibility


A Wizard with something close to 5% of even being hit and who can basically save and resist almost anything

Environmental Warfare and Utility

The energy generator

Tenser's Skystrider

Only two of the things I've listed are missing from these links, the trap and the insta-killer ( Although credit to someone who I've talked with for a while for actually inventing the first idea and we ironed it out together ), I'll explain them rather quickly to spare time:

Insta-Trap - You need a Forcecage and a Wish for Mordekainen's Private Sanctum ( A simulacrum will even allow you to do both at the same turn ). Begin by casting a Wished Private Sanctum in the form of a cube which, being perhaps as much as a few centimeters larger, will enclose the Forcecage externally once it is cast. Proceed to cast the Forcecage itself within that area. Your target is now unable to use it's Charisma saving throw in order to teleport outside of the cage, since the Private Sanctum layer is preventing anything from teleporting into or out of it's area. Anything without Dispel Magic or Antimagic Field is currently locked for an hour irrevocably without a saving throw.

In order to make it completely foolproof against even Dispels ( Against the Sanctum from within the cage itself ) or Antimagic Field ( Against both Sanctum and Cage ), A final component, whether through another party member or minion or your/Simulacrum's remaining Wish, is the Silence spell. For this, begin with creating the Silence ( So that it is already within the future Forcecage, rather than being cast into it's barrier ) on an enemy, followed shortly by the Cage and Sanctum, and maintain concentration for 10 minutes.

Insta-Killer - Create a Demiplane. Place as many damaging Symbols/Glyphs of Warding as humanly possible right near the doorstep. Set it to trigger when the creature or creatures of your choice are within 60 feet of those glyphs. Fast forward to an encounter. Erect a Wall of Stone ( or not, if you already have a smooth vertical surface ) or place something, etc.. directly behind your target, then ( With a Simulacrum or otherwise ) cast the Demiplane door on that wall right behind him. He is now within 60 feet of a hundred glyphs and his life is forfeit. If your DM is mentally challenged and doesn't understand what "feet" as a 3rd-dimensional measurement unit means ( Protip: If you can put one foot in front of the other and enter a Demiplane doorway, then by definition the floor of that Demiplane is within tha given number of feet from you, and if it weren't, then you would never be able to enter it as a 3-dimensional creature ), then it's slightly more timely, but that idiocy can still be accommodated.

If your target is Medium, do the following - You'll need two walls of Stone. ( Although there are many other ways to shape surfaces, this is just the simplest ). If you want it all done on a single turn, use Time Stop ( Breaks when it affects a creature ). With Time Stop in motion, create the first wall behind a target, create the Demiplane door on it, And then cast Wall of Stone again ( Nothing says that a Demiplane's door requires a surface to persist, only that it must be cast on one to appear, but if we are dealing with the same mentally challenged individual, just have your Simulacrum do this or the next party member in order after cutting off Time Stop ) except this time, making it cut through the target's space. When that happens, you get to choose which side of the wall he gets pushed 5 feet away from, no saving throw or anything. You guessed it, you're gonna push him straight into the doorway to the Demiplane present right behind him on the first Wall of Stone.

If the target is larger, and if a DM still doesn't know the definition of feet, then all you need to do in the course of a fight is get a single leg, finger or any other part of said creature through the perfectly awaiting doorway, in order for him to be directly on the glyphs and therefore obliterated by all accounts.

[Albert_Newton]

No,

The Simulacrum is just another creature and It shares same statistic of the original, but, without equipaments (No Spellbook) and 1/2 hp. Absolutely nothing in the spell description says that The Simulacrum has previouly any prepared spells or active spells at the moment of casting.
The Simulacrum has 0 spells know (No Spellbook) and cannot prepare it. It must follow normal rules of Wizard Casting (It requires spell preparation and spellbook).


"It is just a new Wizard without a spellbook. It can't cast spells, only cantrips"

A wizard only needs a spellbook to prepare new spells; it doesn't need a spellbook to cast the spells it has prepared.

[Albert_Newton]

If you managed to get 3 strength, jumping would push you 1 foot into the earth! (jump height = 3 + str mod feet, 3 - 4 = -1!) And that's how to get to the centre of the earth without special equipment...
And here is how to kill the Tarrasque with a 5th level spell slot and someone who can cast "Acid Splash":

"Slimy Doom," one of the example Contagions, does this:
Slimy Doom: The creature begins to bleed uncontrollably. The creature has disadvantage on Constitution checks and Constitution saving throws. In addition, whenever the creature takes damage, it is stunned until the end of its next turn.
You put slimy doom on the tarrasque, and survive until you can deal damage to it. Then, it is stunned. When you are stunned:
•A stunned creature is incapacitated (can't take actions or reactions), can’t move, and can speak only falteringly.
•The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
•Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.
You know what that means? Specifically, the automatic failing of dexterity saving throws? It means that, each round, you cast "Acid Splash" on the Tarrasque and each round it automatically fails the saving throw, so it is stunned again! AND, it also has disadvantage on the saving throws to end Slimy Doom (check above) and so you will probably have 7 days to kill a Tarrasque using acid splash and 1 contagion. And that's something worth bragging about.

Note Bene (note well in Elvish):
I am not responsible for the results of any rule-misusing actions taken as a result of this thread, unless those results are positive.

[Kuulvheysoon]

If you managed to get 3 strength, jumping would push you 1 foot into the earth! (jump height = 3 + str mod feet, 3 - 4 = -1!) And that's how to get to the centre of the earth without special equipment...
And here is how to kill the Tarrasque with a 5th level spell slot and someone who can cast "Acid Splash":

"Slimy Doom," one of the example Contagions, does this:
Slimy Doom: The creature begins to bleed uncontrollably. The creature has disadvantage on Constitution checks and Constitution saving throws. In addition, whenever the creature takes damage, it is stunned until the end of its next turn.
You put slimy doom on the tarrasque, and survive until you can deal damage to it. Then, it is stunned. When you are stunned:
•A stunned creature is incapacitated (can't take actions or reactions), can’t move, and can speak only falteringly.
•The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
•Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.
You know what that means? Specifically, the automatic failing of dexterity saving throws? It means that, each round, you cast "Acid Splash" on the Tarrasque and each round it automatically fails the saving throw, so it is stunned again! AND, it also has disadvantage on the saving throws to end Slimy Doom (check above) and so you will probably have 7 days to kill a Tarrasque using acid splash and 1 contagion. And that's something worth bragging about.

Note Bene (note well in Elvish):
I am not responsible for the results of any rule-misusing actions taken as a result of this thread, unless those results are positive.

Doesn't work that way. JC has confirmed in tweets (and maybe Sage Advice?) that the target of contagion needs to fail all three saves before the disease takes effect.

[No brains]

Doesn't work that way. JC has confirmed in tweets (and maybe Sage Advice?) that the target of contagion needs to fail all three saves before the disease takes effect.

Also with +10 to con saves and 3 legendary resistances, getting the tarrasque infected is going to take more than one spell slot. Slimy doom is a slimy move, but it's not quite that slick.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

I can't wait to abuse all the new spells in Xanthars!

[ParadoxiusTime]

9 simple steps to create a weapon to end the universe.
1. Get a fifth level wizard.
2. Obtain about 120,600gp of diamond dust and incense.
3. Have the wizard have the spells "Glyph of warding" and "enlarge/reduce".
4. Have the wizard cast "Glyph of warding" with the spell storing option.
5. Make the spell stores be "enlarge/reduse" set to enlarge mode.
6. Set the trigger to activate only after a special password is said with intent to activate the glyphs. (Make the trigger whatever you want, It works best if the activator/victim is willing)
7. Repeat the spell over the minimum period of 200 days to cast the spell up to 603 times. The first day you can cast of 6 times because proceeding days you can only regain spell slots and abilities from 1 long rest.
8. Once you have the spell cast on relatively the same spot, preferably outside, 603 times or more, activate them and send the willing participant to activate the glyphs.
9. Watch as the participant doubles in size 603 time becoming so large that they would be bigger than the observable universe, in fact they would be larger than the number of atoms in the universe if each was an observable universe. Reaching the entire size in only 6 seconds. Simply put you end the entirety of the universe.

Notes- whoever you use as the "willing participant" will die, unless they can survive literally touching every dangerous thing in the universe. There size in multiplied by 2^603, but their mass is multiplied by 8^603 so not only would they expand massively but soon after they would collapse into themselves. If anything survives the massive expansion of the "willing participant" they won't survive the powerful gravity the "willing participant" would now have. Keep in mind you are also ending the universe with a 5th level wizard. The process can be faster if done by multiple 5th level wizards or higher level wizards or both.

Warning- before the "willing participant" expands, I recommend traveling to if possible any other plane of existance. There won't be a material plane anymore or what's left of it will be crushed uterally. The "willing participant" won't survive (unless immune to damage for at least 1 minute) and you won't if they expand (of course unless you are immune to damage for at least 1 minute.)

Reward- congratulations you just killed everything's and ended the universe. Hopefully your DM realizes this, because that's enough experience to not only instantly level you to level 20 but also you could easily(if DM approved) obtain all of the boons from the DM Guide. Sadly loot is less likely considering anything not indestructible is likely to have been crushed.

[JackPhoenix]

9 simple steps to create a weapon to end the universe.
1. Get a fifth level wizard.
2. Obtain about 120,600gp of diamond dust and incense.
3. Have the wizard have the spells "Glyph of warding" and "enlarge/reduce".
4. Have the wizard cast "Glyph of warding" with the spell storing option.
5. Make the spell stores be "enlarge/reduse" set to enlarge mode.
6. Set the trigger to activate only after a special password is said with intent to activate the glyphs. (Make the trigger whatever you want, It works best if the activator/victim is willing)
7. Repeat the spell over the minimum period of 200 days to cast the spell up to 603 times. The first day you can cast of 6 times because proceeding days you can only regain spell slots and abilities from 1 long rest.
8. Once you have the spell cast on relatively the same spot, preferably outside, 603 times or more, activate them and send the willing participant to activate the glyphs.
9. Watch as the participant doubles in size 603 time becoming so large that they would be bigger than the observable universe, in fact they would be larger than the number of atoms in the universe if each was an observable universe. Reaching the entire size in only 6 seconds. Simply put you end the entirety of the universe.

Notes- whoever you use as the "willing participant" will die, unless they can survive literally touching every dangerous thing in the universe. There size in multiplied by 2^603, but their mass is multiplied by 8^603 so not only would they expand massively but soon after they would collapse into themselves. If anything survives the massive expansion of the "willing participant" they won't survive the powerful gravity the "willing participant" would now have. Keep in mind you are also ending the universe with a 5th level wizard. The process can be faster if done by multiple 5th level wizards or higher level wizards or both.

Warning- before the "willing participant" expands, I recommend traveling to if possible any other plane of existance. There won't be a material plane anymore or what's left of it will be crushed uterally. The "willing participant" won't survive (unless immune to damage for at least 1 minute) and you won't if they expand (of course unless you are immune to damage for at least 1 minute.)

Reward- congratulations you just killed everything's and ended the universe. Hopefully your DM realizes this, because that's enough experience to not only instantly level you to level 20 but also you could easily(if DM approved) obtain all of the boons from the DM Guide. Sadly loot is less likely considering anything not indestructible is likely to have been crushed.

Same spell cast multiple times doesn't stack. Congratulation, you've used pile of diamond dust and better part of a year to double someone's size the same way a single Enlarge would.

Edit: Whoops, necro thread.

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: No loophole will raise a thread from the dead.